I agree with SoS Blinken

[mcar]

https://www.threads.net/@aaron.rupar/post/C1FS7B_gCSt

Blinken: "What is striking to me is that even as we hear many countries urging the end to this conflict, which we would all like to see, I hear virtually no one saying, demanding of Hamas, that it stop hiding behind civilians, lay down its arms, that it surrender."

[The Magistrate]

1. Hear Hear, Sir

No surer, quicker, or more just way to end this.

[mcar]

9. Indeed

[PTL_Mancuso]

46. Uhhh.. maybe if Israel gave back all the stolen land? And brought back all those slaughtered in the Nakba and afterward?

Maybe that could end it????

History did not begin on October 7th.

Happy Winter Solstice!

[The Magistrate]

47. I Must Often Remind Myself Of The Morning Admonitions

"The willfully ignorant can't be taught. The stupid can't be reasoned with. The moral cretin can't be rescued."

[PTL_Mancuso]

49. Precisely So!

100 plus years of hammering Islamophobia into US minds has paid off rather neatly.

[Arazi]

53. This didn't start with Islamophobia

Try again

[Arazi]

52. Maybe after Europe gives back the lives and property to Jews

That ended up in Israel?

Or how about Yemen, KSA, Egypt, Jordan etc return the land and lives of the Jews they killed and expelled (who ended up in Israel?)

You’re right, history didn’t begin October 7 - it actually starts with Jewish persecution many millennia ago

[PTL_Mancuso]

54. It all depends upon how far back we wish to unwind the stack.

. . . even if we have to navigate back to the age of Noah and his dinosaurs!

In any event, I don't think the farmers and wives and children in the land of Palestine were deserving of the treatment that was visited upon them, mistreatment that has only increased over the years. I don't think they deserved to be ethnically cleansed and culturally obliterated by the US, European, and Russian industrial powers, who were at the root of so much of the genocide that was done in the past century, i.e. the Holocaust and many other "lesser" genocides (Holodomor, Armenia, African continent, etc.). Recall that the great industrialists and bankers were, for decades, happy to look the other way whilst the hatred and pogroms kept building (as did their personal fortunes). And many of these families remain in cosmically high positions of power today. Recall also that many high-level NAZI scientists and spies were imported to US, UK, Russia to continue to work their magic, products of which we see today.

Sacrificing Palestine and its people (who nobody really cared about) was just a cynical fake apology, with the accompanying massive propaganda campaigns, by the surviving, thriving industrialists and bankers to the victims of the Holocaust and other atrocities. A Plum. A stick poked into the eye of the Islamic world (so that eternal war with all its finances and weapons and death and hate and destruction of others) would be guaranteed).

It is all so Orwell's Boot Stamping on a Human Face – for Ever.

[Arazi]

55. Dude, there was a 2 state solution from the very beginning

In fact, Israelis were perfectly happy to live with the Arabs in the area. Even now 25% of Israelis are Arab “Palestinians”.

Those folks who lost their homes lost them in a war that they and their Arab neighbors started to try to (again) obliterate the Jews.

Your revisionist history is so bad. Going to go sit with The Magistrate and finish my coffee if you care to carry on (but please bring real history next time)

[PTL_Mancuso]

59. Oh Yes! Oh Yes! They were so very happy to live side-by-side with the nice, friendly folks

who destroyed village after village, farm after farm, child after child. Who appropriated whatever parts of PALESTINIAN culture they wanted from the natives and then flushed the rest down the memory toilet along with the natives.

Many here in the US obviously have overgorged on the propaganda they've been fed since birth. Too bad. I guess it (the engorgement) truly was unavoidable, wasn't it? 2 + 2 = 5 and all that jazz.

[Arazi]

61. The Arabs living there and their Arab neighbors attacked

They attacked Israel to kill off the Jews.

They attacked first.

They lost.

They literally fucked around and found out. Losing a war they started has consequences.

Rewriting history doesn’t fly here.

Welcome to DU

[PTL_Mancuso]

63. Oh my my! Such a nice fairy story!

Wait 'til the Canadians or Chinese come to invade your town to be your friends! LOL!

[PTL_Mancuso]

60. You make a FALSE accusation.

SHAME on YOU! Murderers and rapists and farm and village destroyers are the most horrific sinners. But, alas! Just b/c a country commits its rapes and murders and dismemberments via all the state-of-the-art taxpayer-funded US imports like drones, white phosphorous, tanks, artillery, massive bombs dropped on PALESTINIAN homes, schools, hospitals, refugee camps, etc, I don't hate them any less.

EVIL is EVIL, amigo. Wise up.

Learn how to read and not put words in people's mouths.

[TheKentuckian]

75. There is no stolen land to return.

That shit is a figment.

As is your absurd demand for the resurrection of Arabs killed in war in 1948.

You aren't restoring hundreds of thousands of displaced Jews nor the lives snuffed.

[LAS14]

2. Well stated!!!!!!

[tritsofme]

3. Their silence speaks volumes.

Thank you Secretary Blinken!

[Silent3]

4. I suspect that the lack of such demands on Hamas is that everyone knows they'd be wasting their breath...

...not that they think Hamas shouldn't do all of these things. Sure, maybe more people should publicly demand more from Hamas for symbolic value, but face it, it would be a purely performative act, preaching to the choir.

Israel isn't being much more responsive to criticism, but at least there, there's some hope.

[mcar]

14. Then why are these same people

hollering for a cease fire? If they know that Hamas won’t concede?

[Silent3]

16. Perhaps because they consider the horrible suffering in Gaza right now...

...worse than having to deal with Hamas by different means later?

[Captain Stern]

18. 'They' won't have to deal with Hamas later

Just like they don't have to deal with them now.

It's easy for people that don't live in Israel to demand a ceasefire on Israel's part when it's only Israelis that Hamas is going to continue killing

[Silent3]

19. It's more a problem of how Israel is going about it

There must be at least 10-20 times or more as many dead Palestinians than Israelis at this point, and a 1000-to-1 displacement and illness and starvation.

If not a cease fire, then a cease-not-being-so-indiscriminate-fire is needed.

[Oopsie Daisy]

43. It's not "indiscriminate". Hamas are the legitimate target *

* their decision to hide in and amongst (and beneath) civilian homes, hospitals, markets, schools is the war-crime. Hamas (and Hamas alone) make those decisions. They and they alone are the ones who put innocent children in harm's way.

Israel knows that Hamas must be destroyed. They are as evil. Hamas = Isis = Taliban. The strategic command centers must be destroyed. Is is THEY who do not care about innocent lives.

Hamas are butchers and rapists. Raping and gang-raping women and girls, sexually mutilating with knives and blades the vaginas of women and girls, raping women with the barrel of firearms and intentionally discharging the firearm while it's inside their vagina, shooting women in the head while raping them and raping the dead/dying corpses.

[Silent3]

62. Just because Hamas is deliberately putting civilians in danger...

...and just because they are "butchers and rapists", which I fully agree with, the four-year-old Palestinian kids having buildings collapse on them when Israel bombs indiscriminately don't deserve what happens to them.

International law does not accept the principle that if your enemy is spectacularly evil and hiding among civilians, then anything goes.

[Oopsie Daisy]

64. Actually, I never said that any of the innocent civilian victims "deserve" their fate, did I?

Again, blame Hamas for what is happening to the civilians. It will be THEIR choice how many innocent lives are ended in the process. They deliberately planned their 10/7 attack, they have broken every cease-fire agreement, they have refused and declined cease-fire offers, they have declined sincere and realistic two-state solutions offered by Israel... they are vicious and cruel. They are toxic and venomous snakes who cannot be trusted. They must be, and will be, destroyed.

[Silent3]

66. Saying "Hamas is to blame", even though quite true...

...is not a free pas for Israel to do ANYTHING it feels like, with total and complete disregard for innocent civilians.

[Tarheel_Dem]

67. Well, why don't you tell Hamas to stop hiding & shielding themselves among these "innocent civilians"?

[Silent3]

69. That wouldn't do any good, but that doesn't excuse an "anything goes" policy for Israel

No matter how much Hamas is to blame, there's no magical ethical rule (or principle of international law) that frees up Israel or anyone else to do ANYTHING to fight Hamas.

[Tarheel_Dem]

71. If your very existence is being threatened, then "ANYTHING" & "EVERYTHING" may be required to eliminate the threat. nt

[Silent3]

80. The key word in your response is "may"

While the rhetoric of Hamas is a desire to "wipe Israel from the face of the Earth", they don't at all have the power to do that.

Which is not to say what Hamas can do isn't horrendous enough to warrant fighting back hard, but if you think "anything and everything" is justified, you'd better damned well be able to prove, not just guess, that a more humane and targeted response wouldn't have been enough.

[Sal_NV]

76. Would you have said the same thing to the WWII allies against the Axis powers?

This is Israel's fight for its very existence against a terrorists org. that has vowed to do whatever it takes to wipe the State of Israel off the map and murder each and every Jew from the ME and the world.

[Silent3]

81. Yes, I would have said the same thing to the WWII allies

While the Allied powers weren't always good about following the rules of war they came up with, they took the trouble to have rules and to try to stick with them. They agreed there were limits. Our fight was not any "anything goes" fight, and we still won.

Even the horror of the atomic bombs had to be justified by the lives likely saved by ending the war sooner. I know that's controversial, but at least the people making the decisions did indeed think they needed to have some sort of justification.

[Sal_NV]

82. Thanks for being honest, I disagree, but thanks. nt

[mcar]

83. Hamas gets a pass then?

They're evil so we can't hold them to account. But Israel...

What is the answer?

[Oopsie Daisy]

68. Israel's mission is clear and they will do, must do, whatever it takes to destroy Hamas.

If/when innocent civilians are killed as a result, then the blame continues to lay exclusively with Hamas. War is a tragic thing. But this is, and always will be, the fault and responsibility of Hamas. They, and only they, are responsible for, and the cause of, the unnecessary deaths. Israel is doing the right thing. Hamas is doing the wrong thing. It is Hamas who has a "total and complete disregard for innocent civilians." Why hold Israel responsible for the actions of Hamas?

No, don't answer. I already know. I was just making a point.

[Silent3]

70. Blame doesn't work that way

No matter how evil Hamas is, no matter how much they are to blame for how hard it is to fight without harming civilians, in no way does that magically absolve Israel of ALL responsibility for the results of its actions. Neither basic ethics nor international law work that way.

[Oopsie Daisy]

72. Israel does not need absolution.

Israel is destroying legitimate strategic targets. It's truly tragic that Hamas is putting innocent civilians in harm's way. That's not Israel's fault. Stop trying to blame Israel for the cowardice of Hamas. Please. Israel has a right to defend itself.

[Silent3]

74. I'm not blaming Israel for anything Hamas has done.

You still don't get the basic, simple principle that nothing one person or group does ever, ever, gives another person or group an absolute, unquestionable free pass on how they deal with it.

Want to go for another round of repeating, "Israel has a right to defend itself", as if I don't know that and haven't agreed to that?

You want to go for another round of saying I'm blaming Israel for things Hamas has done, even when I'm clearly not doing that?

[Oopsie Daisy]

84. oh, I understand what you're saying. I simply disagree.

Israel will do whatever it takes to defeat Hamas, and I support and agree with that. Any harm that comes to innocent civilians will be the fault of Hamas, not of Israel. What is not clear about that? Your turn.

[Sal_NV]

77. I applaud you.

[mcar]

20. I don't understand

People are hollering for a ceasefire now and blaming Israel for not acceding to a ceasefire, even though Israel has agreed to a previous ceasefire so that 100+ hostages could be released and aid could get delivered.

That ceasefire ended when Hamas refused to release anymore female hostages.

Hamas violated the original ceasefire on Oct. 7, with devastating effects.

Are you suggesting that Israel should just uncondtionally stop and "deal with Hamas by different means later?" So, hey, you butchered 1200 innocent people, raped and murdered hundreds more, but no harm, no foul?

[Silent3]

30. No, it's just that Israel has already killed 10-20 times more Palestinians than Israelis...

...who died on Oct. 7. When does it stop?

[TheKentuckian]

35. When there is no capacity for a repeat

Your plan would be to tit for tat kill a similar number of people and sit back and wait for the next marauding murder and rape gang to come through and then just going in some insane circle.

The enemy doesn't even give a shit about its people, tit for tat isn't even shoddy, fingers crosed level deterrence much less ending the threat.

The Israeli government like all governments has a fundamental duty to defend not just randomly avenge its citizens in some silly ass numbers game.

It is unfortunate that Hamas is deeply embedded into their own population and has mixed all military and civilian infrastructure to the point of using hospitals as bases but no nation is just going to suck it up.

No, not even for the children.

Especially our nation so please stop fronting.

[Silent3]

37. Fronting?

Fronting for what?

I think Israel, no matter its right to defend itself, which I do not dispute, is being way, way to careless about about what we euphemistically call "collateral damage". Hell, they were so careless they killed three of their people who were trying to escape Gaza, unarmed people carrying a white flag whom they shouldn't have shot under the circumstances even if they were Palestinians.

That Hamas hides among civilians is not enough of an excuse for this behavior.

I can't have that opinion without "fronting" for someone or something?

[sheshe2]

33. Most of these protests are being funded.

It is not about Hamas/Israel per se, it is about creating division. Guess who is being blamed for it, President Biden and Israel, never Hamas and there is a reason for that.

I thank SOS Blinken and President Biden for their tireless work trying to make things right.

Just my opinion.

[Oopsie Daisy]

44. Sad to see that so many of "our own" are falling for it *

* and doing their level best to harm and diminish Democrats and President Biden and to lay blame on our party and our elected leaders. It's clear to see what's going on.

[Mad_Machine76]

5. Isn't that sort of implied by now?

Hamas isn't a rational actor and no amount of pleading or public statements are going to change their minds. Also, no sane person supports Hamas or their actions and nobody's calling for Israel to stop attacking Hamas. What people I know are wanting is for Israel to stop indiscriminately and collectively attacking and killing Palestinian civilians and focusing on more precise operations that target Hamas specifically until the hostages are safe and they are neutralized. BTW some of this discussion reminds of Nancy Mace's (?) call a few weeks ago for women's group to speak up about Hamas' rape and torturing of women, trying to sound all high ground about women's rights and implying that the "silence" of women's groups suggest some kind of implicit support for Hamas or neglect of women.

[The Magistrate]

6. Explicit Beats Implied By Many Miles

So long as Hamas does hide among non-combatants, engaging them without harm to the latter is not possible. People calling for an extended cease-fire mostly do know this, and that what they are really calling for is a backdoor by which Hamas may evade the consequences of what it has done: a spree of sadistic murder planned for any months. Explicit denunciation of Hamas as a genocidal body, as criminal combatants subject to military justice on capture, would go some ways to strip this fig leaf from the many who will not admit, or do not recognize, who and what their pleas actually are on behalf of.

[onecaliberal]

7. If they think accusing people who want a cease fire of supporting Hamas is helpful they are tone deaf.

Did we just tell Bin Laden to behave, or Saddam? Ffs.

[mcar]

21. Right?

I don't understand any of this. It appears that some are advocating just letting Hamas go with a tsk, tsk, don't do this again or you'll be sorry.

[lapucelle]

12. The silence of both the UN and feminist groups concerning Hamas rapes speaks volumes.

There is no "implying" or "suggesting" about it. The message is loud and clear.

-------------------------------

How feminists have failed Israeli victims of sexual violence

The skepticism that met Israeli women’s claims perpetuates traditions of dehumanizing Jews.

Many feminist organizations rushed to express support for the Palestinian cause while eliding the plight of Israeli victims. The organization UN Women issued a four-page report last month exclusively addressing the impact of the war on women and girls in Gaza but made only a brief condemnation of the Oct. 7 attack that made no mention of the sexual violence that had been reported. A group of prominent scholars circulated a letter under the title “Feminists for a Free Palestine,” without explicitly condemning the sexual violence against Israeli women.

College campus groups have furnished other examples, such as the women’s students’ groups at Harvard that signed on to a letter holding Israel entirely responsible for the Oct. 7 attacks or the (now-former) director of the University of Alberta’s Sexual Assault Center’s signing on to a letter doubting the veracity of accounts of Israeli rape survivors. Even the office on my own campus that is devoted to helping students “lead social-justice centered lives” issued thousands of words in solidarity with the Palestinians and did not once acknowledge the sexual violence (or murder or abduction) perpetrated by Hamas. And then there are the familiar conversations like those that Miriam Schler, the executive director of a Tel Aviv crisis center, reports having with friends who style themselves “champions of human rights, feminism, and social justice” but who “have been bending over backwards to justify atrocities and rationalize rape.”

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/israel-women-hamas-rape-rcna126047

=======================================

After 8 weeks, UN Women condemns Hamas's sexual violence on Oct.7

When asked about the motivation behind the agency's silence on the issue, its deputy director Sarah Hendriks told CNN that the UN Women was "deeply alarmed at the disturbing reports of gender-based and sexual violence on October 7."

She also mentioned that the group supports “impartial, independent investigation." The note came after the interviewer drew attention to the "mounting evidence" produced by Israeli investigations.

UN Women has been accused of holding double standard regarding Israel. Over the past two months, hashtag #MeToo_UNless_UR_A_Jew has gained popularity online, while Jewish women's rights activists have called on the UN agency to speak out against the crimes against women carried out on October 7.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1701510545-8-weeks-after-the-attack-un-women-condemns-hamas-s-sexual-violence-on-oct-7

===========================================

Hamas war on Israeli women: World silent on Oct. 7 mass sexual assault

SOCIAL WELFARE AFFAIRS: While Israel gathers evidence of Hamas's mass sexual assault of women on October 7, the world remains silent.

The battle to raise public awareness of the awful crimes committed by Hamas terrorists against Israeli women is also being fought on another front – that of words.

One woman who claimed a significant role in the campaign to influence and shape public policy last week is Israeli journalist Rotem Izak, who has been covering cultural affairs as well as welfare and women’s issues for a variety of Hebrew-language outlets for many years.

snip-----------------------------

“The silence of women’s organizations worldwide regarding October 7 is political, and that’s why it is so outrageous and painful,” Izak writes. “Moreover, it is embarrassing. It shames feminism, academia, and the entire Western world because... when progressive organizations choose to turn women’s erasure into an act that needs to be examined in a broader political context, the message is that still, despite everything, not all women are equal.”

[mcar]

22. I have lost so much respect for the UN Womens group

and other women's groups internationally. What happened to these women is horrific. The reluctance of these groups to speak out is vomit-inducing.

[betsuni]

87. +1

[lapucelle]

29. You think rape survivor Nancy Mace "was trying to sound all high ground"

when she called out the silence of the world when it came to the rape of Israeli women?

“I can’t think of anything more shameful to see these women’s groups, to see women on the left, women in the House, my colleagues on the left who refuse to say what this is, which is shameful. It’s disgusting. It’s barbaric,” Mace said. “And we ought to be condemning it from every corner of our country. Every woman should be condemning this. And I think it’s shameful.”

snip========================

“Where are the women? Where are the women’s groups who professed to be fighting for women around the world who’ve been dead silent on this issue?” Mace said. “And I look at my colleagues in the House, where are they? Representative Jayapal — her excuses last week.”

Mace, who has frequently been outspoken as a victim of rape herself, invoked her own experience in expressing grief over the violence Israeli women suffered.

“I mean, we know now — we know now that Hamas in their battle plan was to go in and systematically rape, mutilate, and murder these Israeli women,” she said. “And I’m — I’m a survivor of rape, but the difference is that I survived. But many of these Israeli women didn’t, and they were mutilated, and murdered while it was happening.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4352482-mace-blasts-house-democrats-for-not-speaking-out-on-hamas-sexual-violence/

[TheKentuckian]

36. No, not in the least. The implication is a wink and a nod

at Hamas and piling on hard on who they attacked.

[JI7]

8. That's becsuse most of them support Hamas

[obamanut2012]

10. Yo are equating folks who want a ceasefire/shelling Gaza to end with Hamas supporters

Why in the world would you think that?

I sure as fuck am not a Hamas supporter.

[Cha]

32. HAMAS said NO to Ceasefire that Israel wanted for a Humanitarian pause..

Hamas kills bid to revive ceasefire deal, hostage release -WSJ

"Hamas's stance remains: they don't have a desire for humanitarian pauses. Hamas wants a complete end to the Israeli war on Gaza," a Palestinian official said[/b].

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218542611#top

[Sky Jewels]

13. Lol

What a pantload.

[Sympthsical]

17. I am not a supporter of apple trees

Have you ever dealt with them? Every morning for three months out of the year, I'm in the yard picking that fruit pollution up. Apple trees are awful.

Now, sure, sometimes I twirl around casting apple seeds carelessly about the yard. But if those apple seeds cause new growth, that does not mean I support apple trees. They're awful, and I hate them.

And if I turn the sprinkler on after throwing seeds around, that does not mean I am pro-apple tree growth. I am simply watering the grass. Any implication I am supportive of apple trees is deeply unfair. My adjacency to conditions supportive of apples is something you're putting on me.

Why do people keep insisting I am pro-apple? It is enraging. It is offensive. My scattering of seeds and watering has nothing to do with further apple tree growth, and anyone who points that out is victimizing me.

But seriously. That's about how I see the "say nothing of Hamas, highlight every bad Israel snippet I can find, never speak up about antisemitism, and how dare you for noticing" people. It's like a game of peekaboo, where one party hasn't figured out that object permanence is a thing. You know we can still see you, right?

[mcar]

23. This is such a good analogy

Thank you, Sympthiscal.

[yardwork]

51. "Where one party hasn't figured out object permanence..."

A developmental milestone usually reached at around 18 months.

Perfect analogy.

[betsuni]

86. +1

[yardwork]

50. A number of posters seem to have missed that Blinken said "countries."

It's interesting to see the knee jerk defensive reactions of some posters who can't be bothered to read what Blinken actually said.

And I agree with you. Most countries in the UN have been opposed to Israel from the beginning. They have few or no Jewish people among their populations. There are many majority Muslim nations that oppose Israel and support HAMAS and other terrorist organizations.

That's why Blinken said what he did.

[FakeNoose]

11. Well it is being said ... somewhere ....

... however the American media will never report it. And that's why we aren't hearing it here in the US.

Bravo, Anthony Blinken!

[brer cat]

15. I agree with Sec. Blinken.

[SYFROYH]

24. Is Blinkin calling out Joe Biden? ETA: ANSWER: No

My google-fu did not find any articles when I searched for Hamas, Biden, Surrender.

But then again my google skills are weak.

ETA: Thank to those who showed me where Biden did call for Hamas' surrender.

[mcar]

25. Kinda don't think so

[lapucelle]

27. Indeed they are.

US seeks surrender of Hamas leadership

The Biden administration is publicly pressing the Palestinian militant group Hamas to surrender the masterminds behind its October 7 terrorist attack on southern Israel in what appears to be a coordinated attempt to split Hamas’ and the Palestinian leadership, which are scattered across the Gaza Strip and West Bank and regional countries such as Qatar, Turkey and Lebanon.

“If Hamas wanted to protect the people of Gaza, it could release the hostages, surrender the leaders and those responsible for October 7,” the White House’s point man on the Middle East, Brett McGurk, told a gathering of Arab leaders and diplomats in Bahrain on Saturday.

President Joe Biden stressed the same point in an opinion piece published Sunday in the Washington Post on the Ukraine and Mideast wars. “If Hamas cared at all for Palestinian lives, it would release all the hostages, give up arms, and surrender the leaders and those responsible for Oct. 7,” he wrote.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Opinion
Joe Biden: The U.S. won’t back down from the challenge of Putin and Hamas
By Joe Biden

From the very beginning, my administration has called for respecting international humanitarian law, minimizing the loss of innocent lives and prioritizing the protection of civilians. Following Hamas’s attack on Israel, aid to Gaza was cut off, and food, water and medicine reserves dwindled rapidly. As part of my travel to Israel, I worked closely with the leaders of Israel and Egypt to reach an agreement to restart the delivery of essential humanitarian assistance to Gazans. Within days, trucks with supplies again began to cross the border. Today, nearly 100 aid trucks enter Gaza from Egypt each day, and we continue working to increase the flow of assistance manyfold. I’ve also advocated for humanitarian pauses in the conflict to permit civilians to depart areas of active fighting and to help ensure that aid reaches those in need. Israel took the additional step to create two humanitarian corridors and implement daily four-hour pauses in the fighting in northern Gaza to allow Palestinian civilians to flee to safer areas in the south.

This stands in stark opposition to Hamas’s terrorist strategy: hide among Palestinian civilians. Use children and innocents as human shields. Position terrorist tunnels beneath hospitals, schools, mosques and residential buildings. Maximize the death and suffering of innocent people — Israeli and Palestinian. If Hamas cared at all for Palestinian lives, it would release all the hostages, give up arms, and surrender the leaders and those responsible for Oct. 7.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/18/joe-biden-gaza-hamas-putin/

[Skittles]

26. what part of ending this conflict

doesn't include the actions of HAMAS - this is just more of this us vs them bullshit

[mcar]

28. What part of "Hamas must surrender" is us v them bullshit?

Hamas created this war. Hamas is a terrorist organization. For peace, they must surrender, release the hostages and lay down their weapons.

[Skittles]

39. you didn't answer the question

DONE here

[mcar]

48. 'K

[Cha]

65. Oooops

Mahalo, mcar!

[Cha]

31. Yeah, & it's HAMAS Who Won't agree to a Ceasefire for Humanitarian pauses right NOW

Hamas kills bid to revive ceasefire deal, hostage release -WSJ

"Hamas's stance remains: they don't have a desire for humanitarian pauses. Hamas wants a complete end to the Israeli war on Gaza," a Palestinian official said[/b].

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218542611#top

[Think. Again.]

34. Nah, I don't want hamas to surrender...

...I want hamas obliterated forever.

I DON'T want any more Israeli or Palestinian civilians harmed or killed.

[Sal_NV]

79. That I can agree to, as I'm sure that all of DU wants. nt

[Kennah]

38. I feel it's akin to telling Japan and Germany in early 1942 to surrender

They didn't see a loss in their future, and neither does Hamas

[Oopsie Daisy]

45. Interesting comparison. They do not see a loss, or they simply do not care.

They will eventually discover the truth. Sooner rather than later. The Hamas terrorists, butchers and rapists will be destroyed, I have no doubts of that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. It's confusing as hell. It's like there's global amnesia as to how this whole thing started. The atrocities of 10/7...

seem to be but a distant memory for the media, the UN & damn near all the commentators on my teevee machine. If Hamas were to "lay down its arms", and release the hostages, the military operation should come to an immediate conclusion. Until then, Israel still has the right to defend itself from the murderous assholes who broke the ceasefire on Oct 7th, and committed heinous crimes against innocent women & children.

F**k Hamas, and all its apologists and enablers.

[SunSeeker]

41. K & R

[LetMyPeopleVote]

42. I agree with Sec. Blinken

[OilemFirchen]

56. I agree as well.

It's useful to acknowledge that antisemitism is essentially de facto world-wide. It's a given in the Middle East, explicit in Eastern Europe and a poorly-hidden secret in Western Europe and the rest of the industrialized nations.

Expecting leaders of any country beyond Israel and the U.S. to defend Jews is a fools errand. This, and nothing more, is what's driving the deplorable inaction Blinken is lamenting.

[revmclaren]

58. I also agree with SoS Blinken.

He has been right in his view of this crisis
while others wallow in Hamas propaganda.

The responses here are interesting but troubling.

History will judge many for their views as was the case in 2016.

[betsuni]

73. K&R

[lapucelle]

78. Kick.