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Celerity

(44,287 posts)
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 09:04 PM Dec 2023

Condition U.S. Aid to Israel on a Modicum of Israeli Realism



https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2023-12-14-condition-us-aid-israel-netanyahu/



For more than 30 years, the official policy of the American government (with some deviation during the Trump presidency) has been to support and promote a two-state solution to the problem of Israel-Palestine. The Oslo Accords, which established a process by which a viable and independent Palestinian state could be established alongside Israel, was one of the genuine achievements of Bill Clinton’s presidency. But for a right-wing Israeli’s assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, who championed the accords, they might have led to something like a durable peace or at least a modus vivendi in that vexed land.

Neither the Israeli far right nor the Palestinian extremists ever accepted Oslo; each favors a religiously homogenous regime that runs from the river to the sea. The Israeli far right now dominates Israel’s government, and that government’s leader, Bibi Netanyahu, is now more explicit than he’s ever been that no Palestinian state will ever be established. Down in the polls—very down in the polls—after having Hamas’s October 7 murder raid occur on his watch and after refusing to accept any responsibility for having had that happen, Bibi plainly hopes his extreme anti-Palestinian posture will at least win him back the support of the Israeli right. As Israeli columnist Nahum Barnea noted in the centrist newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, “He failed as Mr. Security and he failed as Mr. America. Maybe he’ll succeed as Mr. Never Palestine.”

Which raises a question for the Biden administration and the United States more generally: Why should we support Israel so long as its policy is fundamentally at odds with ours, and with our general support for legitimate national aspirations? Why should we continue to give it aid? Why should we continue to veto United Nations resolutions premised on promoting two-state solutions?

I don’t regard such a shift in policy as anti-Israel; I regard it as a necessary form of tough love. Plainly, Israel’s policy of opposing a Palestinian state has not worked, as numerous acts of terrorism, two intifadas, and the October 7 raid have made all too bloodily clear. There’s no reason whatever to believe that it will work going forward. To the contrary, were Israel to accept a viable Palestine on the West Bank, it’s clear that its leading Arab neighbors, most particularly Saudi Arabia, would normalize relations with it, and the global “Kick Me” sign that Israel has affixed to its butt could be removed. (Some kicks would surely continue, due partly to the endurance of antisemitism, but they’d be fewer in number.) Such an accord would require Israel to relinquish a number of its West Bank settlements, but the majority of Israelis (those who live within the nation’s Green Line accepted borders), having experienced the rule of the settler and ultra-Orthodox extremists in Bibi’s Cabinet, don’t appear all that keen on forfeiting their lives and livelihoods to the demands of those zealots.

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CincyDem

(6,456 posts)
1. It takes two states to have a two state solution...anyone remember what happened to the previous proposals?
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 09:17 PM
Dec 2023

Oh yeah - rejected by the PLO and Hamas because they would have to actually recognize Israel as part of the deal.

It’s difficult to articulate the depth to which Hamas (and the PLO before them) is generationally dedicated to their Let’s Kill Jews mantra…so much so they’ve rejected at least two virtually complete agreements that would have giving them everything they asked…except the eradication of Jews.

To be clear, Bibi is not without fault and needs to be voted out (and I suspect it’ll be sooner vs. later). And at the same time, to put the 2-state solution issue solely at Israel’s feet is and uninformed and slanted view of the history. Disappointing and not unexpected since the history doesn’t support their story line. Certainly true to say Bibi opposes a 2-state solution and let’s not pretend that Hamas is sitting by their phone waiting for the right 2-state solution.

In fact, it might be fair to say that Hamas is more opposed to a 2-state solution than Bibi given the depth of compromises each would have to make to get there.

Celerity

(44,287 posts)
2. Palestinian acceptance of a 2-state solution has occurred at times:
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 09:49 PM
Dec 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution

PLO acceptance of a two-state solution

The first indication that the PLO would be willing to accept a two-state solution, on at least an interim basis, was articulated by Said Hammami in the mid-1970s.

Security Council resolutions dating back to June 1976 supporting the two-state solution based on the pre-1967 lines were vetoed by the United States, which supports a two-state solution but argued that the borders must be negotiated directly by the parties.

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988, which referenced the UN Partition Plan of 1947 and "UN resolutions since 1947" in general, was interpreted as an indirect recognition of the State of Israel, and support for a two-state solution. The Partition Plan was invoked to provide legitimacy to Palestinian statehood. Subsequent clarifications were taken to amount to the first explicit Palestinian recognition of Israel.

The 2017 Hamas charter presented the Palestinian state being based on the 1967 borders. The text says "Hamas considers the establishment of a Palestinian state, sovereign and complete, on the basis of the June 4, 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital and the provision for all the refugees to return to their homeland." This is in contrast to Hamas' 1988 charter, which previously called for a Palestinian state on all of Mandatory Palestine. Nevertheless, even in the 2017 charter, Hamas did not recognize Israel.

Beastly Boy

(9,770 posts)
3. "Shit happens at times"
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 10:27 PM
Dec 2023

A willingness to accept a two-state solution is as far from accepting a two state solution as my willingness to accept a Nobel Prize is from me actually accepting a Nobel prize.

Celerity

(44,287 posts)
4. spin all you want, but............
Thu Dec 14, 2023, 11:01 PM
Dec 2023

There are 3 options

1. A one state solution with equal rights for all. (Israel will never accept that)

2. A two state solution.

3. Israel refuses both and continues down with the 'slow and fast' combo attempts at complete ethnic cleansing, which will also, by the very nature of the endeavour include actual very substantial genocidal elements (beyond what we are seeing now) in Gaza and eventually in the West Bank. That path will eventually result in even the US pulling support and will end in a ruinous (for all involved) regional (and perhaps beyond) full-on war.


Biden is not going to allow unconditional support for Israel NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO to become a suicide pact for American democracy.

Beastly Boy

(9,770 posts)
6. None of your post addresses your far fetched claim that
Fri Dec 15, 2023, 10:05 AM
Dec 2023

"Palestinian acceptance of a 2-state solution has occurred at times".

So I will keep spinning until you stop deflecting.

CincyDem

(6,456 posts)
5. I think the guy who floated the 2-state solution from the PLO was assassinated shortly after...
Fri Dec 15, 2023, 12:43 AM
Dec 2023

…with credit for it given to Fatah’s founder Abu Nidal. At the time Fatah was the violent break-away faction of the PLO. I don’t doubt Hammami, acting as a journalist and Arafat’s special envoy at the time in London, indicated PLO would entertain a 2-state solution. His swift demise, however, implies he (nor the PLO) could actually deliver the Palestinian people.

Security Council resolutions are only slightly more binding on the parties involved as DU posts so probably not an indication that the Palestinians were signed up to agree…notwithstanding the U.S. veto for the right reasons.

“…interpreted as an indirect recognition of the state of Israel…”. I don’t doubt it was interpreted that way by some who want to see it as do and what’s great about it is that it leave the PLO with a great exit strategy because they didn’t actually say it.

And the 2017 charter…the last line of the post pretty much says it all.

I’m sure that over the past 75 years there have been many Palestinians who have advocated for, called for and maybe even implied commitment to a 2-state solution. Unfortunately, those folks had no standing to make or ability to deliver on the overtures.

Net, Israel needs a second state to agree to what would be the third serious 2-state negotiation.

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