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mopinko

(69,565 posts)
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:28 AM Nov 2023

joe biden is not the king of america

let alone the king of israel. stop acting like all he has to do is issue a decree and the middle east is at peace.

and dont get me started w idiots protesting the dnc. ffs. they dont make foreign policy.

can we PULEEEZE keep it real.

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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joe biden is not the king of america (Original Post) mopinko Nov 2023 OP
The protestors at the DNC RainWalker Nov 2023 #1
80% of ppl r protesting the wrong ppl. mopinko Nov 2023 #2
I mostly agree RainWalker Nov 2023 #5
GOP does seem to get a pass on this don't they? Evolve Dammit Nov 2023 #9
Yes they sure do RainWalker Nov 2023 #18
Yep. Protesting the GOP would kill multiple birds in a single swoop. jaxexpat Nov 2023 #12
I don't think it puts progressives RainWalker Nov 2023 #19
well, dsa has completely stepped in it. mopinko Nov 2023 #29
If 80% of voying democrats are vocally supporting a POV which demands Biden push a ....... jaxexpat Nov 2023 #40
thank u for exactly getting my point. mopinko Nov 2023 #48
A friend and I were having lunch and the Hamas / Israel war came up lapfog_1 Nov 2023 #54
The U.S. used to be looked upon as a world leader, and rightfully so! PTL_Mancuso Nov 2023 #6
So what. The DNC doesn't make foreign policy. yardwork Nov 2023 #20
No one is claiming he is king but make no mistake, Biden has influence. Autumn Nov 2023 #3
Influence over Hamas? mzmolly Nov 2023 #24
Marching hasn't accomplished anything in close to half a century ExWhoDoesntCare Nov 2023 #44
I disagree. mzmolly Nov 2023 #46
There are different kinds of protests. yardwork Nov 2023 #49
We could stop our UN veto of ceasefire. Basic LA Nov 2023 #4
The UN vote has no binding power. TwilightZone Nov 2023 #10
"We" Vetoed a UN ceasefire resolution. Basic LA Nov 2023 #36
ya know, it's not just that israel has a RIGHT to defend itself, it has a DUTY to. mopinko Nov 2023 #39
I think RW agents of chaos stumbled upon their formula for success. If we allow it. EYESORE 9001 Nov 2023 #7
you have to wonder mopinko Nov 2023 #8
Almost seems like it might have been planned... yardwork Nov 2023 #22
i'd personally like to know how many ppl's job it is a faux snooze to hunt down shit like this. mopinko Nov 2023 #31
Joe Biden controls gas prices and inflation IronLionZion Nov 2023 #11
Agreed relayerbob Nov 2023 #13
There's all sorts of words and actions he could take on Gaza. David__77 Nov 2023 #14
none of which lead to him solving this over night. mopinko Nov 2023 #26
I agree it wouldn't solve things overnight. David__77 Nov 2023 #28
This misperception abounds in other topics, too Random Boomer Nov 2023 #15
seems like all it takes is a little streak of stupid, and there's always someone waiting to pound the wedge. mopinko Nov 2023 #16
Bingo. yardwork Nov 2023 #23
Yes, the U.S. and its president are definitely just a tiny baby in the geopolitical reality of the Middle East. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2023 #17
not saying he's powerless, and imho mopinko Nov 2023 #25
There's a chance we could lose reelection over this IronLionZion Nov 2023 #21
That's why I'm so annoyed with the knee jerk performative "left" right now. yardwork Nov 2023 #50
Liberals are like that. Diverse opinions and perspectives IronLionZion Nov 2023 #51
I know but it's exhausting. yardwork Nov 2023 #53
The last guy who thought he was king is on trial now... BlueIdaho Nov 2023 #27
Kings can't stop wars by decree, either. However, in the case of Biden: NCIndie Nov 2023 #30
We need to stop giving voters a pass Paidon Nov 2023 #32
BINGO! inthewind21 Nov 2023 #34
K&R onecaliberal Nov 2023 #33
This is real. Snackshack Nov 2023 #35
No, Biden is not a king, but he is one of the most powerful men in the world. Chainfire Nov 2023 #37
i didnt. he has power, he has used it wisely and well, imho. mopinko Nov 2023 #38
K&R betsuni Nov 2023 #41
This conflict is Biden's albatross. Oneironaut Nov 2023 #42
who's doing that? no one is ignoring anything. mopinko Nov 2023 #43
Oh I agree he's handling it well. Oneironaut Nov 2023 #47
The fact that he's getting it from both sides makes me think he's doing it fairly IronLionZion Nov 2023 #52
K&R spanone Nov 2023 #45
 

RainWalker

(605 posts)
1. The protestors at the DNC
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:41 AM
Nov 2023

are a different issue altogether. The people are protesting because a massive majority of Democratic voters, 80%, want a ceasefire.

The U.S. should call for a ceasefire and a de-escalation of violence in Gaza. The U.S. should leverage its close diplomatic relationship with Israel to prevent further violence and civilian deaths.

This includes 80% of Democrats, 57% of Independents, and 56% of Republicans. [link:https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/10/19/voters-agree-the-us-should-call-for-a-ceasefire-and-de-escalation-of-violence-in-gaza|]


That number isn't reflected with members of Congress and therefore people are protesting. Right now there's 40 members of Congress calling for a ceasefire. That number is slowly growing however.

Forty members of Congress are now calling for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, with more than a dozen adding their support in recent days. [link:https://www.tpr.org/news/2023-11-19/support-for-israel-hamas-ceasefire-grows-across-the-us-and-in-congress-as-gaza-death-toll-surpasses-12-000|

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
2. 80% of ppl r protesting the wrong ppl.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:53 AM
Nov 2023

i take it all w a grain of salt, cuz war is bad. death is bad. hate is bad.
it’s the part where they think it’s in the u.s.’s power to flip a switch and it all goes away.
that’s not how any of this works.

 

RainWalker

(605 posts)
5. I mostly agree
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:16 AM
Nov 2023

Your comments about war and death ring loudly but I disagree with your thoughts on protests. I do think they should be protesting at the RNC as well but given Republicans hate filled toxicity towards everyone including Muslims, I don't know what sort of impact it would have. I do think though it would definitely amplify that Republicans positioning on this is unacceptable and even a majority of GOP voters want a ceasefire, despite it being ever so slightly at a +6.

jaxexpat

(6,562 posts)
12. Yep. Protesting the GOP would kill multiple birds in a single swoop.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:05 AM
Nov 2023

No, I don't hate birds, but the Nazis would not respond well to protests against any war. Their response would help to expose their ugliness, making people recall who supports wars out of hand, regardless of justification. As it stands, the protests put the Progressive movement in a bad light, and in jeopardyfor 2024.

 

RainWalker

(605 posts)
19. I don't think it puts progressives
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:40 AM
Nov 2023

in a bad light at all especially since 80% of Dem voters share the same opinion about a ceasefire. Quite the opposite actually.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
29. well, dsa has completely stepped in it.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:57 AM
Nov 2023

their protests seem completely performative, and they’re getting slammed for it u now where.

there some things u bring hammer and tongs to protest, and there’s some that r best solemn and silent.
wisdom is knowing which is which, and that seems in short supply.

jaxexpat

(6,562 posts)
40. If 80% of voying democrats are vocally supporting a POV which demands Biden push a .......
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 04:39 PM
Nov 2023

cease fire onto a nation with which most Americans sentiments directly align, the 2024 election is jeopardized by the inevitable proliferation of mixed messages. Joe will do the right thing in so far as he is able.

Every Democratic voice which shouts that their leader must do a miracle immediately helps no one except the enemies of the one who is doing his best to create a space for peace. Because the gods of war are mostly deaf to the pleas of the vanquished. Peace comes incrementally. Every death, every horror brings the peace a bit closer. It's not right, it's totally insane, but war is like that.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
48. thank u for exactly getting my point.
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 08:29 AM
Nov 2023

the more we demand a miracle he doesnt have to power to perform, the weaker WE make him look.

lapfog_1

(29,057 posts)
54. A friend and I were having lunch and the Hamas / Israel war came up
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 09:43 AM
Nov 2023

and I stated that likely 100,000 people will die before there is "peace". And I put "peace" in quotes because the cycle of violence will continue until there can be some sort of unity, either in 2 states, 3 states, or even 1 state solution to the problem of religious and political conflict.

That's not 100,000 people in Gaza... it is a total amount of death and destruction that must be suffered on both sides until a realization takes hold that war will not solve the underlying problem. The Proxima cause, Hamas, is another issue. They must be killed or put in prison... all of them.

 

PTL_Mancuso

(276 posts)
6. The U.S. used to be looked upon as a world leader, and rightfully so!
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:24 AM
Nov 2023

But billionaires pushing Reagan-W.Bush-Palin-Trump have sullied our good name. And, Yes, Biden has made solid moves to restore some respectability to the U.S. and could and should absolutely speak out sternly and say that U.S. Citizens DEMAND a cease fire and an end to the mindless genocide and land grabbing. But, he speaks too softly and apparently carries no big stick. As in so many other problems, he, just like all our pols is hamstrung, with bindings to controllers that we cannot see.

I'm sure y'all remember this golden oldie from nine years ago: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy -- It ain't the People's Voices that are heard in DC or other political centers in the U.S.! Citizens United and other associated rulings have ensured that our voices will never be heard.

The DNC only puts up compromised candidates and True Democrats™ know this and feel powerless.

yardwork

(61,204 posts)
20. So what. The DNC doesn't make foreign policy.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:40 AM
Nov 2023

The DNC's job is to get out the vote. And even if they did make foreign policy, or would he pretty dumb to base decisions on polls.

Autumn

(44,596 posts)
3. No one is claiming he is king but make no mistake, Biden has influence.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:57 AM
Nov 2023

As for protesting how the hell else do they get the eyes and ears of politicians? They can't compete with the donors.

mzmolly

(50,870 posts)
24. Influence over Hamas?
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:44 AM
Nov 2023

What he advocates for behind closed doors, is something we don't know.

The protestors are getting attention, but it's not the kind of attention they should seek. March for gawd sakes.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
44. Marching hasn't accomplished anything in close to half a century
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:41 PM
Nov 2023

Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the hallmark of insanity.

And even in the old days, it actually worked ONCE--with Selma, and that wasn't from the marching, but from the horrified national response to what happened at Edmund Pettus bridge on Bloody Sunday.

BTW, the March on Washington didn't get the Civil Rights bill passed. It was all of the more effective actions taken before and after it--the Montgomery bus boycotts, lunch counter sit-ins, Freedom Rides, Birmingham's Children's crusades, Freedom Summers, and etc.

Those actions worked because they actually did something practical, and put people's lives on the line. What did people risk to be at the March on Washington? A sunburn? Heat stroke?

Please. How bloody pathetic.

Marches don't change anything. Did the millions who marched against invading Iraq stop that war? Nope. Did the millions of women who marched for their rights keep abortion legal across the nation? Nope. Did the plethora of marches for BLM change race relations in this racist dump? Nope.

So why keep resorting to that failed tactic like a dog going back to its vomit?

WAKE UP.

yardwork

(61,204 posts)
49. There are different kinds of protests.
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 08:43 AM
Nov 2023

You make an accurate distinction, imo, between effective protests and purely performative events.

It's fine to go to a peaceful march. Participating helps to create a sense of belonging and team work, being part of something important. Marches help get out the vote.

Unfortunately, the performances by DSA and other groups do none of that. Groups of people who already know one another and attend endless meetings and conferences together, gathering to yell at Democratic officials, shoving racist and antisemitic images in people's faces, damaging property - it looks terrible. It turns people against them.

It's J6 - pointless, violent, a mob.

Basic LA

(1,456 posts)
4. We could stop our UN veto of ceasefire.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:06 AM
Nov 2023

We could join the world & let Netanyahu know that we call for a ceasefire, at least. We can take a stand against rather than for the international war crime of collective punishment. That's worth protesting for. Though on the other hand, I think protests that close down bridges & roads are counterproductive.

TwilightZone

(24,763 posts)
10. The UN vote has no binding power.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:42 AM
Nov 2023

It's nothing more than symbolic. It's not going to change anything on its own.

"We can take a stand against rather than for the international war crime"

"We" haven't taken a stand for international war crimes. This assertion shows a profound, likely intentional, ignorance of the steps that the Biden administration has taken and continues to take.

Basic LA

(1,456 posts)
36. "We" Vetoed a UN ceasefire resolution.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:29 AM
Nov 2023

It doesn't mean Netanyahu would immediately stop the war crimes if such a resolution passed. You're right there, of course. But "our" vote would show which side "we're" on, at least. Taking a stand on the Ceasefire doesn't seem all that controversial, nor does it show "a profound ignorance."

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
39. ya know, it's not just that israel has a RIGHT to defend itself, it has a DUTY to.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 12:21 PM
Nov 2023

it’s just preposterous to expect them to put down their weapons while there r still hostages being held.
ditto insisting they enter an agreement with such an unreliable partner.
it appears to me that international pressure is leading to more focused actions. but i rly dont know.

no one can tell them to do nothing. nor should they.
no one has the power to make them listen, in any case.

EYESORE 9001

(25,705 posts)
7. I think RW agents of chaos stumbled upon their formula for success. If we allow it.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:25 AM
Nov 2023

Overturning abortion blew up in their faces and we’re still struggling with the assault on LGBTQ+ rights, but this latest conflict in Israel & Gaza is splitting us in a way that I’ve never seen. I envision MAGAtry rubbing their evil little hands together gleefully at the seeds of chaos come to fruition.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
31. i'd personally like to know how many ppl's job it is a faux snooze to hunt down shit like this.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:02 AM
Nov 2023

it is, in fact, a job to search local news for outrage worthy stories. they know exactly what they r looking for and how to play it.
the plan is- b ready to strike at any time.

IronLionZion

(45,037 posts)
11. Joe Biden controls gas prices and inflation
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:47 AM
Nov 2023

but only when it's high

The US is the only country with any influence over there. Israel uses American weapons. I suppose people could also go protest in front of the Iranian embassies around the world to stop giving weapons to Hamas.

relayerbob

(6,483 posts)
13. Agreed
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:10 AM
Nov 2023

Some folks seem to think he can just rule by fiat. We don’t need dictators, even if we agree with the policies.

David__77

(23,084 posts)
14. There's all sorts of words and actions he could take on Gaza.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:13 AM
Nov 2023

He could withhold aid, apply sanctions, withhold veto of Security Council resolutions.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
26. none of which lead to him solving this over night.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:51 AM
Nov 2023

he has used what power he has wisely and well. and he has a fantastic team, btw.
ppl being pissed at HIM, and all dems, that it isnt fixed yet is both stupid and counter productive.

David__77

(23,084 posts)
28. I agree it wouldn't solve things overnight.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:56 AM
Nov 2023

Politics involves perception, and the handling of that is important. It’s not just an administrative/management issue.

Random Boomer

(4,153 posts)
15. This misperception abounds in other topics, too
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:19 AM
Nov 2023

On the climate-related forums of Reddit, I'm constantly hearing how Biden has failed to deal with climate change because he hasn't mandated this or that draconian edict that would be hugely controversial and lack general support, not to mention the support of Republicans.

There seems to be no understanding of how our government works, and how limited a president's powers are, by design. We live in a democracy, at least for now, and a substantial portion of the American people would not stand for any green initiative that resulted in the slightest inconvenience. If we lose our Democracy, the GOP will bury green initiatives in cement and oil sludge.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
16. seems like all it takes is a little streak of stupid, and there's always someone waiting to pound the wedge.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:25 AM
Nov 2023

so much dangerous stupidity out there. and so many evil doers, waiting to pounce.

WhiskeyGrinder

(21,963 posts)
17. Yes, the U.S. and its president are definitely just a tiny baby in the geopolitical reality of the Middle East.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:26 AM
Nov 2023

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
25. not saying he's powerless, and imho
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:48 AM
Nov 2023

he has wielded what power he has wisely and well.
but it’s just stupid to pretend he has actual hard power here.

IronLionZion

(45,037 posts)
21. There's a chance we could lose reelection over this
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:41 AM
Nov 2023

considering the strong opinions and division on the left on this issue.

The right is more unified in their position. Trump would make things 100 times worse for sure, but his supporters would love it.

IronLionZion

(45,037 posts)
51. Liberals are like that. Diverse opinions and perspectives
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 09:15 AM
Nov 2023

some are knee jerk, some are more thoughtful and informed, a lot of it is passionate and makes a big difference in election turnout.

RFK Jr has surprisingly high poll numbers now and he's a loony.

yardwork

(61,204 posts)
53. I know but it's exhausting.
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 09:19 AM
Nov 2023

There's way too much uninformed propaganda-driven knee jerk mob mentality on all sides. I expect more of Democrats.

I guess I'm just an old woman shouting at clouds!

BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
27. The last guy who thought he was king is on trial now...
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 10:52 AM
Nov 2023

But seriously - we have no idea what is really happening behind the scenes between the Biden administration, Israel, and Hamas. We are only going on media reports which are mostly tweaked to fit an audience profile.

NCIndie

(556 posts)
30. Kings can't stop wars by decree, either. However, in the case of Biden:
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:00 AM
Nov 2023

He could push for economic penalties against Israel for their brutal tactics.

Protestors generally look for venues that will get them attention and press, regardless of whether their targets has the power to make the desired changes.

Netanyahu's reaction and our continued economic support will, as always, result in innocent people in the U.S. and around the world to be killed as the terrorist reactions are initiated. We can then divide ourselves again debating whether or not the actions are justified.

 

Paidon

(13 posts)
32. We need to stop giving voters a pass
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:05 AM
Nov 2023

Everyone mentions the flaws of this or that candidate, not mentioning the stupidity of the voters.
I’d trump wins once again it will be the fault of the voter, who don’t think.

Snackshack

(2,535 posts)
35. This is real.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:25 AM
Nov 2023

Last edited Mon Nov 20, 2023, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

This is what we are now and it has been allowed to go on for so long there is no going back.

Not going to win any heart s with this but the Dems in 2020 really needed to come in and be adults and start applying and enforcing the law across the board and policies and procedure's codified for hundreds of years... but they did not. Biden wanted to channel his inner Barrack and Schumer was/is a very weak majority leader add in garland and it is a recipe for inaction.

Trump should be in a cell by now. The man lied knowingly about a deadly virus and did all he could to stop a response to it. Over 1 million Americans died. THERE IS NO OTHER instance in the history of any developed democracy where a person lied like that in a position of power that resulted in over 1 million of its citizens dying and remained free. Then he went on to attack DC and steal 100's of TS docs on his way out. We are a pretty forgiving country after the Civil War America sentenced only 1 Confederate soldier to hang and that was for his actions in the treatment of Union POW's. However what have seen in TFG is a bridge too far and should have been addressed by now not allowed to fester and continue to cause havoc.

Furthermore the every member of the GOP who propagated the "Hoax" lie then the Election lies, took part or the attack on DC and has continued to act in a manner that goes against the Oath taken on day 1 in office should be either also in a cell or out of government at the very least as they have shown they are not good stewards of Democracy.

Instead we have a POTUS, Sen Majority Leader and AG who are in over their heads when it comes to correcting our heading and getting Americas back on track, salvaging whatever is left of our "exceptionalism" that has enabled us for decades to be the superpower we have been.

There is a gigantic phucking storm brewing right now that is going to reach inside the lives of every human being on this planet and pull it inside out. When temperature catches up to CO2 in the atmosphere it is going to change every aspect of life as it is understood today. Nothing will be "normal" as we've come to know it. Weather system will change, food corps counted on for decades will vanish, HVM food production required for the 8 billion humans it feeds will plummet and will not be sustainable, right now we would need 2.8 more Earths to "grow" enough food to feed us all. Water will be the new "living space" or gold and you have not seen a war like that there will be no rules, no Geneva conventions. CO2 is at 422.36ppm, it was an avg of 417.37ppm in 2022 at 1.2% increase YoY... we are going to blow right past the 2C limit from Paris. 5C-10C or more is what reality will be. See Venus for reference on how bad it can get...

...and right now we cant even get one man with common sense of a door knob in check and his follower who are even less then door knobs.

There is nothing sanguine about our outlook after watching the last 23 year of continued gop obstruction, criminality, incompetence and the Democratic response or lack of response to it... I am not sanguine at all. Since 9/11 the gop has given us one disaster after another. 2 wars, torture, endless obstruction, katrina response, global econ collapse,... then trump a pandemic, attacked DC, stolen TS docs, emolument violations, security violations, unabashed profiting off the office of president... so much.it is still going to be 50-100yrs before the fecal hurricane thats winding up really hits and most of us will be long gone, i certainly will. A recent ct scan showed swollen lymph nodes and anyone who knows anything about lymph nodes knows what that means... so next couple weeks are going to be interesting...but what a shitty deal we are leaving to the other humans will be here when it arrives.

Shame on us.

Chainfire

(17,182 posts)
37. No, Biden is not a king, but he is one of the most powerful men in the world.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 11:46 AM
Nov 2023

Lets try not to deny that.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
38. i didnt. he has power, he has used it wisely and well, imho.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 12:15 PM
Nov 2023

about that, we can quibble.
but imho, it is outright dangerous to swallow this notion, that he/the office, is powerful enough to just fix it. it is doomed to fail. and then what?

Oneironaut

(5,416 posts)
42. This conflict is Biden's albatross.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 06:15 PM
Nov 2023

He can’t win either way. If he supports Israel, Palestinian supporters hate him. If he supports Palestine, Israel supporters hate him. If he tries to take a nuanced approach, both sides hate him.

Ignoring the human catastrophe, nothing good can come to Democrats from it.

mopinko

(69,565 posts)
43. who's doing that? no one is ignoring anything.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 08:23 PM
Nov 2023

the point is- how is he culpable if he doesnt have the power to do jack shit?
of all the necks in the world around which to hang this, WHY joe biden?

he’s using all the soft power of the office already. he’s done so much.
he’s a lightening rod here.

Oneironaut

(5,416 posts)
47. Oh I agree he's handling it well.
Mon Nov 20, 2023, 09:57 PM
Nov 2023

However. It’s like he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. Two sides want him to come completely out for them, and, resent him for not doing so.

Ah - I think you misunderstood. I meant “ignoring the human catastrophe” in the sense of “Along with the human catastrophe.” Biden is far from ignoring the issue.

IronLionZion

(45,037 posts)
52. The fact that he's getting it from both sides makes me think he's doing it fairly
Tue Nov 21, 2023, 09:18 AM
Nov 2023

given the circumstances and what he has to deal with, the Biden administration is taking a nuanced reasonable thoughtful approach to the conflict. Meanwhile a lot of voters from both sides are passionate and strongly opinionated.

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