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mysteryowl

(7,224 posts)
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 10:27 AM Nov 2023

I truly wonder why so many approve of Netanyahu's tactics.

He is a RW extremist. He has been prosecuted for corruption and dismissed from office, only to come back again.
He changed the courts eroding democracy so he could have more power.

Why are his beliefs about the decimation of Gaza the right ones?

130 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I truly wonder why so many approve of Netanyahu's tactics. (Original Post) mysteryowl Nov 2023 OP
I wonder that as well RainWalker Nov 2023 #1
When there is a fox getting in your coop killing chickens, Chuuku Davis Nov 2023 #119
or remove it. Think. Again. Nov 2023 #130
I wonder the same about those that tacitly approve of Hamas' tactics. LexVegas Nov 2023 #2
I don't think that people who firmly believe two wrongs don't make a right, are "tacitly approving" RAB910 Nov 2023 #6
Few people approve of Hamas' tactics, but many people disapprove of Netanyahu and his tactics. Lonestarblue Nov 2023 #9
+1. To say that Netanyahu is without his critics stopdiggin Nov 2023 #29
To imply that the OP claimed.... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #52
the OP is headed stopdiggin Nov 2023 #68
Questioning why 'so many' approve .... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #80
sounded an awful lot like that to me. stopdiggin Nov 2023 #93
Do you have any examples? FoxNewsSucks Nov 2023 #18
If you live in a sheltered world and only talk to reasonable people...e Bucky Nov 2023 #27
Do you have any examples? Think. Again. Nov 2023 #53
Yes, but it's heartbreaking Bucky Nov 2023 #58
I see, thank you... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #60
Pro Palestinian demonstrations are pro peace demonstrations Bucky Nov 2023 #61
I agree... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #62
Nobody here has done that. Voltaire2 Nov 2023 #59
Other than the Israeli voters who keep re-electing him, who else approves? yardwork Nov 2023 #3
Netanyahu was on all the stations this morning True Blue American Nov 2023 #20
That doesn't answer my question. yardwork Nov 2023 #40
There are Jews here in the US who support him. (You're just not friends with them..LOL) LeftInTX Nov 2023 #97
So, right wingers support a right winger. yardwork Nov 2023 #115
Netanyahu belongs in prison. But Hamas needs to be dead. dalton99a Nov 2023 #4
Concisely done. Cha Nov 2023 #43
I think you just solved it all. Think. Again. Nov 2023 #55
Netanyahu is a stain on the garment of Israeli government that won't wash out. patphil Nov 2023 #5
I appreciate your post. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #7
What missles weren't shot down? brooklynite Nov 2023 #10
I saw a report that said rockets got through Chautauquas Nov 2023 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Mossfern Nov 2023 #47
They fired them on a lower trajectory so they stayed under what the radar would consider a target ripcord Nov 2023 #76
It's not a tough thing to explain. Igel Nov 2023 #14
There were too many missiles fired at once, was my understanding. mjvpi Nov 2023 #21
Iron Dome like every other missile defense is capable of being overwhelmed if vast amounts of missiles are fired. EX500rider Nov 2023 #46
It confuses me ... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #56
WTF? Mosby Nov 2023 #69
Now I'm even more confused... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #84
You seem to be selective in your reading ripcord Nov 2023 #78
I see... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #85
Kind of like inthewind21 Nov 2023 #109
Who said no one had a clue? EX500rider Nov 2023 #88
I don't know inthewind21 Nov 2023 #110
You are so right. Give Peace A Chance Nov 2023 #11
If you wanted to destroy all the good will, empathy and support maxrandb Nov 2023 #8
Israel needs a 9/11 type commission. Sneederbunk Nov 2023 #12
That might be helpful, but Net does not want the truth to get out. IMO mysteryowl Nov 2023 #16
Grief and Vengeance. haele Nov 2023 #15
Because as soon as Netanyahu is criticized for his policies or tactics gratuitous Nov 2023 #17
I can appreciate your comments. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #19
Like myself, there are many Netanyahu foes who can tell antisemitism from criticism. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #25
Bingo. And the lack of urgency about releasing the hostages Nixie Nov 2023 #71
I haven't seen anyone here defending Netanyahu Mossfern Nov 2023 #48
I haven't seen anyone here defending anti-semitism. Think. Again. Nov 2023 #54
Really? I see antisemitism right in this thread. Mosby Nov 2023 #70
My apologies... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #81
Sea lions, man... AZSkiffyGeek Nov 2023 #82
Oh now stop..... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #86
Used of 911, LIHOP Let it happen on purpose treestar Nov 2023 #123
Thanks!... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #124
Post 5 was enough of a trigger treestar Nov 2023 #128
It could be that the Netanyahu supporters are more vocal Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #22
I too can only take in a little of the live news images and I turn it off. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #23
Where on DU? Mossfern Nov 2023 #89
You can honestly say... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #94
What was choice B for Israel after a massacre of Israeli's from Hamas out of Gaza? EX500rider Nov 2023 #96
You're starting a completely different discussion... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #100
You said: "supporters of netanyahu's decisions to fire on Gaza?" EX500rider Nov 2023 #101
Huh? Mossfern Nov 2023 #102
Are you saying there is a separation between... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #103
Oh Mossfern Nov 2023 #104
I'M acting like a troll???... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #105
I said "response from Israel" - exactly my words Mossfern Nov 2023 #106
The "response from Israel" is netanyahu's response... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #108
I wrote Mossfern Nov 2023 #113
I would expect, no, DEMAND.... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #114
Reasonable answer Mossfern Nov 2023 #116
I remember rec'ing one of your Seeds of Peace posts... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #117
So then no response whatsoever? Mossfern Nov 2023 #118
I firmly believe... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #120
I also assumed that Netanyahu and Israeli action are connected. N/t Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #121
Is that not a correct assumption? Think. Again. Nov 2023 #122
I sure thought so. He is the Prime Minister. But now you're being confronted Greybnk48 Nov 2023 #125
There are people here... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #129
At this moment, the war is directed by the national unity government. It is not Netanyahu's government Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #24
Right inthewind21 Nov 2023 #65
Gantz is in charge. Mosby Nov 2023 #72
And inthewind21 Nov 2023 #111
The point is that Netanyahu isn't in charge Mosby Nov 2023 #112
Aren't Palestinians also mostly "right wing extremists?" gulliver Nov 2023 #26
Your belief about Palestinians is incorrect and part of the propaganda. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #28
Is it against the law to be LGBTQ+ in Palestine? gulliver Nov 2023 #32
I can ask my friends from that region. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #36
That would be good gulliver Nov 2023 #49
Palestine criminalises same-sex sexual activity between men. Sentences include a maximum penalty of ten years'.. Cha Nov 2023 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Nov 2023 #50
You are again... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #57
According to Pew Mosby Nov 2023 #74
Good correction... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #83
There are right-wing extremists in the Israeli Government Big Blue Marble Nov 2023 #38
Let us know when Gaza has a Gay Pride Parade EX500rider Nov 2023 #98
I wonder... edisdead Nov 2023 #30
Israel inthewind21 Nov 2023 #66
I don't think I said Hamas was surprised edisdead Nov 2023 #91
A Putin Success! snowybirdie Nov 2023 #31
This x1000 n/t Cheezoholic Nov 2023 #33
I too feel America needs to be neutral here. mysteryowl Nov 2023 #35
No, thanks, I am not really interested in being "neutral" when one side is a terrorist group. EX500rider Nov 2023 #99
I despise TFG but if he was president on 12/7/1941 I would have reluctantly supported him. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2023 #34
He would have already taken Hitler's side by '41. johnp3907 Nov 2023 #37
He would have been torn between Hitler and Stalin and supported the one who was more flattering. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2023 #39
I'd have to go with Mussolini on this one. Abolishinist Nov 2023 #41
I didn't support W after 9/11 RainWalker Nov 2023 #42
I know why, it's pretty obvious Polybius Nov 2023 #44
It's a bit like asking why TFG was/is so popular despite being bigoted & incompetent. RockRaven Nov 2023 #51
Israel's own MAGA voters. marble falls Nov 2023 #63
Islamophobia. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2023 #64
I can address JustAnotherGen Nov 2023 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Nov 2023 #73
War is War Kennah Nov 2023 #75
Very few do..... getagrip_already Nov 2023 #77
Many say they support Palestinians but not Hamas ripcord Nov 2023 #79
He's a national hero Takealeft Nov 2023 #87
Oh, Americans understand why some folks love far right, authoritative leaders with no empathy obamanut2012 Nov 2023 #90
He's doing what needs to be done manicdem Nov 2023 #92
Israel was attacked. It isn't about Netanyahu Joinfortmill Nov 2023 #95
Some people have no problem with authoritarians as long as they "authoritate" in a way you like. WarGamer Nov 2023 #107
Good question. marble falls Nov 2023 #126
Fear? The same thing Trump uses to gain power KPN Nov 2023 #127

RAB910

(3,426 posts)
6. I don't think that people who firmly believe two wrongs don't make a right, are "tacitly approving"
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:12 AM
Nov 2023

Lonestarblue

(9,702 posts)
9. Few people approve of Hamas' tactics, but many people disapprove of Netanyahu and his tactics.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:29 AM
Nov 2023

Netanyahu has fought a two-state solution for decades and has bragged about blowing up the Oslo accords. To stay in power, he aligned himself with the most hard right-wing Israeli who describe Palestinians as animals who have no right to live in their own homeland. And the reason Hamas was able to do the damage they did was because Bibi had pulled troops to the West Bank to portect settlers who were killing Palestinians and taking their land, which they are still doing while the world’s attention is on Gaza.

World news media are now writing about Israel’s ethnic cleansing and their apparent next next of erasing the entire Gaza population, which is genocide.

stopdiggin

(10,916 posts)
29. +1. To say that Netanyahu is without his critics
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:42 PM
Nov 2023

is a total fabrication of the realities and facts on the ground. It is only slightly less of a distortion to pretend that the tactics and agenda in the Gaza haven't been harshly debated and scrutinized. Likewise the settlements, and settler violence, have been strong condemned from all quarters (including the WH).
The pretense that some sort of 'free pass' has been handed out - and 'none shall speak ill ..' - is a complete misrepresentation, and pure drivel.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
52. To imply that the OP claimed....
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 03:30 AM
Nov 2023

...netanyahu is 'without (his) critics', is a total fabrication of the realities and facts of the OP and pure drivel.

stopdiggin

(10,916 posts)
68. the OP is headed
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 10:47 AM
Nov 2023
I truly wonder why so many approve of Netanyahu's tactics.

If there isn't a strong inference there to a 'free pass', or something on that order, that needs attention and strong condemnation - then perhaps I should be brushing up on my English skills.

(My reading - the entire thrust was a scold on non-critical support of Netanyahu. And I believe I'll stick with that.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
80. Questioning why 'so many' approve ....
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:26 AM
Nov 2023

...of netanyahu's tactics is a far cry from stating he has a 'free pass'.

There is obviously 'very many' who disapprove, which means he is definitely not getting a free pass.

stopdiggin

(10,916 posts)
93. sounded an awful lot like that to me.
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 03:30 PM
Nov 2023

And I believe I'm going to ride with my take on the OP here. But thanks.

Bucky

(53,556 posts)
27. If you live in a sheltered world and only talk to reasonable people...e
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:32 PM
Nov 2023

then you won't have met people who support Hamas's mass murders/war crimes as a "tactical success", but indeed there are such fools

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
60. I see, thank you...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:04 AM
Nov 2023

...I am firmly against hamas.

That being clearly and sincerely stated, I'd like to point out that in each of those articles, the protests are labelled as "Pro-Palestinian" not "Pro-hamas".

And yes, I see in those articles instances of support for Hama's terrorist attack, but I believe those are isolated and individual instances by protesters within the larger group and might not rightfully be used as representative of the overall Pro-Palestinian event.

I know I will be called out for trying to excuse pro--hamas demonstrations, but I do NOT support pro-hamas anything.

I do however support Pro-Palestinian demonstrations.

There is a difference, just as there is a difference between Pro-American and Pro-maga.

Bucky

(53,556 posts)
61. Pro Palestinian demonstrations are pro peace demonstrations
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:08 AM
Nov 2023

The people who have been cheering on Hamas's actions in Israel are pro-slaughter. I don't think they have ground to stand on for denouncing the indiscriminate mass killing of Palestinians. They encourage exactly that when they support the slaughter of Israelis.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
62. I agree...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:18 AM
Nov 2023

...again, I see the demonstrations covered in those articles are referred to as Pro-Palestinian demonstrations, and yes I see there were Pro-hamas supporters among them.

yardwork

(61,202 posts)
3. Other than the Israeli voters who keep re-electing him, who else approves?
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 10:45 AM
Nov 2023

Netanyahu seems to one global figure with almost universal disapproval. I don't know a single person who approves of him or his policies. None of the Jewish people I know support him at all - they blame him and his policies for making everything worse.

The Biden administration seems to loathe him.

Could you point me toward a single reputable commentator who supports him? (His cabinet of mini-mes doesn't count.)

True Blue American

(17,935 posts)
20. Netanyahu was on all the stations this morning
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:01 PM
Nov 2023

The IDF SPOKESMA was on Acosta last night. His arrogance was awful.

LeftInTX

(24,266 posts)
97. There are Jews here in the US who support him. (You're just not friends with them..LOL)
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:45 PM
Nov 2023

Of course they're mostly right wingers.

He keeps getting re-elected because he builds coalitions with members of Parliament who are the further to the right of him.
There is also the huge AIPAC here in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/aipac-gaza/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/11/aipac-israel-gaza-netanyahu-mark-pocan.html

His brother was also a big hero and I think that is why he got a boost. I remember right after Netanyahu became PM I met someone who said, "My kids go to Netanyahu Academy"...I'm thinking, "The guy just became PM and already has a school named after him?"

I didn't know he had a brother, who was considered a hero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonatan_Netanyahu

The school since been renamed.

patphil

(5,908 posts)
5. Netanyahu is a stain on the garment of Israeli government that won't wash out.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:03 AM
Nov 2023

Like Trump, he fans the flames of fear, anger, and hatred in his base.
I'm not sure he could have maintained his government much longer if it wasn't for the convenient attack by Hamas.
I'm not saying he in in collusion with them, but he certainly knew the attack was coming, and did nothing to protect the Israeli people.
Now he's engaged in brutal, ruthless attacks on Gaza, with no concern for the toll in pain, suffering, death, and destruction of it's people.
You get the feeling he would like a wider war. After all, who's going to remove their leader during wartime?
Netanyahu is an evil man, and, I see him as just a different kind of terrorist. Essentially he's not much different from Hamas.
Both are reprehensible.

mysteryowl

(7,224 posts)
7. I appreciate your post.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:14 AM
Nov 2023

It is indeed not missed on me that the incoming Hamas missiles were not shot down by the US-funded air defense system. I believe it is called the iron dome. How is it this is the first time the Israeli air defense system did not work? Not at all!
I did not see any news report that even some of the missiles were shot down. How is this not a huge question and very suspect?

Chautauquas

(4,428 posts)
13. I saw a report that said rockets got through
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:44 AM
Nov 2023

I don't recall where I read it but the report stated that the number of rockets fired simultaneously overwhelmed iron dome and some of them got through.

Response to Chautauquas (Reply #13)

Igel

(35,104 posts)
14. It's not a tough thing to explain.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:48 AM
Nov 2023

I've explained it. Other have explained it.

This explains it with more authority than common sense can: https://fortune.com/2023/10/13/why-did-israel-iron-dome-air-defense-fail-hamas-attack/

A lot of missiles were shot down. There were reports of damaged buildings from intercepted missiles coming down. (Even if they go boom in the air, the mass that didn't get converted to gasses still has to land somewhere.)

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
46. Iron Dome like every other missile defense is capable of being overwhelmed if vast amounts of missiles are fired.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 04:34 PM
Nov 2023

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
56. It confuses me ...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 03:45 AM
Nov 2023

...how hamas was able to collect, assemble, set up, and use so many large pieces of artillary in such a small and well-watched area, enough to overwhelm a strong, U.S. backed defense shield, without anyone having any clue about it beforehand.

ripcord

(4,954 posts)
78. You seem to be selective in your reading
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:17 AM
Nov 2023

Hamas has a huge tunnel network that for years have been used to smuggle in arms. Iran has been supporting Hamas and makes sure they the ability to target Israel, in other words state sponsored terrorism.

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
109. Kind of like
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 07:00 PM
Nov 2023

all those WMD's that were smuggled out of Iraq into Syria via tunnels? Anyone ever find those?

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
88. Who said no one had a clue?
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 12:55 PM
Nov 2023

It was well known that Iran was suppling parts and tech to built 1,000's of rockets in Gaza, what did you expect Israel to do about it?
Bomb Gaza like they are doing now was about the only choice.

maxrandb

(15,034 posts)
8. If you wanted to destroy all the good will, empathy and support
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:21 AM
Nov 2023

that Israel truly deserves in this time, you couldn't pick a better person than Netanyahu to do it.

haele

(12,553 posts)
15. Grief and Vengeance.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:49 AM
Nov 2023

Strong emotional response isn't complicated. Just get rid of the problem, and they feel that since it all worked out before, it will work out again.
And sure, Hamas and their ilk are nihilistic barbarians whose organization should be wiped out (not being sarcastic, their leadership is corrupt, their members are broken and I don't know how to fix that level of greedy and fanatical hate), and since they're in charge of Gaza, all Gazans are culpable for their actions.

However, the world is much more complicated now than it was in the 1960's/1970's. Especially since everyone is carrying a camera with instant world-wide dissemination and there's some serious outside forces with an interest in the destruction of Western democracy rather than keeping Arab states in an exploited, subservient state for easy access to oil. Israel is being used as a pawn between the autocrats and the West. And I'm pretty sure Netanyahu is setting himself up to do a Yasser Arafat, with an escape plan should everything turn south. He's going to be perfectly safe with his wealth intact, no matter what happens in Israel proper. He can set himself up as a figurehead government in exile in his foreverwar if his plans don't work out, but at least he's going to take all those nasty, uppity Palestinians, Liberals, and Israeli Arabs out before he goes.

I don't think pure Isreali belligerence can succeed this time.

Haele

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
17. Because as soon as Netanyahu is criticized for his policies or tactics
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:51 AM
Nov 2023

A horde of defenders materializes to equate any criticism as anti-semitism and support for Hamas. At best, critics are dismissed as naive or ignorant of the realpolitik dimensions who can be safely excluded from the discussion.

mysteryowl

(7,224 posts)
19. I can appreciate your comments.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:00 PM
Nov 2023

I can't help but think of how exploited the Native Americans were and the propaganda that supported their genocide.
Feels similar to me.

Beastly Boy

(8,899 posts)
25. Like myself, there are many Netanyahu foes who can tell antisemitism from criticism.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:24 PM
Nov 2023

I can't say the same for the antisemites who cannot tell this difference while defending antisemitism.

Nixie

(16,840 posts)
71. Bingo. And the lack of urgency about releasing the hostages
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:01 AM
Nov 2023

also is complete hypocrisy while pushing a ceasefire. It seems that people don't like Netanyahu so it doesn't matter about the hostages.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
81. My apologies...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:30 AM
Nov 2023

...could you explain "MIHOP" and "LIHOP" please?

Also, are you seeing anti-semitism in this thread or anti-Israeli policy/actions?

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
86. Oh now stop.....
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:49 AM
Nov 2023

...my flat statement was replied to in a code I don't know, my asking for an explanation of that code is not sealioning.

Or maybe you're referring to the second part of my response which is also a legitimate question unless you believe anti-semitism includes critique of Israeli government activities which I don't believe it does.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
123. Used of 911, LIHOP Let it happen on purpose
Thu Nov 16, 2023, 04:56 PM
Nov 2023

and MIHOP made it happen on purpose.
Though no one suggested any such thing, but noticed some anomalies, but that was enough for some to conclude for sure they were suggesting LIHOP or MIHOP and that such a suggestion is anti-semitism.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
124. Thanks!...
Thu Nov 16, 2023, 05:14 PM
Nov 2023

...that's the first I've heard of those anagrams.

And it's the first I've heard of anyone suggesting Israel might have done that, or is that actually being discussed? Kind of like a reverse false flag conspiracy thing?

I've read a lot about Israel being distracted with the settlers, and accusations of incompetence that they didn't see it coming, but not that they actually knew it was coming and allowed it.

But I also don't understand how that would be considered anti-semitic, anyway.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
128. Post 5 was enough of a trigger
Fri Nov 17, 2023, 09:58 AM
Nov 2023

to bring about a claim of accusations of LIHOP or MIHOP.

Anti-semitism accusation will come with any questioning eventually, and LIHOP or MIHOP would surely qualify. The accusation, whether it is justifiable or not.

Greybnk48

(10,135 posts)
22. It could be that the Netanyahu supporters are more vocal
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:06 PM
Nov 2023

than those of us who are horrified by BOTH the brutal, inhuman actions of Hamas AND Netanyahu's brutal, inhuman actions.

I am having trouble watching the news at night, watching Palestinian children and innocent civilians be massacred. I also cannot get the vision of the young Isreali girl being yanked out of the back of a car, hands bound, and her pants soiled with either what i hope was poop and not blood. Or the young kids running across the sand from a concert that was attacked.
Horrific.

mysteryowl

(7,224 posts)
23. I too can only take in a little of the live news images and I turn it off.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:14 PM
Nov 2023

It is so distressing and I weep with the collective anguish.

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
89. Where on DU?
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 01:21 PM
Nov 2023

There are no Netanyahu supporters that I've seen here.
I thought this is what it was about.

BTW in my neighborhood I've seen a Palestinian flag, but no Israeli flags ... if we're talking about
the non- social media universe.

How about babies being wired to their parents and burned alive.
If Hamas wants a cease fire so badly, they can show a good faith measure by returning all the hostages.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
94. You can honestly say...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:32 PM
Nov 2023

...that you haven't seen any netanyahu supporters here on DU when you yourself have been one of the biggest supporters of netanyahu's decisions to fire on Gaza????

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
96. What was choice B for Israel after a massacre of Israeli's from Hamas out of Gaza?
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:43 PM
Nov 2023

Send them a sternly worded letter? Complain at the UN?

Any country in the world would be at war with their neighbor after what Hamas did.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
100. You're starting a completely different discussion...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:53 PM
Nov 2023

...than my question to a different poster warrants.

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
101. You said: "supporters of netanyahu's decisions to fire on Gaza?"
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:58 PM
Nov 2023

And I said what other choice would any other country have made?

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
102. Huh?
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 05:14 PM
Nov 2023

Please point out where.
Yes I believe there should have been a response form Israel for Hamas atrocities, murder and taking hostages. Please document any post of mine that supports Netanyahu.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
103. Are you saying there is a separation between...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 05:22 PM
Nov 2023

netanyahu and Israeli action?

You say you support Israel's military response but that does not mean you support netanyahu?

And this is an honest question because I do not know;

Has Israel made military decisions and conducted military operations that netanyahu was not involved in?

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
105. I'M acting like a troll???...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 06:04 PM
Nov 2023

You tell me you support the military response of Israel but then question why I assume you support netanyahu.

Where is the difference???

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
106. I said "response from Israel" - exactly my words
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 06:18 PM
Nov 2023

and somehow you take that to mean that I support Netanyahu...

done

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
113. I wrote
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 07:34 PM
Nov 2023
A response.

Let's have a conversation about empathy.
OK?
Pretend you are Israeli and your daughter was raped and your wife was mutilated by having her breasts cut off before she was raped and then murdered, and then your infant was put in the oven set on high.
The people who did this were acting in the name of the government of a neighboring area.
Your family was not the only one effected - hundreds of families, thousands of people.
Hundreds of hostages - corpses brought back to their villages to be spit on and beat - cheering mobs giving out celebratory candies to their children.

What do you think your government should do?
Please answer without a "but"

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
114. I would expect, no, DEMAND....
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 07:45 PM
Nov 2023

...that my government does everything within it's power and international law to make sure THE PEOPLE THAT DID THAT and the government they were acting in the name of never do that again to anyone, ever.

I would also demand that my government DOES NOT DO THE SAME to anyone else, especially not in the name of my loved ones.

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
116. Reasonable answer
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:04 PM
Nov 2023

but since when has Israel been able to demand anything?
So far no one is talking about returning the hostages.

Let's say that Israel takes it to the UN. What do you think the response would be based on the history of that body?

Who enforces international law?
https://unwatch.org/un-officials-and-bodies-react-to-october-2023-hamas-massacre-and-its-aftermath/

(lets keep Netanyahu out of this as if you search my posts you'll see that I've denounced him many times)

Try this: https://www.seedsofpeace.org/
I've posted this link a few times so far - I will continue to do so in order for people to know where I stand and have stood for many many years. I used to post on Ummah - back in the 1990's comparing recipes with women there, trying to explain misconceptions about Jewish people., learning about Islam.I am not a right wing person.

You chose the wrong person to accuse.
Did you make assumptions about me because of my avatar?

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
117. I remember rec'ing one of your Seeds of Peace posts...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:15 PM
Nov 2023

And no, I didn't think of your avatar.

You are very supportive of the military response by Israel, that directly relates to support of netanyahu's decision to make that military response.

That's all there is to it.

I personally disagree with Israel's military response, and although I don't have an answer for what the response should have been to stop hamas forever, I firmly believe it can be (could have been) done without the horrific amount of non-hamas Palestinian bloodshed.

Mossfern

(2,292 posts)
118. So then no response whatsoever?
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:28 PM
Nov 2023

No one has come up with an effective non military response to the atrocities and the promise of further atrocities. Understand calling for a cease fire means nothing. Hamas attacked Israel during a cease fire.

Calling for another one will change nothing.
Hamas does not care about Palestinians.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
120. I firmly believe...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 08:55 PM
Nov 2023

...that in this day and age, with all the modern tech we have at our fingertips and all we have learned about psychological, financial, and informational warfare, there are probably multiple ways hamas can be destroyed forever without ever harming an innocent civilian in Gaza.

In fact, I know that the majority of Gazans would benefit and be grateful if that was done immediately.

Greybnk48

(10,135 posts)
125. I sure thought so. He is the Prime Minister. But now you're being confronted
Fri Nov 17, 2023, 09:28 AM
Nov 2023

also for the same assumption I originally made. I agree with you, and I'm confused by the pushback by others.

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
129. There are people here...
Fri Nov 17, 2023, 10:02 AM
Nov 2023

...who seem to be very determined to push the argument that the rightwing Israeli government headed by netanyahu is unquestionably correct in all they do.

A lot of times they will try to silence discussion by playing the anti-semitism card, or claiming Israel's right to revenge, regardless of who, other than hamas, gets killed, maimed, and or traumatized by netanyahu's violent aggression.

I've learned not to assume that DU is only populated by Democrats.

gulliver

(13,129 posts)
26. Aren't Palestinians also mostly "right wing extremists?"
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:30 PM
Nov 2023

Netanyahu is an immoral idiot, and his career is over. Netanyahu isn't anti-Semitic though. He's not homophobic, as far as I know. He believes in equal rights for women, as far as I know.

Netanyahu, bad as he is, didn't order rapes, kidnappings, grisly torture-murders, murders, and other atrocities as Hamas/ISIS did. None of Netanyahu's soldiers deliberately killed innocents at all as far as I know. There have been no reports of that. Those innocents who have been killed wouldn't have died at all if not for Hamas/ISIS and anyone who supports them in any way whatsoever.

Netanyahu, to me, is the Israeli Trump. He might have fancied himself a sort of "smart" version of Trump. Sucks to be him.

mysteryowl

(7,224 posts)
28. Your belief about Palestinians is incorrect and part of the propaganda.
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:37 PM
Nov 2023

I learn from friends that are Palestinian Americans.
I learn from Lebanese Americans that are like family to me.
I also learn from Rick Steves and other sources.



This video is from (8) eight years ago.

gulliver

(13,129 posts)
32. Is it against the law to be LGBTQ+ in Palestine?
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:49 PM
Nov 2023
https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/palestine/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine

What would Hamas do to non-straights living openly in Gaza? What does Iran (major Hamas backer) do to women who want to show their face in public?

People have good and bad sides. Adults make good and bad decisions. Most people want to see peace-loving Gazans freed from Hamas and given a state. It's good real estate as best I can tell. But Hamas/ISIS ruins everything for the Gazans. You can't allow a Dahmer-like psycho organization to live in your country. It seems unfair that people who are basically sane and just want to live their lives are burdened and cursed by the psychos in their midst, but that's life.

Cha

(294,767 posts)
45. Palestine criminalises same-sex sexual activity between men. Sentences include a maximum penalty of ten years'..
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 03:23 PM
Nov 2023
imprisonment. There is little evidence of the law being enforced in recent years, however LGBT people are regularly subjected to discrimination and violence.

https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/palestine/

And This..



TY

Response to Cha (Reply #45)

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
57. You are again...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 03:53 AM
Nov 2023

...equating 'Palestinians' with hamas.

You ask if Palestinians are rightwing then support that claim by showing that hamas is rightwing.

I've been reposting this a lot lately, but here it is again:

From foreignaffairs.com:

"The argument that the entire population of Gaza can be held responsible for Hamas’s actions is quickly discredited when one looks at the facts. Arab Barometer, a research network where we serve as co-principal investigators, conducted a survey in Gaza and the West Bank days before the Israel-Hamas war broke out. The findings, published here for the first time, reveal that rather than supporting Hamas, the vast majority of Gazans have been frustrated with the armed group’s ineffective governance as they endure extreme economic hardship. Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamas’s ideology, either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey respondents favored a two-state solution with an independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side.

(Full article: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas )

Think. Again.

(6,154 posts)
83. Good correction...
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:40 AM
Nov 2023

...those 10-13 year old polls are a much better indication of what Palestinians were like back then, than using hamas as an example of what Palestinians are like now.

Big Blue Marble

(4,968 posts)
38. There are right-wing extremists in the Israeli Government
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 01:34 PM
Nov 2023

because Netanyahu put them there.

And at least some of them are anti- LGBTQ+ rights.

"Smotrich: My voters don’t care if I’m a homophobe or fascist; my word is my bond"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-my-voters-dont-care-im-a-homophobic-fascist-but-my-word-is-my-word/

Your broad brush statement about Palestinians certainly could be seen as racist and
dehumanizing. Please read more about the history of these brave people who have lived
under brutal occupation for over fifty years.

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
98. Let us know when Gaza has a Gay Pride Parade
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:47 PM
Nov 2023
Tel Aviv Pride is a week-long series of events in Tel Aviv which takes place on the second week of June, as part of the international observance of Gay Pride Month. The key event, taking place on the Friday, is the Pride Parade itself which attracts over 250,000 attendees

edisdead

(1,826 posts)
30. I wonder...
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:45 PM
Nov 2023

I don’t think many or any people approve of either tactics.

But unfortunately I think many people understand that when Hamas did what they did, they did something so incredibly stupid that it is completely unsurprising that IDF responded the way they did. Albeit, it doesn’t sit well but, if I kick a hornets nest I don’t like that the hornets are going to sting me and everyone else around me but I am not surprised that it is going to happen.

Somebody fucked around and unfortunately far too many people are paying for that. Israel is a country that has been existing with the threat of people using words like annihilation, genocide, wipe off the face of the planet for their entire existence. They have live with threats from their neighbors forever. So when a group who declares that it is their intent to destroy them, invades them and commits horrible acts. Well did anyone expect a tit for tat response?

Israel is unfortunately making a bigger statement that to just Hamas. They are telling all of those around them that if you fuck with them they will respond harshly and without any mercy. I don’t like it. But I am not surprised by it one bit.

 

inthewind21

(4,616 posts)
66. Israel
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 09:54 AM
Nov 2023

responded exactly how Hamas wanted them to. They "understood" completely. Just like the colossal blunder the US made after 9-11. If you think the Israeli response is a surprise to Hamas, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona for sale!

snowybirdie

(5,145 posts)
31. A Putin Success!
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 12:47 PM
Nov 2023

He's managed to divide the good DUrs here who are against rtump and his deplorable ideas. Dividing Americans are his mission. Wrongs on both sides. Our nation can help them work toward peace without taking sides, and we should!

EX500rider

(10,357 posts)
99. No, thanks, I am not really interested in being "neutral" when one side is a terrorist group.
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:49 PM
Nov 2023

Were you "neutral" towards ISIS or the Taliban?

Polybius

(15,008 posts)
44. I know why, it's pretty obvious
Sun Nov 12, 2023, 03:07 PM
Nov 2023

But hopefully Israel's brutality will change a few minds. Doubtful though.

RockRaven

(14,622 posts)
51. It's a bit like asking why TFG was/is so popular despite being bigoted & incompetent.
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 02:58 AM
Nov 2023

He popular because the bloodthirstiness, the violent rhetoric, the bigotry -- it is the point which causes the support, not an "in spite of" situation.

Bibi faced MANY elections recently in which he could have been ousted and sidelined for good. He was not. Because what he spouts is what a (disturbingly) large portion of his nation's electorate want in a leader. Just like TFG.

Don't ask why people support him now, after this specific attack. Ask why people supported him prior to this attack, over and over and over again declining to take an offramp from what he was obviously doing.

JustAnotherGen

(31,523 posts)
67. I can address
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 10:06 AM
Nov 2023

When Hamas releases the American Israeli toddler they kidnapped in their pogrom.

That's a simple ask. How hard would it be for Hamas to do that?

Also - I think Netanyahu is an asshole. I'm not worshipping at his altar.

I just want that 3 year old American child back. The parents were killed - lets bring the kid home.

Response to mysteryowl (Original post)

ripcord

(4,954 posts)
79. Many say they support Palestinians but not Hamas
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 11:21 AM
Nov 2023

But they can't seem to understand when someone else says they support Israel but not Netanyahu.

 

Takealeft

(18 posts)
87. He's a national hero
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 12:35 PM
Nov 2023

He's a national hero for starters. He's bled for Israel more than once. We've elected two "leaders" in a row that both actively avoided military service while their peers were fighting and dying in Vietnam. I know it's hard to understand why he's respected if you're American.

manicdem

(385 posts)
92. He's doing what needs to be done
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 01:55 PM
Nov 2023

Ceasefires don't work as there have been many in the past broken by Hamas. There was a ceasefire in effect when Oct 7th happened. Israel tried negotiations giving lands to Palestine which have all failed. Israel pulled out of Gaza almost 20 years ago which seems to have made things worse. Israel constructed the Iron Dome so that they could defend themselves and not have to attack Gaza but that only partially worked. No other country wants to deal with the Palestinians.

The only option Israel has is to eliminate Hamas even with the high cost in both sides.

Joinfortmill

(13,937 posts)
95. Israel was attacked. It isn't about Netanyahu
Mon Nov 13, 2023, 04:37 PM
Nov 2023

It's about the attack and hostage taking. Once that's settled, we can talk about him. By the way, I think he's a goddamn crook.

KPN

(15,541 posts)
127. Fear? The same thing Trump uses to gain power
Fri Nov 17, 2023, 09:51 AM
Nov 2023

with others. Only in Israel, the fear is legitimate and rational — at least to the extent it stems from terrorist acts against Israel.

Given the circumstances and past history, I can understand the Israeli people being afraid. Here in the US on the other hand, the fear derives principally from prejudice and hate, from personal insecurities, from a deep and personal sense of inadequacy; the stuff from which bullies are created. Stuff that for me is much harder to appreciate and fully understand.

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