Show me the lie

[AntivaxHunters]

Because there isn't one.

[brush]

1. Absolutely correct. Maga domestic terrorists.

[Xavier Breath]

2. K & R. n/t

[Xavier Breath]

5. I swear I posted just once.

[Irish_Dem]

6. Most of the shooters are white males.

No one wants to talk about that demographic.

But let's send women to prison for accessing healthcare.

[Abolishinist]

9. Most of the shooters were white males? Really?

You didn't specify the type of shooting, but let's start with homicides.

According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Including%20homicide%20victims%20in%202019,their%20victim%20rate%20was%20similar.

[Irish_Dem]

11. You know we are talking mass shootings.

Disingenuous, ad hominem, straw man arguments and other logical fallacies denote a weak argument.

[Abolishinist]

12. Oh please, the pic in the OP is mindless click bait. Not even a link to

this 007 person.

So tell me, what is your definition of a mass shooting, and then please provide some statistical backup for your claim.

[Skittles]

13. here ya go

it's not hard to find

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

[Abolishinist]

15. So, what part of "what is your definition of a mass shooting"

do you not understand?

[Skittles]

16. do I have to do everything for you

actually, it seems like I do

“The term ‘mass killings’ means three or more killings in a single incident” that occur in a ‘public place’.”

OVER AND OUT

[Abolishinist]

19. You're not leaving, are you?

Good. Because, according to the link YOU posted, there have been 148 mass shootings in the U.S. over the last 41 years. In other words, an average of 3.6 per year. So let's say the average number of those who died was 10 per incident, which means an average of 36 people were killed each year in a "mass shooting'.

Now, compare those 36 deaths to the 16,000 or so homicides in 2019, and then ask me who is putting forth disingenuous, ad hominem, straw man arguments and other logical fallacies denoting a weak argument.

[AntivaxHunters]

23. Why are you arguing about this?

Not saying it's sus but it's sus.
Before you go any further, I ask you to please to read this. Thank you. [link:https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/white-supremacists-favorite-myths-about-black-crime-rates-take-another-hit-bjs-study|]

[NickB79]

14. The vast majority of gun homicides in the US aren't mass shootings

Something like 500 killed annually in mass shootings, vs 15,000 per year in "regular" homicides.

The violence of mass shootings is mostly done by white men. But the majority of gun homicides in the US is minority on minority crime and domestic violence. Both overwhelmingly by angry men.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

43. Wikipedia is not a reliable source

Furthermore, those are the supposed stats for homicide for which the assailant is known. You do realize offender information is not available for the majority of homicides...right?

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/29/1172775448/people-murder-unsolved-killings-record-high

If you don't know who an offender is in 60% or more of cases, how can anyone say that black people are the majority of offenders?

The best anyone can say is that studies *suggest* that black people make up the majority of offenders, but that is not quite an established fact.

[Celerity]

18. Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and October 2023, by shooter's race or ethnicity

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/



Survey time period

1982 to October 26, 2023

Supplementary notes

Since 2013, the source defines a mass shooting as any single attack in a public place with three or more fatalities, in line with the definition by the FBI. Before 2013, a mass shooting was defined as any single attack in a public place with four or more fatalities.

[Abolishinist]

24. So you go along with the idea there have been only

148 mass shooting in the last 41 years in the U.S., or an average of 3.6 per year. Perhaps 40 casualties per year.

That being the case, I don't understand why is this so high on so many people's radar?

[Celerity]

33. far more if you extended it to shot or killed

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-days-2023-database-shows/story?id=96609874

The U.S. has had at least 565 mass shootings so far this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive. This averages out to almost two mass shootings a day.

Mass shootings are defined as an incident in which four or more victims are shot or killed, according to the archive.

[Abolishinist]

36. I see. So you first claimed that there were, say, 4 mass shootings per year,

but NOW, since that didn't work out for you, you decide to jump it up to over 565 per year, depending on the definition of "mass shooting".

Do you not agree that 600+ per year vs. 4 is NOT a HUGE DIFFERENCE? And I would appreciate an explanation for your quick change in stats.

And yet, you were promoting the 3.6 per year with the poster of post #6, who said that

Most of the shooters are white males. No one wants to talk about that demographic.

Do you not agree that this conversation is about white males, and the mass shootings attributed to them? Because as a white male, I would appreciate some honesty about this. Too much to ask?

[Celerity]

37. I think that in terms of fatal mass shootings, the majority of the perps are white males in terms of total numbers,

not adjusted for percentage of population.

I did not 'jump' over to anything. I simply added more data.

You also seem (IMHO) to be downplaying mass shootings over the course of this colloquy.

Finally, what does your status as a 'white male' have to do with:

Because as a white male, I would appreciate some honesty about this. Too much to ask?

Do you feel like you have to defend your race and gender? Do you want some kind of affirmation from me?

Imagine (as a thought experiment in intersectional identities) being a mixed race black cis lesbian in an interracial marriage like I am and get back to me on broad-brush racial, sexual orientation, and gender stereotypes and sus 'group responsibly' games affecting your daily life (especially when I lived in the US, but still present at certain levels here in Sweden, and also London, where I grew up).

[Abolishinist]

38. Oh please... adding more data?

You went from 4 per year to 600 per year, you changed the entire dynamic. Make up your mind. If I were to put forth an argument on mass shootings, I would at the very least have the ability to defend my definition of such. You went from 4 per year to 600 per year in the blink of an eye, as though this was nothing. I would call this ("I did not 'jump' over to anything. I simply added more data)" a BIG jump.

Oh, and please tell me how I'm "downplaying" mass shootings. It seems to me that YOU and the other poster are the ones doing so, by putting forth the idea that there are only around four per year.

[Celerity]

42. You failed to answer my questions so I am done here.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

44. You're the one trying to define mass shooting

To what you want it to be, rather than how people who are well-versed in these things define them.

[dchill]

7. Truth.

[ShazzieB]

8. No lies detected here!

None whatsoever!

[Renew Deal]

17. OK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers

[AntivaxHunters]

25. We're not going to really do this

are we?

[Renew Deal]

27. Is this the part where you say it was hyperbole?

An exaggeration? Or wrong? I think you should go with exaggeration.

[AntivaxHunters]

29. Most mass shooters are white males

Ask Gabby Giffords about that.

I don't know why you'd argue against that.

[Renew Deal]

30. You asked us to show you the lie.

This is a lie, but we can be generous and call it an exaggeration: "The violence is coming from one demographic: alt-right radicalized men"

[AntivaxHunters]

35. It's correct

[link:https://www.axios.com/2023/02/23/mass-killings-extremism-adl-report-2022|]



[link:https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/oct/06/newsweek/are-white-males-responsible-more-mass-shootings-an/|]



[link:https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-supremacists-behind-over-80-extremism-related-us-murders-2022-2023-02-23/|]



[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/briefing/right-wing-mass-shootings.html|]

[Renew Deal]

39. So we went from "alll to all in 2022 or 80%?

At least you acknowledge being wrong.

[AntivaxHunters]

41. You're gaslighting at this point

Pretty strange I'm arguing with someone on a website dedicated to Democrats about the majority of gun deaths committed by far right weirdos. Pretty strange indeed. And nothing to back up your assertions?

[Renew Deal]

48. It's OK to admit you are wrong.

You asked to be shown the lie. This is a lie: "The violence is coming from one demographic: alt-right radicalized men"

This is the evidence you requested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers

The Dallas shooter was not alt-right.

Then you try to deflect by deflect by claiming it's the "majority" instead of "one." You've been shown the lie. The rest is intellectual dishonesty on your part. And I get why. It fits your world view. It doesn't make it less dishonest.

[edisdead]

20. Mass shooting or not. It's the guns.

Why are we finding ways to divide ourselves again?

[slightlv]

21. I'm assuming here...

but I guess the answer to you question is some people are terrified of giving up their guns, so they find any piece of an argument of which to disagree.

Me... it's the guns. And the testosterone. And the privilege.

[edisdead]

22. Ok let's assume we got rid of the mass shootings

And that would be a good thing!

There still how many tens of thousands of deaths that need not happen. There are solutions that reduce the gun violence that covers both types of violence.

I just don’t understand it.

It’s the guns.

[AntivaxHunters]

26. Oh there's been many studies

Know what else is fascinating?
Check this out.
Not only are a huge majority of mass shooters white males but do you notice how there's incredibly few women?

Boom! 💥

[edisdead]

28. I think you misread my post.

[edisdead]

32. You are leveling some serious charges against me

You are leveling some serious charges against me and following me around the forums. I would kindly ask you to stop.

Nowhere could one suggest that I am a white supremacist. Show me where I have said anything of the sort. You are out of control.

Where in discussing catholicism and its effects on society is there a way for you to connect white supremacy?

Seriosusly! In a discussion about catholicism you brought up it being your wifes culture. You used your wifes culture ti deflect from the ills that catholicism has brought upon the world in its history and then you act as though that topic was off limits? I will NOT be labeled xenophobic or white supremacist, you do NOT know me, my race, or those of my family and friends. You are taking liberties to assume something about me and you are DEAD WRONG!

[SoFlaBro]

34. Christian wackos, an oxymoron, are the cause of all of this shit in fucking America.

[The Wandering Harper]

40. the second amendment is just a cover

this is the real reason r's oppose any gun control

[sellitman]

45. But, but....

My Space Lasers!!!!!

[Archae]

46. The remark about black people is accurate, except...

That black couple who shot up a kosher grocery store, killing 6.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html