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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIsrael denies they caused the Hospital blast, and blames a Hamas/Islamic Jihad rocket misfire.
"The Foreign Ministry says firmly that the IDF did not conduct any operations in the area at the time of impact.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-publishes-video-it-says-proves-failed-rocket-launch-caused-gaza-hospital-blast/
Israel also says they will be releasing an intercepted conversation between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad which acknowledges a rocket misfire.
Whatever the case, Hamas or the Islamic Jihad will never admit if they are responsible, and use it as a tool to incite chaos.
It would be nice if a neutral party of experts could safely get into there to determine the blast's signature, but unlikely that will happen.
2naSalit
(87,209 posts)To tell the truth about this incident.
JohnSJ
(92,616 posts)AloeVera
(1,114 posts)True. But definitely don't trust IDF on this.
The sheer size of the explosion and the number of people killed point to an Israeli Air strike or several even.
Huge difference between dinky Hamas rockets and fancy bombs the Israelis use.
IDF is not exactly a paragon of truth-telling but in this case there's not enough propaganda in the world.
NickB79
(19,321 posts)They've been armed with much more powerful ones by Iran in recent years.
https://observers.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231013-inside-the-arsenal-iranian-sourced-weapons-used-in-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-s-israel-assault
PCIntern
(25,723 posts)Next to a hospital could be problematic.
BootinUp
(47,265 posts)is it definite that something hit an ammo dump?
Fuck.
PCIntern
(25,723 posts)AloeVera
(1,114 posts)But they'll come up with something. They always do. Greatest(?) PR machine in the world next to the Republicans.
wnylib
(21,944 posts)There was a Hamas anmi dump next to the hospital, which amplified the effect of the hit.
It is not beneath Hamas to kill its own people in an attack like that in order to gain world support. Not saying that's what happened. Just saying that it is a possibility.
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)The simplest answer is usually correct.
One side says there was a misfire of a Hamas rocket, which then happened to land in an ammo dump which just happened to be next to a hospital.
The other side says Israel dropped the 8000th (?) bomb on Gaza, this time on a hospital.
Which do you think is more likely to be true?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)
This one.
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)Look, I get suspicious too about people who have wildly different views. I mean I loathe the Repubs and Trump supporters. As I'm sure you do too or you wouldn't be here.
I am very agitated about the suffering of the people in Gaza. I was the same way the week before about the Hamas atrocities against Israelis.
I am anti-war, anti-terrorism, pro-human rights and I want to see a solution to the Palestinian's plight. I see this war in a different way than most here. It is already leading to so much suffering and may light up the whole region or worse. Creating more breeding grounds for terrorism and reducing everyone's security.
If you see that as an "agenda" fine. I see it as speaking my truth and I hope I will be allowed to do that.
manicdem
(409 posts)I don't think it hit an ammo dump as the explosion was too small and there were no secondary explosions.
Or it'd have to be a very very small ammo dump.
DemocraticPatriot
(4,571 posts)Got any documentation, other than hearsay?
HAMAS isn't exactly a "paragon of truth-telling", either....
BootinUp
(47,265 posts)womanofthehills
(8,838 posts)The World Health Organization (WHO) on Saturday strongly condemned Israels repeated order for 22 hospitals in northern Gaza to be evacuated, describing it as a death sentence for the sick and injured.
With around 2,000 desperately ill patients inside their wards, WHO said the forced evacuation of both patients and health workers will further worsen the current humanitarian and public health catastrophe.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142347
BootinUp
(47,265 posts)I don't know if that is what happened either, but I think it is a good possibility.
question everything
(47,689 posts)are from hospitals precisely for this reason.
LeftInTX
(25,986 posts)They just wanted everyone out of harm's way.
Why would they intentionally bomb hospitals. They know it's a war crime, so why would they say, "Hey we're gonna commit a war crime"?
yagotme
(3,064 posts)a command center, a missile launch site, or, even, an ammo dump.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)If they are in range they probably have radar footage of the missile launch.
Mz Pip
(27,479 posts)Hamas gains a lot if they can blame it on Israel.
JustAnotherGen
(32,169 posts)This is not good.
mitch96
(13,964 posts)With the US aircraft carrier off the coast it has some pretty powerful long range radar that is probably tracking every plane and rocket that is in the air. No plane? it's a rocket. No rocket but planes? Hummmm. What was aloft when this happened?
A thought..
m
Cha
(298,496 posts)Fucking HAMAS Butchers.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)I posted an Al Jazeera link earlier.
Heres some GIS folks who did a lot of geo locating of the rocket trails etc. Not that it will matter. Israel will be blamed. The Arab states have already decided which makes it near impossible to change their lies
Link to tweet
?s=46
Maru Kitteh
(28,354 posts)are responsible for all those innocent lives. Hamas must really hate Palestinians.
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)July 2014. Gaza hospital was shelled by Israel.4 dead, 40 injured.
Don't know if they tried to blame Hamas.
edhopper
(33,751 posts)Just to spread anti-Israel propaganda?
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)As I said in my first comment on Saturday:
I am aghast and sick to my stomach at the facile responses here in regards to the fate of the 2+ million civilians as well as the ignorance of their ongoing plight and oppression.
I have lurked on DU for years and years and consider it my first source of information on U.S. politics. I had agreed with most of the thinking and views of people here. DU was my refuge, where I could find solace and comfort in the face of the madness of Trumpism.
Now I just don't know if this really is my tribe or some alien species masquerading as such. I don't recognize posters I have admired for a long time. I am heartbroken."
I have different views on this ONE issue. One I care deeply about. I joined because I could not stay silent.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)
And, so far, it appears to be a rocket fired off by a wing of Hamas.
Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #26)
Name removed Message auto-removed
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)BTW, what toppings do you like on your pizza?
And do you prefer Tombstone Pizza?
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)Have a nice night.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)AloeVera
(1,114 posts)carpetbagger
(4,398 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)Moosepoop
(1,926 posts)It says a hospital in Gaza was bombed in July 2014. It does not say by whom. The ICRC admonishes "all parties" in the conflict regarding medical sites and personnel.
Nice try, though.
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)The Red Cross is non political. They do not name the offenders.
Here is another link from MSM. Clearly stating the shelling was by Israel.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/another-gaza-hospital-hit-israeli-strike-four-dead-40-hurt-n161086
You see
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,611 posts)It doesn't say whether or not Israel is responsible.
AloeVera
(1,114 posts)Xolodno
(6,428 posts)The Arab populace around Israel has already made up its mind. When the Israeli government demanded the hospitals to be evacuated they already telegraphed that they were military targets. Even if they weren't, it didn't look good on the world stage.
BootinUp
(47,265 posts)an Israeli weapon that it was entirely unintentional.
This whole thing is going sideways. But what did anyone expect with Netanyahu in charge.
Xolodno
(6,428 posts)WW1 happened because it was a domino effect of alliances. We have something similar in the ME and everything could quickly fall apart if the wrong decisions are made.
I'm reminded the Russian Revolution was started by bread riots. Turned out there was plenty of bread, but two nobles were haggling over how much each should get of the profits, so they refused to release the bread. Stupid little things like this can have dramatic consequences.
manicdem
(409 posts)The video of the explosion:
From the video it shows the explosion is small. The explosion looks big and far away, however the cameraman is pretty close to the impact site as you don't hear the audio lag from seeing the explosion to the sound that would say it's far away. Sounds travels at 1,100 feet per second, so cameraman was probably around 100 feet away since the blast and sound occur at the same time. The Israeli video of the damage does support the small explosion.
Also Hamas rockets contain 10 to 50lbs of explosives for a small explosion like that, with minimal damage to the vehicles and buildings. A typical Israeli bomb contains 200 to 1,000lbs of explosives which would flatten the area and leave a crater. Israel has a smaller SDB guided bombs now that has 50lbs of explosives. But why would they hit a parking lot? Does't appear to be an ammo cache as the explosion would've been much larger if it was.
Also a small explosion like that wouldn't kill 500 people like Hamas claims. Maybe up to 50 people max if it hit a crowd.
manicdem
(409 posts)Has anyone actually seen pictures of the demolished hospital building? I can't find any. You'd think something like that would make headlines and be plastered everywhere. And theres videos of the explosion happening, but no pictures of the hospital.
If there are no pictures, then why is everyone saying it actually happened, to include the UN?
manicdem
(409 posts)A lot of Middle East leaders are going to be embarrassed when they realize they've been duped. Even the UN Secretary General. How does that even happen?
sarisataka
(19,073 posts)But those who were not duped are accused of supporting genocide of the Palestinians
Recursion
(56,582 posts)We've spent 12 hours arguing about who destroyed a building that is still standing
FVZA_Colonel
(4,096 posts)The IDF is not trustworthy
Happy Hoosier
(7,526 posts)The guys who place miliatary assets in an under hospitals and schools are trustworthy?
C'mon....
FVZA_Colonel
(4,096 posts)While giving proof of their claims other than their own word.