Israeli President Says There Are No Innocent Civilians In Gaza

[ForgoTheConsequence]

As Israel engages in a massive air campaign ahead of an anticipated full-scale ground invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,200 people dead.
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-gaza-isaac-herzog_n_65295ee8e4b03ea0c004e2a8

[WarGamer]

1. Not a good look...

This quote just made headlines across the Muslim world...

Just made Hamas happy.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

4. Yes, that's bad

And it's simply not true, that there are no innocents in Gaza. Unreal.

[Ms. Toad]

53. There are at least two on DU who believe this.

Probably more.

[hlthe2b]

75. Yup...

unbelievably so...

[Dirty Socialist]

2. Time for Herzog to step down eom

[maxsolomon]

3. What are the odds that Gazans could have 'risen up' against Hamas?

Possible; not likely.

[LexVegas]

5. Yeah, they're totally outnumbered. nt

[maxsolomon]

17. The Iranian authorities are outnumbered.

How's that rising up going?

It's hard to overthrow an armed, violent group. It's not impossible.

[2naSalit]

28. +1

[ForgoTheConsequence]

6. Using this logic we are all responsible for the Iraq war and Vietnam.

[boston bean]

7. We weren't as a nation?

[ExciteBike66]

9. Even the kids?

[boston bean]

11. Everyone.

[Qutzupalotl]

14. Even people who spoke out and protested?

Then what was the point?

[boston bean]

19. It would not be a distinction I would make. It is a distinction of the state

that we committed terrorism upon.

The innocent citizens are those that had an act of terrorism committed against them.

The state that committed it and all of its people are usually the ones to be considered responsible.

[Celerity]

31. No (and I so often agree with you btw, so I am surprised to to see you claim this)

[boston bean]

35. Claim what. Entire nations hate us. They hate us citizens.

Is this not true?

[Celerity]

39. Non sequitur. Just because someone blames something doesn't at all mean that the something

is to blame in reality.

Also, there is no nation where every single citizen hates the US, not even in North Korea or Afghanistan, let alone Iran or Russia.

[boston bean]

41. Again, it is not me that is saying this is right. It is the way things are.

And you know it. When Japan declared war on the Us did they only do it on certain US citizens?

[Celerity]

45. Again you are moving the goalposts, you did not bring up other nations in your original posts.

you yourself said all Americans were responsible, which is bollocks IMHO, and what I replied to (the 'everyone' post)

you said nothing about what other nations did

[boston bean]

47. Even with your screenshots of my posts I don't see any goal posts moving.

They weren’t needed btw. But thanks.

[Celerity]

48. All I can do is react to what you post, I cannot read your mind. You made clear statements and I

replied and disagreed.

You then, ex post facto, brought in additional things that were not stated by you in the original series of posts that led to my initial reply.

That is classic goalpost moving.

[boston bean]

52. No I did not. I was consistent.

[Celerity]

64. Simple question. Do you still believe every US citizen is responsible for the Iraq war & Vietnam?

You said that here:



and that's what I originally replied to:

[boston bean]

66. Never said I did.

[Celerity]

67. LOL

done here

[boston bean]

68. Ha ha

Me too.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

25. So you think we deserve to be attacked?

[boston bean]

29. I think collectively people don't make a distinction between the nation and its citizens.

I believe that most when they speak of the bad we have done, they don;t just mean our government. Because our government comes from us.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

33. Not when an election is illegally stolen.

[boston bean]

36. Not sure about that.

I don’t believe gwb won the first time.

But still all of America was blamed for the disastrous Iraq war. We were all judged, as Americans.

[electric_blue68]

70. What? I have made distinctions between a country's government and it's people

In various conflicts I've seen through the decades, and others make that distinction, too.

It seems and I say "seems" that you could imply from those observing the USA that "all of us" are ?responsible for drumphf, then?

[boston bean]

73. Would we not be responsible for trump

and the actions he takes, in the eyes of other countries. Would we all not feel the consequence.

Hell, i felt it for the last seven years. Our allies still don't trust us fully.

[madaboutharry]

8. The Huff Post headline is an example of framing the narrative.

What he said might not be true, but he didn’t say that.

[RockRaven]

20. He said is is not true that civilians were not involved. Are you saying that "innocent" and "not

involved" are sufficiently different in meaning that using one in the place of the other constitutes a misrepresentation of what he said?

[Sympthsical]

22. The headline is very intentionally trying to give an impression

And the anti-Israel folks are about to dine out on it.

[Dirty Socialist]

23. What did he really say?

Links?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

26. Let's see the real quote, then.

[madaboutharry]

38. I read the article.

Nowhere in the article is that quoted.

I am not defending his comments. Huff Post used an inflammatory headline as if those were his exact words and they are not.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

56. The quote was verbatim.

Re-read it.

[madaboutharry]

61. The words "...There Are No Innocent Civilians In Gaza"

are not quoted in the article. Huff Post put words in his mouth in its headline.

I’m done with this thread.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

63. That's not a quote.

This is the quote:

“ It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,”

An entire nation, no exclusions. Please don’t let you’re blind hate turn into bigoted brain worms.

[Yavin4]

10. The people of Gaza are just like the people of North Korea

They were born and raised in the darkness and cannot even fathom what is the light. They do not have the ability to overthrow their leaders. They're being used as martyrs to manipulate regional powers primarily and global powers secondarily. Literally Hamas is hiding behind babies and children and using them for global sympathy and support.

[obamanut2012]

12. Well said, Yavin

[crickets]

43. Agreed. Well said. nt

[ZonkerHarris]

65. The people of Gaza think that every Israeli is an enemy because

Every citizen has been their military enemy, because of Israel’s conscription rules so that every citizen has served in the Armed Forces and thus they are all veterans with blood on their hands, according to the Palestinians


I do not think either side is correct in their assessments of their opponents

[Qutzupalotl]

13. As soon as a baby is born in Gaza, it's responsible for Hamas.

What utter reprehensible bullshit.

Collective punishment is a war crime.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

57. Shhhh...

Israel can do no wrong. Brown people bad!

[EarnestPutz]

15. I think he misspoke when he said "nation" and not tribe.

[jrthin]

16. He's insane. nt

[Sympthsical]

18. People aren't going to read the article, I bet

Particularly this part:

When a reporter asked Herzog to clarify whether he meant to say that since Gazans did not remove Hamas from power “that makes them, by implication, legitimate targets,” the Israeli president claimed, “No, I didn’t say that.”

[maxsolomon]

24. But he did imply it - and that's what the reporter said.

It's very tricky to talk about war.

One of the reasons you saw Obama speak so slowly and deliberately, so that he didn't say something he didn't mean to. You could see the wheels turning. Biden is careful that way, too.

[Sympthsical]

32. Agree that people should be careful of their words

Speaking off the cuff or imprecisely can have serious unintentional consequences.

I tend to more agree with his meaning than not. Some are trying to pretend that Hamas is this totally separate entity from Gaza because they think it morally reinforces their anti-Israel sentiments. They're just there, and no one wants them there.

This is a clearly false argument on its face. Hamas does have popular support (the degree of which is up for debate, but I think it's at least the majority). If people want peace, not revving up the genocide parade should at least be step one.

And he's speaking to the truth of that situation. Hamas isn't an isolated entity. It's embedded in the society, in the territory, and rooting them out is going to be very, very difficult on account.

However, as the man clarified, that does not make civilians legitimate targets, and collateral damage should be minimized as much as one can when waging a war against a terrorist entity.

[Celerity]

21. Sadly, this is hardly surprising for anyone who follows the conflict.

[AntiFascist]

27. Why is Netanyahu being blamed for propping up Hamas in the past?

This is not a conspiracy theory, it is being reported all over MSNBC, The Times of Israel, Haaretz... Wake up!

[ForgoTheConsequence]

34. It doesn't fit the narrative.

Netanyahu was afraid of a secular Arab nationalist regime more than a fundamentalist religious group so of course he helped fund Hamas. It’s similar to how we funded Al Qaeda because they were against the Soviets.

[AntiFascist]

37. Exactly...

in fact it was wealthy Evangelicals who helped fund the secret CIA war against the "godless" Soviets.

When you have right-wing religious zealots in control of governments on both sides, this is the result. God only knows what hell we will be faced with if Christian Dominionists take control of US government!

[EX500rider]

40. "It's similar to how we funded Al Qaeda because they were against the Soviets."

Except that didn't happen.

AQ was founded in late 1988.
July 1987, the withdrawal of Soviet troops from the country was announced.

The US helped fund the Mujaheddin.

[AntiFascist]

49. Osama bin Laden functioned as a lieutenant in the war against the Soviets...

When the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, the US pulled out as well leaving a bombed out nation, a lot weapons, and a vacuum to be filled by Jihadists. Technically we did not fund Al Qaeda, but it arose from the ashes of the conflict we created.

[EX500rider]

50. We created? not, the Soviets did and the Mujahedeen had many backers, Pakistan, Saudi etc

[AntiFascist]

51. According to the former managing editor of the Washington Post...

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/ghost-wars-the-secret-history-the-cia-afghanistan-and-bin-laden-the-soviet-invasion-to

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

Author Steve Coll, managing editor of The Washington Post, discusses the findings of his latest book on the CIA's involvement in the covert wars in Afghanistan that fueled Islamic militancy and gave rise to bin Laden's al Qaeda. To view the video feed of the discussion, please click on the "Event Summary" link below.
...

As described in the book and film based on the book, "Charlie Wilson's War", $1 billion was raised to provide weapons, etc. for that war. That was a lot more money back then to help pay for weapons.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

54. Thanks for the semantics.

I don’t need a history lesson from a pro Reagan democrat.

[EX500rider]

59. Where'd you see one of those? Funding started for the Mujahedeen under Carter

[obamanut2012]

42. The Taliban

[T_A]

30. The RightWing Likud Is SICK

[Martin68]

44. That is absolutely contrary to international law and agreements, as well as UN resolutions.

But Israel has scoffed at, ignored, and intentionally broken international law to get what it wants: more land on which to build settlements for Israelis. Hamas broke international law when it attacked and killed civilians, and Israel is doing the same when it kills civilians, whether our not the "intended target" was a military one. I am equally sickened by the toll on civilians caused by US attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[ripcord]

46. They want their hostages back or to know what happened to them

Israel has said the attacks will continue until their hostages are returned or them know what happened to them, seems like an understandable position.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

62. It's not a pissing contest.

But the fact that you’re making it a football game is morally bankrupt and grotesque.

[ecstatic]

58. Wow. By that logic I guess we should be nuked too.

In the US we are forced into minority rightwing rule. Half of us are fighting so hard to stop it but there's only so much we can do, even with the best of resources. I can't imagine it being easier to overthrow rogue /militants when living in poverty.

[NowsTheTime]

71. Simply B.S. akin to war propaganda

[electric_blue68]

72. Geeeeeebz, what BS, IP Herzog

👎

[Autumn]

74. He is attemting to justify what will happen to himself. He is dead wrong.

He will be miserable in his soul for the rest of his life and he will be responsible for his misery.