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H2O Man

(73,671 posts)
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:27 AM Oct 2023

Earth Blues

" Oh, say can you see, it's really such a mess
Every inch of earth is a fighting nest
Giant pencil and lipstick tube-shaped things
Continue to rain and cause screaming pain
And the Arctic stains
From silver blue to bloody red ....."
-- Jimi Hendrix; 1983 (A Merman I Should Turn To Be)


I started to try to write this on Saturday night. I continued yesterday, right into today's early morning hours. At first, I thought of opening with Bob Marley's song "War," the lyrics coming from a speech that Haile Selassia delivered in October of 1963 at a U.N. Conference on World Peace. This was just weeks after the Organization of African Unity (OAF) was founded in the Ethiopian capital city. Older forum members will remember how this meeting influenced Malcolm X, including his founding of a non-religious organization in the US to advance human rights.

The lyric regarding a willingness to fight "if necessary" presented a stumbling block for me. While I do believe that "violence" can be justified -- and sometimes necessary -- in the context of self-defense -- it generally can only result in a temporary peace.

I was getting ready to head out to a reunion of friends from college when I began hearing the news about the terrible violence in the Middle East. It became a topic of discussion among the twelve of us still alive at the reunion. One of my old friends has, over the decades, gone from being liberal to a rather conservative christian pastor. He viewed these events in the context of his understanding of the books of the bible.

I tend to view it differently. I have a cousin in Ireland, who during "the Troubles" was forced with his family to see his brother executed in their living room. I was in touch with this cousin until about a year ago. He quit drinking about once a day, though I am unaware of him ever going 24 hours without drinking. As a young man, I was in favor of fighting against the foreign forces on the island. Today I understand that in such conflicts, no one wins and eveyone loses.

By the time I got home, the news reports told of things becoming much worse. To quote Robert Burns' poem from 1784, "man's injumanity to man makes countless thousands mourn." And Martin Luther King, Jr., " Violence begets violence; hate begets hate; and toughness begets a greater toughness. It is all a descending spiral, and the end is destruction — for everybody. Along the way of life, someone must have enough sense and morality to cut off the chain of hate."

I do not pretend to know "the answer" in the Middle East, beyond "stop the violence." But how? Nothing has worked well thus far. It is impossible if both sides do not recognize the other's right to exist, as human beings, and to exists as a nation-state. Yet attempts to make that a reality have not been successful. What we are witnessing has a long history.

The scenes being shown on the news are heart-breaking. It is difficult to watch, and is surely causing great pain and suffering for innocent human beings. When families lose a member (or morethan one) to this type of extreme violence, it causes trauma. There are three types of actual trauma: acute, chronic, and complex. These will haunt people through generations.

Even watching the news reports brings about emotional responses. There are many good people in the United States with friends and relatives in that section of the earth. That likely includes here on this forum. So I understand how people feel, and understand and respect that many think more violence will provide protection, however brief or long, from the next round of violence.

It's a tough topic to discuss, including with friends. Older forum members will recall in late 2006, when former president Jimmy Carter published a book on this. While I disagreed with the part where he at least appeared to say oppression can justify terrorism, I thought it was an important book. I also think that Israel has a right to exist, without being attacked.

I do not know a great deal about Gaza. But I read an OP/thread about the percentage of people there support Hamas? One response -- by one of the people I've liked and respected here for many years -- responded that wasn't a valid measure, because about one-half the population were children. I understand that measure as extremely important. My primary concern is for the children of Israel and of Gaza. Thus, I will end with a quote from Albert Camus:

"I share with you the same revulsion from evil. But I do not share your hope, and I continue to struggle against this universe in which children suffer and die."

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Earth Blues (Original Post) H2O Man Oct 2023 OP
Thoughtful as always malaise Oct 2023 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Oct 2023 #3
K&R redqueen Oct 2023 #2
Thank you! H2O Man Oct 2023 #4
Peace? What a cool concept LiberaBlueDem Oct 2023 #5
It would seem H2O Man Oct 2023 #6
We've been thru a lot LiberaBlueDem Oct 2023 #7
Thoughtful, perfect Saoirse9 Oct 2023 #8
Thanks! H2O Man Oct 2023 #10
To cut the chain of hate requires good people. Kid Berwyn Oct 2023 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Oct 2023 #11

LiberaBlueDem

(936 posts)
5. Peace? What a cool concept
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 11:58 AM
Oct 2023

About to go back to not even being concerned or even give it another thought --- this Middle East problem. America attacked many countries there and gave money to others and where has that got us? More blood and violence.

Even here on DU has been a blood thirsty response to all of this and I can not stand it. All war OPs should be in their own place so peace loving people can just put in the trash where it belongs.

H2O Man

(73,671 posts)
6. It would seem
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 01:18 PM
Oct 2023

to be a concept that has gone largely out of style in the US, including here. Society is becoming saturated with fear, hate, and rage.

LiberaBlueDem

(936 posts)
7. We've been thru a lot
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 01:28 PM
Oct 2023

I had the idea that peace was just around the corner, but it seems war has overcome the minds of many. But, hey, the US does spend a $999 billion a year on defense, so I guess society is just following along?

Saoirse9

(3,687 posts)
8. Thoughtful, perfect
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 03:58 PM
Oct 2023

The worst horror of the multiple horrors in Israel is that children are suffering. The innocents should never ever have to suffer like this. I've had to stay away from news and twitter because I can't deal with those images.

I have an old friend who lives in Israel who was at his son's wedding there when the fighting broke out. So I couldn't reach him and feared the worst for about 48 hours.

Anyway he's fine and swears that he is in a safe area far away from the atrocities. He refuses to leave. Which I hate. And I have no control there.

H2O Man

(73,671 posts)
10. Thanks!
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 06:42 PM
Oct 2023

My (ex-) sister-in-law, who I am very close friends with, lived in Israel for years. Also, from family history confirmed by DNA tests, my paternal grandmother was part Jewish. Around the time she married grandpa, one of his sisters married a Jewish man. The family was horrified that these siblings -- both immigrants in the 1800s -- had married outside the One True Faith! Grandma learned to say she was 100% Irish, though she wasn't. The fellow who married into the family changed his last name, so that he got work for his law practice.

I also have Ukrainian blood, from my maternal side. These wars bother me, perhaps some from that, but also as a human being. Sp when a good friend posted today that he is tempted to go to fight to protect Israel, I got it. Yes, I do. During early coverage of the war in Ulraine, an old friend and I shared coffee, and said we should go. It's a shame it's not old men fighting wars, especially those they promote. I realize that I would just be in the way. But I felt that emotion, and that influenced my thinking.

What happened in Israel is unacceptable.

Kid Berwyn

(15,043 posts)
9. To cut the chain of hate requires good people.
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 04:15 PM
Oct 2023

I'm with you and Camus today. The murder of innocent people is wrong. And when one person suffers, all who care suffer. Researchers have found (and confirmed what good parents do naturally) what ALL parents need to do to raise good kids:



Young children who are close to their parents are more likely to grow up kind, helpful and 'prosocial'

Date:October 9, 2023
Source: University of Cambridge

Summary: A new study indicates a strong connection between early parent-child relationships and the likelihood that children will grow up to display socially-desirable characteristics like kindness and empathy. Using data from 10,000 people in the UK, researchers found that children who have a warm and loving bond with their parents at age three are not only less prone to mental health difficulties, but display heightened ‘prosociality’ by the time they reach adolescence. This refers to socially-desirable behaviors such as kindness, empathy, helpfulness, generosity and volunteering. Conversely, children whose early relationships with their parents were difficult or abusive were less likely to develop prosocial habits. The researchers argue that this strengthens the case for developing targeted policies to support young families within which it may be difficult to establish close early parent-child relationships.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/10/231009191705.htm



One of the greatest people to ever live on how to do so:

Cellist Pablo Casals greets first lady Jacqueline Kennedy after a concert given in the White House in November 1961 in honor of Governor Luis Muñoz Marín of Puerto Rico, to the left of President Kennedy in the photo.



Each second we live in a new and unique moment of the universe, a moment that never was before and will never be again.

And what do we teach our children in school? We teach them that two and two makes four, and that Paris is the capital of France.

When will we also teach them what they are? We should say to each of them:

Do you know what you are? You are a marvel. You are unique. In all of the world there is no other child exactly like you. In the millions of years that have passed there has never been another child like you.

And look at your body — what a wonder it is! Your legs, your arms, your cunning fingers, the way you move! You may become a Shakespeare, a Michelangelo, a Beethoven.

You have the capacity for anything. Yes, you are a marvel.

And when you grow up, can you then harm another who is, like you, a marvel?



You must cherish one another. You must work — we all must work — to make this world worthy of its children.

— Pablo Casals

H2O Man

(73,671 posts)
11. Thank you!
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 06:59 PM
Oct 2023

My grandson (and his father) just left for their home. He's a little over a year old, and visits me an average of five afternoons while his father trains. (During covid, several rooms in my house turned into his boxing gym.) I look at him and some of his little friends & relatives, and I really do not understand what type of sick animal harms them?

It appears that governments haven't made peace with various treaties and business arrangements. Militaries send young adults to kill or be killed. Innocent people suffer and die.

Here's a version of this song I like:

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