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AntivaxHunters

(3,234 posts)
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:51 PM Oct 2023

Holy shit could it have been Trump?

Last edited Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:33 PM - Edit history (1)

I just watched this video on TikTok [link:https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8rDmN93/|]

I almost fell out of my chair.
It brings up the point that it may have been Trump who provided the Intel info on Israel's "Iron Dome".

Reference [link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html|]

Check this out, here's the breakdown.

It's assumed that Hamas was given info & Intel on Israel's defense by Iran. Iran would've been given info by Russia. The question is who told Russia.

Remember last year in August during the search at Mar-A-Lago, one of the things Trump had according to the media was the nuclear capabilities and defense capabilities of one of our allies. For months after this was found out there were people all over the media saying how this information was about Israel.

Holyyyyyyyyy shit!

153 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Holy shit could it have been Trump? (Original Post) AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 OP
Sorry, you lost me at "I watched a video on Tik Tok" brooklynite Oct 2023 #1
I wasn't aware this was about you AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #3
Duh! The bigger question is the scary one - How good are our THAID & Patriot systems womanofthehills Oct 2023 #150
Forbes -"How Hamas Leveraged Cheap Rockets And Small Drones To Ambush Israel" womanofthehills Oct 2023 #152
The fact that it is out on tik doesn't matter. MOMFUDSKI Oct 2023 #6
"Nobody has any proof, of course" brooklynite Oct 2023 #17
How about WaPo? AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #21
Except that... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #22
Why do you hate Tik Tok? BluesRunTheGame Oct 2023 #28
I can't answer for brooklynite, but I'll answer for myself. ShazzieB Oct 2023 #45
I was joking... BluesRunTheGame Oct 2023 #49
Oh, okay! ShazzieB Oct 2023 #52
Yes there are KS Toronado Oct 2023 #74
OMG! calimary Oct 2023 #138
See post #140 PortTack Oct 2023 #142
Maybe not. Try this: brakester Oct 2023 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author brakester Oct 2023 #31
Yep...but speculation breeds comments...could be true but conspiracy isn't a liberal thing...I hope. Alexander Of Assyria Oct 2023 #101
it shouldn't be Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #117
Whether one likes TikTok or not it is every bit as reliable a news source as twitter or FB PortTack Oct 2023 #140
Need better intel than a video on TikTok. Ocelot II Oct 2023 #2
It's interesting as hell AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #5
Lot of video intel on wars daily here from tube etc...it's all comment crap. Alexander Of Assyria Oct 2023 #102
See post #140 PortTack Oct 2023 #141
Yes, quite possible. Trump was stealing classified information for very specific reasons. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #4
Jeez this may run very deep AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #7
John Brennan, ex CIA head, says we have to assume Trump got all the top classified info. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #10
Wouldn't be the first time, would it? FalloutShelter Oct 2023 #12
Exactly, Trump giving up classified info right out of the gate. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #15
Like 2 billion ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2023 #149
Exactly like $2 billion. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #153
Well MOMFUDSKI Oct 2023 #53
Crap bdamomma Oct 2023 #63
crude oil prices maliaSmith Oct 2023 #104
You can blame it all on Trump womanofthehills Oct 2023 #115
I think the 2 bil Jared got was from Russia Captain Zero Oct 2023 #79
But Trump would have given Putin whatever he wanted? Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #119
Saudis were the conduit Captain Zero Oct 2023 #124
All of tfg's crimes run deep directly or indirectly housecat Oct 2023 #103
yup... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #25
Remember Trumps whipped dog look True Blue American Oct 2023 #58
Putin did not spend all that money and time installing Trump into the WH for fun. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #66
Yes! True Blue American Oct 2023 #85
We know he loved to show off to random guests at MAL. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #94
He likely has been stealing them from day one. He's been a terrorist toddler without supervision housecat Oct 2023 #107
🤔 dweller Oct 2023 #8
Bingo! AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #11
Just linked the WaPo article at #12 FalloutShelter Oct 2023 #13
+1 mitch96 Oct 2023 #76
Turn him over to Israel shelshaw Oct 2023 #9
He couldn't do it alone ... he had to have had some help dweller Oct 2023 #14
tRump IS a devil. pandr32 Oct 2023 #18
What exactly WAS kushner doing... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #23
That's a mighty good question. calimary Oct 2023 #42
Helsinki Conference True Blue American Oct 2023 #64
And Kush was acting rapidly in the waning days Captain Zero Oct 2023 #127
one of many was covering up of bdamomma Oct 2023 #128
Suadi-suckup Jared has been awfully quiet. C_U_L8R Oct 2023 #16
Wasn't it Jared who was charged to work for peace in the Middle East?? Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #62
I expect the right wing noise machine to tell us that this wouldn't have happened under Trump progressoid Oct 2023 #80
I was being sarcastic since we know he championed the Saudis, but I have no doubt that Republicans Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #81
Of course, ten minutes after I posted I saw this gem progressoid Oct 2023 #82
Thanks! And I posted a couple of Republicans making those bizarre claims, too. Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #83
Is it treason yet. malaise Oct 2023 #19
I got a very sick feeling deep brakester Oct 2023 #72
Feel the same. I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2023 #78
I hear you malaise Oct 2023 #93
Welcome to DU housecat Oct 2023 #106
they've been here since 2017 Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #118
sorry I must have responded to another post housecat Oct 2023 #126
There's just no way that two-timing, two-scooping, two-weeking, double-downing, double-chinned slob Blue Owl Oct 2023 #109
that's an interesting hypothesis WhiteTara Oct 2023 #20
Remember that purge of US and Nato spies in Russia a few years ago? That needs investigating. TheBlackAdder Oct 2023 #24
Something About This Whole Attack By Hamas ..... global1 Oct 2023 #26
It does Delphinus Oct 2023 #44
Cui bono? I wouldn't rule out a false flag - sounds absurd, but here's why I ask the question. TheRickles Oct 2023 #54
No. PCIntern Oct 2023 #67
Israel could have leveled Gaza anytime in the past 55 years, yet it hasn't elias7 Oct 2023 #90
Yes. Points not made often enough. marybourg Oct 2023 #96
From WaPo May 15, 2017 cyclonefence Oct 2023 #27
It looks like we have a working hypothesis! AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #30
That last sentence is chilling. dmr Oct 2023 #36
Ummm.... MorbidButterflyTat Oct 2023 #133
Wouldn't there be a record gab13by13 Oct 2023 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author Pas-de-Calais Oct 2023 #33
Traitor for sure if found true Pas-de-Calais Oct 2023 #34
Orange guy has a phone and MOMFUDSKI Oct 2023 #57
May 16, 2017, NY Times, "Israel Said to Be Source of Secret Intelligence Trump Gave to Russians" Kablooie Oct 2023 #35
Like peeling away the layers of an onion . . . Aussie105 Oct 2023 #37
Remember when Jared pushed for a secret direct phone line to Putin, outside the Whitehouse? JoseBalow Oct 2023 #38
Wouldn't surprise me. 2naSalit Oct 2023 #39
Has Trump made a statement about the attack on Israel yet? Raven Oct 2023 #40
Yes, he has whopis01 Oct 2023 #92
I tecall a 60 Minutes feature on Bibi and Puti being besties SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2023 #41
Would not be a stretch to say attack benefits Bibi. Sneederbunk Oct 2023 #121
The way Hamas circumvented Iron Dome was simply by launching overwhelming numbers of rockets. LudwigPastorius Oct 2023 #43
This. I read this too. Occam's Razor people. scipan Oct 2023 #120
We are now seeing how easy it is to overwhelm anti missile systems womanofthehills Oct 2023 #143
Iron Dome might work against scud missiles. The_Casual_Observer Oct 2023 #46
You talk of feeding an anti-trump conspiracy like it's a bad thing...nt albacore Oct 2023 #84
Because it's stupid. The_Casual_Observer Oct 2023 #86
Agree -Gaza border was minimally manned womanofthehills Oct 2023 #113
And yet, he walks free. SledDriver Oct 2023 #47
Anti missile system being overwhelmed but working as it always has womanofthehills Oct 2023 #144
Coulda been a ruse or a strong, powerful denial from Vlad. czarjak Oct 2023 #48
Bingo orangecrush Oct 2023 #50
$2billion from Saudis through Kushner? listen...crickets🤨 bringthePaine Oct 2023 #51
I have a friend that lives in Jerusalum Tree Lady Oct 2023 #55
Is this supposed ForgedCrank Oct 2023 #56
Tweet from Thom Hartmann milestogo Oct 2023 #59
And yet, nothing will be done to him. He's got his puppet 'judge' Qannon in his pocket. Justice matters. Oct 2023 #73
+1 mitch96 Oct 2023 #77
Conspiracy Theory 101 MorbidButterflyTat Oct 2023 #131
Still think about how Dipshit said he's got a boobytrap set to go Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2023 #60
I certainly wouldn't put it pass the orange maniac to give away secrets to the highest bidder. kimbutgar Oct 2023 #61
tramp violated the Espionage Act MrWowWow Oct 2023 #65
Such dismay Marthe48 Oct 2023 #68
As evil as Trump is, I don't see how any intelligence helped Hamas? Doodley Oct 2023 #69
Israel has superb defensive systems and a superb intelligence agency. LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #111
Thank you for your reply. It's not a perfect system. Don't you think that if Hamas Doodley Oct 2023 #132
"When", "How" "Where" "What devices". LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #134
First rule edisdead Oct 2023 #70
People on a web forum questioning tik tok edisdead Oct 2023 #71
+1 LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #89
+1 Bettie Oct 2023 #98
Fact checking websites will be busy looking into the Washington Post article tomorrow. KS Toronado Oct 2023 #75
From DailyKOS Kennah Oct 2023 #87
Yes, it very well could have been Trump. But we'll never know because LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #88
Republicans are blaming Biden. That's what they do, Emile Oct 2023 #91
So Trump spilled classified info on Israel in 2017 SomedayKindaLove Oct 2023 #95
The same anti missile tech is being used in Ukraine. Voltaire2 Oct 2023 #97
I wouldn't be surprised, as it would explain a lot GoCubsGo Oct 2023 #99
Hamas doesn't need to get info from Trump magasnightmare Oct 2023 #100
Where does Hamas get their intel from? LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #108
Iran and Russia. Voltaire2 Oct 2023 #129
Yep. And the argument is that Russia got it from Trump, and gave it to Iran, who gave it LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #130
An argument absent any evidence. Voltaire2 Oct 2023 #135
Fair enough. But my point is addressing the poster that I originally responded to LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #136
If he could have made some money by selling secret information Blue Owl Oct 2023 #105
Yup, could of been. republianmushroom Oct 2023 #110
This is major! This is key! 90-percent Oct 2023 #112
and don't forget the treacherous son in law Jarrod! 90-percent Oct 2023 #114
can you generate some AI art to elucidate your point? Recycle_Guru Oct 2023 #116
What does that have to do with this thread? LuckyCharms Oct 2023 #123
Thank you AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #146
Have you been outside? This weather is gorgeous! AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #145
Is there any doubt that tfg sold the intel? housecat Oct 2023 #122
Common sense says "no" brooklynite Oct 2023 #125
I don't buy it SpankMe Oct 2023 #137
Bibi (Hearts) Trumpy. TeamProg Oct 2023 #139
Anything other than video on tiktok? Progressive dog Oct 2023 #147
Abraham Accords jonstl08 Oct 2023 #148
LIV, golf, documents, money, golf bag full of cash. Diplomatic Immunity. usonian Oct 2023 #151

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
150. Duh! The bigger question is the scary one - How good are our THAID & Patriot systems
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 06:10 PM
Oct 2023

Cheap rockets, often made in factory bathrooms for $100 and very cheap drones can mess with a $200,000 anti missile system. Israel said the missile system worked as always- taking down 80 to 90% or rockets. So, if 3000 to 5000 rockets were fired in 20 minutes- 10 to 20 percent got through. It’s not rocket science or anything Trump had to tell anyone. Maybe Israel needs to double or triple their iron drones & maybe the US needs to triple our systems too. We might not be as safe as we thought.

Also- one projectile from Iron Dome costs $62,000 to shoot down each $100 crude missle or drone.
We knew this could be a problem esp with low flying missles escaping radar.

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
152. Forbes -"How Hamas Leveraged Cheap Rockets And Small Drones To Ambush Israel"
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 06:15 PM
Oct 2023
Qassam attacks are essentially harassing fire, landing at random and unlikely to cause casualties, but they can be lethal. To stop them, Israel set up its famed Iron Dome defence system, an arrangement of radars and interceptor missiles which can track and shoot down hundreds of incoming rockets with a claimed success rate of 90% against the 4,500 rockets fired in the 2021 conflict.

But even something as advanced as Iron Dome has its limits, and Hamas attempted to saturate Iron Dome by firing more rockets than it could handle. According to some reports they fired as many as 5,000 rockets in 20 minutes and as a result many may have gotten through.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/10/09/how-hamas-leveraged-cheap-rockets-and-small-drones-to-ambush-israel/

MOMFUDSKI

(5,452 posts)
6. The fact that it is out on tik doesn't matter.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:58 PM
Oct 2023

What does matter is we all know that orange clown had his mitts all over classified info and the man adores MONEY. Nobody has any proof, of course, but it is not out of the realm of possiblility.

Think. Again.

(7,900 posts)
22. Except that...
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:35 PM
Oct 2023

...the DOJ will does not have any reason to share any info with the public (and rightfully so).

So, it is up to us to find other sources of the info we need.

Does that make sense to you?

ShazzieB

(16,291 posts)
45. I can't answer for brooklynite, but I'll answer for myself.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:02 PM
Oct 2023

Being skeptical of tiktok as a reliable news source DOES NOT EQUAL "hating tiktok."

Tiktok has its uses. Being a reliable source of news is not what it was created for, and imo, it is unwise to rely on it as such.

That is all.

Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

PortTack

(32,716 posts)
140. Whether one likes TikTok or not it is every bit as reliable a news source as twitter or FB
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 03:30 PM
Oct 2023

Yes, there’s disinformation just like twitter and FB. Most posters there are using reliable news sources and reposting there. And, just like other sites, if you develop a following of reliable posters and not just anyone it’s a very good source. The list of Reputable ppl posting on tiktoc grows daily as does the number of Americans choosing the site.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/10/21/more-americans-are-getting-news-on-tiktok-bucking-the-trend-on-other-social-media-sites/

Ocelot II

(115,625 posts)
2. Need better intel than a video on TikTok.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:54 PM
Oct 2023

But nothing that asshole might have done would surprise me any more.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
4. Yes, quite possible. Trump was stealing classified information for very specific reasons.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:57 PM
Oct 2023

#1 reason: cash, large sums of cash.

Intelligence about Israel would have been worth a lot of money to various enemies.

We also know that when he took office, there was an unusually high number of CIA assets who
were killed or kidnapped. So that might be another reason Israel and the US were blindsided.
Missing intel agents who would have been passing information on to headquarters but were missing.

It takes a long time to place agents in the field and develop sources.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
10. John Brennan, ex CIA head, says we have to assume Trump got all the top classified info.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:01 PM
Oct 2023

And widely disseminated it.

He feels strongly Trump still has more documents.

We would be naive to think that Trump didn't give intel to our enemies.
And also naive to think it would do no damage.

Look at the damage Trump has done to his own country.
Why would he care about any other country?

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
15. Exactly, Trump giving up classified info right out of the gate.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:08 PM
Oct 2023

Israel intel must have been worth a fortune to its enemies.

ArkansasDemocrat1

(1,172 posts)
149. Like 2 billion
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 05:39 PM
Oct 2023

You know they wouldn't pay that much to learn about internal enemies..but that's a deal with external ones.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
153. Exactly like $2 billion.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 07:59 PM
Oct 2023

Yes that is money worth every cent to Putin if he can rule the world.
And destroy democracies all over the world.

bdamomma

(63,803 posts)
63. Crap
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:43 PM
Oct 2023

this is very scary, and with tRump and his little paws are involved in this. Who can forget all those boxes in the Mar A Loco???? tRump would sell secrets just for cash. Now they are talking about how crude oil prices will be going up. Price gouging anyone????


maliaSmith

(80 posts)
104. crude oil prices
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 10:47 AM
Oct 2023

US needs to force American oil companies to stop exporting our oil and keep it here in US. Then we won't need SA or ME oil and since our oil companies get our tax money in subsidies, force them to either lower gas prices here in US or stop giving them our tax dollars.

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
115. You can blame it all on Trump
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:10 PM
Oct 2023

But it seems there was very minimal security on the Gaza border. The soldiers guarding Gaza were sent to the West Bank as that was were the problems were.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-attack-gaza-intelligence/

Captain Zero

(6,790 posts)
79. I think the 2 bil Jared got was from Russia
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:38 AM
Oct 2023

Russia laundered the money through Saudi Arabia. And then Russia got access to MaraLoco bathroom treasure chest.

So Russia got the Israeli defense info and passed it on to Hamas...

That exactly how it could have happened.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
119. But Trump would have given Putin whatever he wanted?
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:17 PM
Oct 2023

Why bring Saudi into it?

But I do agree, that the HAMAS attack has KGB/Putin fingerprints all over it.

Captain Zero

(6,790 posts)
124. Saudis were the conduit
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:44 PM
Oct 2023

For money. Maybe Intel too. They couldn't be directly connected to either in regards to Intel about Israeli defenses nor in regards to money that was from Russia.

True Blue American

(17,981 posts)
58. Remember Trumps whipped dog look
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:23 PM
Oct 2023

With Putin in Helsinki after a closed door meeting where notes were hidden and he chose to believe Putin over our intelligence?

I think Putin helped install Trump to use him and he did.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
66. Putin did not spend all that money and time installing Trump into the WH for fun.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:56 PM
Oct 2023

He did it for specific reasons.

Yes I think Putin gave Trump his orders with clear consequences for failure to perform.
Trump realized he and Putin were no longer equals in that conversation.
That smile on Putin's face after that meeting was something else.

True Blue American

(17,981 posts)
85. Yes!
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:42 AM
Oct 2023

Last edited Mon Oct 9, 2023, 09:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Something in that meeting caused a drastic change.

Trump hoped to make billions in Russia as an equal to Putin. Instead he became sub subservient to Putin. I am sure he gave all kinds of secrets away to the Russians or anyone he thought he could impress.

Irish_Dem

(46,602 posts)
94. We know he loved to show off to random guests at MAL.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 07:24 AM
Oct 2023

What did he do with world leaders?

He would have felt insecure on some level, he was not up to the job.
So he most likely did a lot of showing off to enhance his fragile ego.

pandr32

(11,566 posts)
18. tRump IS a devil.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:17 PM
Oct 2023

Satan, or whatever name is given him, is made up. He isn't real.
tRump has no morals, scruples, ethos, or compassion. He cares only for himself. He helps Putin because Putin helps him.

calimary

(81,139 posts)
42. That's a mighty good question.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:54 PM
Oct 2023

Just how far did that family sell America down the river? In this case, it'd be the River Styx.

Captain Zero

(6,790 posts)
127. And Kush was acting rapidly in the waning days
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:53 PM
Oct 2023

He was all over the middle east between the election that he knew Trump lost and January 20.

He was mostly UNinvolved in the Jan 6 stuff. He was taking care of real business and walked out of the white house WITH $2 BILLION.

C_U_L8R

(44,992 posts)
16. Suadi-suckup Jared has been awfully quiet.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 06:10 PM
Oct 2023

Perhaps Mossad should be looking what those billions really bought.

progressoid

(49,952 posts)
80. I expect the right wing noise machine to tell us that this wouldn't have happened under Trump
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:46 AM
Oct 2023

I've been busy so haven't had the time (or inclination) to hear what they've said about this But having tuned into RW radio and Fox from time to time, I expect it to happen.

Rhiannon12866

(204,856 posts)
81. I was being sarcastic since we know he championed the Saudis, but I have no doubt that Republicans
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:06 AM
Oct 2023

Will twist the facts to somehow blame Joe Biden - who only said that this country stands with Israel. Earlier on MSNBC there were Republicans issuing false statements despite SoS Antony Blinken appearing on both Meet the Press and Face the Nation early today to present the facts. Republicans have claimed without evidence that the Biden administration’s recent unfreezing of $6 billion in Iranian funds were used to fund the attack on Israel even though Blinken made it clear that this money can only be used for food, medicine and humanitarian aid.

progressoid

(49,952 posts)
82. Of course, ten minutes after I posted I saw this gem
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:11 AM
Oct 2023

from GOP presidential candidate Tim Scott blaming Biden.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218342219

I think I'll just go back to other stuff for a few days. People be crayzee out there.



Rhiannon12866

(204,856 posts)
83. Thanks! And I posted a couple of Republicans making those bizarre claims, too.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:19 AM
Oct 2023

MSNBC also had one of those on. Symone interviewed Republican Congressman Tim Burchett.

Exposing the GOP's false claims on Israel attack funding - Symone - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017869573

brakester

(45 posts)
72. I got a very sick feeling deep
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 10:13 PM
Oct 2023

...in my soul when he stepped across the White House threshold in 2017.
And it has only metastasized since.

If ordinary citizens like us were panicked about this mango malignancy, where were our government officials who were/are supposed to protect us all this time? He should be treated as a spy, not free to roam the world.

I am tired of reading about the pussyfooting excuses about why...

1. we can't jail our dear ex-president!

2. Section 3 of the 14th amendment just couldn't apply! (Read it. It is plain as the nose on your face!) In layman terms it, "forbids holding office by former office holders who then participate in insurrection or rebellion."

3. Oh, but, but, but, if we arrested him, some nutcases will get real mad!

4. And, NO, the exceptions to the protections of the first amendment concerning incitement to violence could not possibly apply to our dear leader.



This will turn out to be the biggest mistake our country has ever made. And all because of craven officials and an over-deification of the First Amendment.






Blue Owl

(50,297 posts)
109. There's just no way that two-timing, two-scooping, two-weeking, double-downing, double-chinned slob
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 11:13 AM
Oct 2023

could be a double agent....

global1

(25,226 posts)
26. Something About This Whole Attack By Hamas .....
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:00 PM
Oct 2023

just smells.

Israeli intelligence is one of the most respected and thorough in all the world.

How did they not know that this attack was coming?

How was Hamas able to take advantage of all of the vulnerabilities of Israel?

Delphinus

(11,825 posts)
44. It does
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:01 PM
Oct 2023

indeed. And where did Hamas get the weapons? They're known more for Molotov cocktails that bombs.

TheRickles

(2,047 posts)
54. Cui bono? I wouldn't rule out a false flag - sounds absurd, but here's why I ask the question.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:16 PM
Oct 2023

It seems totally suicidal for Hamas to do this, as Israel for all intents and purposes now has carte blanche to level the entire Gaza strip, which they will probably go ahead and do. So who really benefits? Netanyahu. The country is now unified behind him in a way that was unthinkable a few days ago. Maybe it wasn't a security/intelligence failure after all. I wouldn't put it past him. Hopefully we will learn the truth soon.

elias7

(3,991 posts)
90. Israel could have leveled Gaza anytime in the past 55 years, yet it hasn't
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 06:17 AM
Oct 2023

When surrounding Arab nations gathered in Gaza, on the West Bank, in the Golan Heights, on the Sinai peninsula preparing to destroy a tiny Jewish country (smaller than Vermont), Israel got wind of this an preemptively attacked, won the war in 6 days, and captured the land from where she was going to be attacked.

Israel has always offered the land back for peace and acknowledgment of their right to exist, yet only Egypt agreed (Sadat in 1978) and poof - they got the Sinai peninsula back.

Though the Palestinian territories are run by terrorist groups and have been a constant threat to Israel in my lifetime, the Israeli’s have always been retrained from “leveling” the area, in large part because Hamas et al use innocent citizens as shields (as they are doing now).

Both peoples had the opportunity to declare statehood in 1948, but only one did. The other, spurred on by its Arab neighbors has failed to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist and engaged in terror since 1948. This is really nothing new.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
27. From WaPo May 15, 2017
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:01 PM
Oct 2023

President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”

dmr

(28,344 posts)
36. That last sentence is chilling.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:40 PM
Oct 2023

I remember when this happened, and I knew then we were going to definitely have problems with this new president. It didn't take long for tfg to prove our suspicions that he was not patriotic.

MorbidButterflyTat

(1,779 posts)
133. Ummm....
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:49 PM
Oct 2023
After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.


Probably something was done about it in the last six years.

gab13by13

(21,264 posts)
32. Wouldn't there be a record
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:30 PM
Oct 2023

if Trump viewed the classified information on Israel's defenses? Wouldn't he have to view that in a SCIF?

If Trump viewed that information then it is not crazy to imagine he could have given it to Putin.

Nothing is a crazy conspiracy theory when dealing with Trump.

Response to gab13by13 (Reply #32)

MOMFUDSKI

(5,452 posts)
57. Orange guy has a phone and
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:21 PM
Oct 2023

a big mouth and has been nothing but trouble his entire life. Why all the surprise?

Kablooie

(18,613 posts)
35. May 16, 2017, NY Times, "Israel Said to Be Source of Secret Intelligence Trump Gave to Russians"
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:38 PM
Oct 2023

WASHINGTON — The classified intelligence that President Trump disclosed in a meeting last week with Russian officials at the White House was provided by Israel, according to a current and a former American official familiar with how the United States obtained the information. The revelation adds a potential diplomatic complication to an episode that has renewed questions about how the White House handles sensitive intelligence.

---

Mr. Trump said on Twitter that he had an “absolute right” to share information in the interest of fighting terrorism and called his meeting with the Russians “very, very successful” in a brief appearance later at the White House.

---

Now, the Americans and Israelis will have to contend with the serious breach of espionage etiquette. Israel had previously urged the United States to be careful about the handling of the intelligence that Mr. Trump discussed, the officials said.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html

Aussie105

(5,334 posts)
37. Like peeling away the layers of an onion . . .
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:43 PM
Oct 2023

The evil that Trump bestowed on the world in four short years becomes revealed to our eyes.

Going to take some cleaning up, if that is at all possible.

Can we start by making sure in future that people in political power are actually sane and responsible adults?

JoseBalow

(2,277 posts)
38. Remember when Jared pushed for a secret direct phone line to Putin, outside the Whitehouse?
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:43 PM
Oct 2023

I do!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40068137

Donald Trump's son-in-law attempted to set up secret communications with Moscow a month after Mr Trump's election, US media say.

Jared Kushner wanted to use Russian facilities to avoid US interception of discussions with Moscow, the Washington Post and New York Times said.

Mr Kushner, a senior White House aide, has not commented.

whopis01

(3,492 posts)
92. Yes, he has
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 06:36 AM
Oct 2023

He made a statement very quickly claiming that he had brokered the Abraham Accords, bringing peace to the Middle East and that Biden had been whittling away at it ever since. He blamed Biden for enabling the attack.

More recently he has claimed that this attack and the war in Ukraine would not have happened if he was president.

Interesting that he so quickly makes a connection between Ukraine and Israel.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,094 posts)
41. I tecall a 60 Minutes feature on Bibi and Puti being besties
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:53 PM
Oct 2023

This was back in the Obama era. Bibi is not to be trusted. I've no idea how our intelligence agencies work with allies post whineyguy.

LudwigPastorius

(9,111 posts)
43. The way Hamas circumvented Iron Dome was simply by launching overwhelming numbers of rockets.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:56 PM
Oct 2023

They fired somewhere on the order of 3,000 rockets into Israel in 20 minutes.

Each Iron Dome battery has between 60 to 80 interceptors.

You don't need to invent some skullduggery to explain it. It's simple math.

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
143. We are now seeing how easy it is to overwhelm anti missile systems
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 03:49 PM
Oct 2023

Thousands of cheap rockets can overwhelm the system.

Israel's Iron Dome has been described as one of the most effective air defence systems on the planet.

It was designed to respond to short-range threats from Gaza and southern Lebanon, and has intercepted thousands of rockets since it became operational in 2011.

Israel's Ministry of Defence says it is capable of handling multiple threats simultaneously, with a success rate of up to 90 per cent.

But the intensity of the rocket barrage from Hamas militants in its surprise attack on early Saturday morning managed to saturate the system.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-10/what-is-israel-iron-dome-air-defence-gaza-rockets/102952172
 

The_Casual_Observer

(27,742 posts)
46. Iron Dome might work against scud missiles.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:05 PM
Oct 2023

Apparently that's not what this is.
This trump conspiracy is viral bullshit.

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
113. Agree -Gaza border was minimally manned
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:04 PM
Oct 2023

The surprise attack started around 6 a.m., with a barrage of rocket fire followed by cross-border attacks. Yet it wasn’t until late afternoon that buses and trains were mobilized to ferry soldiers south. It took some 10 hours for the first troops to arrive in towns overrun by militants


The Gaza border, it soon became clear, was minimally manned, and it took hours to redirect units stationed in the West Bank, which has been the main area of focus for the military this year. Palestinian militancy has surged in the occupied territory, from Jenin to Jericho, and Israeli raids have been increasingly common and deadly. Some in Netanyahu’s far-right government had called to annex the West Bank. Gaza, by contrast, appeared stable.
There was a need for more soldiers, so where did they take them from? From the Gaza border, where they thought it was calm,” said Farkash, the former IDF military intelligence chief. “Not surprising that Hamas and Islamic Jihad noticed the low staffing at the border.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-attack-gaza-intelligence/

womanofthehills

(8,668 posts)
144. Anti missile system being overwhelmed but working as it always has
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 04:10 PM
Oct 2023

Plus -No soldiers on Gaza border and bad intelligence gathering is not all Trump’s fault. By just saying Trump did it - you avoid truly looking at what’s really going on.

I hate Trump too - but come on. US & Israel’s intelligence failed big time. Why? Also, Israel needs to double or triple jtheir iron domes if they want more security and maybe the US needs to double their anti missle systems. This is a lesson and fact that anti missle systems might not work like we were told.

Rockets can be made for a few hundred dollars so millions can be made cheaply while each iron dome Interceptor is $50,000.

Tree Lady

(11,433 posts)
55. I have a friend that lives in Jerusalum
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:17 PM
Oct 2023

She said alarms have been going off last few days and they have been told to stay home unless necessary. She was telling us today (she is my bookclub leader and we have women from Europe and different parts of America in it) about the Iron Dome and how it blocks missiles. Sounds scary, I didn't know they had those that worked ready yet.

I was wondering all day yesterday if zoom and internet would be up for club this morning, seemed to work fine she only froze up once for a few seconds.

She said its a 3 hr drive to where the bombing is taking place. Sounded close to me!

She also said most houses and apts have a special bomb room that has steel in it and special shutters for window.

She lives across the street from what she says would be the white house here, so their capital building, says its the safest area.

She used to work in Hollywood in special effects and got tired of the stress so went back where her family lived in Isreal. She has a Oscar for special effects from movie Babe.

ForgedCrank

(1,765 posts)
56. Is this supposed
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:19 PM
Oct 2023

somehow mean that Hamas got intel sourced by Trump and that is why the attack was effective?
I doubt it had anything to do with 4-5 thousand rockets being launched at once and overwhelming the system.
Na. Couldn't be. Has to be what this tik tok video says

Justice matters.

(6,921 posts)
73. And yet, nothing will be done to him. He's got his puppet 'judge' Qannon in his pocket.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 10:46 PM
Oct 2023

And he's exploiting the vulnerabilities of the 1st-Amendment (and the shyness of the justice system against former Presidents...).

Putin told him what to do and promised him a effin tower in Moscow in return, and voila...

MorbidButterflyTat

(1,779 posts)
131. Conspiracy Theory 101
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:44 PM
Oct 2023
Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel’s Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin


Sounds definitive! Roll out the indictment(s)!

kimbutgar

(21,066 posts)
61. I certainly wouldn't put it pass the orange maniac to give away secrets to the highest bidder.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:38 PM
Oct 2023

I just wish that POS would STFU!

MrWowWow

(64 posts)
65. tramp violated the Espionage Act
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:48 PM
Oct 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

21st century

In 2001, retired Army Reserve Colonel George Trofimoff, the most senior U.S. military officer to be indicted under the Act, was convicted of conducting espionage for the Soviets in the 1970s–1990s.[89]

Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr. was indicted under 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) for allegedly having a box of documents in his house after he left NSA employment around 2004. He was sentenced to six years in prison in 2006.[90]

In 2005, Pentagon Iran expert Lawrence Franklin and AIPAC lobbyists Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman were indicted under the Act. Franklin pleaded guilty to conspiracy to disclose national defense information to the lobbyists and an Israeli government official.[91] Franklin was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison, but the sentence was later reduced to 10 months of home confinement.[92]

Under the Obama and Trump administrations, at least eight Espionage Act prosecutions were related not to traditional espionage but either withholding information or communicating with members of the press. Out of a total of eleven prosecutions under the Espionage Act against government officials accused of providing classified information to the press, seven have occurred since Obama took office.[93] "Leaks related to national security can put people at risk," the President said at a news conference in 2013. "They can put men and women in uniform that I've sent into the battlefield at risk. I don't think the American people would expect me, as commander in chief, not to be concerned about information that might compromise their missions or might get them killed."

Marthe48

(16,910 posts)
68. Such dismay
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 09:03 PM
Oct 2023

Thinking of people who voted for and supported traitor and it has led to this. And the behind the scenes machinations of people who think this is better than what we had and held.

Dismay isn't the word I want to use. The enormity of this attack is sinking in and there is more horror on the way.

LuckyCharms

(17,416 posts)
111. Israel has superb defensive systems and a superb intelligence agency.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 11:24 AM
Oct 2023

The fact that so many rockets made it into Israel indicates that their defense systems and/or intelligence was compromised by counterintelligence.

Something broke.

Doodley

(9,052 posts)
132. Thank you for your reply. It's not a perfect system. Don't you think that if Hamas
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:45 PM
Oct 2023

sent thousands of rockets that you'd expect a lot to get through. Example, 5000 rockets, 95% effectiveness---that's still 250 getting through. I can't understand what specific information would help Hamas. What would or could they have done differently if they had access to an intelligence report?

LuckyCharms

(17,416 posts)
134. "When", "How" "Where" "What devices".
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:51 PM
Oct 2023

Intel exposes weaknesses as well as strengths.

And intel isn't the only issue. Support (financial and logistical) from entities outside of Hamas is another issue.

edisdead

(1,910 posts)
71. People on a web forum questioning tik tok
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 10:09 PM
Oct 2023

Someone posted an opinion regarding a possibility of trump sharing info that we know he had and he did share with people and the first thought is that we shouldn’t opine on it because it was brought up on another type of forum.

Fucking hilarious.

LuckyCharms

(17,416 posts)
88. Yes, it very well could have been Trump. But we'll never know because
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 03:30 AM
Oct 2023

out national psyche would never be able to come to grips with that if it turned out to be true.

SomedayKindaLove

(529 posts)
95. So Trump spilled classified info on Israel in 2017
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 08:04 AM
Oct 2023

And Hamas waited 6 years to act? Doesn’t seem likely the two are related.

Hamas didn’t need classified info to know what day it was.

Voltaire2

(12,968 posts)
97. The same anti missile tech is being used in Ukraine.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 08:13 AM
Oct 2023

It is far more likely that Russia has learned a lot about these systems by direct experience.

GoCubsGo

(32,075 posts)
99. I wouldn't be surprised, as it would explain a lot
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 08:34 AM
Oct 2023

regarding Israel's "massive intelligence failure." But, I also wouldn't be surprised if this was a LIHOP by Netenyahoo, as an excuse to establish an authoritarian government. He's a sociopath, like Putin and Trump, and wouldn't think twice about letting his own citizens die in order to obtain total power.

magasnightmare

(7 posts)
100. Hamas doesn't need to get info from Trump
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 10:22 AM
Oct 2023

I despise Trump as much as anyone else but these loony conspiracy theories just serve to make us look as bad as the MAGA cultists.

LuckyCharms

(17,416 posts)
130. Yep. And the argument is that Russia got it from Trump, and gave it to Iran, who gave it
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 01:34 PM
Oct 2023

to Hamas.

Or, another argument would be that it came from the Saudis, who received it from Trump's Middle East "advisor", Kushner.

I don't think any of these arguments are out of the realm of possibility so much that they can be called "conspiratorial".

Voltaire2

(12,968 posts)
135. An argument absent any evidence.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:14 PM
Oct 2023

Here is a more reasonable theory: after more than a year of fighting in Ukraine, Russia has learned a lot about Israeli and US weapons tech, especially anti-missile tech. It is one of the pitfalls of deploying your latest tech, your opponents learn a lot about it.

LuckyCharms

(17,416 posts)
136. Fair enough. But my point is addressing the poster that I originally responded to
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:21 PM
Oct 2023

by saying that I do not believe that Hamas getting some intel from Russia, which was provided from Trump, can necessarily be called a conspiracy theory.

It's a theory without known proof, but not necessarily a conspiracy that makes us look no better than MAGAts, which was what the OP alluded to.

Your theory is indeed reasonable, but other theories may be reasonable as well. We just don't know, we're all guessing.

Blue Owl

(50,297 posts)
105. If he could have made some money by selling secret information
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 10:48 AM
Oct 2023

Then nothing is out of the realm of possibility when it comes to that greedy, self-serving fat fuck.

90-percent

(6,828 posts)
112. This is major! This is key!
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 11:58 AM
Oct 2023

Please fellow Democracy luvin' DU'er buds, don't let this fall down the rabbit hole. Between TFG and bone-saw advocate solution for pesky journalists son in law, the line from the current Hamas attacks and TFG/Kushner is the straightest line in human history.

-90% Jimmy

90-percent

(6,828 posts)
114. and don't forget the treacherous son in law Jarrod!
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:06 PM
Oct 2023

Our Security agencies denied the Quisling son-in-law security clearances to access top secret info, but equally treacherous father in law over ruled them and the treason weasel got the clearances anyway.

I guess the Saudi's gave Jarrod 2 billion in securities to manage so he could get OJT training, as he has few qualifications for that job?

-90% Jimmy

brooklynite

(94,387 posts)
125. Common sense says "no"
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:47 PM
Oct 2023

Trump hasn’t had access to any NEW intel about Israel in more than two years (he’s also turned down intel briefings offered as a courtesy to former Presidents) and his meetings with Russian officials were several years before that. So, no, I don’t find claims that he fed infor to Russia that helped Hamas plan its attack.compelling.

SpankMe

(2,957 posts)
137. I don't buy it
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:27 PM
Oct 2023

Trump isn't smart enough to know about Iron Dome or other aspects of Israel's defense in enough detail to leak it to the Russians in support of some Trumpist agenda.

Also, Trump wouldn't know the value of such information to the Russians. Would he be able to calculate, in advance, that the Russians would leak to Iran who would then leak to Hamas? I don't think the Orange Asshole &reg has that much foresight.

Also, his Jesus-for-Jews right wing advisers would be sure that Trump wouldn't do anything that would bring harm to Israel. Heck, they made him move the US embassy to Jerusalem.

I suppose it's possible that Orange Asshole &reg could have just had loose lips. But this connection of Trump to Russians to Iran, then on to Hamas seems like too many steps to be plausible. If Hamas knew anything about Israel's defenses, I'd be more inclined to believe they got it the old fashioned way - by buying it off of some lower level, young disgruntled Israeli or American military officer.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
147. Anything other than video on tiktok?
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 05:11 PM
Oct 2023

The breakdown has a lot of steps required with absolutely no evidence that the info came from Trump through three specific countries and was even still valid. How many revisions to Iron Dome could have been made since Trump left office?

jonstl08

(412 posts)
148. Abraham Accords
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 05:14 PM
Oct 2023

Been reported the agreement Trump's admin negatioated with Saudi Arabia and Israel infuriated Iran. Has been reported this may have been a factor in Hamas attacking Gaza with Iran's blessing.

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