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Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:11 PM Oct 2023

Discussion for the day: WWIII is ongoing, US is involved.

We are fighting on three fronts: Europe, Mideast, Pacific.

The enemy is the autocratic bloc: Russia, China, Saudi, Iran, North Korea.

The autocratic bloc as been very clever, very successful in weakening western democracies.
They have installed their puppets at the highest levels of US government.
And in other democracies.

The GOP puppets have been working hard to weaken the US military.
And create chaos and confusion across the land.

Trump has seriously degraded US and our allies' intelligence services.

We are committed to Ukraine's fight. And we are addressing the China threat.
Now the Mideast has exploded. Iran and Russia are allies, the HAMAS attack
has Putin's fingerprints all over it.

All according to plan. Time for the autocratic bloc to kick up their aggression.

Their goal is to be the sole 21st century superpowers.
Permanent, total power and confiscation of all of the planet's resources.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Discussion for the day: WWIII is ongoing, US is involved. (Original Post) Irish_Dem Oct 2023 OP
Well stated. n/t CincyDem Oct 2023 #1
Pretty much. Elessar Zappa Oct 2023 #2
Sorry, but the US is already in it. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #4
No, we're not. Elessar Zappa Oct 2023 #5
We are involved in Ukraine. Will now help Israel. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #8
We've already lost Guadacanal to the Chinese ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2023 #21
Quite a few WWII vets are spinning in their graves. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #30
I wonder if there is a reason Hamas attacked right after the US House lost its Speaker. raging moderate Oct 2023 #7
Coincidences take a lot of planning. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #9
Irish_Dem bdamomma Oct 2023 #46
I hope they can see what is happening. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #50
More likely that's it's 50 years almost to the day of the Yom Kippur War Kennah Oct 2023 #49
On SC Primary Day 2020 I mentioned the world was as divided as WWII era bucolic_frolic Oct 2023 #3
Don't ever let others stop you from speaking out, telling the truth. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #6
We continue diplomatic relations with China. Sec Blinken was there last week. bucolic_frolic Oct 2023 #16
Sen. Schumer is there now. 2naSalit Oct 2023 #24
Sen. Schumer certainly knows that substantive negotiations are not going to happen with China. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #32
I don't recall... 2naSalit Oct 2023 #33
Yes he is there. The question is why? Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #36
With all due respect, I believe all your points are incorrect. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #28
It was so easy KT2000 Oct 2023 #10
Yes, destroying democracy around the world is like taking candy from a baby. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #11
Yes! KT2000 Oct 2023 #17
The GOP are the biggest suckers in the world. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #19
Remember what they called WW2 until the Nazi blitzkrieg in 1940. roamer65 Oct 2023 #12
Yes it is looking that way right now. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #13
I would agree. roamer65 Oct 2023 #15
Don't forget Stalin invaded Poland shortly after Hitler ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2023 #26
China had planned to invade Taiwan after the Ukraine invasion. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #31
Hate to say this, but there is another front: the magats and plutocrats in the US erronis Oct 2023 #14
That's an interesting take. Sort of like a global civil war. I sadly agree. Buckeyeblue Oct 2023 #25
Yes I wanted to post that the US is fighting on four fronts. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #35
None of the nations in your "autocratic bloc" are actual allies. hunter Oct 2023 #18
With all due respect you are quite incorrect. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #38
Well stated Irish Dem bronxiteforever Oct 2023 #20
Can't argue with the truth. ananda Oct 2023 #22
I have always thought I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2023 #48
Russia, if you're listening? Enemy Of The People. Literally. czarjak Oct 2023 #23
Not our fights... WarGamer Oct 2023 #27
Too late WG. We have already made Ukraine and Israel our fights. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #39
Easy line to draw. WarGamer Oct 2023 #40
Except we do have American lives on the line now. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #42
quiet as its kept llashram Oct 2023 #29
We are not "fighting" in any of those locales. brooklynite Oct 2023 #34
I feel like this was poor timing and a bad choice, if so quakerboy Oct 2023 #37
Good post. There was once a wider gap between the autocratic bloc and American populations. housecat Oct 2023 #41
Well said. Yes exactly what Putin has done. Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #45
"Give me liberty or give me death" still applies .... to Democrats housecat Oct 2023 #51
GOP says "give me cash and I will do whatever you want." Irish_Dem Oct 2023 #53
I learned bdamomma Oct 2023 #47
Thank you. It's a group effort. housecat Oct 2023 #52
K&R burrowowl Oct 2023 #43
I hate to some what agree with you. bluestarone Oct 2023 #44

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
8. We are involved in Ukraine. Will now help Israel.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:48 PM
Oct 2023

We are fighting a very Cold War in the Pacific with the Chinese.

Putin's puppets have damaged our military and intel agencies.
Infiltrated our government at the highest levels.

We are fighting on three fronts. Actually four if you count the Putin puppets in the US government.

Putting our heads in the sand does not make reality go away.

The sooner we face reality, the sooner we can fight back.

FDR knew the US would end up fighting in WWII.
But the people could not face reality quite as soon as he did.
He waited until they caught up with him.
Which they did finally with Japan delivering the reality sandwich.

raging moderate

(4,240 posts)
7. I wonder if there is a reason Hamas attacked right after the US House lost its Speaker.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:42 PM
Oct 2023

Is somebody orchestrating some large coordinated plan?

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
9. Coincidences take a lot of planning.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:51 PM
Oct 2023

And right after the GOP has damaged our military.

And Trump has stolen and released classified information about the US
and our allies.

Always ask WHO BENEFITS. ???

Putin is at war with the west and is desperate.
We know he will do anything to win.

bdamomma

(63,223 posts)
46. Irish_Dem
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:17 PM
Oct 2023

You're on target, now you think other great minds like Jack Smith and Judge Chutkan are thinking the same thing.

We have Putin lovers in the House.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
50. I hope they can see what is happening.
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 06:45 AM
Oct 2023

Jack Smith saw some stuff at The Hague.
Hopefully he recognizes the same things here.

bucolic_frolic

(42,024 posts)
3. On SC Primary Day 2020 I mentioned the world was as divided as WWII era
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:36 PM
Oct 2023

I received a couple messages that I was an alarmist, I'd better keep that quiet. Not sure if it was simply someone who disagreed with me, or thought it not my call to make, or it was an idea not ready to be dealt with. It was a minor thing, I think, but I was Pooh-Poohed.

So what you say is true, but we're not quite there. We still have 5 eyes allies, NATO, technology. We are stronger than in 2020. The Speakership is a barrier, but not a blockade. Our military leaders are with us. Our markets and world markets are free markets, profit driven. That is not a small thing. I'll worry when the profits are passed to the ruling juntas. There went capitalism, incentive, here comes slavery.

It is about resources. Like rats in a maze with scraps of food, fighting for it. They'd devour each other.

A man used to tell my dad, the big fish are eating the little fish. In all of human history we have not conquered pyramid, hierarchical political power structures. Not with religious rule, not with royalty, not with capitalism, not with communism. Socialism in its pure form flattens it a bit, but still there are decisions to be made, and greed is not forgotten.

This is a period of immediate great uncertainty. It's a long cold winter ahead.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
6. Don't ever let others stop you from speaking out, telling the truth.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:41 PM
Oct 2023

I have been connecting dots since childhood.
I am usually correct.

I will argue with you. The US is already there in the war.
We are fighting the Chinese in a very Cold War.
And Russia in a hot war.
Now we will help Israel in another hot war.

The autocratic bloc wants it all. And to be superpowers.
They want to crush the world's democracies which they see as an inferior form of government.
And hogging the resources they believe they should have.

Yes it is going to be a very tough battle.

bucolic_frolic

(42,024 posts)
16. We continue diplomatic relations with China. Sec Blinken was there last week.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:27 PM
Oct 2023

We both know it's about Taiwan, has been for 50+ years. Our ally is fighting Russia. We are supplying our ally. Israel is developing and their politics has made things worse.

We have not declared war on anyone that I know of. Colonialism and imperialism are dead, or so we were told. But it's still about resources.

War would be insane given the level of destructive technology today. Cooler heads may yet prevail.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
32. Sen. Schumer certainly knows that substantive negotiations are not going to happen with China.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:55 PM
Oct 2023

So why is he there? He is not there for small time trade negotiations.

2naSalit

(84,786 posts)
33. I don't recall...
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 04:03 PM
Oct 2023

But I remember hearing that he had gone on Friday and was there yesterday on NPR.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
28. With all due respect, I believe all your points are incorrect.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:46 PM
Oct 2023

1. The US had diplomatic relations with Germany and Japan before WWII.

2. It was not until Germany declared war against the US in 1941 and Japan bombed Pearl Harbor
that we severed diplomatic relations. So the fact we have not yet severed relations with China is meaningless.

3. If you recall from your history classes, the US tends to fight wars whether we have declared war or not.

4. Congress never declared war against Korea.

5. Congress never declared war against Viet Nam.

6. Congress never declared war against Iraq.

7 Congress never declared war against Afghanistan.

8. In terms of Viet Nam, my father and my friends' fathers were flying combat in Viet Nam but
called "advisers." I personally know US Air Force "advisors" who were shot down and killed by
the enemy. Therefore I am not the right person to try to sell that the US only fights wars that are
declared wars.

9. Colonialism is not dead for the autocratic bloc.

10. Russia wants Ukraine and China wants Taiwan to be their colonies.

11. It is most certainly not just about Taiwan.

12. China has also claimed possession of many islands in the South China Sea.

13. China has stated over and over they will be the 21st century superpower and they are not kidding.
They already have the world's largest Navy and will also have the world's largest army.

14. Cooler heads are not prevailing. Read the news: Ukraine, Israel.
Like I do, I suggest you listen to the many fine China podcasts posted here every day.
I have also visited China several times. It is an eye opener.

KT2000

(20,514 posts)
10. It was so easy
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 01:55 PM
Oct 2023

We are looking at long range thinkers taking control. Democracy depends on a thinking public to make rational decisions for the good of the country. Capitalism celebrates narcissism - self-interest, which is short term thinking. This is a conflict that is never going to be resolved. Who knew that Americans were such followers when they believe they are part of the rugged individualists. Ha!

Putin's hand is guiding the holier than thou, more patriotic than thou, more pure-blood than thou, movements for a long time. What fools.

You make an excellent summary of what is actually happening. I believe it takes an Irish to face the true darkness of all of this. Being one myself, I find people have a fear of doing that - it does not make for polite company.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
11. Yes, destroying democracy around the world is like taking candy from a baby.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:08 PM
Oct 2023

Putin and China have been working on this plan for a long time.

They have installed their puppets at the highest levels in western democracies.

Interesting you should bring up the Irish.
Genetic testing revealed my Irish lines are ancient, aboriginal Irish.
Way before even the celts and druids.

So my family was subjugated for one thousand years by various groups.
Literally starved, beaten, enslaved.
Forbidden education, land, religion, their language, etc.

We know BS when we see it.
We know autocrats taking control when we see it.

My family lines did not survive by being stupid and not being able to add 2 plus 2 and get 4.

KT2000

(20,514 posts)
17. Yes!
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:32 PM
Oct 2023

The puppets are under the impression they will share the power. They will believe that all the way out the window until they hit the ground.

Do you shock people when you speak honestly? Me too.

I take refuge in Hozier music and always recommend his song In a Week to understand the mental freedom of the Irish.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hozier+in+a+week


Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
19. The GOP are the biggest suckers in the world.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:21 PM
Oct 2023

They believe Russia and China will share power and resources with them.
Only as long as they are useful. Yes then they better not stand near windows.

People are shocked at first until I go point by point to prove my theory.
Then they have cognitive dissonance until they assimilate and reorganize things in their head.

I will listen to the music you posted. Thank you!

roamer65

(36,729 posts)
12. Remember what they called WW2 until the Nazi blitzkrieg in 1940.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:11 PM
Oct 2023

The Phony War.

I think we are very possibly in the beginning time frame of WW3.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
13. Yes it is looking that way right now.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:13 PM
Oct 2023

WWIII started with the Ukraine invasion.
We didn't know it then.

ArkansasDemocrat1

(947 posts)
26. Don't forget Stalin invaded Poland shortly after Hitler
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:42 PM
Oct 2023

I can see the parallel. Was it Twain who said history rhymes with itself over and over?

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
31. China had planned to invade Taiwan after the Ukraine invasion.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:49 PM
Oct 2023

But they didn't count on all the financial sanctions, that surprised and scared them.
So they delayed their plans for the moment.
But they will figure it out.

Yes it is reminding me of WWII, very much so.

erronis

(14,644 posts)
14. Hate to say this, but there is another front: the magats and plutocrats in the US
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 02:15 PM
Oct 2023

I almost think the notion of states fighting for border territories is quaint and archaic.

We are engaged in a global fight that transcends national borders - just like metastasizing cancers. The forces against democracy are embedded in the US and other nations. They may be directed from power centers in Beijing, Moscow/St. Petersburg or even homes of local billionaires. But their reach is international.

Throw in religious zealotry and caste/race hatreds and we have a world-wide festering pot. As climate change continues to cause massive population movements and suffering, this will not be easy to fix.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
35. Yes I wanted to post that the US is fighting on four fronts.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 04:11 PM
Oct 2023

But figured that was a bridge too far for right now.

The US is in a civil war. Designed and paid for by Russia and China.

The autocrats will start as many civil wars as possible in western democracies.
Weaken and divide countries, their military, their form of government.

It is not an accident that the GOP denigrates and weakens the US military.
Despises the rule of law, the DOJ, courts, etc.

Russia especially likes stirring up trouble in impoverished nations to cause
immigrant crises in western democracies. To further cause division and chaos.

A nice touch for Putin was funding the US NRA and gun lobby groups.
This way Putin gets to kill Americans with impunity.

Yes the notion of nation states at war is a quaint and old fashioned notion.

The world's oligarchs transcend borders. Their interest is in protecting their vast wealth.
They have no loyalty at all to a country or form of government.

Yes the autocratic bloc takes advantage of the dark underbelly of human nature.
Hatred, fear of the other. Creating dissension and chaos.

The timing is not coincidental. The autocratic bloc will take advantage of the chaos,
suffering, starvation, migration, deaths caused by global warming. Just like the oligarchs
as we speak are trying to figure out how to make money off of climate change which they caused.

The autocratic bloc will kill as many humans on the planet as it takes to get what they want.
If there is any doubt look at what Putin is doing in Ukraine. What HAMAS is doing in Israel.

They will not stop until they are stopped. Just like the GOP and Trump won't stop.

hunter

(38,203 posts)
18. None of the nations in your "autocratic bloc" are actual allies.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:18 PM
Oct 2023

China is probably waiting patiently for Russia to disintegrate so it can gobble up Russian resources at fire-sale prices. China tolerates North Korea because if North Korea fails millions of clueless and starving refugees with few marketable skills will flood across the border into China.

The only thing Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia have in common is that they export oil. Saudi Arabia would disintegrate entirely if they couldn't trade their oil for hard currencies and this would unleash yet another flood of Middle Eastern refugees who would find little welcome elsewhere.

What's happening now in Israel is a civil war, probably not of any earth-shattering consequence. If this war was happening in Central or South America, or any other place U.S. Americans don't generally give a damn about, would people be talking about WWIII?

Maybe the god these people claim in common can sort it out. Unfortunately he seems to thrive on this sort of conflict.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
38. With all due respect you are quite incorrect.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 04:43 PM
Oct 2023

Russia, China, North Korea are strong allies.
Russia and Iran are strategic allies and have been for some time.

In March of this year, Saudi and Iran became allies in a deal brokered by CHINA.

Can you see all the dots connecting?
They form the autocratic bloc.

We are already in WWIII and we don't yet know it.
At least the people don't know it.

I am sure the CIA knows it.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,318 posts)
48. I have always thought
Mon Oct 9, 2023, 12:37 AM
Oct 2023

Democracy and autocracy are the opposite beliefs. Autocracy cannot tolerate democracy within it and Democracy better stop letting autocracy corrode it's meaning.

These types of beliefs have always been a tension point in how humanity views its reality.

Can't have two co- existing realities in one reality . Here we have one orientation based in a more psychopathic anti social way with colonialism conquering ,autocracy,religious fundamentalism ,ruthless control & fake hierarchy.

And another orientation that is pro social,egalitarian,compassionate,liberal values democracy,cooperation,diversity and freedom that seems unable to co-exist. in peace living in 1 reality on a finite planet

Liberal democracies can co exist as long as autocracy can be suppressed,and Autocracies seek to destroy democracy and will not let it exist for long.

WarGamer

(11,640 posts)
27. Not our fights...
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 03:44 PM
Oct 2023

Help those willing to defend their nations BUT...

Not a single US life to be put in harms way.

And that includes not starting WW3 or nuclear war.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
39. Too late WG. We have already made Ukraine and Israel our fights.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 04:52 PM
Oct 2023

These are proxy wars, and you know what that means.

I don't see imminent nuclear war.

The autocratic bloc is very evil, but not stupid.
Far from it.

WarGamer

(11,640 posts)
40. Easy line to draw.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:06 PM
Oct 2023

No US lives in danger.
Arm Ukraine... help with intel... no US lives in the line of fire.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
42. Except we do have American lives on the line now.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:37 PM
Oct 2023

We have American hostages held by HAMAS.

HAMAS is a friend of Iran. Iran and Russia are allies.

Like it or not.

But I hear your point. I agree no military lives should be in combat zone danger.

Except I am old enough to remember my dad and my friends' fathers flying combat
in Viet Nam and some getting shot down. But they were just "advisors."
No boots on the ground so they said.

quakerboy

(13,873 posts)
37. I feel like this was poor timing and a bad choice, if so
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 04:18 PM
Oct 2023

Israel was busily tearing itself apart, best i cant tell. Autocrats ruled, israel was fence sitting re the russian war on ukraine, and Netenyahoo was dismantling israeli unity day by day.

I cant see how this attack does anything but bring Israeli's back towards unity. And if anyone can find russian fingerprints in it..

housecat

(3,119 posts)
41. Good post. There was once a wider gap between the autocratic bloc and American populations.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:09 PM
Oct 2023

Americans have enjoyed relatively widespread education and a chance to control their own lives. Russia, China, and North Korea have never had freedom, but instead have had enormous populations of poor prisoners under the yoke of the regime. Until the U.S. population could be dumbed down to look more like the autocratic prison-countries, it would continue to be difficult to control. Large chunks of the population needed to be brainwashed to form a cult. Only a cult of millions could erase progress and replace it with racism and hate.

Putin saw this, and he set out to poison the minds of millions of Americans. The most dangerous tool we could give Putin was tfg, who had been cultivated do the job for decades. It was all done in plain sight, and Americans didn't even blink. We underestimated our enemies and overestimated our rules, because our enemies never played by our rules, and they never will. Nothing will change until Democrats admit that brains are only useful if we use them. And understand that different is different.

Yet I am optimistic, because in spite of the complex and monstrous forces against freedom and Democracy, we are still here. Under unimaginable pressure to turn us into a fascist theocracy, we are surviving. The sacrifice of 40 million voters to the dark side hasn't destroyed us. Putin only had access to substandard Americans for the task, and he found Republicans who would gladly sell their souls. They don't understand us, but we understand them. If we start growing spines and using brains we will succeed, at least until the young people can all vote, and the old white magats die.

Irish_Dem

(43,886 posts)
45. Well said. Yes exactly what Putin has done.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:04 PM
Oct 2023

Dumb down the US population by any means possible.
Ban books, kill education, make college unaffordable, etc.
With the help of his GOP puppets.

Right Americans don't even blink or connect dots.
And they are loving Putin and Russia.
The fascist GOP is turning the US into a Russian colony.

I agree, democracy is not going down without a huge fight.

Humans are wired for freedom I believe and will fight to the death for it.

bdamomma

(63,223 posts)
47. I learned
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:30 PM
Oct 2023

something from reading your post. I thank you for digging deep and bringing into our consciousness.

bluestarone

(16,346 posts)
44. I hate to some what agree with you.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:20 PM
Oct 2023

The ROOTS of pooty and TFG (possibly China) grow deeply into our country. I don't know what will happen, BUT 2/3rds of our House seems to support TFG! Very SCARY shit for sure. Might even be their (pooty, TFG, China) final attempt to put that nail in Americas coffin. BE READY!

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