The May Incident, and why TFGs leak of Submarine Secrets is Potentially Gravely Damaging

[Best_man23]

The May Incident is reference to Congressman Andrew May who was a Democratic Congressman from Kentucky. During World War II, he was the Chairman of the House Military Affairs Committee (predecessor to today's House Armed Services Committee). In June 1943, Congressman May returned from a tour of American bases in the Pacific Theater of Operations. At a press conference, May revealed that American submarines could dive much deeper than the Japanese had realized. So the Japanese had been setting their depth charges at far too shallow a depth. Some equally irresponsible reporters and (most likely) lazy editors at several newspapers allowed this information to be published.

"This rash disclosure of classified Naval information may have directly resulted in the loss of 10 American submarines and 800 sailors."

US Vice Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, commander of the US submarine fleet in the Pacific, said with much sarcasm, “I hear Congressman May said the [Japanese] depth charges are not set deep enough. He would be pleased to know that the [Japanese] set them deeper now.”

So, if you hear MAGAts say that TFG's leaking secrets about US submarine capability is all to do about nothing, tell them about the May Incident, because this was a real life example of the phrase "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS."

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/the-may-incident-of-june-1943.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._May

[Tanuki]

1. Thank you! This is another reason I love DU...I always learn something

I would not have known otherwise, because we have such a well informed community who are happy to share their knowledge and expertise!

[Lonestarblue]

2. Excellent post. I was not aware of the May incident.

I know that Mar-a-Lago is a business, but I hope the FBI has found a way to investigate every one of its members for ties to foreign governments. It’s so obviously easy for Russia spies to infiltrate and then have Trump sell or share US intelligence with Putin. After this breach of sharing top-secret information with a foreigner, Trump should be forced to close the club or move to another residence permanently to remove his access to potential spies. Jeez, he has sold out this country over and over and is still doing so.

[Farmer-Rick]

3. Yea, when I was a new Ensign I heard this account frequently

It was used as a cautionary tale for when we handled classified information. I had forgotten it.

It just boggles my mind how Trump and his administration were so absolutely careless and irresponsible with our nation's top secrets. I mean writing grocery lists on the back of secret documents? Using top secrets as party chit chat? Putin has all our top secrets now. I wonder what else they plan to do with them?

[gratuitous]

23. Careless and irresponsible is one way to put it

Criminal is another way, and if we had just one system of justice in this country, the defendant would be looking at the world through iron bars. This is the problem with installing a totally ignorant tyro in the Oval Office. He doesn't know or care for the rules, he's an authority on everything unto himself, and since nobody in his family has any governmental or military experience at all, he's simply ignorant of his responsibilities (which is no excuse). When someone points out his failings, he rants and raves about how unfair everything is and simply walks away from the mess he's made.

You're 100% right: Putin has all our top secrets now, and our intelligence agencies will be working for years to undo even some of the damage the defendant's administration caused.

[bringthePaine]

4. Beenadick Donald - this demands the harshest punishment law allows

[tanyev]

5. Yes, but Donny knew something he could use to impress an actual billionaire!

This is why that childish POS should have never been allowed anywhere near the presidency. Effing Republican traitors.

[Blues Heron]

6. Interesting both siderism- gotta go WAY back to find dirt on dems

[Layzeebeaver]

8. I disagree

Completely NOT that.

It is a historical account that brings to life a persistent warning - And a real world example of how a specific incident of failure to follow secrecy policy can and HAS led to tragic loss of life, REGARDLESS of any “side”.

[Blues Heron]

9. Cool story bro

[Layzeebeaver]

15. It is interesting. And compelling.

Not sure I would personally call or “cool” but what the hey… we all have our individual ways of interpreting and commenting 😉

[Whatthe_Firetruck]

43. What he means by that...

"Cool story, bro" means 'yeah, yeah, whatever'. He's saying he doesn't believe you.

[Layzeebeaver]

48. I think you are right.

[chowder66]

22. +1

[RVN VET71]

46. Also, please note that Southern Democrats switched to the Republican Party. . .

after the Civil Rights bill were made law. So it would be flat wrong to equate his foolish public revelation about our WWI submarine fleet with any policy or political leaning of the current Democratic Party. (The son-of-a-beaver would probably by a MAGA Republican today, in any case.)

Regardless. May could have been a flaming Liberal and still would have deserved public ignominy for his stupid f***ing blab to the world, including the Japanese, about our WWII submarines.

[rurallib]

17. man are you ever reaching

[Blues Heron]

18. I dont think so

[Layzeebeaver]

24. I think it would in an interesting discussion to explore why this might be considered bothsidism

Personally (as I have stated) I don't think it is.

But I'm up to have a civil debate about this, and I'm sure others may be as well.

[Blues Heron]

25. Its textbook both-siderism

[Layzeebeaver]

28. actually it isn't in my opinion

why don't you provide your best example and explanation as to what it is text book?

[Blues Heron]

31. Finding an example of a dem doing the same thing Trump did is the very definition of both siderism

Whoever dug up that story certainly had to go back a ways though, too funny.

[Whatthe_Firetruck]

44. The congress person being a Dem isn't the point.

The message would be the same if they were a republican.

OP's point isn't "both sides do it", but "this is a bad thing no matter who does it".

[Blues Heron]

45. Im sure its just a coincidence

thanks for explaining it!

[Layzeebeaver]

49. the irony here is that (IMHO) your replies are fueling an unsupportable theme of bothsiderism

It's actually a telling example of "trolling against the facts".

To be clear, this is not a personal attack. It is observation of your posts, reading the facts around both incidents and then coming to a conclusion.

I don't think I'm the only one who senses this.

[NBachers]

36. Beware of hemorrhoids

[NBachers]

34. Man are they ever trolling

[NickB79]

40. I'm gonna agree

The May Incident was once common WW2 history, hardly something one would have to dig up. But until this thread, I've never heard anyone bring Mayfield's political affiliation into the discussion, because it was immaterial.

Beware of seeing connections where none exist.

[NBachers]

33. No

no

[Blues Heron]

35. yes

clearly

[Ohioboy]

7. I think the right-wing media in this country needs to be reminded of May

Along with leaking things they shouldn't, they often promote the idea that America is weak, which serves to diminish morale and pride in our country.

They also do their best to make problems worse. Saying things like "America's border is wide open" is an example.

[IronLionZion]

10. Even if the Australian civilian doesn't do anything with it

China or Russia can find out and use it against us.

[Demsrule86]

11. It became well known by at least 100 people. Of course the Russians and the Chinese would

have known. Trump is a traitor who share classified military documents with a person who was not from this country and obviously had no right to hear about them. I wonder what else he has disclosed? Trump should be locked up for the rest of his miserable life.

[IronLionZion]

13. Yes, also Australia doesn't view China as an enemy like we do

they have a friendlier relationship with China so we should be very careful about what we share with Australians.

[Demsrule86]

16. That is right.

[Prairie_Seagull]

12. As a long past ASW sailor whos brother was a submariner.

The thought that tfg could have released this type of info to our adversaries is particularly upsetting to me. To this day my brother and I know stuff we don't ever talk about even between he and I.

He is a RWer so we don't talk much anyway. Anti-submarine-warfare and a Submariner. Hell maybe it was in the cards.

[AllaN01Bear]

14. looked it up and the full phrase is loose lips might sink ships.

[sdfernando]

19. Great example

I had forgotten about this incident. I remember it now being taught in one of my history classes.

I hope the prosecution brings this up during trial and again emphasizes it during closing arguments. It is a powerful example!

[republianmushroom]

20. 32 months and counting

He not only had the doc's , but he shared them.

[Stargazer99]

21. Trump is a traitor and you idot Republicans are reponsible for possibly destroying this nation

[Shipwack]

26. This submariner thanks you for the reminder of this story. nt

[Blue Owl]

27. Loose anus lips with a constant flow of liquid shit spewing out of them

That would be Diarrhea Donny...

[True Blue American]

29. Meanwhile a Military man was just arrested, charged with trying to leak info to China!

[RussBLib]

30. why now?

What I wonder is, why is this info released now? Who released it? Did someone leak this to the press?

I'd guess there are many, many other examples of Trump's carelessness with our secrets. Are we going to learn about them one incident at a time?

[Bev54]

42. I suspect it came from the Australian side, whether he or one of his employees etc.

He has been questioned at least a couple of times by Smith and that is in the story. We know it wasn't Smith that leaked but a witness has no requirement not to discuss their grand jury testimony. If he was telling everyone about what Trump told him about the subs, then no doubt he was telling people about his testimony as well.

[usonian]

32. When I was on mailroom duty, we were informed that a classified document was missing, somewhere.

Last edited Fri Oct 6, 2023, 05:47 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't know what happened as a result (submarines being relocated? ) but the entire service was on high alert until it was found behind someone else's file cabinet.

This is so f-ing serious, and abuse always results in a visit from lots of heavily armed agents.

ALMOST always.

This only happens to be the biggest espionage breach in US history. IMO

I imagine that anyone who served or held a civilian clearance and honored the rules must be ripshit effing mad.

[Delphinus]

38. Indeed.

And I haven't heard much about it being the biggest espionage breach in US history.

[usonian]

39. I added an IMO.

I read through a rogue's gallery of the 24 or so greatest espionage cases in US history and took a stab at the order of magnitude.

Casual conversations and dead drops beneath mailboxes didn't seem to compare with boxes and boxes worth --- we don't know how much was leaked, but for certain all of that was stolen, and none of the ones I read about stole moving van's worth.

And this was at the highest level, Special access required, except for one person.

So, regard it as opinion until proven, but I'd bet on it.

I didn't post at the time:
Worst Cases of Espionage in US History
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/worst-cases-of-espionage-in-us-history/ss-AA1fVUay#image=26 (sample from that site)
Aldrich Ames, David Sheldon Boone, Jerry Alfred Whitworth, Clyde Lee Conrad (NCO, spied for 14 years, got life in prison), John Anthony Walker, Jr. (led a spy ring, life sentence), Robert Philip Hanssen, former FBI agent and double agent for 22 years (and with a charming smile), Dongfan Chung (spied 27 years ar Rockwell and Boeing), Robert Stephan Lipka (Responsible for shredding or otherwise destroying documents, Lipka kept many of them and presented himself to the Soviet Embassy in D.C.), George Trofimoff ( U.S. Army Reserve colonel, spied for 31 years), Larry Wu-Tai Chin (linguist and CIA employee who spied for more than 30 years,), and

"allegedly" Donald Trump, indicted for the mishandling of thousands of classified documents known to date.

The bigger the slime, the bigger the crime.
And he wants to shoot looters (shades of Watts)


----------
A note or two on Hanssen:
https://www.distractify.com/p/robert-hanssen-children

Hanssen had six children in total, three girls and three boys. ... The entire family attended Mass every week, and they were very active in Opus Dei. All three of his sons attended an all-boys prep school in Maryland called The Heights School, while his daughters attended Oakcrest School for Girls in Vienna, Va. Both schools are associated with Opus Dei.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/07/1180665283/robert-hanssen-called-the-most-destructive-spy-in-u-s-history-dies-at-79

WEINER: Hanssen was a third-generation Chicago cop. His father and grandfather before him were crooked cops, and he knew that. And as he told one of his debriefers after his arrest, the bar wasn't too high for me. He joined the FBI in '76. By '79, he was an active spy for the Kremlin. And off and on over the next 22 years, he kept spying. And when he was on, he was indeed the most devastating spy in the bureau's history. He was like a 500-year flood, this guy.

... among the many things he gave up were the identities of all the Soviets and Russians spying for the United States, the fact that the FBI was tunneling under the new Soviet Embassy to tap into its communications, all the methodologies by which the United States tried to spy on the Soviets, the plans for World War III for the United States, who goes where, who does what.



MARTIN: How did he get away with it for so long?
WEINER: Because he was hiding in plain sight. His job was to analyze the FBI's spying operations against the Soviets.

[LiberalFighter]

37. Not sure if it was on Jose at MSNBC that I heard it.

But James Stavridis, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO I believe provided information during the telecast that I don't think he should have revealed. Even though it was general in information I still thought it was too much.

[Snackshack]

41. I see nothing...

“potentially” about this. It happened, it’s done and whatever was secret now must be considered completely blown.

Anything he read or was briefed on while in office must be considered suspect at best totally compromised at worst. There no way this idiot would / could keep his mouth shut. Especially w/ DTs unending need to want to be seen as VIP, world leader, someone on the inside not like the “little people” and this type of material
does just that, it also can bring in a generous amount of campaign donations for a gop presidential front runner…

Ex-president or not this should’ve never been allowed to go this far. Soon as the government confirmed National Secrets had been stolen/compromised and divulged to others every address attached to DT should have been searched to get the documents back and DT should have been arrested. Pretty much what has happened to every other person who has ever been caught doing this like Ames, Walker and Hanssen.

[Tickle]

47. The link took me to WWII history lesson

What happened to the link?