I hate to spoil everyone's fun, but people are misinterpreting the NY Trump ruling...

[brooklynite]

First and foremost, the Trump Org and its affiliates and their assets are not being seized by NYS, so "is Trump still a Billionaire" questions are meaningless at this point. The corporate entities will be dissolved, but their assets and liabilities will be transferred to the corporate owners (Trump and family) who will transfer them to some new out of State entity.

Second, however much Trump is determined to have defrauded the State and private entities, this is solely a lawsuit on behalf of the State, and the requested penalty amount (subject to further litigation) is $250 M. Where that payment comes from is presumably up to Trump and family. And any private entity which feels it was defrauded would have to file separately.

[PJMcK]

1. Thank you

We all want to see Trump destroyed.

But this is a civil case and as you point out, Trump will transfer the assets out of state.

Still, a win is a win. It’s been a while since Trump has prevailed at court. Sucks to be him!

[WarGamer]

8. Just like a perennial 0-17 football team.

[Grins]

37. I think his problem is he can't make money in the state...

…from his rental units that he can’t move out of state. That WHACKS his income, and without that income he may not be able to pay his bills.

[Sky Jewels]

80. Speaking of getting whacked...

it's a shame the NY/NJ mafia didn't pay him a "friendly visit" long ago...

[obamanut2012]

87. Except he is not allowed to transfer assets, and has been stopped from doing so already

[louis-t]

2. His worshipers will give him the 250 mil.

No problem.

[Wednesdays]

12. Fine by me.

His worshipers don't have infinite funds, and that $250 million is $250 million less to fund his campaign, or any other Repugs' campaigns for that matter.

[lame54]

55. The Trump tax

[Recycle_Guru]

3. though true, my understand some of the sanctions

may include barring them from doing business in New York which would also be a win.

[viva la]

4. Can he still do business in NY?

It will be hard to move Trump Tower.

[bigtree]

5. I don't understand why you think people here who think this is 'fun' need scolding

...who is this post supposed to be contradicting?

It's consequential enough that Trump has already LOST on several counts in this case, and sanctioned trump's attorneys, as well, all BEFORE the start of the trial.

Anyone who wants to celebrate that should do so, and as boisterously as they please, because this is indeed a victory against Trump and his sons who have been taunting the prosecutor and gaslighting Americans over this.

Besides, there's still a trial to go, and the Ag's case is greatly enhanced by these rulings narrowing the scope of the trial she has to win.

AG James’ lawsuit is asking the court to impose a range of penalties on Trump and his sons, including barring Trump from engaging in any commercial real estate acquisitions for five years, blocking him and his children from serving as officers or directors in any New York business, in addition to forcing the defendants to pay an approximately $250 million fine.

This will greatly complicate his ability to transact real estate deals, and should also put a chill on his ability to be regarded by investors as a responsible developer.

It's not everything, but it's important to establish that this con man is nothing more than a convicted fraud.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

6. Great post

Thank you

[MorbidButterflyTat]

14. +1

Trillion. If anyone doubts this is debilitating to t****, check this out:

Link to tweet

Gums aka Beevis and/or Butthead is also shilling on twitter for a daddy who despises him.



You are becoming one of my favorite posters.

[Disaffected]

20. Heh, Drump thinks Maro Logo

could be worth almost $1.8 billion. Sounds like he is still busily, and absurdly, inflating the value of his properties.

[Conjuay]

83. "If they can do this to me, they can do it to you"

Fine.

Take my golf courses, I’m getting tired of mowing them anyway.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Agree, I am listening to a TikTok live, with a lawyer reading the entire judgement --so interesting

This is NOT inconsequential. Nor is it ‘fun’

[senseandsensibility]

21. This!

Thanks for taking the time to put this into words.

[crimycarny]

29. Ugh--thank you!

I know we're all frustrated with Trump never seeming to be held accountable for anything, but can we at least allow ourselves SOME "fun" when we see victories like this (regardless of how big or small)?

Geezus, I'll take what I can get right now.

[ForgedCrank]

70. From my

view, I think it is prompted by posts such as "Trump Org is over and done" and other misguided and false info.
This is certainly bad news for Trump, but it simply isn't as it is being sold by some, and those who don't really know the details of what is going on will think it's actually true. Trump's businesses are not over and done.
And I agree, have fun and enjoy, I know I am. But enjoy what is real. We all need to continually evaluate who we get our information from and question it all, even if that requires reading some things that are uncomfortable.

[malaise]

31. Most excellent

[HAB911]

63. Thank you!

[triron]

72. I was not surprised who the author (of the original post) is.

[H2O Man]

74. Right.

It's a step in the right direction. While the OP is correct, it does not contain every option, nor every potential benefit. Though we need not count our dinosaurs before they hatch, that doesn't leave being a smug Eeyore as the only option.

[malaise]

76. Ask Slobby if yesterday was a big deal- his demented response speaks,volumes

[H2O Man]

77. Yes.

It provides a far more accurate measure than the OP.

[malaise]

78. I would hope so

😀

[BeyondGeography]

7. Oh c'mon

You’re our self-appointed fun spoiler. Own it.

Sometimes I even agree with you.

[Demsrule86]

10. Do you? Surprisingly, I do not.

Hope you are well.

[BeyondGeography]

18. Fine as can be hoped for, thank you

Hope you are well too.

[Demsrule86]

23. I have done really well...46 days in the hospital almost didn't make it...had a bad aortic valve.

I was born with it. I had open heart surgery. Thank God I live in Ohio...we have Cleveland Clinic, UH, and Metro. My surgery was done at UH. I feel great and may come off the eliquis any day now. My surgeon says I don't need it but he has to consult with the other doctors. I have so many doctors. I never even took pills until July of 22 when I had COVID-19... which probably helped destroy my valve. By January I could not walk across the room.

Today, I feel great. I swim most days and am following a WW diet...25 lbs and I reach my goal. I want to go into my later years as healthy as possible. Anyway, I consider myself very fortunate. Considering that this is not that unusual. I think people should be tested once they reach their 50s. Had this been caught sooner, I would not have had the heart damage which I am told is healing.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

25. Glad you feel better!

After my bout with covid earlier this year, I had to get physical therapy as I could only walk a few steps after I became covid negative, now I can do my morning walk. And now I have an enlarged heart which is being checked-so glad for the vaccines and paxlovid, it could have been worse

[BeyondGeography]

27. Inspiring

I know you’ll stick with it because I know how strong you are, just from our interactions here. You have a total fan in NY.

[Sky Jewels]

79. Ha ha, my thought exactly.

Posting bad news and "Dems are doomed!" polls is his jam.

[obamanut2012]

88. .....

Yup.

[Demsrule86]

9. Really the term dissolution is in the order...He was found guilty basically.

[dpibel]

11. You could be a great internet lawyer

Yeah. I know your wife is a megapowered tall-building attorney.

But your legal analysis is often, to put it very gently, shaky.

So I will assuredly take your legal opinion as seriously as those of all the other internet-only lawyers.

[brooklynite]

32. My wife is a public servant at the Treasury Department...

...and I can read a Court ruling.

Consider: if the Court was going to seize every last asset of Trump Org, don't you think this would be slightly bigger story?

[dpibel]

36. Who is this man of straw of whom you speak?

Was there someone on DU somewhere who said the court had seized every last asset of Trump Org?

That would clearly be a silly thing, and thank god you are here to call it out (even for those of us who did not see this "every last asset" assertion)!

So if you're offering a corrective for some extremist position, well, bully!

But really. This is a major development. It is a major win for James. It really does dissolve the Trump business entities.

So what is it that compels you to pretend that this is no big deal?

Or to lecture the lesser mortals?

[brooklynite]

42. In other threads, people have been talking about...

...."Is Trump still a millionaire"?

...."what about his plane"?

...."what about Trump Tower"?

And no it doesn't dissolve Trump's business entities. It dissolves his businesses IN NEW YORK. As I said, the assets aren't seized by the State, so they revert to the corporate owners of Trump Org., e.g. the Trumps. Outside the the $250 M likely to be assessed, the assets will be put into a new Trump-owned company elsewhere.

[dpibel]

45. You are a funny guy

Really. You should consider standup.

[Recycle_Guru]

56. go check the records. all of his many entities (even in other states)

are under 2 main umbrellas-

Two of the companies named in the order, DJT Holdings LLC and DJT Holdings Managing Member LLC, "sit at the top of the Trump Organization's organizational chart and together own many of the Trump-affiliated entities that comprise the Trump Organization," the judge noted in his 35-page ruling.

"DJT Holdings Managing Member LLC owns 100% of the Trump Organization, and DJT Holdings LLC owns 100% of the Trump Organization LLC," the order continues.

So all of his "empire" is under 2 New York entities--much of his operational business is occurring in New York. It will be very challenging for him to maintain assets in the state of New York. Judge has already barred him from shuffling assets to new entities he or his sons own.

This is a very big deal.

[Recycle_Guru]

53. lol

[Fiendish Thingy]

13. The biggest remaining question for me is:

Are Trump and his sons actually prohibited from conducting any business in NY?

Does that mean Trump’s name will be removed from Trump tower?

Does Trump operate any other hotels or properties in NY? What happens to them?

[spooky3]

15. If I understood correctly, attorney Lisa Rubin just said

A receiver would determine what would happen to the assets. (MSNBC)

See also: https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-liable-fraud-new-york-civil-case-2023-09-26/

[obamanut2012]

89. Correct, the OP is mistaken

Trump has already tried to transfer assets and was stopped. He has no control over any of this, nor his family, unless they win on appeal, which they won't. It says it right in the decision, so I do not know what OP is talking about.

Ignore me, but look to see what non-MAGAT fiancial attorneys, etc. are saying: Trump cannot transfer anything.

[spooky3]

93. TY nt

[obamanut2012]

95. NP!

[malaise]

16. Today's ruling is a

BIG FUCKING DEAL.
That is all.

[tavernier]

26. Lots of well known legal eagles on news networks

have chimed in tonight to say exactly those words.
With emphasis.

[getagrip_already]

17. I don't belive you are anywhere near correct.....

The businesses have been dissolved and are are in receivership pending determination of damages.

The damages the da is seeking are termed as a "minimum" of $250M, not exactly that amount. It could actually be closer to $1.6B.

Even after assets are liquidated to satisfy the damage award, no member of the suit will be able to do business in ny again. If any assets remain, they will be sold snd the money will be returned, but will not be allowed to be invested in nys.

None will be left over if the award approaches $700M. Probably much less. There is a lot of debt on those properties. Nys will have to claw out the unfulfilled damages.

This is a disaster for the family.

[obamanut2012]

90. OP is incorrect

[brush]

22. Isn't that 250M a conservative figure and it's likely to be much more?

[sinkingfeeling]

24. I guess he'll move everything to Florida.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

35. How's he gonna

move t**** tower from NY to Florida?

[former9thward]

47. Very easily.

Its called selling it.

[dpibel]

50. Does he control it

when it's in the hands of a receiver?

Just kinda wondering.

[Recycle_Guru]

57. no. he is fucked

[former9thward]

64. The receiver just can't do anything they want.

And the proceeds go to the Trump organization.

[bigtree]

66. one thing that may be overlooked

...are the financial obligations of those business entities.

The money will first go to pay off debts incurred by those businesses, and should be available for claims against the businesses for breach of contract and other financial shortcomings as a result of the fraud Trump participated in and was found guilty of.

[obamanut2012]

97. The Trumps can't do a damned thing, and they won't be seeing much money

It does not go to the Trumps, it goes to debts first, including court judgements. Not exactly like Madoff, but similar.

[former9thward]

105. There is no court judgment.

That will come later.

[ProfessorGAC]

100. And, Buyers Aren't Stupid

Knowing the asset must be liquidated eliminates any asset value enhancement that may or may not exist.
I think some big money bargain hunters will shoot for 70 cents on the dollar bargains. Or at least start there.
I see few of these assets going for current appraisal (real) and nowhere near the fabricated book values decalred by the DJT LLC.
Yes, the proceeds go to the organization owners, but I don't see full value as likely.

[spooky3]

101. Of course, they will have to shove Saudi royalty aside

TFG argued that his assets were worth what he claimed because they would buy the assets whenever he wanted.
.

[ProfessorGAC]

103. Which We Know Is Nonsense

First the LIV money is for sanitizing their public image. Overspending for assets related to criminal activity seems counter to that plan.
Secondly, they aren't going to pay 4, 5, 10x and wait 25 years for value to come to parity.
That's just a fabulist's rationalization for hyperinflating asset value.
Third, what's in it for them to overpay? TFG is not a lock to be POTUS again. There's zero assurance they would benefit from this.
Finally, if the Saudis really were willing to pay multiples of assessed value, he would have taken them up on it already. It would be bad business to hold assets worth less than someone is willing to pay.
The Saudis are nobody to root for, but they're not idiots. He made this up.

[obamanut2012]

96. He isn't allowed to -- he and his family and minions have zero control over his assets

Zero.

He cannot transfer, sell, move, etc. the assets.

[former9thward]

104. The assets can be sold.

The property was not confiscated.

[obamanut2012]

91. He is not allowed -- he is barred from moving assests

It is in the summary decision.

He has already tried it. The OP is wrong.

[LowerManhattanite]

28. LOL.

[dpibel]

30. Question from a lesser mortal

Do you really hate to (try to) spoil everyone's fun?

Or is that drollery?

[brooklynite]

33. Reality sucks; but I find its a better way to look at facts.

[The Magistrate]

34. As A Practioner Of The Art, Sir, I Suspect Drollery

I am always hesitant to accuse a man of sincerity....

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

82. Hm.

Maybe my allergies are bothering me more than I realized. I was picking up a strong stench of pomposity.

But, like I said, allergies and all that.

[Captain Zero]

38. I heard the businesses will go into the hands of "receivers"

what do they do? slice and dice up the assets to anyone who is owed and then hand the rest over to the rumps?

[brooklynite]

44. None of Trump Orgs liabilities are immediately called in...

...they are transferred, with the asserts, to the owners of the dissolved corporations, eg. Trump and family.

[Recycle_Guru]

58. you are so wrong

[obamanut2012]

98. lol that is the opposite of what will be happening

You are completely mistaken.

[maxrandb]

39. Sure Jan

[link:http://

?feature=shared|

[DemocraticPatriot]

40. I have to disagree on one minor point---

and that is that you DO like to 'spoil everyone's fun', that has been repeatedly demonstrated




(not that everyone's "fun" should NOT be spoiled with reality, on some occasions...)



As for the current post, I have no idea what you are talking about,
so I cannot dispute what you say about it...


But Trump DID actually "touch" a gun while under indictment!!!!

(I am frantically searching the law books to support that this was a 'crime',
but so far I have come up empty...)

[brooklynite]

43. Touching a gun is not "possession" when the gun is, at the time, owned by the store.

[DemocraticPatriot]

46. Yes, that was my own opinion...

Perhaps I should have used a snark button

[FakeNoose]

41. The Trump Organization consists of the 3 remaining siblings, am I right?

Donald's 2 brothers are dead, as are the parents, so the only ones left are Donald and his two sisters. It's a family-owned business and no stock was ever sold or given outside of the family.

The two sisters, Marianne Trump Barry and Elizabeth Trump Grau could decide to gang up and vote against their brother, seeing as how he's done such an awful job of running the family business. Or they could decide to sell off the assets and shut down the business, effectively putting him out of a job. You have to wonder how these two sisters have been able to sit back and watch their family name and reputation dragged through the mud all these years.

My point is that all 3 siblings get a vote. It's not just Donald's company.

[herding cats]

48. Who said anything was being seized?

I missed all that. This is a summary judgement which did take away the Trump's ability to do business in NY. Which is great. It also helps pave the way for the civil case against the Trump business entities there. Also, good.

Beyond that, are you sure you "hate to spoil everyone's fun?" Because I seriously doubt that's an honest statement. To my eyes, you love to brag, and you relish peeing in those you see as beneath yourself's Cheerios. It's kind of a hobby for you. I get that.

I grew up around folks like you. I get you to my core. My extended family tosses money at issues and politicians and are petted for their donations. It makes them feel elite and above others. They're special within their donors circles, that's true. But, all their super power consists of is rubbing elbows with politicians and political elites and tossing out money. I've never seen a one of them register voters, volunteer as a poll worker or knock on a single door to engage a potential voter. They don't do the work. They toss money and then feel superior.

I'm not saying you don't have a niche, you do, but your niche isn't so much bigger than the army of foot soldiers who work their butts off every election doing the hard work out there. Yet, you relish thinking you're making these folks, and the ones like myself who organize them to win elections, feel smaller than you. We're not. Your ego has been fed by those seeking your monies, but without us who do the work, your money does little to nothing. Those advertisements they tell you are owning the day? They tell us won't work if we don't follow up. That's just a fact.

[dpibel]

49. Oh, you lesser mortal!

You just wait cuz you're gonna hear very soon about how somebody useta be a big time on the ground organizer a long time ago and that means he now has his ear to the ground when he is attending all the invitation-only soirees and getting the inside scuttlebut from the really impordunt people and you are, after all, just a jealous person who knows nothing.

And besides: Trump is still like a billionaire. So there!!1!

[Moosepoop]

52. That was awesome.

I think I need a cigarette after that post!

[dalton99a]

54. +1

[Sky Jewels]

81. +2

[honest.abe]

62. Hehe

[obamanut2012]

92. well done

[malaise]

60. Nailed it

[Spazito]

61. Perfect response....

[maxrandb]

67. I thought my "Sure Jan" post was good

But My God! Thank you for this.

I am going to borrow your post the next time some sanctimonious dipshit pisses in my Wheaties.

[Snooper9]

73. interesting

I didn't know you were allowed to call other people dipshit on this site....


Thanks for the info!

[Recycle_Guru]

108. the poster was speaking in future tense

was not calling any current poster anything. your imagination is getting the better of you.

[Snooper9]

110. negative

when you say "next time"

That implies that it has happened in the past...(be it minutes or hours or days)

"next time some sanctimonious dipshit pisses in my Wheaties"

[moonshinegnomie]

51. i wonder if the decision means the NJ could pull his liquor licenses

most states have very strict rules for licensees and could probbaly revoke them based on this court decision. imagine if no one could buy alcohol at trumps NJ golf course.

[malaise]

59. Just like this one - you won't join in with the cheering that he is a rapist

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217898350
Why I won't join in with the cheering that Trump is "Guilty" of "Rape".

I'm happy that E Jeanne Carroll has had justice, and Trump's anti-social behavior is now a matter of public record. But in spending time discussing issues here and on social media, I've learned the that good communications is based on a common understanding of "language". Words have specific meanings, which is why we have a lot of different ones. When I write or say something, I want the meaning to be clear. Trump isn't GUILTY, because "guilty" is a status that is derived from a "conviction" in a "criminal trial". And he was found to have committed SEXUAL ASSAULT because "rape" is a version of sexual assault which has a specific definition that wasn't asserted by Carroll and wasn't proven by the jury. I'll stick with the actual terms.

And then we got this from the WP no less

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

———

[dalton99a]

68. +1. "Trump is an authoritarian or fascist"? Hmmm. "Traitor"? Heavens, NO! Define "treason"!

He is just a strict New York businessman with very, very good Russian connections

[H2O Man]

75. Exactly.

If a person commits a rape, but is not arrested, tried, and convicted, it does not mean he is not a rapist. The post you quoted from is a sad but telling example of concrete thinking.

[spooky3]

102. right again --and what he did clearly is in the scope as federal law

defines the term.

[malaise]

106. Correct is right

Turn on Ari

[Rob H.]

65. Your actual take, or copied & pasted from X/Twitter? nt

[BannonsLiver]

69. This thread went very well, I think.

[Demsrule86]

71. How condescending...just trying to educate lesser mortals I guess...

Perhaps, you might go back and look at some of the posts that you made during Fetterman's primary and general election...and we didn't have a red wave now in favor of the Gop, did we? The polls showing that women had moved on after DOBS and that no one cared about January 6th which you defended, Well you are wrong, exit polls, demonstrated clearly that these were the top two issues. I could go on but I see little purpose. All good news is met by you with doom and gloom.

[honest.abe]

84. NY Times: The decision dealt Mr. Trump a major blow.

Ms. James had sought to bar Mr. Trump from doing business in New York, in part by canceling certificates that allow his properties to operate there. Justice Engoron granted that punishment, which could have enormous repercussions for the Trump Organization.

For example, Mr. Trump could lose control of several properties, including Trump Tower in Midtown Manhattan and a flagship commercial building at 40 Wall Street. His grip over his Westchester County golf club is also threatened. At one point in his order, Justice Engoron referred to the limited liability companies that he had shut down as “the canceled LLCs.”

Mr. Trump's family business itself has not been dissolved. Although popularly known as the Trump Organization, it actually comprises hundreds of entities, many of which were not named as defendants in the lawsuit. But the decision could still have a sweeping impact, with the potential to shut down an entity that employs hundreds of people working for Mr. Trump in New York.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/27/nyregion/trump-fraud-trial-ny-ruling.html

[edhopper]

85. Besides the cash judgement which would be $250 millin

at a minimum, and the taking away of business licenses, and the permanent State overseeing of all his business.
The civil case does not preclude further criminal charges, charges that Manhattan DA Bragg could have and should have brought.
They also have a Vourt rule that he is guilty of Tax Fraud, which can bring Federal charges.

So yeah, I am dancing over this.

[ananda]

86. The fun will come after the trial.

Heehee

[obamanut2012]

94. OP is mistaken -- the assets cannot be transferred

Like OP, I too can read a summary judgment, and like OP I know many attorneys, including ones who actually handle receiverships.

I also have watched many legitimate financial attorneys and experts stated that OP is mistaken and apparently did not understand the summary judgment.

Trump etal have already tried to transfer assets and it has been halted. Trump etal will have NO control over this. None. Zilch.

[Voltaire2]

99. Well this did not turn out quite as expected, did it?

Anyway this op certainly upped the fun level here. Thanks!

[Recycle_Guru]

107. yep

gotta keep things entertaining

after enough DC soirees hobnobbing with the powerful, DU environs can feel downright pedestrian

[NowISeetheLight]

109. Fire Sale

They can liquidate it all and sell it... hopefully at fire sale prices. It sure won't be at what he fraudulently valued them at.