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mitch96

(13,979 posts)
2. "but oh the suffering." I know Ukraine plays the amount of KIA close to the vest.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:09 PM
Sep 2023

I wonder what percent of the Ukraine population has been killed in this senseless war?
All for the ego of a little dictator.. uff
m

TheRealNorth

(9,514 posts)
3. Some wars need to be fought.....
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:13 PM
Sep 2023

And we should support Ukraine as long as they are willing to fight to secure their freedom.

mitch96

(13,979 posts)
4. Yes absolutely. Western/NATO weapons and the Ukrainians are at the tip of the spear sadly
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:24 PM
Sep 2023

The repuke party will always dump on anything a democrat wants to say or do so I take them with a grain of salt.
m

getagrip_already

(15,210 posts)
5. It's not really 5% of our budget....
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:50 PM
Sep 2023

A lot of what we gave them was old inventory that we would have eventually have depreciated to zero and left in a desert somewhere, or paid some contractor to dispose of, or yransfered to a police force or some foreign govt at zero cost.

Some equipment did have value, like himars, and patriots, and 777s, and ammunition, but a lot was just surplus old inventory.

So I doubt it was really that high. But even if it was, it was a bargain.

Wonder Why

(3,509 posts)
8. We gain a lot but the Ukrainians are watching their country being destroyed, their army decimated,
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 08:48 PM
Sep 2023

their innocent civilians and their children being murdered and tortured, and their future in shambles.

All it costs us is a little money.

We need to never forget who is paying for this disaster - the Ukrainians, not us nor the other NATO countries.

And it could get far worse for them if the Russians decide to use nuclear weapons.

WarGamer

(12,639 posts)
9. It's war.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 10:00 PM
Sep 2023

No different than a war party of 15 men from the valley crossing into the highlands 30,000 years ago...

Or Alexander the Great in Africa...

Or... well, you know. For as long as there has been human history, there have been wars.

Xolodno

(6,431 posts)
11. Fairly sure some things are being "sensationalized".
Mon Sep 25, 2023, 03:21 AM
Sep 2023

Russia has seven military districts, they are fighting with only one of them, granted they augmented as of late. Nor have they have brought in any of their advanced arsenal in any significant capacity. Furthermore, prior to this war, Russia only spent about 3% of its GDP on military...for the entire country. The aid we/NATO have sent is nearing that 3%.

As of now, they are holding quite well on this latest counter offensive, Ukraine succeeded in the last one dramatically because the Russian lines were too thin, they were expecting for Kiev to fall, now they are consolidating. Worse, a entire generation of Ukrainians are being wiped out, many have fled to other Western nations and are not likely to return. This makes the economics, quite dour for the country once hostilities end. 1.3 Million Ukrainians actually fled to Russia, they are likely to return to the occupied territories to help rebuild (and if you ask my opinion, Putin wasn't seeking arms from NK as he was already getting them, he was asking for cheap labor).

Sure its a nice "feel good" propaganda piece, but its not reality. Ukraine has asked other nations to arrest deserters (can't find the article).

In short, its not going as smoothly as everyone wishes. As we have found out many times before; "The boys will be home by Xmas"; "The Vietcong cannot surmount another offensive"; "Mission Accomplished".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_districts_of_Russia#:~:text=Each%20district%20features%20a%20geographical,based%20in%20the%20respective%20territory.&text=There%20are%20currently%20seven%20military,%2C%20Eastern%2C%20Southern%20and%20Northern.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1312584/ukrainian-refugees-by-country/#:~:text=Nearly%201.3%20million%20refugees%20from,as%20of%20September%203%2C%202023.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65792384

LetMyPeopleVote

(146,564 posts)
12. It's Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia
Sun Oct 1, 2023, 09:10 PM
Oct 2023

For 5.6% of the US defense budget, the US through supplying Ukraine has largely destroyed or crippled Putin's military and has destroyed the myth that Russia is a major military power. In addition Russian weapons have been demonstrated to be unreliable and easy to destroy/



https://cepa.org/article/its-costing-peanuts-for-the-us-to-defeat-russia/

These sums pale into insignificance when set against a total US defense budget of $715bn for 2022. The assistance represents 5.6% of total US defense spending. But Russia is a primary adversary of the US, a top tier rival not too far behind China, its number one strategic challenger. In cold, geopolitical terms, this war provides a prime opportunity for the US to erode and degrade Russia’s conventional defense capability, with no boots on the ground and little risk to US lives.

The Ukrainian armed forces have already killed or wounded upwards of 100,000 Russian troops, half its original fighting force; there have been almost 8,000 confirmed losses of armored vehicles including thousands of tanks, thousands of APCs, artillery pieces, hundreds of fixed and rotary wing aircraft, and numerous naval vessels. US spending of 5.6% of its defense budget to destroy nearly half of Russia’s conventional military capability seems like an absolutely incredible investment. If we divide out the US defense budget to the threats it faces, Russia would perhaps be of the order of $100bn-150bn in spend-to-threat. So spending just $40bn a year, erodes a threat value of $100-150bn, a two-to-three time return.  Actually the return is likely to be multiples of this given that defense spending, and threat are annual recurring events......

Meanwhile, replacing destroyed kit, and keeping up with the new arms race that it has now triggered with the West will surely end up bankrupting the Russian economy; especially an economy subject to aggressive Western sanctions. How can Russia possibly hope to win an arms race when the combined GDP of the West is $40 trillion, and its defense spending amounting to 2% of GDP totals well in excess of $1 trillion when the disproportionate US defense contribution is considered? Russia’s total GDP is only $1.8 trillion. Vladimir Putin will have to divert spending from consumption to defense, risking social and political unrest over the medium term, and a real and soon-to-be present danger to his regime. Just imagine how much more of a bargain Western military aid will be if it ultimately brings positive regime change in Russia.

Second, the war has served to destroy the myth that Russian military technology is somehow comparable to that of the US and West. Remember that Ukraine is using only upgraded second generation US technology but is consistently beating whatever Russia’s military can deploy. Wars are shop windows for defense manufacturers; any buyer in their right mind will want the technology made by the winner. Putin’s misjudgment has merely provided a fantastic marketing opportunity for its Western competitors.  .....

Third, the revelation that Russia’s defense industry is something of a Potemkin village also generates other strategic and diplomatic wins for the US. Countries eager to secure defense capability to meet their own threats – think of Turkey, India, Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia — might have opted for cheaper, “value” Russian defense offerings. However, with the quality/capability of this equipment now being questioned because of poor battlefield performance, they will likely be vying to acquire a better US kit. But this will require improved diplomatic relations. This is currently evident in the improved US–Pakistan relationship, with Pakistan securing upgrade kits for its F-16s.
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