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raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 11:48 AM Jul 2023

Solomon Northup, Frederick Douglass, and Eugene D. Genovese proved that THESE ARE FILTHY LIES!

Last edited Tue Aug 8, 2023, 08:31 AM - Edit history (3)

Florida wants to teach schoolchildren that Black people were well-treated during slavery, that they were fed and clothed and raised from savagery and taught how to be civilized human beings. These are VICIOUS, FILTHY LIES! They were generally treated very poorly, and they were not even allowed to learn how to read and write (this last rule was directly adopted by the would-be aristocracy of the plantation South from the rules that kept the serfs oppressed in medieval Europe, and suggests they DID understand just how equal their captives truly were ). The evidence suggests that SOME "slave-owners" did try to treat their "slaves" well, but they were greatly discouraged by the other "slave-owners" from doing so. And these few were limited also by their warped upbringing in a medieval society based on slavery.

Solomon Northup, in "Twelve Years a Slave," relates how he was drugged, kidnapped, and transported to a slavery state, where he was put up for sale in a large group of Black people. He tells how a white man who bought him seemed to want to do the decent thing but was not able to overcome the vicious nature of a slave-owner society. There was a mother with a little girl in the group, and this white man bought the woman, seeming not to know about the little girl. Northrup explains that the rich sellers could clearly be heard sniggering about their plans to "train" this little girl for immediate sex slavery, and the white buyer seemed to have heard it too. The white buyer at one point tried to buy the little girl, too, but the sellers pompously brushed him off, demanding a high price for her. The white buyer, trained to give deference to his social "betters," gave up and herded Northrup and the poor shocked mother onto a steamer with him to his home, leaving the poor little girl behind to be subjected to painful, degrading, sadistic mistreatment. Oh, the guy tried to do the right thing by his standards. When they reached his farm, he gave the poor mother a few days off to recover from her shock (does anybody here think she ever did?). Northrup tells how this man gave his slaves a dry place to sleep in a little hut and some food to eat every day (whoo hoo for him, eh?). Still, the poor slaves were worked all day until exhausted and starved. And they were expected to SUPPLY MOST OF THEIR OWN FOOD. This white guy tried to do the right thing, but he did not give them enough food. Northrup had grown up a free man in northern New York State farmland, and he taught his fellow slaves how to build fish traps for the nearby river, so they could finally get a decent meal.

Frederick Douglass tells how most of the "slave-owners" he knew tried to give their "slaves" enough to eat, but it was usually just uncooked porridge, etc. Eugene D. Genovese, in his research report book "The Political Economy of Slavery," explained the painstaking research he and his team did, going through multiple records of "slave-owners" and banks and other institutions in the antebellum South. He and his team discovered that THE CALORIC OUTPUT OF THE WORK THAT WAS DOCUMENTED BY THE "SLAVE-OWNERS" FAR OUTWEIGHED THE CALORIC INPUT OF THE FOOD THE "SLAVE-OWNERS" ADMITTED GIVING THEIR SLAVES. The research team discovered, upon further investigation, that the more energetic and innovative "slaves" had conducted a vast underground market system in the wee hours of the morning, which helped more of their fellow "slaves" survive.

As for the Northerners starting a war because of jealousy of the rich Southerners: JUST WHO WAS RICH IN THE SOUTH, EXCEPT THE "ARISTOCRATIC" PLANTATION OWNERS and THEIR BUDDIES? i recall reading, many years ago, the book written by a Northern Abolitionist who described the deprivation, exhaustion, physical and mental torture, and actual murder suffered by the Black "slaves." Then he mentioned that they were not the only victims of this Neo-Medieval society that had been created in the South. He described how many of the poor whites in the South seemed so scared and underfed, so hopeless and listless. During the Civil War, General Ulysses S. Grant described how the poor whites drafted into the Confederate Army obviously were good workers who would have been respected in the North. Grant had grown up in a mechanically competent working family, so he knew what he was talking about here. And he wrote that almost everybody in his boyhood town did manual labor. He could tell that those poor white Confederate soldiers had obviously not been given any decent tools to work with. Eugene D. Genovese had something to say about this, too. His research team discovered that ALMOST ALL THE TOOLS IMPORTED TO THE SOUTH WERE ORDERED BY THE RICH PLANTERS, WHO KNEW NOTHING ABOUT MANUAL LABOR BECAUSE THEY NEVER DID IT. They therefore ordered ONLY THE CHEAPEST TOOLS LISTED. And that meant that the poor workers of the South almost never got their hands on the really good tools, because those tools were not anywhere near them. Genovese also described how the banks and municipal and business organizations of the Antebellum South were distorted to give huge advantages to the Plantation Aristocrats and keep the poor whites and the Black "slaves" in line.

These people who started this rhetoric about slavery actually benefitting the Black race were VICIOUS, NARCISSISTIC LIARS! And their lies should not be spread any further. Now listen! If you are descended from these rich Plantation owners or their slightly lesser "Slave-owner" buddies, of course none of this is your fault! And you should not be punished for what they did! BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE WRONG! Come on! You can do it! Just do some ACTUAL STUDY OF THE REAL EVENTS. Admit that they were WRONG when they pretended that the Black people were just subhmans who benefitted from slavery. And if you are descended from the poor whites, please notice that the Abolitionists ALSO NOTICED THAT YOUR ANCESTORS WERE MISTREATED AND SLANDERED BY THE SO-CALLED ARISTOCRATS OF THAT HORRIBLE SYSTEM. The Abolitionists wanted to abolish slavery for many reasons. Of course, they wanted to help your people too. They just HAD TO WORRY MORE ABOUT THE BLACK PEOPLE, BECAUSE MOST OF THEM WERE BEING TREATED SO MUCH WORSE!

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Solomon Northup, Frederick Douglass, and Eugene D. Genovese proved that THESE ARE FILTHY LIES! (Original Post) raging moderate Jul 2023 OP
+1 BeckyDem Jul 2023 #1
Great rant. Thank you. Biophilic Jul 2023 #2
Great post malaise Jul 2023 #3
If there isn't tremendous blowback to this then America has truly Boomerproud Jul 2023 #4
What a sordid history this country has Bayard Jul 2023 #5
And so many other countries, to be fair peppertree Jul 2023 #12
Being clothed and fed (meagerly) was no credit to slavers... brush Jul 2023 #6
Damn straight! That is my point. raging moderate Jul 2023 #7
i am remembering the photograph of a young Black man during the Civil War. raging moderate Jul 2023 #11
Curious, I searched for that photo and I think I found it Wednesdays Jul 2023 #15
Correction: This brave young man had walked for TEN NIGHTS! raging moderate Jul 2023 #22
I guess if Desatan became president he burn down the African American museum in DC kimbutgar Jul 2023 #8
I like this ruling. republianmushroom Jul 2023 #9
Many people don't know that in the South it was a crime to teach FREE black children to read dalton99a Jul 2023 #10
180,000 black men didn't join the union army because slavery was GREAT and filled with benefits! Johonny Jul 2023 #13
I know this white man who is from VA. Who collects civil 1WorldHope Jul 2023 #16
Did those Black men join the rebel army because they WANTED to or because they HAD to.... raging moderate Jul 2023 #18
There were no black confederate troops Johonny Jul 2023 #19
Thank you! This SHOULD SHUT UP those who say Black people fought to support the slave system! raging moderate Jul 2023 #20
And they were SO BRAVE! Confederates killed them whenever possible! raging moderate Jul 2023 #21
I taught eighth grade language arts in California. BadgerMom Jul 2023 #14
I have a really hard time dealing with people who say stupid stuff like that Warpy Jul 2023 #17

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
1. +1
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 11:55 AM
Jul 2023
Frederick Douglass tells how most of the "slave-owners" he knew tried to give their "slaves" enough to eat, but it was usually just uncooked porridge. Eugene D. Genovese, in his research report book "The Political Economy of Slavery," explained the painstaking research he and his team did, going through multiple records of "slave-owners" and banks and other institutions in the antebellum South. He and his team discovered that THE CALORIC OUTPUT OF THE WORK THAT WAS DOCUMENTED DID NOT COME CLOSE TO THE CALORIC INPUT OF THE FOOD THE "SLAVE-OWNERS" ADMITTED GIVING THEIR SLAVES. The research team discovered, upon further investigation, that the more energetic and innovative "slaves" had conducted a vast underground market system in the wee hours of the morning, which helped more of their fellow "slaves" survive.



K&R


Thank you for posting this!

Biophilic

(3,767 posts)
2. Great rant. Thank you.
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 12:11 PM
Jul 2023

I live in Florida. I’m still having trouble understanding how any, even slightly educated person, let alone someone with enough common sense to be breathing can believe this. It is just a FY to the rest of the state. “We are in power now and we are going to do whatever we want”. And many of us are just too stunned to believe this is real.

Boomerproud

(8,002 posts)
4. If there isn't tremendous blowback to this then America has truly
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 12:22 PM
Jul 2023

gone to the dark side. I don't know what else to say.

Bayard

(22,288 posts)
5. What a sordid history this country has
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 12:51 PM
Jul 2023

And it was ACCEPTABLE. Kidnapping black people from their homes to sell them into brutal slavery. Killing indigenous peoples, and stealing their land and children.

I can't imagine the daily horror for these people, with the knowledge that there was practically no chance of it ever getting better.

Excellent essay, raging moderate.

peppertree

(21,795 posts)
12. And so many other countries, to be fair
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 01:26 PM
Jul 2023

In most of Latin America, for example, feudal plantation towns, indentured servitude, and outright (albeit illegal) slavery was commonplace until the mid-20th century.

The practice persists, to some extent, even today - especially wage slavery.

And as you know, it's closely related to race. If you have (or appear to have) more than a certain % of African or Indigenous blood, most white people in these countries resent you doing anything else.

It goes without saying that that's the kind of labor market Republicans would like the U.S. to have - and marginalizing the horrors of slavery is just part of that strategy.

The same way they're quickly importing that RW Latin brand of politics (pocket judges and all).

brush

(54,000 posts)
6. Being clothed and fed (meagerly) was no credit to slavers...
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 12:54 PM
Jul 2023
the enslaved peoples' freedom was denied. That is the entire point and noting else really matters.

raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
11. i am remembering the photograph of a young Black man during the Civil War.
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 01:25 PM
Jul 2023

Last edited Sat Jul 22, 2023, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

This young man came to sign up for the Union army. He was photographed by a Union doctor who was outraged at his physical condition. This brave young man had escaped from a plantation and walked all night to reach the Union camp. He was covered with horrible scars from repeated torture with a whip. And his body is SO SKINNY that this alone breaks the heart. His skinny muscles, however, are obviously well-developed from extremely hard work, for extremely long hours, for many years. The brave look on his face is so inspiring, I feel we owe LOYALTY to this young man, and WE MUST SPEAK UP FOR HIM AND ALL HIS FELLOW SLAVES!

raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
22. Correction: This brave young man had walked for TEN NIGHTS!
Sun Jul 23, 2023, 02:51 PM
Jul 2023

Last edited Sun Jul 23, 2023, 09:19 PM - Edit history (1)

And he was pursued by horrible slave-catchers and their vicious dogs! Somehow he outwitted them and managed to escape! What a great young man!

kimbutgar

(21,318 posts)
8. I guess if Desatan became president he burn down the African American museum in DC
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 01:21 PM
Jul 2023

The last time I went to the Smithsonian before the new AA museum they had an exhibit of slaves and how they were treated. The picture of the man who’s back was covered with whip lashes made me cry. I also remember seeing pics of children who had been whipped.

dalton99a

(81,730 posts)
10. Many people don't know that in the South it was a crime to teach FREE black children to read
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 01:25 PM
Jul 2023

not just slaves

On January 10, 1854, a judge in Norfolk, Virginia, sentenced a white woman, Margaret Douglass, to one month in jail for teaching free Black children to read. The jury had recommended a $1 fine, but Circuit Court Judge Richard H. Baker said he imposed the jail term to set an example for others who could undermine “peace” in Virginia with such “manifestly mischievous” opinions or performing similar activities. He also chided Douglass, who was a home-based vest-maker, for representing herself instead of hiring an attorney.

Resettling in Philadelphia soon after completing her jail term, Douglass published a 65-page memoir, Personal Narrative of Mrs. Margaret Douglass, a Southern Woman Who Was Imprisoned for One Month in the Common Jail of Norfolk, Under the Laws of Virginia, for the Crime of Teaching Free Colored Children to Read. While Douglass insisted in her trial and book that she was not an abolitionist, she denounced both the Virginia law that prohibited teaching literacy to free African Americans and the judge as short-sighted, disgraceful and cruel, and the hypocrisy and cowardice of Norfolk elites who taught Black children in Sunday schools but would not publicly acknowledge their actions. Douglass’ book also provided insights into white fear of Black literacy and beliefs about white supremacy, some of which Douglass also held.

https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/woman-jailed-teaching-black-children-to-read/



Johonny

(21,014 posts)
13. 180,000 black men didn't join the union army because slavery was GREAT and filled with benefits!
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 01:32 PM
Jul 2023

They did it because it sucked and they knew it sucked.

1WorldHope

(708 posts)
16. I know this white man who is from VA. Who collects civil
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 02:47 PM
Jul 2023

war artifacts. He loves to show me old pics of blacks who joined the rebel army. His ancestors had a lot of land stolen from them by the north. Then they grew up hateful of the north. He posits that the war was not about slavery. He collects, guns, cannons, uniforms, coins, pictures. He had a will be couldn't read that he asked my husband to type for him. The will said he left this female slave and all of her children born or not yet born to a son.
How could people be so arrogant to think they can rule from the grave the future of the unborn. So the poor whites grew up in big cities with poor blacks and they continue to be mortal enemies to this day. This guy always tells me that it is just the history that interests him. He stops by sometimes and he says to me, "I know you think I am the devil". I tell him he is certainly the devil's advocate.
At a certain level of poverty the only thing that matters is survival. Ideals of freedom are so unreachable that everyday is a war for survival and hate becomes a tool to keep you fighting.

raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
18. Did those Black men join the rebel army because they WANTED to or because they HAD to....
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 03:53 PM
Jul 2023

in order to curry favor with their white captors, to get more food or fewer whippings - for themselves or for their loved ones?

Johonny

(21,014 posts)
19. There were no black confederate troops
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 03:59 PM
Jul 2023

It was illegal for them to become soldiers until the near end of the war. Many slaves and a few freemen were in Rebel camps for obvious labor reasons. But they weren’t there to fight.

Only in New Orleans were there armed Creol soldiers. But they were the land gentry in that area and they eventually switched sides after the union took the area.

raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
20. Thank you! This SHOULD SHUT UP those who say Black people fought to support the slave system!
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 04:05 PM
Jul 2023

Of course you must be right! If some Black guys were in uniform anywhere but New Orleans, it would have been as military servants. And probably those Creole soldiers had mixed feelings about it all but felt that they had to appease the white supremacists.

raging moderate

(4,323 posts)
21. And they were SO BRAVE! Confederates killed them whenever possible!
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 04:13 PM
Jul 2023

The pro-slavery people were ESPECIALLY ANGRY that Black men had volunteered for the Union Army in such droves!

BadgerMom

(2,775 posts)
14. I taught eighth grade language arts in California.
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 02:02 PM
Jul 2023

In our school in a high-achieving district the language arts teachers were paired with history teachers so we supported one another’s curricula. Eighth grade history in California schools (at least at that time) included the Civil War. In class as my history partner taught that time period, my classes read Across Five Aprils as well as a variety of primary source material.

I know I am privileged because I have my husband’s ample salary to fall back on so I want to remain open to different situations of fellow professionals, but I would have refused to teach what Florida is requiring. I hear echoes of average Germans during WWII remaining unopposed to fascist lies and behavior. Refusal to go along has to begin somewhere even if consequences are unpleasant. I hope any Florida teachers who can say no, do say no. Teach truth or why bother?

Warpy

(111,529 posts)
17. I have a really hard time dealing with people who say stupid stuff like that
Sat Jul 22, 2023, 03:10 PM
Jul 2023

I tend to treat tnem like the simple minded zeroes they really are and that doesn't do anyone any good at all. You can't educate these people, you can only water them from time to time and shove them off into a corner so you don't have to step over them.

Otherwise, I can lose my temper pretty quickly with that sort of thoughtless and destructive nonsense.

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