While we're waiting, The List.

[ancianita]

Last edited Thu Jul 13, 2023, 04:44 PM - Edit history (10)

AIDERS & ABETTERS, and ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT


1.
The United States v Trump & Nauta proceeds as Jack Smith moves to the facts & law re Jan 6 and beyond:

— Conspiracy for the purpose of impairing, obstructing or defeating the lawful functions of any department of Government by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest (18 U.S.C. § 371)
— Conspiracy to Make a False Statement (18 U.S.C. §§ 371, 1001)
— Conspiracy to Defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. § 371)
— "Incite," "Assist" or "Aid and Comfort" an Insurrection (18 U.S.C. § 2383)

—— An accessory-after-the-fact (18 U.S.C. § 3) is someone who assists
------1) someone who has committed a crime,
------2) after the person has committed the crime,
------3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and
------4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment.
An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, among other things, obstruction of justice.


These are the special counsel lead lawyers investigating congressional aiders and abetters:

Link to tweet

2.
THE LIST
(Those who could be charged with (18 U.S.C. § 371) or (18 U.S.C. §§ 371, 1001) or (18 U.S.C. § 2383) or
(18 U.S.C. § 3) or (18 U.S.C. §1519) or (3 U.S.C. § 5) or (18 U.S.C. §1512).

Rudolph Giuliani
Sidney Powell
Michael Flynn
Patrick Byrne
Bill Stepien

(Jacob & Short removed)
Stephen Miller
Justin Clark
Ben Williamson

John Eastman
Boris Epshteyn
Joe DeGenova
Sean Dollman
Mike Lindell

Patrick Byrne
Jenna Ellis
Bernard Kerik
Bruce Marks
Cleta Mitchell

William Russell
Matthew Morgan
Kurt Olsen
William Olson
Stefan Passantino— witness tampering

Victoria Toensing
Kash Patel
M. Evan Corcoran
Mark Meadows
Christina Bobb

Alina Habba
Ivanka Trump
Margo Martin
Dan Scavino
Nick Luna

John McEntee
Jeffrey Clark
Lin Wood
James Troupis
Michael Roman

Peter Navarro added
Gary Michael Brown
Ali Alexander added
Michael McDonald added
Jim DeGraffenreid added

Jack Wilenchik added
Jared Kushner added


Scott Perry (R-PA) Dec 22 2020 — Perry brought Clark to meet with Trump at the WH
Jim Jordan (R-OH)
Andy Biggs (R-AZ)
Mo Brooks (R-AL) — retired to run for US Senate
Ted Cruz (R-TX)

Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA)
Brian Babin (R-TX)
Matt Gaetz (R-FL)
Louie Gohmert (R-TX)— retired to run for AG of Texas
Paul Gosar (R-AL)

Andy Harris (R-MD)
Jody Hice (R-GA) — retired to run for secretary of state for GA
Tommy Tuberville (R-AL) added
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) added
Josh Hawley (R-MO) added

Mike Lee (R-UT) added



And...

Link to tweet

From 171 - 291 Republican Election Deniers after Jan 6 are now seated in the 118th Congress
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2022/election-deniers-running-for-office-elections-2022/?itid=lk_inline_manual_6




3.
Notes (no sources here) on the above list:

Per Cassidy Hutchinson testimony, congressional members at the WH meeting
— agreed to pressure Pence to send certifications back to fake elector states; which shows how deep the involvement of some lawmakers were in former President Trump's schemes to overturn the election even after the electoral college met to affirm President Biden's victory;
— Brooks sent an email setting up the meeting, with the subject line "White House meeting Dec. 21 regarding Jan. 6

Reps. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio),
Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.),
Mo Brooks (R-Mo.),
Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.),
Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.),

Louie Gohmert (R-Texas),
Jody Hice (R-Ga.),
Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.),
Debbie Lesko (R-Ariz.) and
Scott Perry (R-Pa.),

Hutchinson said that a "handful" of others were also present or dialed in as well.



— WH aides testified to Jan 6 committee that the following congress people individually sought pardons

Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.)
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.)
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.)

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas)
Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.)
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.)

   
— Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) testified that Brooks emailed the White House requesting "general (all purpose) pardons" for himself and these congress people:

Rep. Brian Babin (R-Texas)
Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) — also per Hutchinson
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.)
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) — also per Hutchinson
Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.)

Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.)
Rep. Jody Hice (R-Ga.)
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio)
Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.)
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.)





Finally:
Only Jack Smith has the evidence on whether Mark Meadows is the key to both the Trump Jan 6 indictment and any beyond. If Meadows shows massive cooperation, we might see charges (if not indictments) against many of the above congress critters. The fake electors scheme will reveal more.
https://www.azmirror.com/2022/02/01/trumps-fake-electors-heres-the-full-list/.


As usual, we wait.






(Additions and corrections welcome)

[2naSalit]

1. Thanks for putting that together...

In a post.

I have claimed, since early 2019, that there would end up being a probable third of Congress and most of those in the WH as well as other lower status lowlifes throughout federal and state government positions who could be charged in the whole mess. Seriously, I have expected a massive case that would rival the biggest mob bust. They intended a coup, planned for it and executed but failed.

So I will not rest easy until they are incarcerated. They are directly threatening my existence and I want them dealt with, legally, ASAP. I get the sense that what Jack Smith will bring down is what should have been done years ago.

[ancianita]

2. Thanks back, 2na.

It didn't exist in the Jan 6 report, but kept getting scattered coverage, so I figured we needed another summary of the anti-democratic reps who occupy DC.

I'm with you all the way. I'm confident that if anyone can bring a massive case like this, Jack Smith will make sure it becomes more than a "wish" list.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. "years ago" -- If tRump had faced the law years before running we'd be in a much better place. . .nt

[2naSalit]

9. No doubt about that!

Alas, here we are. I have been hoping, waiting, and now... if anything happens, I will rejoice. Otherwise, I know what should be happening at this point, I check in to see if it has every day.

Feels like we are the ones doing time here.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

14. Justice grinds slowly the more mass she has to grind. This is all lightening speed given the

mountain of evidence needed to be accumulated…

1000s of folks at the Capitol coup attempt needed court of law level evidence gathering and convincing a judge…, 100s more coup plotters, much more clever than the useful idiots, need exponentially larger mountain of evidence. That’s the rules of law.

The proof beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of 12 jurors is always a tall tall mountain to climb, as it must be always.

[malaise]

92. THIS

Justice is coming

[Alexander Of Assyria]

99. Feel it in the bones! The legal march is inexorable. The daily pessimism is ill informed.

Check out how Canada is handling social media lies and hate propaganda!

They passed a law! Who knew could do that!!??

[DENVERPOPS]

97. Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you

excellent and extremely comprehensive posting........

It took a lot of time, research and effort to gather all this information......Again, much Thx is due from ALL of us for your work.

I wish Jack Smith had been able to start two or three years ago..........

This puts on blatant display, of how insanely desperate the Republicans are presently, and will continue to be, to take the 2024 election, by hook or crook, and at any and all costs.....The Republican party will be, without a doubt, "going for broke" this time around, like NEVER before.

This group of "so-called" Republicans are out to Obliterate Our Constitution, Obliterate our beloved Democracy, and Obliterate the Rule of Law.......AND, install, with out a single doubt, a CORPORATE FASCIST TYRANNY.....ruled by the Corporations and Top 1%, and reduce the other 99% of citizens to mere Serfs and Peasants...........

They have been working towards this, ever since HWBush, used TREASON, to install that dimwit pawn, Ronald Reagan, as President.....

I cannot even begin to fathom the thought, or believe, that all these Republican Politicians have any children and grand children. They are ONLY concerned and obsessed with themselves, ahead of all others, including the futures of their very own children and grand children.

What a group of fucking deplorable, despicable, totally self centered, and truly psycopathic assholes...........

Katie Bar The Door...............

[Mr. Ected]

3. What about Peter Navarro?

Just curious why he may not be included on this list.

[ancianita]

20. He's been indicted on a contempt of Congress charge and is up for trial in September 25.

[Mr. Ected]

38. But wasn't he also involved with plotting the coup?

Just surprised he didn't make "The List".

[ancianita]

41. I considered him and looked him up. I think you're right, though, so I'll add him. No reason

Jack Smith can't add to his woes, right? The thing is, he was never called before either the first Garland grand jury or Jack Smith's grand juries. I wonder. But I'll go ahead and add him anyway, since there are unnamed appearances before Smith's grand juries.

[Mr. Ected]

49. I commend your tenacity!

Let's hope that Jack Smith ensnares each and every individual that had a hand in the attempted overthrow of our government.

[3Hotdogs]

5. Two names that would tickle my scrotum to read about indictment ---

Stephen Miller and Her Royal Highness, Princess Sparkle Pony.

[MyOwnPeace]

94. Did I miss them?

What about the ‘Dumb-dumb’ twins, Who’day and Who’dem?
Surely they are SO deep in the swamp the they’ve GOT to be nailed for SOMETHING!!!!!

[True Dough]

6. And every one of them should be held to account

If there's no day of reckoning, then we can expect more of this deplorable and underhanded behavior.

[2naSalit]

10. Exactly.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. Democrats need to hold the White House

for any of this to happen going forward. Holding at least one House of Congress would be just as important.

Tell us how we do that.

[ancianita]

22. AND both houses of Congress.

We do that with the 7 MILLION more who turned out for Biden in 2020. They're still out there in 2024. Add to that the fact that at least 16% of rethugs have polled as unwilling to vote for Trump, and we've got an offset for any gerrymanders.

Me, I'm looking for more state trifectas this time, as well.

[jaxexpat]

30. Infinitely true! How do we do that? We see high-profile prosecutions BEFORE election day, 2024.

Mountains of investigation should not daunt or delay the speedy trial needed to ensure the existence of Democracy in the US. Long lists of complexities should be nothing new to the DOJ unless they're compromised.

We get off this "it wouldn't be good to imprison an ex-president" baloney. We reject propaganda. It's not only untrue, but also a deliberate effort to delude the public. Want to overcome voter apathy? Put the criminal candidate and his minions in prison and own the consequences down to the wives and children crying as daddy's hauled away. Are we immune to the fact there were military personnel involved in a coup attempt? That's so ridiculously close to totalitarianism that it actually got to third base on the first date.

If we do not hold the Whitehouse and at least one House of Congress the doom sayers become bankable prophets.

[ancianita]

80. Exactly! Every single word you say.

[bottomofthehill]

8. I am with you on most of what you said.

There is one departure, and it is a large group. I don’t think all members of congress will or should get a pass but Gaetz and the 147 Republican House members and senators who voted against certifying Arizona's and Pennsylvania's electors were clearly doing so in their capacity as members of House and Senate and thus are protected by the speech and debate clause of rhe constitution. It is clearly within their legislative right to vote against. Members vote for or against things for all sorts of stupid reasons.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

15. Yes, true. But if had knowledge beforehand of the falseness of the conspiracy...aiding and abetting...

whole the criminal coup attempt couldn’t happen without their aid.

I was only following orders…is a similar defence.

This would be Jacks legal theory…it’s sound.

And don’t forget the actual fake electors filed massively fraudulent on their face certificates…which the Congress people preferred over the real ones…lots of evidence and logic leading to criminal conviction.

[ancianita]

23. The House members you refer to are not on The List, rightly using their capacity to vote against

the certifications of certain states.

The only congress people on the list are those aiders and abettors outside the speech and debate capacity.

If they promoted the big lie in the 2022 midterms, they qualify as accessories after the fact, and so the link.

[bottomofthehill]

31. Your post literally says

b) Gaetz and the 147 Republican House members and senators who voted against certifying Arizona's and Pennsylvania's electors

I only take you at what you said.

[bottomofthehill]

32. By the way, the Constitution says

Article I, Section 6, Clause 1:

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

The Supreme Court has described the Speech or Debate Clause as a provision that cannot be interpreted literally,1 but instead must be construed broadly in order to effectuate the Clause’s vital role in the constitutional separation of powers.2 Deceptively simple3 phrases—such as shall not be questioned, Speech or Debate, and even Senators and Representatives—have therefore been accorded meanings that extend well beyond their literal constructions.4 Arguably, this purpose-driven interpretive approach has given rise to some ambiguity in the precise scope of the protections afforded by the Clause. Despite uncertainty at the margins, it is well established that the Clause serves to secure the independence of the federal legislature by providing Members of Congress and their aides with immunity from criminal prosecutions or civil suits that stem from acts taken within the legislative sphere.5 As succinctly described by the Court, the Clause’s immunity from liability applies even though their conduct, if performed in other than legislative contexts, would in itself be unconstitutional or otherwise contrary to criminal or civil statutes.6 This general immunity principle forms the core of the protections afforded by the Clause.

Once it is determined that the Clause applies to a given action, the resulting protections from liability are absolute,7 and the action may not be made the basis for a civil or criminal judgment against a Member.8 In such a situation, the Clause acts as a jurisdictional bar to the legal claim.9 But this immunity is also complemented by two component privileges (an evidentiary privilege and a testimonial privilege) that emanate from the Clause and can be asserted to prevent certain compelled disclosures. Even if absolute immunity is inappropriate, the evidentiary component of the Clause prohibits the introduction of evidence of legislative acts for use against a Member,10 while the testimonial privilege protects Members from compelled testimony on protected acts.11 The Supreme Court has not explicitly framed the protections of the Clause by reference to these two independent component privileges, but has instead implicitly recognized their existence.12 As a result, these privileges are neither clearly established nor described, and may further contribute to the unsettled aspects of the Clause

[ancianita]

34. I see. Okay, I'll take down the description, which was written for another post. Sorry.

[tavernier]

11. It's a beautiful list.

The best list ever!

And in that spirit, I believe it should be transcribed onto marble and placed in front of the Capitol Building in DC.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

12. The List made my day!

Personally had little doubt the Chief Inspector had an enemies of democracy list, Pence at the top, a pyramid scheme underneath.

ALL who aided and abetted…as legally defined…are caught in this web…the conspiracy to steal democracy required much aid and abetting. Which is why aiding and abetting isn’t a minor offence, or an adjunct offence, it is THE offence in a conspiracy based pyramid crime.

The robbery get away drivers wife aided and abetted the robbery by providing the detailed plan and a safe house for later…10 years prison for her, twice that for the robbers.

[ancianita]

24. Great!!

Is this wife you speak of a hypothetical wife?

[Alexander Of Assyria]

25. In my analogy it's more of a harem...the usual suspects in Congress and the Kraken lawyers

provided the safe house, and the plan how to escape the scene of the crime!

Frankly the husbands are all idiots in comparison.

[ancianita]

27. lol

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

28. No, thank you!...for supplying the thought! 😂

Made myself laugh…

[jaxexpat]

35. Good point. Why wasn't Pence on the lists in the OP?

In what world is he not guilty of, at least, dereliction of duty (is that a thing?). Is it because it would hurt the widdle feewings of people who can't understand "government corruption = bad = vewy bad"?

Question:
Who on his cabinet and staff was not compromised and cooperative in efforts to undermine the good purpose of government?

Answer:
Those who resigned.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

36. Didn't aid. Didn't abet. Usually an abettor doesn't have his hanging effigy outside place of crime!

[ancianita]

43. I'm pretty sure that he knew he'd not have those charges brought if he fully cooperated from jump.

Also pretty sure that he didn't spread the big lie after Jan 6, so the accessory after the fact charges won't apply, either.

[jaxexpat]

48. What effigy? All I saw was an orange piece of rope on a poorly built scaffold.

But that's not the important thing. The crimes started before Trump was sworn in, the grifting which is fraud and theft all bundled together, which is a crime, to name only one. Did Pence not abet Trump's attempt of presidency? Has he not hedged on his testimony re: Trump?

[ancianita]

51. You are right that technically Pence aided and abetted by saying and doing nothing before Jan 6.

He's not on the list, however, like some of the WH lawyers are not, because he's likely gotten a break by fully cooperating with Special Counsel's grand jury, and previously was just exercising his rights to, just once, challenge the subpoena.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

100. Silence in the face of a possible conspiracy is not a crime. There is no Good Samaritan law.

Pence, to my mind, was very very careful not to cross the line from listening and knowing a possible conspiracy was actually being executed…pun intended…to active involvement.

The List…all active actors to some degree or another…Pence fleeing for his life, was not.

That’s the Jack Smith team analysis I wager my credibility.

[Irish_Dem]

13. My heart be still. The DOJ is actually going to investigate the corrupt members of congress?

I will believe it when I see it.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

17. Some see it and still don't believe it...like a giant white spy balloon...I see it easily but I don't

believe it’s a weather balloon!

[Kid Berwyn]

16. Justice demands it.

Because it’s how to keep the traitors from trying again.

[jmbar2]

18. Great research, boiled down for fast review

Didn't realize that the "supporting cast" was so large. It would be hard to choose who deserves prosecution more - the organizers and planners, versus the most repugnant.

[erronis]

19. A master list of traitors.

Unfortunately, I can almost see someone saying "In the interest of national unity, ...."

[Alexander Of Assyria]

37. In the interests of national unity, and democracy, the R Party should be banned.

[ancianita]

44. Agree. It's not a party. It's a criminal syndicate.

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. Great list, just a few quibbles

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to think that everyone on the list has exposure for 18 USC 2383, in particular, Marc Short and Greg Jacob, from Pence’s staff, who have been cooperating with both DOJ and the J6 committee (once privilege questions were resolved), and, AFAIK, did not invoke the fifth. If they are on the hook for 2383, then so is Pence.

In fact, I think it’s unlikely that most, if any people on your list would be charged with 2383, and instead would be charged with fraud or obstruction of an official proceeding, or, in a few cases, seditious conspiracy, since none of the “foot soldiers” have been charged with insurrection.

At the end of your post you mention “charges, if not indictments” ; they are the same thing - if you are indicted, you are charged with a crime. Were you trying to say something else?

Thanks for reminding me of the additions to Smith’s team to investigate congress members, had forgotten about them.

[ancianita]

26. Thanks. I hear you.

Not being a lawyer, I'm erring on the side of possible evidence. And here's the thing about Short and Jacob. If they were so cooperative with the DOJ, why did they have to be called back to the Smith criminal grand juries more than anyone else?

Re indictments and charges:
I've read that indictments and charges can both made with grand juries.
I've read that charges can be made by prosecutors with or without a grand jury, not indictments.
That's why I made the distinction, because some Cornell Law digital lawyer pointed out to me that they're distinct.

I don't presume to know the law, so could easily be wrong on that.

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. All federal felony charges must go through a grand jury

I think Short and Jacobs were called back because the first time, they couldn’t speak freely due to privilege issues. I don’t know if they were called back additional times for the purpose of “amending” or “correcting” their testimony, or if Smith simply had more questions to ask.

[ancianita]

33. I see. Assuming you're a lawyer, so thank you.

The first time for privilege issues? With Pence?
He wasn't in office when they were called to Garland's grand jury the first time.

Then they were called back by Jack Smith twice. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218003825

Sure, they could be entirely innocent, along with Pence. But Pence's standing by, saying and doing nothing -- and often looking for a legal way to actually help Trump -- was aiding and abetting, for which neither he nor his lawyers can claim ignorance.

I'm keeping them up and let Jack sort 'em out.

[Fiendish Thingy]

54. Not a lawyer, but I follow a lot of them

The grand jury requirement for felonies is pretty widely known.

It’s also mentioned in the Fifth Amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States

Even though Pence and Trump were out of office, there were claims of Executive Privilege (for Short and Jacob), and attorney/client privilege (for Jacob) asserted that had to be sorted out by the courts (better now than in the midst of a trial, right?)

Pence, Short and Jacob all asserted privilege, but once those issues were resolved in a lower court, they did not appeal, and complied with subpoenas.

Again, I think it’s highly unlikely any of them gets indicted for anything- they are all critical witnesses, not accomplices. Short’s testimony alone will likely put Clark and Eastman in prison.

[ancianita]

58. Fine. So,

though you're no lawyer, you make fair points. Still. Even if they appeared before Garland's first grand jury hearing in 2022, they still had to show up at least two more times for Smith's grand jury (ies), and so if they were cooperating witnesses, why their boss, Pence, resisted, was to make a douchebag political point.
I'll err on the side of their doing what Pence did, and take them off The List.

[Mr.Bill]

65. Not a lawyer here,

but I have sat on Grand Juries. It's really not unusual to call a witness back several times, Mainly because other witness's testimony has brought to light some things you want to ask them about. Another reason is they could be corroborating something another witness said after you first interviewed them.

[ancianita]

75. Cool.

Or they could be tampering with each other's testimony. Dunno. Anyway, I still removed them from The List based on that possibility.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

39. Call back would be routine if say other evidence conflicted with prior question answers, as

just one reason for call back interrogations.

As the investigation unfolds new pieces of evidence will require examination of the testimony of many prior interrogated witnesses…all under Oath!!

[ancianita]

45. Understood. OR Special Counsel found out they hadn't told the whole truth & nothing but. Just sayin'

that the reasons could go either way.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

63. Yes. Or could be both, one springing from the other. For sure Jack had reasons.

[TeamProg]

40. K&R!! Love it!

[FakeNoose]

42. I'm glad to see that a new team is being assembled to go after the Congressional Repukes

They're part of the conspiracy too. They helped Chump and Meadows make it happen. They need to answer for it.

This is all going to take years to settle out and it's beyond the scope of any one man, even when it's a Superman like Jack Smith. These efforts require teams of smart, efficient prosecutors who will devote much time to getting those traitors behind bars.

[ancianita]

47. Me, too. But actually, that team has been set up all along. I first read about them back in February

[usonian]

46. The list is life --- IN PRISON

to those who conspired to bring down Democracy by illegal means.

Heck, they can have their own "freedom caucus" behind bars, and they can plan, aid and abet break-ins of the slammer.

[Botany]

50. Get 'em

JACK SMITH has added two longtime associates of the Justice Department to his team; Raymond Hulser, former chief of the DOJ’s public integrity section & David Harbach.
Each specialize in public corruption and together they will lead the DOJ investigation of congressional members.

Funny so many of them are members of the Free Dumb Caucus except they are against
the freedoms of voting and a fair election.

Link to tweet

[Duppers]

52. Excellent compilation.

K&R

[Emile]

53. Gym Jordan is facing jail time and is running out of time! He was

a big part of the fake electors plot.

[ancianita]

55. Yep. He was an aider and abetter. Now that he's weaponized a subcommittee, he might

even be seen as abusing his power in order to obstruct, or even fabricate "reasonable doubt" testimony, re the Special Counsel's Jan 6 work.

[housecat]

56. Mind blowing. Thank you for posting this!

[ancianita]

82. Thank you back, housecat.

[Wild blueberry]

57. Thank you for this list

Lots of work, appreciate it!
And may they all face justice.

[ancianita]

60. Thanks for your thoughts!

And if they don't face justice, may they never be able to work in DC again.

[republianmushroom]

59. About time, there has been a lot of foot dragging.

[cilla4progress]

61. Incredible work, ancianita -

thank you!

[ancianita]

79. Thanks, cilla.

[BumRushDaShow]

62. Missing are Tommy Tuberville (R-AL), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Mike Lee (R-UT) & Josh Hawley (R-MO)

Donald Trump call to ‘strongest’ supporter Tommy Tuberville makes appearance at Jan. 6 committee hearing

Updated: Jul. 21, 2022, 9:08 p.m.|Published: Jul. 21, 2022, 8:37 p.m.

By Howard Koplowitz | [email protected]



Former President Donald Trump’s phone conversation with Sen. Tommy Tuberville was referenced during Thursday night’s Jan. 6 committee hearing as the panel gave a minute-by-minute accounting of Trump’s actions as the Capitol was breached.

Link to tweet

The hearing also shed light on how dire the security detail for then-Vice President Mike Pence, who was presiding over the certification of the Electoral Count that afternoon in the Senate chamber, assessed the situation, with the detail asking their colleagues to say goodbye to their families on their behalf.

The committee noted that Pence was escorted out of the chamber and was just feet away from the armed rioters before he needed to be whisked away to another safe location. As Pence was evacuated from the chamber, Trump placed a call to Tuberville, “one of his strongest supporters in the Senate,” said Rep. Elaine Luria, D-Va., who sits on the Jan. 6 committee.

“As Sen. Tuberville recalled, he had to end the call so he could evacuate the Senate chamber himself,” Luria said before playing footage of a television interview the senator gave recounting the conversation. Trump “didn’t call my phone, he called somebody else, and they handed it to me and I basically told him, I said, ‘”Mr. President, we’re not doing much work right now because they just took our vice president out and a matter of fact, I’m going to hang up on you, I got to leave,’” Tuberville said. Trump had actually called Sen. Mike Lee, who handed the phone to Tuberville.

TWEET TEXT

Aaron Rupar
·
Jul 21, 2022
@atrupar
·
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Replying to @atrupar
"It's a terrible tweet" -- Cipollone on Trump's tweet attacking Pence
Aaron Rupar
@atrupar
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"The attack escalated quickly right after the tweet"

Trump then resuming calling senators like Tommy Tuberville and Josh Hawley and asking them to delay certification
9:11 PM · Jul 21, 2022

Of course what Graham did, Fani Willis has a bullseye on.

[ecstatic]

64. And loudermilk! He gave that unauthorized group tour of the Capitol

He is the biggest criminal left off, but I really need Lindsey Graham to face Justice because it's personal. He had the audacity to call my state to try to get my vote tossed.

And it raises some serious questions about what the fuck he did in his own state. Did they switch around the votes to reelect him? Is that how it usually works?

Lock him up NOW!

Edited: ok I see loudermilk on the picture so hopefully that means he is being investigated as well.

[BumRushDaShow]

67. Agree about Loudermilk too.

Of course Freedumb Caucus chair Scott Perry is from my state and should have lost re-election (still too red there but the (D) did okay given the circumstances).

[stage left]

70. +1

I'm convinced that that the AG here in South Carolina found the votes to give Lindsey the win that the little jerk sought for Trump in Georgia.

[ancianita]

71. Thanks, BRDS. At first look, I have to think about these four.

Graham might be in Fani Willis' sights for breaking state law. And I believe he's been court ordered to be deposed there.

Since news has focused on Graham being in her arena, not Smith's, how Graham stands exposed for the federal laws listed above is hard to tell. Because if he were, nothing's come out about it. You'd have to link some evidence of his violating those laws; I haven't found anything yet. I'll look into him around your claim, but hope you can help me out a little on this, too.

As for Tuberville, Lee and Hawley, if they were only trying to delay certification, and if there's no proof that they'd conspired to vote for the fake electors, I don't think there are sufficient grounds to claim they aided and abetted. That Trump called and asked doesn't prove they agreed with him, at that point, or any previous time, and my list comes from the DOJ's work, not the Jan 6 committee's hearings. And no congress people were in the final Jan 6 Report. So, in the DOJ framework, if they've made big lie claims after Jan 6, I haven't come across them.

My knowledge of The List came from my summaries work on the Garland-Smith investigations on Jan 6 and the documents, and not so much on who was involved in the fake electors scheme. News about Smith contacting state officials has surfaced, but no congressional names have come out of the DOJ on that scheme. Not yet. If/when they do, I'm happy to add them.

Not to mention that Jack Smith might have way more names than these, based on CCTV tapes, texts, phone transcripts and other evidence. Given that I can only work with what's reported so far, I'm holding off on adding them. We're swimming in a turbulence of scattered reports that need context, timelines, and authoritative sources; absent those -- unless you have some -- I can't see putting them in The List yet.

[BumRushDaShow]

89. Sorry for delay - we have "weather" going on here and well... hobby

"Since news has focused on Graham being in her arena, not Smith's"

There's nothing that precludes both state and federal charges.

News about Smith contacting state officials has surfaced, but no congressional names have come out of the DOJ on that scheme

Graham contacted AZ (Doug Ducey) too. They need to get stuff under oath.

As for Tuberville, Lee and Hawley, if they were only trying to delay certification, and if there's no proof that they'd conspired to vote for the fake electors, I don't think there are sufficient grounds to claim they aided and abetted.

Tuberville had literally just been elected and sworn in a few days before January 6 and he already had 45 trying to get a hold of him. 45 eventually (or accidentally) called Mike Lee in order to talk to Tuberville, a brand new Senator. What was going on there? Linked article suggests that Tuberville was told to "protect" himself.

"Delay" is "interference" with Electors process. There was a procedure already in place that allowed for "objections", which required both a Senator and House member to sign off on and that would lead to a debate in each of the chambers (with time divided equally between for and against), and then a vote. There were ultimately 2 "objections" proffered (against AZ and PA) on January 6, one of which was in the middle of being debated when the hoodlums attacked the Capitol. Hawley and Cruz spearheaded these objections.

However before they even got to that point in the Electoral process, they were already supporting all those frivolous lawsuits filed in states like here in PA that were attempting to throw out or ballots. Need to know how much they were involved in that.

Link to tweet

Josh Hawley
@HawleyMO
·
Follow
This case raises major questions about the legality of Pennsylvania’s mail-in balloting changes. The Supreme Court should hear the case on an emergency basis
usatoday.com
Lawsuit by Trump allies challenging Pennsylvania election results reaches Supreme Court
Conservative U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa., and others allege that state officials had no right under the state constitution to expand mail-in voting.
8:38 PM · Dec 1, 2020

For example, PA - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/12/01/donald-trumps-allies-ask-supreme-court-block-pa-election-result/3785564001/

Plus Michigan - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/01/trump-michigan-election-results/6474733002/

This was in addition to the idiotic suits from the state of TX filed by now-impeached Ken Paxton.

Not to mention that Jack Smith might have way more names than these, based on CCTV tapes, texts, phone transcripts and other evidence.

There had been news articles that mentioned that Smith had "at least" 84 names on a witness list that he wanted the court to order that defendant 45 have no contact with (IIRC), so that is a ballpark number to start with.

[ancianita]

90. Not a problem!

I see what you mean about 'delay' being interference. And that Graham and the other three were involved in promoting the fake elector scheme. So based on the implications you make, I'll go with adding them to The List, though I still don't see why they'd be connected to the 84 names on the witness list for the Florida documents case.

Anyway, how this all washes out depends on evidence we haven't seen yet, and these guys' actions took planning in the context of 34 other possible schemers with Meadows validation. So be it.

Thanks for all your effort. Speaking of weather, it's been like India here for the last five days; on a related note, it feels like all that we try to do is never enough.

We're in a fight that needs to be over asap so we can get on with the good fight of a whole-of-nation effort on climate.
People need Joe, world climate scientists, engineers and scientists to tell them how to help our descendants so they'll have a future they won't curse us for.
I don't want this to be the coldest summer of their lives.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. For the documents case

Graham's nosing into that is suspect. Literally a couple weeks after Mar-a-largo was searched and documents seized, he was right out there with the threats and a big part of circling the wagons -

There will be ‘riots in the street’ if Trump is prosecuted, Graham says


By Kim Bellware
Updated August 29, 2022 at 3:58 p.m. EDT|Published August 29, 2022 at 1:24 p.m. EDT


Sen. Lindsey O. Graham said Sunday that there would be “riots in the street” if former president Donald Trump is prosecuted for taking classified government documents to his private Mar-a-Lago residence after leaving the White House. Graham (R-S.C.) twice made a “riots in the street” remark during an appearance on Fox News’s “Sunday Night in America” as he launched into a broader commentary against what he perceived to be a two-tiered justice system tilted against the former president.

“There is a double standard when it comes to Trump,” Graham said, contrasting the FBI’s search of Mar-a-Lago to the agency’s probe of his political rivals, including Hillary Clinton for her use of a private email server while she was secretary of state, and President Biden’s son Hunter. (Hunter Biden is under investigation for tax liabilities, though Graham and other Republicans regularly say the FBI should probe his overseas business dealings.)

“And I’ll say this: If there is a prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling classified information after the Clinton debacle … there will be riots in the street,” Graham said.

On Monday, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre criticized such “dangerous” comments about violence from “extreme Republicans,” though she did not mention Graham by name. Graham’s comments drew rebukes from critics who called Graham’s remarks “irresponsible” and “shameful.”

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/29/lindsey-graham-riots/

He was later putting out false info when the actual charges were announced, claiming they were for "espionage" when they were for some statutes under the Espionage Act. And this is from a guy who was a military lawyer (JAG).

And it has been a steam bath here once the rains hit my area. My neighborhood kept missing the showers that were happening all around here on and off over the past almost 2 weeks but I finally got one today and that let loose the sauna.

[ancianita]

117. I get it. Graham misreads and misleads the public the way his boss does.

Lindsey is a hot mess that, at scale, might or might not be worth the Special Counsel's effort.

Yep. Steam baths all over the southeast, too. Stay cool, my friend.

[BumRushDaShow]

118. "Hot mess" is a perfect description

He is normally a weathervane and the only one who could "tame" him was John McCain. But now he is just wandering in the wilderness.

[Mr.Bill]

66. Where does Jared Kushner fit into this puzzle?

[ancianita]

72. I really don't know. He wasn't in DC on Jan 6, and only arrived after it was all over.

[Mr.Bill]

77. Yeah, I see what you are saying.

It's just so hard to believe he was not involved somehow. Really, it's kind of suspicious to me that he left town. It's almost like he was creating an alibi. Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Could he have been involved in funding it? I guess he's already involved in so much illegal activity it doesn't really matter anyway.

[ancianita]

78. Good. From what I can see, he's in a class of grift all of his own making.

Nothing about him shows up on the DOJ horizon. But no, you're not overthinking anything. He was part of Trump's grift culture in the WH, whether he was involved in the runup to Jan 6 or not. And when Trump lost, Jared and Ivanka put distance between themselves and Trump; they had kids to consider and wouldn't follow him down his lawless path.

[Mr.Bill]

83. I could see him pulled into the

documents investigation. If secrets were being sold to foreign elements, I could see him brokering the deals. The Saudis didn't give him two billion dollars because he's a brilliant investor. Hell, that deal going public could just be a decoy for where the real money came in.

[ancianita]

85. That very well could

come up. Because as you and I know, Smith's got an iceberg of evidence we've not yet seen.
No matter what a jury decides in Florida, or when, Bedminster and DC will likely be where Smith continues his dragnet of charges.

[yonder]

68. What an effort and thanks for putting this all together. Bookmarked

We'll all be looking for some results pretty darn soon.

[ancianita]

73. Thanks back.

Though I wouldn't look for results soon. Not until we see a Jan 6 indictment in DC. That might be in December. If aiders and accessories get charged, the due process will take that whole lot into the primary season, lord have mercy.

[Cha]

69. Great News.. TY! Never heard of that

Sen Lumms WY until now.. bet she's a gaslit idiot and what was she doing texting Meadows?

[ancianita]

74. There's a mountain of what's left to know, Cha!

Looks like we'll have to wait to find out about all those texts, right?

[Cha]

76. Yeah, it was Rhetorical.. lol And

Mahalo for all you're doing For our Democracy, ancianita!

[ancianita]

81. Of course it was!

Thanks, Cha! Let's spread this on other platforms over the next year. Rhetorically speaking it will move the needle!

[soldierant]

84. I see the names of

a few covens of House members, but I didn't see any names of Senators, I would have expected to see RoJo and Hawlin'-A$$ Hawley, and I'm sure I'm missing some.

[Cha]

86. I saw Sen Looms WY.. one of the

two R women.. first I heard of her.

[ancianita]

87. Well,

if you have links that show evidence of their abetting or being an accessory, you're welcome to link them. Doesn't mean Smith doesn't have the evidence, but I don't have links to sources about it.

[orleans]

88. great thread! thank you. kicking & bookmarking. recommended. nt

[malaise]

91. A fabulous OP

Rec😀

[ancianita]

101. Thank you, mal.

I've missed seeing you on DU.

[calimary]

95. This one's a KEEPER FOR SURE!!!

Gonna make a note.

Thanks a bajillion, ancianita! You put a lot of work and thought and research into this. It’s hugely appreciated!!!

[GenThePerservering]

96. Thank you for this!

hope you dont mind if I pass it along to a couple of friends following this - it's a great summary of a complex situation.

[ancianita]

98. Welcome. And please DO pass this along.

[BumRushDaShow]

102. Here is an article that just got published today by NBC News

Has some witness names (if there are any that you don't have on your list) - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/dozens-witnesses-testified-jan-6-focused-grand-jury-probes-trump-rcna91171

[malaise]

103. Thanks

[BumRushDaShow]

104. You're welcome malaise!

Good to see an update on where things stand with the grand juries.

[ancianita]

107. Sorry I screwed up who you were posting to.

[malaise]

109. LOL

No problem😀

[ancianita]

105. Much appreciated! I'm reading the embedded links to see how far Repubican crime tentacles go.

Most of the fake elector scheme names I'm reading are at state levels that the DOJ's dealing with, and I'm only listing the DC Republicans who aided and abetted them within the special counsel framework. They prove that the rethugs are a crime syndicate, and cult voters are the face of it.

Do we really know if Smith will handle charges against these fake electors?
I've gotten only news that it will be the DOJ.

It looks as if this fake elector list doesn't connect with any Republican not already on The List, including the 34 who texted with Meadows.

I know folks in those seven states, and I'm definitely spreading that linked list around.

[BumRushDaShow]

106. Well remember that Jack Smith is "DOJ"

He was given a mandate to handle J6-related stuff (and eventually picked up the classified documents case where it left off before he was appointed), and the "fake electors" was under that purview.

Note that within this arrangement, they are not operating in a "silo". I.e., Smith is the "master coordinator" who would work with any of the U.S. Attorneys in the states/jurisdictions that may have had the alleged "fake electors".

In other words, Smith is not the guy standing up in the courtroom in these grand juries, the U.S. Attorney (in this case, basically the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia) is handling that with his Assistant U.S. Attorneys doing the arguments.

In some cases, like here in PA, they might only have a limited ability to deal with those Electors because of some wobbly/stipulation language that they included in their submission memo that indicated that the Electors would only be valid if some court found that the election results were invalid and the state legislature would appoint its own slate. Most of the other states (other than NM) didn't add that stipulation language, so they are under the microscope. However the people involved here were questioned for informational purposes.

Here in PA, Scott Perry (R-PA) IS a Congressman and was involved in the "fake electors" scheme, among other things, and his phone was seized last year. All his stuff that is now in FBI hands was still being litigated - at least through this past March. He is currently Chair of the teabagger caucus in the U.S. House.

Recent story buried on a holiday -

US investigators zone in on Trump election-plot lawyer John Eastman

Experts say Eastman, faces possible disbarment in California, under increasing scrutiny in federal and state inquiries


Peter Stone in Washington
Tue 4 Jul 2023 06.00 EDT
Last modified on Tue 4 Jul 2023 06.27 EDT

John Eastman, who was in the vanguard of lawyers plotting schemes involving “fake electors” and other ploys to help Donald Trump thwart Joe Biden’s win in 2020, is now under close scrutiny in federal and state investigations of Trump’s drives to stay in power, and faces possible disbarment in California, say former prosecutors. The fake electors scheme was a central part of Trump’s strategy to reverse his defeat. It was called that because Republican electors in seven key battleground states signed certificates falsely declaring themselves “duly elected and qualified” to affirm Donald Trump won the 2020 election.

(snip)

Smith’s inquiry, which encompasses Trump’s inflammatory talk to a rally that Eastman and Giuliani also addressed before the Capitol attack on January 6, has accelerated with grand jury testimony from former vice-president Mike Pence and ex-chief of staff Mark Meadows. Smith has also gained cooperation from two Nevada fake electors who have testified before a Washington grand jury. Moreover, investigators from Smith’s office interviewed Giuliani under a “proffer” arrangement, which does not preclude charges against him, seeking to ferret out details about the fake electors plotting and related schemes, as the New York Times reported.

(snip)

“By obtaining testimony from fake electors, Smith may be better able to nail down what information and advice passed between these soldiers in the larger scheme and those Trump lawyers who helped to concoct it,” said Dan Richman, a law professor at Columbia and an ex-prosecutor in New York.

“Testimony that, say, electors were advised to make false statements or given deliberately misleading advice would go far to showing a deliberate fraud by Trump’s ‘brain trust’ of lawyers, including Eastman.” Richman added: “Giuliani’s willingness to give a proffer likely reflects his desire to avoid charges by showing a lack of an intent to defraud. Smith’s readiness to accept the proffer likely reflects his interest in hearing what Giuliani had to say and avoiding a grand jury proceeding at which Giuliani might well invoke his fifth amendment privilege.”

(snip)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/04/us-investigators-trump-election-plot-lawyer-john-eastman

[ancianita]

108. I know, thanks. I'm also aware that he can go wherever the facts of Trump schemes leads him.

Of course I get that his is a broad purview, and of course he's the master coordinator, and of course we know that he's not in the courtrooms. Yes, the OP meme shows him quoting that he'll pursue all connected crimes leads; thus, his subpoenas to state officials and two fake electors.

So now, "news" says they see a shifting, when he's actually doing his sworn duty.

Also keep in mind that constitutionally, elections are the states' purview, along with any state laws broken by this fake electors scheme; some fake electors' states are enforcing those laws.

As for The List, it's about who aided/abetted/after the fact helped the principal plotters at the federal level. Let me know if you think there's another law touching on the fake electors scheme that I missed, since the OP lists the federal laws violated by the fake electors scheme that apply to Eastman, Perry, Johnson, Tuberville, and others.

Thanks for your post and the timely news links about the fake electors players and enablers. This all provides a broad context to the anti-democratic forces the Smith/DOJ is prosecuting.

[BumRushDaShow]

110. I know I have posted over and over

the odd but actual fact that "elections" are handled by the "states". However this does not preclude the federal role for elections involving federal office, notably that for President/Vice President. And unfortunately, there was enough ambiguity between the 12th Amendment and the Electoral Count Act of 1887 that you not only had legal loopholes exploited, but some bizarre theories used to justify these "fake electors", which attempted to not only end-run around the state authorities' (either Governor and/or SOS) approval/signature/submission of Certificates of Ascertainment, but also alter what is typically a "ceremonial" opening of and reading the results from the state Electoral Count certificates during a joint session of Congress.

Members of Congress like Ted Cruz (who "promised" to litigate before the Supreme Court), was a part of this exploitive misinterpretation of the Constitution and subsequent Electoral Count laws. Any of those in Congress who worked with Eastman are suspect.

This is what prompted passage of S.4573 - Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022, which was rolled into an appropriations bill, and which clarified the roles and procedures of what happens during that process, including dismissing any assumptions that the VP (who is President Pro Tempore of the Senate) can summarily reject the Certificates of Ascertainment presented, and pick and choose a different set of Electors or somehow has the authority to send the issue "back to the states".

That wacky theory of state legislatures throwing out votes and deciding the Electors, was of course batted down by the SCOTUS just a few weeks ago.

Supreme Court rejects Independent State Legislature theory, but leaves door ajar
Updated June 27, 2023 6:42 PM ET


Nina Totenberg
5-Minute Listen



The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday repudiated the most extreme form of a controversial legal theory that, if adopted, would have radically reshaped the way elections are conducted, giving state legislatures virtually unchecked power to decide election rules.

By a 6-to-3 vote, the court rejected the so-called Independent State Legislature theory advanced by the Republican-dominated North Carolina state legislature. Writing for the court majority, Chief Justice John Roberts said that the U.S. Constitution does not, as the lawmakers had claimed, insulate their actions from review by the state courts. To the contrary, he said, state legislative power is constrained by the federal and state constitutions, as well as ordinary state laws.

At the same time, however, Roberts said that in overseeing election provisions, state courts "do not have free rein" to exceed "the ordinary bounds of judicial review."

How to know when courts do exceed that power? The court majority didn't say, leaving for another day the task of articulating a standard for determining when federal courts may tell a state court that it has gone too far in interpreting state law.

(snip)

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/27/1181152636/independent-state-legislature-theory-supreme-court-decision

This addressed the several "paths" attempted by these conspirators, to bring about the overturning of an election by using GOP-majority state legislatures to "decide the vote", including in states like here in PA. Some of those "paths" were outlined by Eastman here - https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/21/politics/read-eastman-memo/index.html (link has an embedded PDF reader and the actual PDF is here)

Regardless of how states handle "elections", the feds handle the dates for when Electoral Count Ascertainments (and Elector certificates) need to be submitted, who the copies should go to, and what happens to them once Congress/NARA, etc., has them.

And since those Ascertainments relate to a federal election of a President, once they are received by Congress/National Archive, etc., they become federal records per the process in 3 U.S. Code § 5 - Certificate of ascertainment of appointment of electors and could fall under the applicable laws associated with 18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

What will be interesting with the "fake electors" thing is whether those submissions that had no "mitigating language", would fall under a violation of 18USC §1519.

[ancianita]

111. Appreciate you! That was an awesome post -- especially laying out 18USC §1519 and 3USC § 5 !

It just wasn't enough that in 2021 Judge Michael Luttig laid it all out under oath, either.

I'll add those laws above the list.

[BumRushDaShow]

112. After having been a fed for long

every fed gets read the riot act about 18USC §1519 and any kind of "destruction of government property".

[ancianita]

113. I hear ya!

[ancianita]

119. Thank you for the three new names!

[malaise]

114. Everyone should bookmark this thread

And tick off names as they head for prison

[ancianita]

115. Agree. We can turn it into the 'DU prisontracker.'

I love linking that stuff from justice.gov.

[niyad]

116. KNR and bookmarking.

[dmr]

120. This is a wonderful thread, ancianita. Much respect to you, & others for putting this together.

I've double bookmarked this, both here on DU, and in my browser.

It's difficult to remember the details, and your OP with the subsequent posts are a great reference.

Many thanks.

[ancianita]

121. Thank you, dmr. And thanks to everyone who helped its accuracy.

We need to better understand the sweep and scope of what Special Counsel works on, and how it gives hope that the soul of America will still endure.

Hope for systems of freedom that will corral and control the dark force of mammon that grips oligarchs at home and abroad.