On Nicole Wallace right now: Garland, Wray, prevented FBI, DOJ from investigating Trump

[lees1975]

role in January 6th and the conspiracy around fake electors. The delay is the result of their intentional slowing it down and focusing on the "foot soldiers."

I think MSNBC posts videos of current shows the next day. This will be a bombshell to watch. If it is accurate, and she usually is, it will be confirmation of what many people here have been saying.

[hlthe2b]

1. She is very good at laying it out.

[GreenWave]

2. Yes those bastards protect the ultra right echelon with cockeyed excuses.

We do not want to appear partial. BS! Ask Comey about Clinton.

[Autumn]

3. People here have said that all along. We were told Garland's got this.

Yeah, he's got it.

[Celerity]

7. I can smell the cognitive dissonance cooking. nt

[wnylib]

21. So Biden chose an AG who would not pursue Trump investigations.

Or maybe Biden chose an AG who pursued a strategy of getting the foot soldiers to undercut Trump, then pursued Trump through the appointment of a SC.

[Celerity]

29. November 18, 2022

the appointment of a SC

22 and a half months after January 6th

[wnylib]

40. And? By that time, the foot soldiers were,

for the most part, weakened, undercutting Trump"s ability to call upon them.

As the OP says, the way investigations were pursued and the timing of the SC appointment indicates no political bias involved in the investigation and indictment of Trump.

[Celerity]

44. political bias charges from the Rethugs would have been launched no matter what

I do not give a tinker's what those fascist fucksticks say.

[sarcasmo]

17. +1

[SharonClark]

4. Sounds like the excellent Washington Post article from this morning.

The article is informative, well-written, and worthy of a read.

[Celerity]

12. here

FBI resisted opening probe into Trump’s role in Jan. 6 for more than a year

In the DOJ’s investigation of Jan. 6, key Justice officials also quashed an early plan for a task force focused on people in Trump’s orbit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/06/19/fbi-resisted-opening-probe-into-trumps-role-jan-6-more-than-year/

https://archive.is/XkShY

snip

Whether a decision about Trump’s culpability for Jan. 6 could have come any earlier is unclear. The delays in examining that question began before Garland was even confirmed. Sherwin, senior Justice Department officials and Paul Abbate, the top deputy to FBI Director Christopher A. Wray, quashed a plan by prosecutors in the U.S. attorney’s office to directly investigate Trump associates for any links to the riot, deeming it premature, according to five individuals familiar with the decision. Instead, they insisted on a methodical approach — focusing first on rioters and going up the ladder.

The strategy was embraced by Garland, Monaco and Wray. They remained committed to it even as evidence emerged of an organized, weeks-long effort by Trump and his advisers before Jan. 6 to pressure state leaders, Justice officials and Vice President Mike Pence to block the certification of Biden’s victory.

In the weeks before Jan. 6, Trump supporters boasted publicly that they had submitted fake electors on his behalf, but the Justice Department declined to investigate the matter in February 2021, The Post found. The department did not actively probe the effort for nearly a year, and the FBI did not open an investigation of the electors scheme until April 2022, about 15 months after the attack.

snip

“A decision was made early on to focus DOJ resources on the riot,” said one former Justice Department official familiar with the debates. “The notion of opening up on Trump and high-level political operatives was seen as fraught with peril. When Lisa and Garland came on board, they were fully onboard with that approach.” Some prosecutors even had the impression that Trump had become a taboo topic at Main Justice. Colleagues responsible for preparing briefing materials and updates for Garland and Monaco were warned to focus on foot soldiers and to avoid mentioning Trump or his close allies.

snip

[NotHardly]

30. I am so angry I could spit. MFers, each and every one of those 'head'bastards

My faith in any federal fucking LEO and their ilk will not return until everyone of those lying cheating fuckers are fired, impeached, or imprisoned. That is all.

[edisdead]

82. That is exactly what the right wings wants you to think.

[MOMFUDSKI]

5. Garland

is getting his ass kicked along w/FBI.

[wnylib]

23. And Biden, too, by implication?

He appointed Garland.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. There was great uncertainty in early 2021.

They didn't know how it would play politically, so they waited it out. Recall in the early days we went from 'not an insurrection" to "touristy" to a "protest" to "a riot" to "not a coup" to "spontaneous". The details weren't known, the hidden parts were missing. Only 6 months later did we settle on an "insurrection" and to this day most Republicans won't acknowledge the characterization in public.

So I think they sought to survey the landscape before acting. It was a new administration.

[lees1975]

9. I thought the Justice Department and FBI

weren't supposed to investigate based on "how it would play politically." One of the defenses of Garland's lack of action on this was that "he didn't want the investigation to be seen as political." Well, that can't be worked out both ways.

But they went after the "foot soldiers." Who do they think prompted those pitifully ignorant people into action? Many of them risked their careers and lost all credibility for this, and that didn't happen in a vacuum.

Wallace says that the only reason the DOJ has moved forward is public pressure. Good. That's the way democracy works. A lot of people have questioned the way this has been handled, and that's not an attack on Garland, but it's expecting reasonable accountability. We deserve tthat, in fact, as Americans, and especially Democrats who voted to put in office the President who appointed the AG, we are entitled to it. If the possibility exists that Trump could have already been prosecuted and put away by now, then we need to be able to have an opinion of that based on what we know.

[MOMFUDSKI]

15. The facts here bear that out. Sadly.

Now we are WAY behind in time and then they play “election season” to add insult to injury. BAH

[brakester]

57. Warning: collision ahead!

Because they fiddle-farted around for so long, a head-on collision of the election and hIs trial is a near certainty.

This adds layer upon layer of complications to an already fraught situation.Can a convicted felon run for election? Yes! Can a felon be president while in prison? The constitution makes no mention of it. Can a president pardon himself? That's an unknown.

He instituted a coup, for crying out loud! He promised to pardon his fellow insurrectionists!

If he gets elected, I predict with virtual certainty that we can kiss our democracy good-bye!

[triron]

70. Garland and Wray need to resign.

[edisdead]

83. How in the hell would that help now?

[aggiesal]

18. The problem is two-fold ...

Last edited Mon Jun 19, 2023, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Garland didn't want to investigate the upper tier because it might look political.
But by not investigating the upper tier, it also looks political.

He should have done the right thing and investigated, regardless of how it looked.

[gab13by13]

20. BINGO BINGO BINGO

Investigate without fear or prejudice.

Weissman went there, Garland bent over backwards to show he was not partisan and it resulted in appeasement.

Nicolle talking about classified documents now.

[sprinkleeninow]

24. Yes, he chose wrong. And now here we are. nt

[uponit7771]

59. THANK YOU !!!

[MOMFUDSKI]

78. It is a Big Country Club

and we aren't in it. Carlin rocked!

[wnylib]

25. "How it plays politically" is significant when

dealing with the potential for violence.

It should not deter legal actions, but it does indicate that prudence is needed regarding when and how something or someone is pursued.

An analogy from fiction. If you are familiar with the Harry Potter series, the last book (last two films), The Deathly Hallows, offers an analogy. Voldrmort is powerful and has many powerful followers. To defeat him, they have to undercut his strengths, the things that he created to use for his own immortality, his own super strength to persist. They are fictitious items in the book/films, called horcruxes. They must find and destroy the horcruxes in order to weaken Voldemort enough to finally destroy him and disperse what remains of his followers.

In today's real world, the analogous strategy would be to weaken Trump's army and image first, then go directly for Trump.

[uponit7771]

62. Except no rational person would think the FBI or DOJ has the "political" data that is good ...

... enough to make good decisions from.

DOJ and FBI currently are getting the "data" in regards to history, human pathology and behavioral science when it comes to attempted coups wrong to this second.

There's been a road map to how to deal with coup attempts and it was not listened to by Garland et al

[NotHardly]

36. If the person commiting the crimes is a polticial person, fuckit, investigate and arrest period!

Maybe the FBI should stop investigating clergy who screw little boys because its religious ... how many fucking excuses can they combine? Makes as much sense as not going an investigation because the fucking traitor that started the Jan6 shite is a political person... christ on a cracker, just how did they think this would look and work out once it was known. FBI apparently not good at long-term thinking and analysis. Figures.

[triron]

87. Compare how the FBI treated Hillary's emails with

Anything related to Trump.

[uponit7771]

58. +1

[brush]

8. Many of us here were saying we needed a more assertive AG...

than the oh-so, cautious Garland. If not for the J6 Committee's televised hearings, Garland might still be procrastinating and concentrating on doling out 6-week sentences to the gullibe foot soldiers trump and his leadership cabal excited to break into the Capitol building.

trump should've been tried already.

[Irish_Dem]

10. This is why some of us have been very critical of Garland and the DOJ.

Especially when it was apparent the military and intelligence agencies
are at great risk because of their inaction.

We got a lot of pushback and were even told we owed Garland an apology.
Which will never happen. He owes the American people an apology.

Garland is a coward.

[lees1975]

13. I'll wait until everything gets laid out for us to see in this before I'll go that far.

But it is certainly a fact that we got a lot of pushback, and that all of the rhetoric about how this takes time, and comparing this to other cases, and major investigations, well, none of that added up. Once Smith was assigned to this case it was a matter of just a few months to indictments that might never have come about at all if he hadn't been involved. If he'd started out in February or March of 2021, we'd have convictions and Trump would be serving prison time now, and the embarassment of not being able to control a corrupt criminal politician's run for the White House would not exist.

I get the sentimentality of appointing Garland as Attorney General, after the Republicans stole the Supreme Court seat he was up for. But looking at some of the powerhouses that were in Obama's DOJ, we may yet come to regret his being chosen as AG. I'm fair, willing to see how things shake out now, if they get indictments soon on the seditious conspiracy Trump committed in organizing and conducting the January 6th Trump Insurrection, fake electors and attempts to subvert the constitution's preaceful transfer of power. But if it doesn't all finish before the 2024 election, all of this could very well be moot.

[MOMFUDSKI]

80. War

has no room for sentiment.

[dalton99a]

14. +1. It was a huge mistake to nominate Garland for AG

[uponit7771]

63. +1

[liberalmediaaddict]

11. That's true

The audio of most MSNBC shows are available on Spotify and other streaming services a few hours after they air.

Nicole Wallace's show will also be available on Peacock tomorrow.

[RandySF]

16. Garland made it clear he was starting on the ground.

[lees1975]

19. How long did it take to figure out that Trump was deeply involved and behind it?

Couldn't have taken a year and a half, when the media had his emails and texts and verbal testimony within a week of the whole incident.

I understand patience and persistence, but with Wray's involvement here, this really looks like a deliberate delay. And as I said, I'm willing to wait to see their line of reasoning, but as many here have been saying all along, if this was done in a timely manner, started when they had the information, Trump would already be convicted for his role in January 6th, and the documents case would be further along.

[Autumn]

35. Probably a few hours for any of us who were watching TV that day. Some people in Congress

were tweeting moment by moment movements of Pelosi. There was video of Trump and his people pissing their pants with joy watching the destruction that was going on at the capitol.

[uponit7771]

64. +1, "really looks like a deliberate delay"

[Sky Jewels]

22. Oh please.

This was a literal violent coup d'etat attempt. We saw it being planned in real time. The DOJ knew the big players from day one and how they were involved. Garland went after the MAGA loons who were stupid enough to show up and do the dirty work because they were low-hanging fruit and lacked power. He didn't want to go after the real culprits because he didn't want to appear "political" in the FACE OF THE ATTEMPTED OVERTHROW OF OUR DEMOCRACY, ELECTIONS, AND ENTIRE GOVERNMENT!!!

I can't say more about Garland because I'll probably get warned or worse.

[sprinkleeninow]

26. If it was so apparent to 'us', it most certainly was to Justice. nt

[Autumn]

37. It was all fucking televised. Speaking of video when do you think we peons will ever get to

see the video taken by the cameras at the capitol? Seems to have been forgotten.

[Paladin]

42. +1000. (nt)

[Mr. Ected]

27. The only party that ever has to avoid partisanship is ours

Seems our adversary openly and smugly embraces partisan action.

Tired of the uneven playing field.

[Celerity]

32. +1

[dalton99a]

46. +1

[Emile]

69. +3

[Sky Jewels]

75. +4

[Marius25]

28. I seem to recall a thread here of people telling us Garland doubters

to apologize to him. Those of us who said he's a bad AG turned out to be right. His pathetic attempt to not appear partisan has really damaged this country by letting Trump get away with his crimes for so long.

[SheilaAnn]

39. I absolutely agree with all you said. I never had any confidence in him but was afraid of getting

into a hassle over him. Thank you.

[ShazzieB]

54. I don't recall seeing that thread.

But I don't think I ever said anything like that myself. I was always on Team Wait-and-See, because I didn't think any of us was in a position to fairly judge what Garland might or might not be doing from the outside looking in. I'll admit that I never suspected Garland, the FBI, or the DOJ as a whole of actually avoiding investigating Trump, and I now see that was naive of me. Mea culpa!

If public opinion is what led to Garland's appointing Jack Smith and giving him the authority to fully investigate Trump, then yay for public opinion! And yay for the House J6 Committee conducting those televised hearings, which I imagine were what really blew the lid off the whole thing by greatly increasing public awareness of what happened an J6, as well as Trump's personal involvement with that and with trying to change the election results in various ways.

I think one thing Garland did do right was picking Jack Smith for this job, although it seems clear now that he should have done it much sooner. Smith seems to know what he's doing and is apparently moving as fast as possible and with full awareness of the calendar. And of course, Trump has now been indicted for the documents case, at least. Regardless of what mistakes Garland may have made earlier on, things are headed in right direction now, and I am hopeful that it's not too late.

[Earth-shine]

61. There were numerous OPs and threads on DU chastising us who plainly saw Garland dragging it.

They said "Obama picked him" and "Biden picked him" and that's good enough for me.

Blind loyalty to politicians instead of common sense.

[triron]

72. Garland needs to resign as does Wray

[edisdead]

84. How does that help right now?

[triron]

88. Ok agree but only for now

Wray needs to go once Smith is done.

[poli-junkie]

31. DOJ & FBI's lagging to investigate the higher

ups has allowed fascism to fester & grow.

I am livid.

[Escurumbele]

33. It is a tough call at this time. Did the DOJ need to indict and extract information from the

"foot soldiers"? Did they need that proof to escalate to the top heads?

My understanding is that in order to get to the top you have to climb and get as much information as possible in order to build a solid case. I have not been a fan of Garland, but it also may be because I wanted to see justice done due to our feeling that we know the buffoon is guilty, but without proof that can could present to a judge and a jury about the culpability of the buffoon we had sitting in the presidency for four years is a sentiment but no facts, something the DOJ cannot afford to do.

If by the end of the day the buffoon is held accountable, and his minions as well, then I will be happy, but if they are not all held accountable, that will not only anger many of us, but that will be the end of our Democracy as we know it.

I hate to say this, but none of us have the full information of what transpired that day, and most of us (maybe none) have the experience and the knowhow to carry on with such an investigation. At this time we have to put our faith on those who are doing the work and hope for the best.

Did they feel they had to gather information for a full year to get to trump? Maybe, most probably.

[uponit7771]

66. Looks like they had enough information to take action on those on the top including Benedict Donald

... and the reason they didn't is cause they didn't want "look political" as if they had enough concrete data to decipher what was political to a majority of Americans in regards to legal justice.

Hell, M$M can't keep from clickbait under sampled and high MOE polls to this day but the DOJ and FBI are going to get the pulse of America right?!

It doesn't look like they needed more than a year, they had the information on Benedict Donald

[Lonestarblue]

34. Trump incited insirrection via Twitter and on national TV on January 6.

“Go to the Capitol. I’ll be there with you.” “Fight like hell, or you won’t have a country left.” What does it take to surmise that the capitol attack would not have happened without Trump calling his troops to action! Telling his troops to overturn the US government so he could remain president illegally when he clearly lost the election. So much time has passed now that Republicans have had time to change their stories about January 6 several times over. This delay means the MAGA cult, and even somewhat normal Republicans, will think it’s politically motivated because Trump is running for president again.

[inthewind21]

51. It takes

proof. Not surmising. This is the US, not N. Korea.

By they way, the definition of surmise.

surmising
/sərˈmīz/
suppose that something is true without having evidence to confirm it.
"he surmised that something must be wrong"

[dchill]

38. Boom. There it is.

What say you?

[lapucelle]

41. Marcy Wheeler's take.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/06/19/the-wapo-shows-there-should-be-more-scrutiny-of-steve-dantuono/

[Pinback]

47. Quite interesting

Extremely well thought out and meticulously documented as always from Empty Wheel. Thanks.

[Hotler]

56. Note that investigations seemed to dead end at the money trail. I even think that Liz Cheney

didn't want to go there.

[uponit7771]

68. +1, I made this point to a friend who was asking why too many GQP still aren't calling for TFGs head

... and I said it was they know too many in the GQP are taking money from Russia.

[uponit7771]

67. +1

[Joinfortmill]

43. So, Garland didn't move fast enough for some...

We're in it now and we will see if his caution was a wise decision. I trust Biden's decision to choose Garland, and Garland's decision to choose Smith.

[lees1975]

81. He knew what was at stake.

Trump gets away with all of this if ANY Republican wins in 2024. According to these reports, if they are accurate, and Wallace usually gets the facts right, they knew what was at stake and made the decision to go after the "foot soldiers" first. So where did they think those orders came from?

The DOJ was a swamp hole of corruption when Biden was elected and one of the expectations I had was that he would clean it up and put someone competent in there after the disastrous leadership it had under Trump. I didn't know much about Garland then, except that he'd been nominated by Obama for the Supreme Court. But I knew the DOJ under Obama had some powerhouse leadership. So it's not out of place to have expected more when these document crimes and the seditious conspiracy surrounding the attempt to steal the election occurred. That's a massive crime against the people of the United States and a competent Attorney General who knew the law and wasn't concerned about "political appearances," would have jumped on that right away, and it would be over now, with Trump in jail.

So you're right, he didn't move fast enough. What kind of crime does someone have to commit to move the nation's top law enforcement officer to action?

[Historic NY]

45. Biden should fire Wray

[triron]

74. Why not also garland?

[Sky Jewels]

76. I don't know why he didn't clean house in early 2021.

We will pay the price for years and years.

[Historic NY]

48. The plotters and planning staff need to be taken out

Unless Ali Alexander or Meadows gave them enough to save their asses. Meanwhile they try their damnest to play Trump defense. Lets see some indictments we all know who they are.

[3825-87867]

49. First off...

Wray should have been gone Jan 21st.
It's also a possibilty that Garland misled or lied to Joe and others.
Maybe Garland hired Smith because Biden "suggested" it. And when this is all over and done (if ever) we will see Garland's resignation or firing.
His resignation now would look very bad.
Joe's in a hard spot with him just like DeJoy but not with Wray. Wray needs gone.
Meanwhile, we need to keep pressuring everyone in politics concerned!

[moniss]

50. It may be

that on the QT within DOJ there was threat of resignations if they didn't move forward. Possibly added push to Garland deciding to appoint a SC? Who knows. Remember Mueller and Bragg.

[LaMouffette]

52. I think Garland had to be cautious because of the 40 percent of Americans who believed the 2020

election was rigged or stolen.

After January 6th, there was NOT universal outrage over Trump's insurrection. Many, if not most, Republicans were not horrified by the violence that day, but were elated and proud of the insurrectionists and believed they were doing a patriotic act.

If Trump had been investigated or indicted immediately, those same people would have seen that as proof that Biden stole the election and now sought to imprison their beloved leader. This could have easily led to more violence and on a larger scale.

I believe it took the prosecution of the foot soldiers, plus the revelation of the stolen top secret documents, for it to get through these dumb asses' thick skulls that maybe Trump is a lying piece of shit who used them in a massive attempt to do exactly what he was accusing Joe Biden of: stealing an election.

So I stand by Garland's decision to wait to go after the big prize. However, now that he has the goods on Trump, he had better see to it that Trump (1) sees prison time; and (2) is prevented from being elected and having access to US secret documents ever again.

If he doesn't, then, yeah, we should all be righteously pissed.

[uponit7771]

73. 😲😲😲" there was NOT universal outrage over Trump's insurrection" . I don't agree, Americans

... didn't want their national capital attacked and the government taken over by a bunch of 100% dumbasses following another dumbass.

The issue with this conclusion and the FBI / DOJ attempting to decipher "political landscapes" is they don't have the data to do such.

They don't have oversampled week by week perspectives enough to even think of claiming what the political landscape was at all.

They did have history and what has happened in the past when high ranking officials were prosecuted and they should've went by that but decided to trust their armpit smells when it comes to politics.

[LaMouffette]

77. Most Americans were outraged, but disgustingly, there were many Republicans who approved of the

attack. Even to this day, more than a quarter of Republicans in a March 2023 poll said they approved of the attack.

From a March 2023 article in The Guardian:

More than a quarter of Republicans approve of Capitol attack, poll shows

Survey also reveals more than half of Republicans think January 6 was a form of legitimate political discourse

More than a quarter of Republicans approve of the January 6 Capitol attack, according to a new poll. More than half think the deadly riot was a form of legitimate political discourse.

The Economist and YouGov survey said 27% of Republicans either strongly or somewhat approved of the riot on 6 January 2021, which Donald Trump incited in an attempt to overturn his election defeat by Joe Biden.

But, hell, I don't know. It's impossible to say what would have happened if Trump had been arrested within weeks of the insurrection. Another insurrection? Or would an arrest have been the slap in the face that his followers needed to wake up to the fact that their leader was a criminal?

[uponit7771]

79. Those are republicans while FAUX Newz is lying to them. The way to make the lies legit is to ...

... NOT take meaningful, fast hard hitting action and that's what the DOJ did ... little to nothing.

There's no way MAGA could think what they did if the DOJ went after them like they were black or native Americans.

MAGA would've known at minimum shit was thick and the DOJ wasn't playing around

[Ponietz]

53. The country faces no greater immediate need than holding the traitors accountable

Without justice I don’t give a fuck. Too much smoke blown out of too many asses. They usher in a new dark age with their ineptitude, lack of courage, and complicity.

[bronxiteforever]

55. I know it's obligatory but damn it needs to be said

[republianmushroom]

60. 28 months and counting

I'm shocked.... Dept. of Justice ??? Don't seem much better than trumps Dept. of Justice.

[moondust]

65. I can wait for Garland's explanation.

There may be some mitigating factors such as DOJ wayyy understaffed to handle hundreds of investigations and prosecutions of the J6 lackeys plus going after the criminals at the top including a former "President" with a well-armed "militia" of Proud Boys, Oaf Keepers, etc., in addition to their normal workload; possible pressure from below from agents who may have refused to go after their authoritarian strongman; Garland was new AG in 2021 and DOJ may have needed restructuring after TFG/Barr, etc.

[Emile]

71. So Garland has proven to be weak on crime.

Last edited Tue Jun 20, 2023, 04:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Imagine that.

[lees1975]

85. Something we seem to be forgetting.

The House had investigated all of this, gathered the evidence, laid it out, made its case and put it out in front of the American people and while they had it all to hand right over to the DOJ, there's a delay in them getting in gear to get going on it? The House investigation had enough evidence to charge seditious conspiracy and make it stick.

So yes, we need to hear from Garland and Wray why they waited.

[edisdead]

86. Holy shit the right wing talking points in here.

Giving me the heebie jeebies