With All Due Respect, DUers Have Almost Nothing to Do

[MineralMan]

with the actions of federal departments and agencies. No matter how annoyed, frustrated, impatient, or disgusted we might be with how federal government affairs proceed, they proceed as they do. That is not to say that it is wrong to comment on those things, but to let them capture our every thought and to belabor our dissatisfaction day after day accomplishes nothing but to foment more dissatisfaction.

Yesterday, we learned that indictments have been handed down against former President Donald J. Trump. That was a long-awaited outcome. Eventually, he will have his day in court, if he manages to live long enough to face those charges. It will not happen soon, nor will it happen in a way that pleases those who want instant justice for his vile actions.

No amount of complaining, fretting, accusing, or any other commentary is going to change the course of any upcoming federal prosecution of this case. It will happen, but in its own time.

We are spectators. All of us who do not hold some position that is directly involved with this case are spectators. It's going to be an interesting drama that plays out. I plan to follow it closely, as I have everything that has come before. But, as a spectator, I realize that I have no effect on any of it. I can only watch. And hope it turns out as I believe it should.

Patience. It's not just a good idea. It's the only option available to us.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Well said MM.....Good things come to those who wait....

Though we want the results to come sooner than later.

[MineralMan]

11. Thank you. We'll know when it happens, whatever it is.

[DENVERPOPS]

37. Years ago

during the W years, a Republican Aide summed it all up when he was Talking to a Dem Politician in the House or Senate.

He stated: "We will do whatever we want, and your only action will be reduced to just watching" or something like that....

I am old and seriously doubt I will ever see any justice, or their complete and immediate destruction of our Democracy, Economy and Constitution,.........which ever comes first.

I honestly don't believe that most of the U.S. Citizens realize just how near we came, on Jan 6th, to the IMMEDIATE destruction of our Democracy, Economy and Constitution. And we are still on the brink of that happening today.

On Jan7th, if the Repubs had succeeded, they would have had, in place, a Corporate Fascist Tyranny forever more.

[PatSeg]

68. Yes I remember that,

but I can't recall who said it. It drove me crazy at the time.

I am old as well, but I am fairly confident that I will see the beginnings of true justice. Of course there are days when I believe the opposite and anticipate Armageddon.

[treestar]

73. Yes, "we create our reality" and the rest of you live with it

a big boast of power. I want to say it as Karl Rove, but am not sure.

[DENVERPOPS]

93. As I recall

it was during the brooks brother's riot with republican aides that were shipped into riot and pound on the glass wall protesting.......or right after that demonstration........

That was in 2000

[calimary]

98. I think you're right. Karl Rove.

Wonder what that scum bucket is up to, these days.

[Permanut]

2. Great prescription for keeping my blood pressure down .

Spot on, as usual, MineralMan

[cachukis]

3. Hanging around at thirty thousand feet.

[malaise]

4. Great post

That said I’m celebrating the second indictment.
Rec.

[MineralMan]

12. Yes, absolutely.

There may well be more of those to come.

[PCIntern]

5. Wait....wut.... WHAT?????

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Merrick Garland and Jack Smith are not spending most of their time reading DU posts in order to find out what they should be doing? I find that difficult to believe, since every right-thinking person I know is glued to this website day and night.

MM, it’s people like you what cause unrest….

******************

This reminds me of that story about the reporter who told the lady in Manhattan that George W. Bush had won the presidential election, and her reply was that that was impossible, she did not know a single person who had voted for him.

[MineralMan]

8. LOL!

[stopdiggin]

21. What? You mean Merrick and Jack AREN'T ... ?

Man .. talk about bursting a bubble ... !

---- ----

[brooklynite]

22. Um, I don't mean to quibble, but the story was about NIXON getting elected.

[PCIntern]

57. When o heard it it was about junior.

I believe you, but I hadn’t heard it back in 1968….still in high school.

[Walleye]

6. One thing I remember from Woodstock, hundreds of thousands of people yelling at the sky "no rain"

And it just kept pouring harder and harder. It didn’t matter how many people wished it or how sincerely or how loudly we expressed it, the rain kept pouring down. That was when I learned that people don’t really have the power we think we do sometimes. The rain doesn’t care how many people hate it. Good post, MM

[MineralMan]

10. Thanks.

[Ocelot II]

7. I'm going to stock up on popcorn and watch the show

because it's all I can do, and it's fascinating (reminds me a bit of watching the Watergate hearings). You can cheer or boo from the sidelines but you can't influence the players or the umpires so you might as well sit back and enjoy the spectacle. It's history and it's riveting but as far as the ultimate outcome is concerned we might as well be sitting in the stands at the ballpark. And the game will go into extra innings so be ready to spring for extra hotdogs and beer.

However, I have other things to do, too, and I will continue to do them. It's a beautiful morning so I'm off for a walk through the bird sanctuary, and Trump will still be indicted when I get back.

[MineralMan]

9. Yeah, me, too.

I have other things to do, as well. I'll just keep checking in to see what has happened, as always.

[Keepthesoulalive]

13. No more drama

I appreciate your calm approach and your wisdom. I sometimes feel we’re watching a wrestling match.

[MineralMan]

14. Interesting analogy...

[DENVERPOPS]

39. This old adage came to mind...........

At some point when you are wrestling with a pig in the mud and crap, you suddenly realize that the pig is actually enjoying it.....

[calimary]

99. Man, that's for sure.

A never-ending wrestling match. Maybe that’s what Hell is?

[JanLip]

15. You are right as usual

MineralMan. I will definitely be spectating!!

Jan

[MineralMan]

16. We all will be, I'm sure.

[stopdiggin]

17. how boringly .. grownup.

100% true, but still ...
Are you sure you couldn't throw in a handful of capital letters - and something about "RIGHT Fing NOW!"
'Cause we want to know that you really MEAN it!

----- --- ----------- --- -----

[MineralMan]

19. LOL!

[Yavin4]

18. The broader issue that DUers should be thinking about is...

how did our systems fail us? How did our systems even allow such a corrupt, unfit person to take the Whitehouse in the first place?

Our concern should be on how to prevent people like Trump from even being taken seriously.

[MineralMan]

20. Well, yes.

As always, our primary course of action is at the polling place. And, as always, GOTV is the tool we have to influence the outcomes. That's boring, of course, but crucial.

[Yavin4]

23. Think broader.

There are large swaths of our fellow Americans whose lives are so empty that they would turn to a shameless huckster like Trump. We need to think of ways of connecting with them before we even go to the polls because by then it will be too late.

[TwilightZone]

29. Their lives aren't empty.

They're filled with fear and hate for "others". That drives a not insignificant chunk of them and is what Trump tapped into.

The whole "economic anxiety" nonsense was always bullshit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html

[Yavin4]

33. I didn't say anything about economic anxiety.

You could be doing well economically and still your life is empty. Also, their "fear and hate" will be with us long after Trump, DeSantis, et al. are long gone.

How do we create a culture where there are fewer and fewer of these people? .

[betsuni]

48. He's hate radio come to life and their lives are full and busy being angry victims.

That the economic anxiety bullshit is STILL around and used to blame Democrats is really annoying.

[underpants]

24. Mmmm

Here it is second indictment day....
and I still have my first indictment day decorations up.

[msfiddlestix]

25. We also have to get a grip on the very real like hoo, we not observe any trial before 2024 Elections

Just saying that we need to psychologically be prepared and move on with our lives.

I'm working on it.. it ain't easy because I want to see justice, I want to see accountability, I want to see a return to some level of decency and stability for my grandchildren's sake and their potential future families. like Yesterday. But I'm old enough to remember the shock of Nixon Pardon in real time. So. there's that history and everything since then.

And I also don't be put down for waning those things by my own tribe.

It's bad enough hearing that from magats.

[EarnestPutz]

26. MinMan!!! I've missed you! Nice to hear from you with your usual, concise, accurate and somewhat..

....pithy take on things. All of this, nicely stated. I do indeed need an occasional reminder to be a "patient spectator", hard though it is.
How's that old pickup doing?

[GarySeven]

27. Minor grammatical correction

Indictments for violations of the Espionage Act are "handed up" to a court; Sentences for seditious conspiracy, treason, and obstruction of justice are "handed down" from the court.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Interesting. What does that difference mean?

[GarySeven]

51. Just the way I was taught to write court stories during my reporting career.

The judge, or court, sits above the proceedings, so things go up and things come down from the bench.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

52. Reread and makes sense. Thanks for passing down your knowledge!

[H2O Man]

28. Recommended.

And yet we shall see some folks' inner Eeyores shining through today.

[Easterncedar]

61. That's usually me

I’ll try to live in the happy moment

[H2O Man]

78. No, not you!

I've never seen anything close to that from you!

[MineralMan]

62. Yes, of course.

[Biophilic]

30. Dear Sir, unfortunately I feel the need to disagree with you about this.

Yes, we are spectators, but we are way more than spectators. What is happening in this country affects all of us directly. We have had to spend the last years with a criminal making the most news and appearing to be beyond the touch of the law. The fact that many people lost their patience over this is understandable. It matters and affects each of us because it has a direct bearing on the future of our country. Yeah, mostly I'll be enjoying the show, but a little part of me will be very anxious and worried about the outcome as well as the side effects of this fiasco. Part of still can't believe that this happened to my country. Sometimes I want to scream, sometimes to cry, but always to cheer on the "troops" like Jack Smith who are fighting these traitors and criminals.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Agree 100%. Think we all know that the legal system

grinds along. That is a valid point by OP for sure. But to accept that without expression of personal frustration because it all does affect us, like you say, is stifling.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

50. I agree

People need to vent at times. If they violate the terms of the TOS they certainly can have their posts removed or even be banned.

[allegorical oracle]

65. Well said. Life in general is frustrating, so it's nice to have a nice place among folks of a

similar viewpoint to express that hot air. Especially about politics and all the neighbors are drumpster crazies.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

67. Exactly.

Hang in there

[Hekate]

31. There you go again, being all rational and stuff. Good morning, my friend!

[MineralMan]

36. I just can't keep myself from doing that...

[Harker]

32. It's about damned time someone said that.

(A helpful observation, and nicely put.)

[TeamProg]

34. Time for an Extra Large Popcorn

[Laura PourMeADrink]

35. Good points.. but if we can't vent here where? Venting good!!

[Fiendish Thingy]

41. Your logic will be difficult to swallow

For those who are addicted to the instant gratification of recreational outrage.

[Richard D]

42. I don't know . . .

. . . but somehow I doubt that if 75% of the country was pro-tfg and rising up against him being criminally prosecuted that we might be seeing a different outcome.

[Hortensis]

43. Lol. Spitting into the social media wind a bit?

Not a wasted message, though. Most of us are only silly part of the time and would prefer it be a very small part.

Btw, reminds me that I've never had to take a Valium or whatever. When tRump was elected, I seriously worried that I might need to get a prescription.

[grantcart]

44. DU is effective group therapy

It is the best place for well informed citizens who care deeply about public policy, good government and a compassionate society to vent their spleen.

It's most effective function is to spread good information, alleviate cynicism and improve morale so that it's contributors are more effective in their own personal world. That is quite an achievement even if we don't move big institutions which you correctly point out are unaffected by DU.

[Hortensis]

46. That too, thanks.

[MineralMan]

63. Well, in some cases it can be therapeutic, but

it's also often depressing, which is hardly therapeutic.

[KS Toronado]

45. This spectator can wait while Тяцмp divides his party.

[louis-t]

47. What do you mean? I sign every petition Move On sends me!

And Left Action. And Daily Kos. You mean those are just fundraising tactics? I'm shocked, I tell you.

[jaxexpat]

49. I have something I will and must do!

My dear MM,

It was about 14 months ago when I became one of the poster children for "impatient people and their impatient ways". At that initial stage in my burgeoning tantrumhood, I committed to "happily acknowledge the error of my ways upon Trump's indictment for a serious crime".

It is, then, with great pleasure that I admit to the error in my thinking. This justice system thing might work after all, at least occasionally.

If my whining and beating my fists and feet on the floor helped speed the process along in any capacity, I am not aware of it and cannot claim. However, it may not be prudent to totally discount the possibility. That powder need remain dry.

So, then, I remain.

Dutifully yours,
Happy Error Admitter and Standby Griper at Large

[MineralMan]

64. LOL!

[edhopper]

53. DU is a forum that allows members to

express their opinion within the protocols established. "I don't like what you said" is not one of them.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

76. Good one

[TwilightZone]

82. Sure, it is.

There's nothing wrong with voicing disapproval of the assertions or opinions of others. That is made quite clear in the rules of the site.

[edhopper]

84. To be clear

I meant members who say you should not post something because they don't like it.

[dalton99a]

90. +1. People are free to talk and speculate in a discussion forum.

Incidentally "que sera, sera" is a lousy way to motivate voter turnout

[edhopper]

94. True That

[dembotoz]

54. um special election 24th assembly wisconsin

bob tatterson election info here

https://wisconsinexaminer.com/brief/no-primary-to-be-held-in-special-election-for-assembly-district-24-seat/


website here

https://www.bobtatterson.com/



no we don't get the summer off

[The Mouth]

55. I for one am tired of Presidential Politics

I live in California. Many others of us live in states where their vote for President will have little chance of having any influence on the election.

I'm flat-out tired of all the mental energy spent on Trump, or what is happening in Florida or Texas.

We should put that same amount of effort into our local elections.

Your congressional representative matters
Your city council and county/parish supervisors matter
your school boards and judges matter
all matter far more in MY day to day life than who is President, particularly because I can do pretty much nothing (except perhaps strategic donations) as to Presidential outcomes.

For the amount of time some of my friends spend bitching and griping about Trump on various social media, they could do something significant in terms of campaigning for good, progressive local officials.

I get that Trump is an abomination, worthy of ridicule, even fun to make fun of, but the real issues are the stuff within a few miles of your home.

Just a cranky .02

[Axelrods_Typewriter]

96. 110% agreed.

The thing I always try to hammer home when trying to get people to vote in local elections that aren't seen as important is that local elections and politicans affect your life insanely more than national ones. And that you can make a much bigger difference getting behind local democrats vs. donating 10 bucks to a national race.

[The Mouth]

109. I will give the Tea Party their due; they did what needs to be done

-First, win the city council races, control the polling places
-Second, win the county/parish races; control the vote-counting mechanism
-Third, win the state houses and draw the districts
-Fourth, send whoever the hell you please as electoral college votes and congress critters.
-Fifth, read Alinsky (the image of Patton gloating as he defeats Rommel's forces "You magnificant bastard, I read your book" has been mentioned by more than one Reich winger regarding 'Rules for Radicals') and pick your targets.

[Autumn]

56. I'm not a spectator, this is my fucking country. I have skin in the game.

[nolabear]

58. Well sure. I mean, I enjoy our discussions and timeliness

but I don’t think we’re more than an interesting echo chamber—and I don’t mean that in a bad way. We’ve heard in the past from the occasional small legislator and media personality but no, we don’t affect policy.

We sure affect my ability to tolerate the vicissitudes of American politics though. You know—a place where everybody knows your screen name.

[ecstatic]

59. I don't agree with you. I think most officials would have been happy to sweep

everything under the rug. Not because they support trump but because dealing with him is a headache and dangerous.

[CTyankee]

60. But the struggle never stops. I think of the women who are imperiled by a pregnancy they can't or

desperately need/wish not to carry to term. Their desperation goes on. They are victims of the abuse of our hard earned rights now gone.

[MineralMan]

66. There are legal actions and lawsuits that are succeeding.

Those can have good effects. None are being filed by DU. We can do things, but just talking about things does nothing.

The easiest, simplest action we can take is to vote and to urgently ask others to do the same. GOTV! That is our primary method for creating change. In the meantime, suing to protect rights is a very useful action. There are organizations that are doing just that. Support those.

[CTyankee]

72. Well, I love DU because it keeps me active politically. Perhaps that is DU's strength, it powers us

up. I feel a bit out of it because here in CT I got what I wanted: to live in a pro-choice, liberal state
with a lot of smart people (blessings on you, Yale). And my husband retired from the city as head of the Homeless agency. I retired from Planned Parenthood, where I raised much needed funds.

But DU has been my political lifeline since retirement. It's been that ever since I found DU on the day I voted for John Kerry for president.

[Artcatt]

69. Newsflash: people are scraped RAW by what's going on and

they’re GONNA b*tch and emote. So have a good cry and move on.

[MineralMan]

70. Yah, OK, then...

[Upthevibe]

71. MineralMan......

Well said!

I have too much anxiety to watch the play-by-plays.....

During the weeks of the budget fight/possible shut-down, I watched TCM, my favortie sitcoms to make me laugh, and Dateline marathons to make me relieved I'm not in a bad marriage....

[Demsrule86]

74. Nice to see you MM. You are absolutely correct.

[treestar]

75. There must have been a claim that

the indictments finally came down because of the pressure exerted!

Reminds me of "beatings will continue until morale improves" as if Garland would be motivated by all the complaints and get off his butt and do something! But is that really so motivating?

DU did have some public figures in that corner, and though DU might not have the influence, maybe that contingent could - I think it was Lawrence Tribe? Some public figures saying it should and could have been done before. But even they don't know much about it and Garland likely has too much work to do to spend time listening to them either.

[Farmer-Rick]

77. I don't know if DU had an affect but

Since I have been on this board, I have seen a marked improvement in Democratic politicians' embracing our liberal base.

The GQP always supports and eggs on the extreme base of their party. Before Raygun, Republicons were conservative but not crazy. My own father, who fought in WWII, was a Republican. He would never have supported W or TFG because he was an honorable man. But because the right has taken the most destructive and idiotic side of conservatism to their hearts, we now have sociopaths and brainless fools for politicians.

But on the left there was this tendency to ridicule, abuse and talk down to their own liberal roots. Rham Emanuel and austerity were two representations of the left beating up on their own supporters.

Not sure which politician said it but I think a Democrat said, "Where else are they going to go?" when referring to liberal politics. Implying that liberals had to vote for Democrats because there was no other liberal group to vote for.

I hope we have learned from Trump's, and to some extent W's, manipulated wins that there is another vote that can be cast and that's to stay home or vote for a spoiler. We need every liberal to come out and vote for Democratic candidates even if they are Socialist, Communists, rich leftist elites, POC, women and college students. I think that is the take home message from an idiot like Trump winning the electoral college.

I see that sentiment reflected here on DU. So, perhaps DU does contribute to the general group think and helps push for a justice system filled with more justice.

[appalachiablue]

106. Good post, the comment was made by Clinton I think.

[Snooper9]

79. That is a lot of commas

[MineralMan]

80. What was the comma count?

I don't count them.

[BlackSkimmer]

81. K and r.

[TwilightZone]

83. The assertion that we're the reason for the indictments is laughable.

And, yet, it's been made countless times and continues to be made, even right here in this thread. (Note: not by you, of course.)

The influence of DU has been exaggerated about as long as the site has been around. Some people do insist that we're somehow influencing the investigations, but as you noted, unless we're personally involved, it's just hyperbole.

I think the constant negativity by some (some of them very, very vocal) is a serious problem. The incessant "ain't nothing gonna happen" attitude of some around here certainly does no one any favors. I think it causes a significant amount of undue consternation and stress. I occasionally think it's intentional, though I would hope it's not.

[ecstatic]

101. When I say "we," I'm referring to Democrats in general,

including activists and TV anchors. I assume that's what most other people mean as well. It wouldn't make sense to only be talking about DUers. When people are only referring to DU members, they say so.

[Qutzupalotl]

85. I don't know. Some people here are counting months,

so that certainly will make the cases go faster.

[ForgedCrank]

86. I had

absolutely no idea until you explained it to me.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

87. I agree with your analysls

[WarGamer]

88. +100... absolutely well said

[Silent3]

89. We can't do anything about the weather either...

...but it's a common topic of conversation, especially when it's really bad.

There's no harm in expressing displeasure over things you can't influence. It's a basic human outlet for discontent.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

91. You can effect change

A wise man once said something like,
"One voice can change a room, and if one voice can change a room, then it can change a city, and if it can change a city, it can change a state, and if it change a state, it can change a nation, and if it can change a nation, it can change the world."

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

92. Having an effect is why I joined this forum, back when Obama was running

I thought I knew a strategy that could help him win, and I thought that somehow that strategy might bubble up by making it known, here on this forum!

[Hotler]

95. Please lecture us some more. nt

[MineralMan]

100. OK

[progressoid]

102. +1

[WheelWalker]

97. The time for a thing is when it happens.

[SouthernDem4ever]

103. Well maybe it's time to do something

Buy a lawn sign the says "Trump Lies" or "Trump causes hate". I guess we're not there yet.

[FailureToCommunicate]

104. Maybe **some** of us ARE in a position of influence. Besides, we ALL vote. AND, can GOTV

So, that's not nothing.

Just my two cents (from a position of not being in power).

-FTC

[slightlv]

105. There you go being all rational again..! (LOL)

But, speaking directly from my heart... I'm sick and tired of having no influence, not even with my vote! Sick to death of it, in fact. It should NOT be this way. I've been so gerrymandered I might as well not even exist; for all the good it does, my vote doesn't seem to, except **maybe** in local formats. Even then, I've been gerrymandered twice in THIS tiny town. Patience? I'm of the old adage "Lord grant me patience... and I want it NOW!" club.

At my age and in my health situation, I'm done with patience. It's never done me any good and I've tried it and the Serenity Prayer so many, many times. Tried to meditate my way to patience and calm waiting. All that ever got was nothing, but the Supreme Court basically declaring myself, my sister, my daughters, and all our friends 2nd class citizens. We screamed and yelled and marched in the 60's and 70's and accomplished things. Those accomplishments wouldn't have happened if we waiting calmly and patiently for the PWB to do the right thing.

It may not be good for my BP, but at this point in my life I feel I've earned the right to mouthing off, and I take it as a duty to the younger generation to show them you don't HAVE to accept what isn't right. You CAN fight back against evil, just prepared to be disappointed time and time again... just do NOT give up the fight.

Each of us do what is right and proper for themselves and those around them. If you can stay calm while those all around you are losing their minds (gryn), I salute you. I just ain't one of them... (sigh)

[llmart]

107. I disagree with your subject line

I don't think anyone on DU really labors under the delusion that their opinions written on this forum are in any way going to influence how the prosecution unfolds. In my opinion (I hope we're still allowed to have those on this site), is there are three types of posters: optimists, pessimists and realists. I think I'm in the last category. A realist looks at past precedents and outcomes and says, "I have no idea how this is all going to turn out, but if history and everything I've experienced in my 74 years on this earth are correct, then we still have a lot of work to do in this country to get anywhere close to equal justice under the law."

I am momentarily pleased that these indictments finally came down, but this is far from over, and I'll remain skeptical that he receives the justice that anyone else besides a wealthy, privileged white male with powerful connections would receive. What we don't need right now is for you to chastise fellow DU'ers who are frustrated because they see time and time again that certain people seem to be above the law in this country. It's a system that is unequal and we may never reach a utopian judicial system, but this is still a democracy (so far) and we have a right to complain, fret, accuse and comment on our country's shortcomings, otherwise we might as well be Russia.

If the DU'ers whose pessimistic posts are upsetting to you and have a great influence over your emotional well-being, then don't read their posts. I read most of the posts and like seeing the different points of view and personalities - the eternal optimists, the eternal pessimists, the middle of the roaders, and then I go about the rest of the day and my life just like I did before reading them. I seem to remember you had some really pessimistic posts about Joe Biden's chances of winning the election. I recall one after the Iowa primaries where you took Democrats to task for being in "complete disarray".

So, with all due respect, you be you and let the rest of us be ourselves.

[Scrivener7]

108. "No amount of complaining, fretting, accusing, or any other commentary is going to change

the course of any upcoming federal prosecution of this case."

This is true. And rather self-evident. But you seem to be saying we shouldn't comment because it is not fruitful.

So why are you commenting?