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Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:23 AM Nov 2012

I Wouldn't Have Believed Things Like This Do Happen...Until I Witnessed It Myself.

I have an older sister who has lived in Spain ever since meeting and marrying a Spanish national during her time at university there, and she flew into town last week for a visit that will last until after the holidays.

She is staying with my parents, and her son, my nephew, flew down from Syracuse University where he teaches to see his mother and visit with the rest of the family.


When I was over my folks having dinner with everyone on Saturday and catching up on things, I mentioned that I was going to go shopping on Sunday at Costco, and my sister asked if she could tag along, as she had never been to one, and would like to see what they have and see if she get some early holiday shopping done.

I said, sure, the more the merrier, and my nephew said that he wanted to go, too.

Anyway, we did some shopping, my sister and her son bought a bunch of stuff, I spent way more than I intended to (I do that every damn time I go to Costco!) and we proceeded to the checkout.

Now, when my sister and her son converse together, they automatically revert to speaking Catalan, which is the dialect of Valencia, where they live. As we were standing in line, my nephew asked his mother a question, and she answered in Catalan, discussing an item that he had picked out for his father back in Spain.

A woman standing in front of us in line turned briefly to look at us, then turned away. I thought nothing of it.

Until...

My sister asked me if I had any problems when I voted this past week, and I told her no, as I always either vote early or absentee, as I never know if my schedule would allow me to be home for voting day.

My nephew said that he was excited to get to vote for Barack Obama yet again, as he was very popular back in Spain, and this was the first time he did so on American soil. My sister said the same thing, she was so happy that she got to vote for someone that is making a difference in this country.

That made the woman standing in front of us whip her head around and ask, "What are you foreigners doing voting in our elections? Who gives people from Spain the right to vote in this country?"

I started to laugh. She glared at me. I asked my sister if she wanted to tell our new friend what the deal was, or should I?

My sister said to the woman, "Ma'am, no that it's any of your business, but I am an American citizen, and have been so longer than you've been alive. My son is also an American citizen, and as citizens living overseas we vote in every national election held in this country. And we vote Democratic every election, just as we vote the Socialist Party back home in Spain."

If looks were knives, we would have been sliced to ribbons.

It was a good thing her husband wasn't there with us, he was educated at Oxford and taught at Cambridge for a year or two, and speaks English with a notable British accent.

The poor woman would have blown a fuse.

110 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Wouldn't Have Believed Things Like This Do Happen...Until I Witnessed It Myself. (Original Post) Ikonoklast Nov 2012 OP
Beautiful! nt MrScorpio Nov 2012 #1
Excellent! A lot of Americans are so stupid that they think MineralMan Nov 2012 #2
Kathy teaches English as a private tutor in Spain. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #3
How offensive! It's Un-American to learn non-English languages. MineralMan Nov 2012 #7
How wonderful femrap Nov 2012 #21
Wow, that's so cool....archaic Greek?!? Toooo cool! BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #51
Pepe wrote his philosophy doctoral thesis in Koine Greek. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #58
Wow!!!! BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #62
I once saw Americans referred to as SheilaT Nov 2012 #26
It's unnecessary to learn other languages, or even English, TahitiNut Nov 2012 #81
"...they think no American can speak any other language than poor English." Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #89
My crazy RW cousin thinks that all billboards and vlyons Nov 2012 #103
Gees, wonder how that woman... dballance Nov 2012 #4
She should come to St. Paul, MN. MineralMan Nov 2012 #37
That's kinda cool the place is so diverse and you elected a Hmong immigrant dballance Nov 2012 #110
That woman must have been caught shoplifting at WalMart JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #5
+10 RC Nov 2012 #15
I love this Carolina Nov 2012 #6
Might as well talk about her because she probably thought you were anyway. alfredo Nov 2012 #54
or talk about her in English, as if she isn't standing right there eShirl Nov 2012 #67
it is kinda odd hfojvt Nov 2012 #8
Wait, what? Aristus Nov 2012 #9
Thank you, kind sir. You stated my views on this matter exactly. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #12
US citizenship could expire, in the same way that British citizenship does hfojvt Nov 2012 #43
British citizenship expires? Mariana Nov 2012 #53
see replies 17 amd 18 below hfojvt Nov 2012 #55
Or maybe you have no idea what you're talking about. nt. Mariana Nov 2012 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author hfojvt Nov 2012 #75
Immigration lawyer here The Hitman Nov 2012 #98
I'm kinda thinking the same thing... LanternWaste Nov 2012 #76
'Skin in the game'. Aristus Nov 2012 #64
Thanks Aristus! "Shielded from your vote".. as if! Cha Nov 2012 #65
Your post makes you sound like a jingoist lunatica Nov 2012 #11
Oh, you.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2012 #13
The US of A is the only country I know... mwooldri Nov 2012 #17
I am in the reverse situation...I am a Brit living in the US.. truebrit71 Nov 2012 #18
Skipped all your Civics classes, did you? MineralMan Nov 2012 #34
Apparently, you know little or nothing about US citizenship law. Surya Gayatri Nov 2012 #41
I could give half a shit about US citizenship law hfojvt Nov 2012 #48
"I don't need to know anything about the law to have an opinion on it." Surya Gayatri Nov 2012 #50
actually, I know what I said hfojvt Nov 2012 #52
...! Surya Gayatri Nov 2012 #56
what is a stereotypical liberal? datasuspect Nov 2012 #60
no, but thinking you do and that nobody else does - is a sign hfojvt Nov 2012 #69
You got a right to your opinion nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #72
do I have a right to my own cliches? hfojvt Nov 2012 #74
Read on people who ave lost national allegiance nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #78
Interesting.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2012 #96
actually I have done that a long time ago hfojvt Nov 2012 #108
"I don't need to know anything about the law to have an opinion on it." The Hitman Nov 2012 #101
yeah, welcome to DU hfojvt Nov 2012 #109
Scratches head nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #71
my mum lived in America over 30 years and voted in Brit elections Skittles Nov 2012 #80
deduction fail X 2 lunasun Nov 2012 #95
I find an extra measure of satisfaction in knowing that the woman was shopping in a store beac Nov 2012 #10
Precisely, beac! Wonder if she knew That! COSTCO IS A BLUE STORE~ nm Cha Nov 2012 #66
And, you have the last laugh. MsPithy Nov 2012 #14
Racism is an ugly thing. Being Cherokee when I darken up in the summer I often get, what are you? sarcasmo Nov 2012 #16
Where was there racism in this story? AlexSatan Nov 2012 #20
It heaven05 Nov 2012 #27
If you were on the receiving end of the lalalu Nov 2012 #30
I would be annoyed by their ignorance AlexSatan Nov 2012 #33
The ignorance usually comes from the same source. lalalu Nov 2012 #39
Except this post AlexSatan Nov 2012 #44
That's one rosy way of looking at it. lalalu Nov 2012 #47
You'd be annoyed by their ignorance for the first three dozen times it would happen... JHB Nov 2012 #40
If it were based on race, you are likely right. AlexSatan Nov 2012 #46
One can see in my brother-in-law his Moorish heritage, he could easily pass as an Algerian. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #32
Thanks AlexSatan Nov 2012 #35
come on .... uponit7771 Nov 2012 #94
You get the what are you or where are you from too? lalalu Nov 2012 #29
I've gotten that question, and I'm white as Caspar, closeupready Nov 2012 #57
Great Story...thx femrap Nov 2012 #19
Makes you... DirtyDawg Nov 2012 #22
Im sure when that woman got home MissNostalgia Nov 2012 #23
typical heaven05 Nov 2012 #24
To quote the late, great North Carolinian Republican Senator Jesse Helms, "If coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #25
I've been told that Jesse Helms never actually said that. AlbertCat Nov 2012 #45
Have you ever seen an electrical explosion? geomon666 Nov 2012 #28
That's a great story. Thanks! mnhtnbb Nov 2012 #31
I love it when some fascist pig gets it right in their face. santamargarita Nov 2012 #36
Perfect. Fuck the morons (well, not in the technical manner). HopeHoops Nov 2012 #38
I would have played her.... AlbertCat Nov 2012 #42
Voter Demographics 2012: Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2012 #49
It's vital to remember that as ugly as the woman's words were, burnsei sensei Nov 2012 #59
Nope. Not most white people. Obama got a large white vote & many non-racists voted for Romney. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2012 #83
K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #61
We would be a better country if we spoke another language. My Italian cousins southernyankeebelle Nov 2012 #63
I (heart) this story libodem Nov 2012 #68
Been on the receiving end nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #70
Interesting that someone in the line understood Catalan DFW Nov 2012 #77
Maybe she just wants her country back. (sarcasm) nt morningglory Nov 2012 #82
Don't think she understood Catalan, just knew it wasn't English bigbrother05 Nov 2012 #85
I don't think she knew what language it was at all, she only heard my nephew speak about Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #88
Grocery line steriotyping is amazing..... ReRe Nov 2012 #79
My friend, it's no good until you end the conversation with "So Fuck Off !" RagAss Nov 2012 #84
Stuff like this happens all the time. The Doctor. Nov 2012 #86
re:I Wouldn't Have Believed Things Like This Do Happen...Until I Witnessed It Myself. allan01 Nov 2012 #87
In which state does she vote? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #90
The expansive world of the Teabagger. AAO Nov 2012 #91
Something similar happened to a Spanish conversation class. knitter4democracy Nov 2012 #92
I am really getting sick of the tiny box Americans put themselves in and then get mad when no one Heather MC Nov 2012 #93
I love this! LittleGirl Nov 2012 #97
Nice but... The Hitman Nov 2012 #99
The citizens native to Valencia speak Catalan, but it is called Valencian. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #104
Kicky.....love the story. yourout Nov 2012 #100
Ignorance abounds in this country; thank God, intelligence is, mostly, its superior. juajen Nov 2012 #102
Proving once again, how uneducated some Americans are sinkingfeeling Nov 2012 #105
Simply Excellent! Plucketeer Nov 2012 #106
She asked for it! reformist2 Nov 2012 #107

MineralMan

(146,272 posts)
2. Excellent! A lot of Americans are so stupid that they think
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
Nov 2012

no American can speak any other language than poor English. Good comeback from your sister to that moronic woman.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
3. Kathy teaches English as a private tutor in Spain.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:34 AM
Nov 2012

She reads, writes and speaks English, Spanish, Catalan, French, Italian, and is learning German.

My nephew Alejandro speaks all of those along with Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and I think he also knows a little Polish for some reason.

He and his father converse in archaic Greek with each other.

MineralMan

(146,272 posts)
7. How offensive! It's Un-American to learn non-English languages.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:52 AM
Nov 2012

Only commies and fellow-travelers learn other languages.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
21. How wonderful
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:23 PM
Nov 2012

to speak all those languages.

Why we don't teach foreign languages in grade school is beyond me. That's when it is easy to learn them.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
51. Wow, that's so cool....archaic Greek?!? Toooo cool!
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
Nov 2012

I'm fluent in English ( ) and American Sign Language. Being very visual and kinesthetic, ASL was easy to learn.

Spoken languages not so much!

wish I could have seen the circuits blow!!!!

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
58. Pepe wrote his philosophy doctoral thesis in Koine Greek.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:37 PM
Nov 2012

The whole damn thing.

Three volumes, 800 or so odd pages.

He said it seemed fitting to write it in the same language used by so many of the greatest philosophers who ever pondered the questions of human existence.





He's nuts.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
62. Wow!!!!
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:15 PM
Nov 2012

oh yeah, I forgot. I speak Greek too, but I can't demonstrate it right now--- cuz I am speechless!




I consider myself pretty smart, but I think I'll just go dig some ditches now.........

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
26. I once saw Americans referred to as
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:31 PM
Nov 2012

"World class mono-linguists." That is sadly true of too many Americans.

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
81. It's unnecessary to learn other languages, or even English,
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:14 PM
Nov 2012

.. when you have nothing worth saying and there's nobody who wants to hear anyway.


 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
89. "...they think no American can speak any other language than poor English."
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:03 PM
Nov 2012

What's really sad is when you say another country could be patriotic and they give you a blank look and then scream, "What the hell do they have to be patriotic about? They live in a shithole!" (They all parrot the word "shithole" too,....SQUAWK!)

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
103. My crazy RW cousin thinks that all billboards and
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:31 AM
Nov 2012

outdoor signage should be in English. Indeed, he thinks it sould be against the law for billboards to be in Spanish. So much for free speech, eh?

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
4. Gees, wonder how that woman...
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:43 AM
Nov 2012

might have felt listening to my Cuban-American friends in Miami all speaking Spanish in the Costco line. All of them home-grown US citizens. Born and bred here.

MineralMan

(146,272 posts)
37. She should come to St. Paul, MN.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:48 PM
Nov 2012

Here, polling place signs are in English, Hmong, Somali, and Spanish. This year, in my precinct's polling place, a group of kids were available to do translations for Hmong speakers who needed assistance. They were all high school students who volunteered. Their grandparents were voting, and many of them have relatively poor English skills, even though they were naturalized years ago.

BTW, we elected a Hmong immigrant to be the State Senator for our district, which makes up most of St. Paul. He speaks fluent Hmong, as well as fluent English and handles Spanish pretty well, too. Foung Hawj (pronounced Fong Her) is a very nice man, and a real progressive to boot. I helped campaign for him. That woman's head would explode.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
110. That's kinda cool the place is so diverse and you elected a Hmong immigrant
Sat Nov 24, 2012, 06:12 PM
Nov 2012

I'm not surprised an immigrant handles multiple languages better than most of us born here. I think most of them have a totally different outlook than us "natives."

JohnnyRingo

(18,622 posts)
5. That woman must have been caught shoplifting at WalMart
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:44 AM
Nov 2012

There has to be a reason why she wasn't at one. Should have asked.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
6. I love this
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:45 AM
Nov 2012

After "schooling" the rude woman, your sister and nephew should have started talking about her in Spanish or the Catalan dialect (?).

I just love it. People like her are rude (she butt in your conversation!), ignorant (no knowledge of Americans abroad, probably a birther too since Hawaii is foreign!) and mean (her tone).

They deserve in-your-face-comeuppance. It was almost like: "Proceed, Governor!"

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
8. it is kinda odd
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:02 PM
Nov 2012

that she has lived in Spain, for what, 30 years, but is still an American citizen. I mean I was a Wisconsinite for about ten years, from 1987-1988 and 1990-1999, but I don't still get to vote in Wisconsin, even though I owned property there until 2009. She is somewhat shielded from the consequences of her vote, living in Spain.

Aristus

(66,303 posts)
9. Wait, what?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:10 PM
Nov 2012

Your post doesn't make any sense. If you don't live in Wisconsin, you don't get to vote there. You register to vote wherever it is that you live; states don't offer citizenship. Citizenship is at the Federal level.

And U.S. citizenship doesn't expire, like milk left out on the counter. If you don't renounce your citizenship, or have it revoked through treasonous acts, then you possess it for life. I don't care how long she lives in Spain; if she is a U.S. citizen, she gets to vote in U.S. elections.

And no American is "shielded" from the consequences of their vote. Wherever in the world we live, we want to know that our country is in steady hands.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
12. Thank you, kind sir. You stated my views on this matter exactly.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:41 PM
Nov 2012

I'd be willing to bet that you personally cast a few votes yourself, from foreign shores, and are acquainted with a few others who have also done so.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
43. US citizenship could expire, in the same way that British citizenship does
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:09 PM
Nov 2012

"Wherever in the world we live, we want to know that our country is in steady hands."

Words from how many Bush voters?

And when Bush wrecks the country, are they themselves forced to live in the rubble?

Nope, they are like people living across town who get to vote to decide if my house gets burned down or gets rebuilt. They don't have the same skin in the game as people who are actually living in the house.

Mariana

(14,854 posts)
53. British citizenship expires?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:57 PM
Nov 2012

Under what circumstances does someone's British citizenship expire? Please explain to us exactly how that works.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
55. see replies 17 amd 18 below
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:06 PM
Nov 2012

I am taking their word for it.

Although I may have mis-stated it. Maybe it is just voting rights that expire and not citizenship.

Response to Mariana (Reply #73)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
76. I'm kinda thinking the same thing...
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:32 PM
Nov 2012

I'm thinking the same thing... especially when we see an opinion qualified with "that's odd", but there's nothing really odd about it all.

Aristus

(66,303 posts)
64. 'Skin in the game'.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:25 PM
Nov 2012

If an American citizen living overseas gets caught in the middle of some international upheaval, they can seek help and protection at a U.S. Embassy or consulate. They can expect that American civil servants will do whatever they can to ensure the safety of a citizen, regardless of circumstance.

This remains true even if that citizen never steps on U.S. soil.

All citizens have skin in the game, wherever they may live...

Cha

(296,978 posts)
65. Thanks Aristus! "Shielded from your vote".. as if!
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:31 PM
Nov 2012

We, in the 21st Century, are now Planetary, baby!

mwooldri

(10,302 posts)
17. The US of A is the only country I know...
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:13 PM
Nov 2012

... where citizens have to file tax returns, even if they've never been in the USA. They do have a vested interest... so they get the vote. AFAIK Americans overseas vote based on where they were last registered. If that's Wisconsin, so be it.

However a British Citizen overseas owes the Crown no taxes on income overseas when permanently resident elsewhere. The right to vote for overseas British citizens extends for only 15 years, and is only for Parliamentary and European elections only.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
18. I am in the reverse situation...I am a Brit living in the US..
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:15 PM
Nov 2012

...in fact I've lived in the States almost twice as long as I lived in the UK I choose not to get American citizenship but the British Government dis-enfranchised me because of the length of time I've been away...kinda sucks... Citizen of a country I no longer live in and can't vote, whilst living in a country I love and can't vote here either!!

I should just got naturalized but the fee is outrageous ($1000)...

MineralMan

(146,272 posts)
34. Skipped all your Civics classes, did you?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
Nov 2012

Truly, how can you have such a strange idea about US citizenship and voting rights? I do not understand.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
41. Apparently, you know little or nothing about US citizenship law.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:05 PM
Nov 2012

Unless an American citizen expressly renounces his/her citizenship or commits treasonous acts against the US, said citizenship can never be arbitrarily revoked. Permanent overseas residency does not constitute such a renunciation.

Holding dual nationality (because of parentage, marriage, naturalization, etc.) does not constitute even a tacit renunciation of said citizenship. Only serving in the military of a foreign entity could possibly entail the revocation of American citizenship.

Nowadays, property ownership has nothing to do with retaining one's citizenship or one's right to vote, as opposed to the early decades of the nation.

That said, it is undeniably much easier and faster for wealthy and landed foreigners to accede to US citizenship than for dirt-poor Latinos.

In order to vote legally in US federal elections, ex-patriot Americans need only contact the nearest American consulate in the country where they reside.

There, they will be provided with documentation and information on legally registering and voting by mail in the state of their last US residency or as a "citizen-at-large" in no particular state.

Several million US ex-patriots vote in US federal elections through this simple and expeditious process.

I am one of them.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
48. I could give half a shit about US citizenship law
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:17 PM
Nov 2012

My comment was not about what the law DOES say, but more about what the law SHOULD say.

I don't need to know anything about the law to have an opinion on it.

I'm sorry you could not understand that.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
50. "I don't need to know anything about the law to have an opinion on it."
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
Nov 2012

That statement is worthy of one of Mitt's most notorious pronouncements:

"I don't know what I said, but whatever I said, I stand by it!"




hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
52. actually, I know what I said
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:53 PM
Nov 2012

but clearly you are not worth talking to.

Sort of a sterotypical liberal though.

 

datasuspect

(26,591 posts)
60. what is a stereotypical liberal?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:07 PM
Nov 2012

is knowing what in the fuck you are talking about a tell tale sign of being a stereotypical liberal?

HOLEE SHIT!

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
69. no, but thinking you do and that nobody else does - is a sign
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:51 PM
Nov 2012

take for example, something else that I know almost nothing about - NASCAR racing. Yet because it is on the local news I know something about what happened yesterday. One racer deliberately crashed into another, and then after than there were various brawls between the racers and pit crews and such.

Now I am of the opinion that a racer should face an extra penalty for deliberately causing a crash. I don't believe I really need to know the rules of NASCAR in order to have that opinion. It is also nothing even close to a rebuttal of my opinon if somebody "argues" with me by saying

"you apparently do not know anything about the rules of NASCAR" and proceeds to explain that under the rules of NASCAR it is perfectly legal to cause a crash, etc., etc., etc.

You see - what the rule actually says is kinda irrelevant in a discussion of "what the rule SHOULD say".

And unfortunately, what seems to be stereotypically liberal is feeling the need to insult people who disagree with you. And also thinking that this represents either a rational argument or a civil discussion.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
74. do I have a right to my own cliches?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
Nov 2012

Where is anything contra-factual mentioned in post 8?

"that she has lived in Spain, for what, 30 years, but is still an American citizen. I mean I was a Wisconsinite for about ten years, from 1987-1988 and 1990-1999, but I don't still get to vote in Wisconsin, even though I owned property there until 2009. She is somewhat shielded from the consequences of her vote, living in Spain."

1. Opinion - when you establish permanent residency in another country, you SHOULD lose your citizenship
2. factual example - when you move from a state, you can no longer vote there - even if you still own property there.
3. opinion - somebody who lives in a house is impacted much more by votes to either fix it or destroy it. People in Spain can vote for evil idiots like Sam Brownback and not have to live under his idiotic and evil rule.

Other people have different opinions. Some are conservative perhaps, and want things to stay the same as they currently are. But it does not refudiate my opinion to go on and on about what the law DOES say.

Nor is an argument won, on substance, by being condescending and insulting and mocking.

Not that I, myself, always put a lot of effort into a rebuttal argument. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1797795

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
78. Read on people who ave lost national allegiance
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:41 PM
Nov 2012

Those are actually well...silly facts

Look my aunt grew up in Mexico City, she was born in New York City. She paid taxes for several decades, in two countries mind you. She even paid into two social security systems...she retired in the US...by your logic she should have not...it is just silly thinking.

You got a right to your opinion, but in this case, truly not your own facts.

The Hitman

(562 posts)
101. "I don't need to know anything about the law to have an opinion on it."
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:58 AM
Nov 2012

May I suggest www.freerepublic.com? I am sure you will find similar-minded intellectuals there.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
109. yeah, welcome to DU
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:53 PM
Nov 2012

intellectuals?

See if you can understand logic, Mr. High and mighty intellectual.

X happens
Hfojvt states that probably X should not be allowed to happen
Somebody else replies that X is the law.

Uhn, whether X is the law or not is pretty much irrelevant in the argument about whether X is a good thing or a bad thing.

Unless you follow some sort of legalistic "logic" where whatever is the Law MUST be good, because, after all, it IS the law.

In this case, perhaps, hfojvt thinks it is a dumb law.

Now, I know that hfojvt's opinion is often heresy among this group but perhaps you can see how having an opinion about the goodness, or value of something is independent of what the law actually says.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
71. Scratches head
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:54 PM
Nov 2012

States don't grant citizenship. Oh and American citizenship has to be actively given up.

Skittles

(153,137 posts)
80. my mum lived in America over 30 years and voted in Brit elections
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:13 PM
Nov 2012

because she always remained a British citizen

beac

(9,992 posts)
10. I find an extra measure of satisfaction in knowing that the woman was shopping in a store
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:14 PM
Nov 2012

whose CEO supports Obama!

Some part of her money will likely end up going to elect Democrats in 2014 and 2016.

MsPithy

(809 posts)
14. And, you have the last laugh.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:57 PM
Nov 2012

This woman was spending her money at Costco, a notoriously progressively run company. HA!

sarcasmo

(23,968 posts)
16. Racism is an ugly thing. Being Cherokee when I darken up in the summer I often get, what are you?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:00 PM
Nov 2012

It takes a bit of getting used to, sometimes I say Alien, sometimes I just laugh.

 

AlexSatan

(535 posts)
20. Where was there racism in this story?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:20 PM
Nov 2012

I have no idea what the skin of any of these folks looks like.

It sounds to me that the issue was one of nationality, not race.

If you are just randomly injecting race into the thread (and that was your intent), I apologize.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
27. It
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:33 PM
Nov 2012

is NOT a stretch to presume this ignorant, ugly american was part of the 'new' minority. Thank you very much.SATAN???? whatever.

 

AlexSatan

(535 posts)
33. I would be annoyed by their ignorance
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
Nov 2012

But unless there was a racial factor (i.e. my skin was dark and hers wasn't), I wouldn't attribute it to race.

The woman clearly was listening to their discussion. I got nothing from the story that said the folks from Spain had dark skin.

 

lalalu

(1,663 posts)
39. The ignorance usually comes from the same source.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:59 PM
Nov 2012

If you look at racist organizations like the KKK they tend to go after people based on skin color, religion and "foreigners". Birds of an ignorant mentality tend to flock together.

As I stated in another post I have also received similar comments from people who were not white. There is an ignorant assumption that people who don't look a certain way must have just swam to America recently.

 

AlexSatan

(535 posts)
44. Except this post
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:12 PM
Nov 2012

doesn't have to do with looks.

Like I said, if you want to discuss racism, that is perfectly fine. But, as the OP pointed out, that was not the situation here.

JHB

(37,157 posts)
40. You'd be annoyed by their ignorance for the first three dozen times it would happen...
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:59 PM
Nov 2012

After that, I suspect you might be a little less patient with the ignorant ones. And you might pick up on a common thread which might seem small individually, but starts getting much more clear as the data points build up.

 

AlexSatan

(535 posts)
46. If it were based on race, you are likely right.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:13 PM
Nov 2012

As the OP pointed out though, her sister is European white.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
32. One can see in my brother-in-law his Moorish heritage, he could easily pass as an Algerian.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
Nov 2012

And my nephew takes after his father, dark wavy hair, dark eyes, hawk nose, and skin tone that looks like a nice tan.

My sister looks like a typical European Caucasian.

 

AlexSatan

(535 posts)
35. Thanks
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:46 PM
Nov 2012

People do stupid, ignorant things all of the time without it always being a racial issue.

Of course there ARE racial issues, but not all stupid things others say are based on race.

 

lalalu

(1,663 posts)
29. You get the what are you or where are you from too?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:33 PM
Nov 2012

In the last few years my now adult son has complained about this too. Having a father who is black and Italian has really thrown them for a loop.

I have to say it is not just white people I get this from. Growing up black in a black community this was never an issue. Black people are use to all shades and features even in the same family. But as I got older I got that from various people outside the community. It seems there is some stereotype of what black people look like and an ignorance of our diversity.

It was one reason I agreed to participate in a genetic study. Maybe it is the Native ancestry that elicits that response. I just know it is weird.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
57. I've gotten that question, and I'm white as Caspar,
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 03:12 PM
Nov 2012

the friendly ghost, lol. My response, depending on my mood, is 'vampire' or 'tired/bored', that sort of thing.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
19. Great Story...thx
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:16 PM
Nov 2012

You know something...when someone gives me some crap. I respond to them in a British accent and I'm telling you, it stops them in their tracks. Then I say a few words in French as if to dismiss them and the crap stops.

 

DirtyDawg

(802 posts)
22. Makes you...
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:27 PM
Nov 2012

...wonder what the woman would have done or said if you had informed her that Costco was a company whose CEO and founder is an Obama supporter, and that she probably should be shopping at Sam's Club if she was going to be such a bigot?

MissNostalgia

(159 posts)
23. Im sure when that woman got home
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:28 PM
Nov 2012

She told of the evil 'foreigners' voter fraud conspiracy, in spite of the eloquent explanation she was given.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
24. typical
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:29 PM
Nov 2012

ugly, ignorant american. Will we never be rid of this stupidity in the human race? I fear not unless we have a paradigm shift of massive proportions.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
25. To quote the late, great North Carolinian Republican Senator Jesse Helms, "If
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:30 PM
Nov 2012

English was good enough for Jesus, it ought to be good enough for the rest of us."



OK, I've been told that Jesse Helms never actually said that. But he may as well have

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
45. I've been told that Jesse Helms never actually said that.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:12 PM
Nov 2012

He didn't.

It was a Texas Governor in the 1920's.


Jesse Helms was not as bad as he became toward the end. He even voted for the NC School of the Arts... the "tippy-toe school".... the 1st state supported school for performing arts.... in the 1960's. NC used to be known as "the state of the arts". Now we are trying to be Mississippi!

geomon666

(7,512 posts)
28. Have you ever seen an electrical explosion?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 01:33 PM
Nov 2012

That's what happens when you expose these people to reality away from the perceptions of right wing media. They are just left shattered. It's amazing to see.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
42. I would have played her....
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:06 PM
Nov 2012

Spoken in broken English about the cartel of secret Socialists from all over the world who, with the help of a secret homegrown network, cast votes in US elections even though they are foreigners.

She'd have something to fume about for MONTHS.... all an untrue fantasy....kinda like what Fox News gives her. It woulda made the RW blogs and onto Fox News eventually.... maybe even become something for Orly Taitz could get her war on!

burnsei sensei

(1,820 posts)
59. It's vital to remember that as ugly as the woman's words were,
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:01 PM
Nov 2012

they represent the thought and reasoning ability of most white people in this country.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,970 posts)
83. Nope. Not most white people. Obama got a large white vote & many non-racists voted for Romney.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 06:56 PM
Nov 2012

A vote for Romney does not make a person a racist.

There is just too much demonizing going on of Romney voters and Republicans in general. It is as bad as the right wing (not center-right) calling Obama a Socialist or a Communist or a Kenyan or a Muslim, etc. That demonization does the country no good.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
63. We would be a better country if we spoke another language. My Italian cousins
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 04:18 PM
Nov 2012

told me when they were kids that had to take either English or French. It was mandatory. To bad we don't have that opportunity here.

DFW

(54,324 posts)
77. Interesting that someone in the line understood Catalan
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:40 PM
Nov 2012

I speak Catalan, having lived in Barcelona with Catalans for a while, and it's different enough from Spanish so as not to be immediately intelligible to someone who only speaks Castilian ("Spanish&quot . My Madrid friends who have no connection to Catalunya cannot follow conversations held only in Catalan without help.The right-wing woman must have either spent time in Catalunya herself, or else was rather well educated--rare enough with teabagger types.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
85. Don't think she understood Catalan, just knew it wasn't English
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:04 PM
Nov 2012

Then jumped to her own conclusions.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
88. I don't think she knew what language it was at all, she only heard my nephew speak about
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:11 PM
Nov 2012

previously voting from Spain.

That's when she put two and two together and got negative seven.

I agree, no one would mistake Valencian Catalan with Castilian having heard both being spoken.

I have a hard enough time keeping up with them with my high-school Spanish when they speak Castilian, I catch about every fifth word, and get blown into the weeds when they switch to Catalan; it is just so different.

Have you ever tried to learn Basque? That's one language I love to listen to, but I understand it's a nightmare to learn.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
79. Grocery line steriotyping is amazing.....
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:44 PM
Nov 2012
..... isn't it? It's a great idea for a book or a sociology/psychology class term paper. My mother-in-law was one of these types of persons (rest her soul). Your sister did just fine defending herself and yes, thank God her hubby wasn't there.
 

The Doctor.

(17,266 posts)
86. Stuff like this happens all the time.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:09 PM
Nov 2012

There's a contingent on DU that can't believe it and claim it's all fiction, sadly revealing that they haven't the courage to engage people in public.

allan01

(1,950 posts)
87. re:I Wouldn't Have Believed Things Like This Do Happen...Until I Witnessed It Myself.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 07:11 PM
Nov 2012

who got sliced to ribbions . not your daughter at least but the intended victom
ps: for most of us , we are a ignorant country, present company excepted though
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
90. In which state does she vote?
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:13 PM
Nov 2012

I get that as a citizen she and her son are entitled to everything that citizenship implies... but voting is administered by the state. Does an expat vote for school levies in a town in which (s)he hasn't lived for 30 years?

Although I've never lived in Canada, I am a Canadian citizen by birth (my mom was a Canadian citizen). Nevertheless, I would not expect to be able to vote for "their" prime minister without demonstrating residency.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
92. Something similar happened to a Spanish conversation class.
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:30 PM
Nov 2012

When I was in college, another Spanish told me of the time his Spanish conversation class went on a field trip to the store to practice speaking to each other in that setting. They weren't to use any English at all, and it was all going well until he and his partner overheard a couple nearby start ranting and raving about all those horrible Mexicans coming and taking their jobs and worse. He said that, when it got into seriously racist territory, he quietly walked over, explained that they were from the local college's Spanish department and were native English speakers (and so understood every word they said), and then walked away without even looking back.

I've heard stuff said around people speaking Spanish at the grocery store, and since I'm a Spanish teacher, I usually hear the other side of the conversation, too, and people know when others are ripping on them. We really need to do everything we can to deal with this issue.

 

Heather MC

(8,084 posts)
93. I am really getting sick of the tiny box Americans put themselves in and then get mad when no one
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:45 PM
Nov 2012

else fits in that box

LittleGirl

(8,282 posts)
97. I love this!
Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:30 PM
Nov 2012

My husband (newly sworn-in US/Brit) voted in his first election this past week. He was thrilled to vote for Obama.

edit to clarify - sigh

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
104. The citizens native to Valencia speak Catalan, but it is called Valencian.
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:38 AM
Nov 2012

Catalan is basically the same regional language, with minor more localized differences, inflection, emphasis, common slang usages, for instance.

My understanding is it can compare to the regional English dialects spoken in this country, with mostly geographical differences.




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