I'm getting sick and tired of business packing everything in plastic

[Stargazer99]

some things can be sold without plastic coverings...in years before plastic came on the scene things were sold without plastic wrappings. As usual we must let business ruin the enviroment, harm people for profit and make the common man pay for destruction of the eviroment and the physical damage done to human beings not to mention wildlife....when are we going to smarten up...before we kill all life on this planet for the sake of our national god, profit.

[W_HAMILTON]

1. What particular item pushed you over the edge?

[Stargazer99]

7. The fact that I am old ito remember things being sold without plastic wrapped around

everything tells me there is no excuse to flood the planet with material killing our fish, wildlife, etc for the sake of profit. Like one Indian chief once said " when the last of the planet life dies man will finally realize he cannot buy it back". It is time to put some control on business, our national god.

[Mossfern]

23. I share your thoughts on this

Born in 1948, very little was packed in plastic - as a matter of fact I can't think of anything. Things came in cardboard with waxed paper liners or glass or metal. Why do people need hand wash and body wash in plastic containers? Whatever happened to bar soap?
Laundry detergent was powder and came in cardboard boxes.

When my children were young (there were four of them) and wanted something when we were grocery shopping, the first requirement was that it not be in plastic packaging.

I'm with you all the way Stargazer99!

[llmart]

25. I'm with you also.

Born in 1949 and very little was wrapped in plastic when I was growing up. My biggest pet peeve is with today's packaging. First of all, I'm older with small hands and some arthritis and there are packages that I'm taking my life into my hands if I try to pry them open, especially that really tough, heavy duty plastic. You can't even avoid some of it.

[japple]

30. You, me and all the rest of us born in the last century. I remember

the days when NOTHING was wrapped in plastic. Everything was packed in cardboard or paper. Everything from marbles to dental floss. Now we're on the edge of ruining our last remaining forests for toilet paper.

[llmart]

32. +1

I don't buy much of anything because of environmental concerns. I've never been one to just buy or shop because an ad tells me I need something. I have a mind of my own and I don't need advertising to tell me I "just can't live without this latest doodad". I do have to buy food of course, but I always try to buy produce and staples that isn't packaged in plastic. I rarely take a plastic bag either. If I go to a Target or that type of store and I only need a couple of items I never put them in a plastic bag. Home Depot either. I get my receipt and walk out the door carrying my few items in my hand. I do get a funny look occasionally because as a woman, aren't I supposed to be carrying a humongous purse? Nope. Key fob in one pocket and card that I'm paying with in another.

I needed a green pepper or two yesterday and I refused to buy the ones that are put on a styrofoam tray and then wrapped in plastic. you just know that adds cost to the peppers. Fortunately there's a specialty store a mile from my house where none of the produce is wrapped. Do you ever remember celery coming in a plastic bag? I'm sure my parents would be flabbergasted to see any of this if they were still alive.

[Beartracks]

40. "As a woman: Key fob in one pocket and card... in another."

Wait -- As a woman, you have POCKETS??



===========

[llmart]

43. Ha!

Yes, yes I do have pockets, most of the time. My jackets or coats usually have pockets. Actually, I read an article where women are starting to demand more clothing have pockets.

[japple]

61. Pockets are essential for me. And if the women's clothing won't provide

that, I buy from the men's dept. I found out long ago that clothing manufacturers wouldn't give me what I need.

[wnylib]

44. Even meat was not wrapped in plastic.

It came in brown paper wrapping. I think the brown paper was treated with something on the outer side to make it less permeable. It looked and felt smoother than most paper.

Milk came in glass bottles. Grocery bags were always paper. Shopping bags for other stores were always paper, with corded paper handles.

But, while paper is biodegradable compared to plastic, it does use up a lot of trees. OTOH, petroleum is used in the manufacture of plastic. There is a trade off for everything, but the trade off for plastic is too steep and damaging.

[llmart]

56. I agree with your last sentence.

At least paper can be recycled and so much of the paper we have now is actually recycled paper. I saw a clip the other day about some guys rescuing a seal who had gotten a plastic something or other wrapped around its neck and he was going to suffocate as he flailed around trying to get it off. It was so sad to see. Humans can and should do better. I realize my efforts are just a drop in the bucket, but my conscience won't allow me to contribute to trashing the environment.

[Talitha]

75. I'm 70 and remember the 'butcher paper' feeling slick.

Maybe it was impregnated with a bit of oil?

Our Chicago neighborhood Butcher shop had a huge roll of it on the counter, right next to a giant spool of cotton twine used to tie the packages. There was sawdust on the floor and we kids used to draw finger pictures in it while Mom waited in line.

Yep, there was lots of glass back then. The milk you already mentioned, along with orange juice. And I remember glass bottles of Breck shampoo and cream rinse.

Potato chips were in waxed bags instead of whatever they use nowadays. The waxed paper ripped nicely - I remember chips flying all over the room the first time my brother tried to 'rip' one of the new bags open.

[JHB]

82. Butcher paper is still around, some for the same uses as always, some less noticable

This article was unexpectedly interesting:

https://www.oren-intl.com/blog/your-ultimate-guide-to-butcher-paper-industry-uses

[Talitha]

83. Thanks!!

[Jack the Greater]

48. Your comment that we are on the edge of ruining our last remaining forests for toilet paper made me

curious, so I checked it out, and there is evidence that this is true:

We’re Destroying Virgin Forests For Toilet Paper

[japple]

62. Yep, the Canadian forests are probably the last ones in North America

to be flushed down the toilet. If the US would just wake up and start figuring out how to use the bidet, we might save a forest or two, but then the folks downstream who need water for irrigation would run short of drinking water. You'd think that with all these brilliant scientists we have in our universities we could figure out how to better manage our resources. But then we have idiots like the GOP congresspeople/senate and in state governments selling everything to the highest bidder.

[GoodRaisin]

63. I agree, and some of this plastic crap is downright dangerous to open.

It can be incredibly frustrating to get into and if not very careful you can cut yourself badly. Packaging in general has gotten so hard to open I need everything from scissors to box cutters to screwdrivers to pliers to vice grips, and even channel locks in order to break into some of this packaging.

[roamer65]

71. I remember getting bologna and other meats in a paper wrap.

Soft drinks in metal cans and glass. Easily recycled.

God, I am showing my age.

[Scrivener7]

12. To come at it from another direction, what ISN'T packed in plastic?

[forgotmylogin]

49. Amazon (yes I know) has made some attempts for recyclable and "frustration free" packaging.

I ordered batteries from them which are usually in the impossible plastic holders (meant to deter theft in retail stores I'd suppose) and they were shrink-wrapped in light plastic to hold them together and packaged in a flat cardboard box.

A lot is sent in the plastic mailing bags, but I've also gotten sent stuff in the brown-paper padded envelopes which can go to paper recycling.

I do get frustrated when they seem to send me a tiny thing in a much larger box than necessary with those balloon padding strips. I do retain for use or recycle any cardboard boxes they send me.

[Scrivener7]

54. So, as I said, pretty much everything in plastic.

[MichaelSoE]

79. I have a box of Quaker oats (old fashioned not the quick) and it's in that familiar tube box

Unfortunately it has a plastic lid. Also Chock Full of Nuts coffee has a steel can but a plastic lid to reseal after opening.

The thing that got to me years ago was seeing coconuts in the produce department wrapped in plastic. WTF

[Retrograde]

18. Trader Joe's granola

used to come in cardboard boxes - which in my city can go in the compost recycle bin. So did powdered milk. Both are now only available in plastic bags, which have to go in the landfill bin.

At least the shops I patronize don't wrap their produce individually in plastic.

[AllyCat]

33. The stupid plastic liners inside every box of cereal, crackers, and cookies

Used to be easy to open, resealable waxed paper. Now it’s impossible to open plastic that rips down the middle, spilling product everywhere and can’t be resealed without a clip so everything goes stale in a day.

Everything wrapped in plastic.

[IL Dem]

76. I hate those plastic bags for cereal!

I remember when Grape Nuts came in just the box, no bag at all. Now I have to fight with that stupid bag.

[appalachiablue]

2. K/R Enuff! plastic is devouring the world.

[hlthe2b]

3. I remember my grandmother ran a small dress shop in a tiny farm town and wrapped

everything in plain brown paper tied neatly with string. I wondered when she passed why she had all these ceramic string dispensers--some shaped like cute animals. But, that is why. Very environmentally friendly...

Some of the old "ways" need to make a revival.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

6. That won't work in a shipping container from China

[Stargazer99]

9. Then maybe it is time we produce in the US and stop pushing the profit value only

[Ocelot II]

4. Some plastic packaging can't be opened except with a Sawz-All.

You buy some small, ordinary thing and it's sealed in a clear plastic shell that's damn near impossible to open. Why?? Not only is it wasteful, it's a gigantic PITA for the consumer.

[Diamond_Dog]

11. My thoughts exactly, Ocelot.

[dalton99a]

19. +1

Eric Kent made it through two tours of duty in Iraq and one in Afghanistan with hardly a scratch.

Yet a Marine who took on terrorists and insurgents abroad turned out to be no match in one of the USA’s most common domestic smackdowns: man vs. product package.

Kent, 23, raced to a Pittsburgh hospital this summer after slicing open his left thumb with a military-grade KA-Bar knife trying to hack open a printer cable from Geek Squad, a division of Best Buy.

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) estimated that in 2006, injuries from plastic packaging resulted in approximately 6,000 emergency-room visits. Because clamshells are impossible to open with bare hands, attempts to open them with knives, box cutters, razor blades and scissors have sometimes led to amputated fingertips, severed tendons and injured eyes. As Randall Culp, a surgeon at the Philadelphia Hand Center at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, explained, “I think it’s a real health issue.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/03/04/clamshell-packaging-is-an-often-dangerous-lesson-in-bad-design.html

[MontanaMama]

34. This this THIS!

I stand in the store aisle and think “will I be able to open this when I get it home?” Ridiculousness with all the stupid packaging.

[KPN]

38. Lol. I use my sheet metal shears! And their the old fashioned

Straight any heavy duty scissors kind to boot.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. THAT is DUzy worthy!

(I have the "battle scars" to show for it too )

[Buns_of_Fire]

46. I finally ordered a knive to open the damned plastic shells.

Unfortunately, it came packaged in... a plastic shell.

[MyOwnPeace]

70. LOL!!!!! Of COURSE it did!!!!!!

[forgotmylogin]

52. Usually that's for retail theft prevention.

To make small items larger and less pocketable, and makes it difficult to steal one battery from a package in the store. These packages often have alarm sensors for security gates embedded inside.

I know it doesn't help matters, but I'm sure that's the main reason for difficult packaging.

I remember back in the day cassette tapes and CDs in the music store were locked inside a big hard plastic "ladder" that was about 2 foot long to prevent people from pocketing them. I worked in a bookstore and unlocked hundreds of CDs from theft cases that only would open with a magnetic unlocking mechanism attached to the counter...or a hammer and lots of work.

[TheRealNorth]

5. Apparently, plastic is still cheap

Despite the fact the oil companies keep jacking up the gasoline prices, I usually can get 24 20 Oz plastic bottle of Coke for around the same price of 24 12 Oz cans.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. It Is Quite Cheap

The gas prices don't mean much with regard to plastics.
The precursor (monomers) are made from very low molecular weight homologues from the cracking process of petroleum.
For all practical purposes it's a waste product.
Refinery costing is based on gasoline, kerosene, diesel, heavies, bunker oil. "Anes" are still a small net positive margin fraction. Those all carry 100% of the burden
Asphalt, sulfur, & gaseous lights are not costed. They carry no book value, so anything the refineries get is gravy.
When petroleum prices are high, the margins have a floor.. X% of higher. If the crude costs more, X+% of a higher number is more money.
This means those "zero value" pieces mean even less. Makes plastics even cheaper.

[Hekate]

14. Thank you for the rational and informative post, Prof

I didn’t know

[former9thward]

8. Depending on the product plastic serves two purposes.

Security and Safety.

Security: Products wrapped in plastics are more difficult to shoplift. You can't take a small item and slip it into your clothing if its in a cardboard backing wrapped in plastic.

Safety: Companies started wrapping drug bottles and some food items in plastic after the Tylenol killer struck in the Chicago area in 1982 and poisoned seven people. (That killer has never been caught.)

[ProfessorGAC]

13. There Was A Show About That Last Night

History Channel series called "History's Greatest Mysteries".
The episode on the Tylenol murders was on at (I think) 6pm yesterday.
After watching it again, I'll say "unsolved" doesn't do the case justice. They have absolutely no idea where to look.
Really sad. Three twenty-somethings from the same family were among the victims. 2 of them took the pills to get rid of stress headaches after they experienced their sister dying earlier that day.
They all took capsules from the same bottle. What an awful day for that family.

[Hekate]

15. Good reminder. My aunt cursed the Tylenol killer as she tried to open child-proof pill bottles ...

…with her poor hands crippled from Rheumatoid Arthritis.

[demigoddess]

16. I agree with you. Sometimes things are wrapped in 3 levels of plastic, not just one. Too much.

we used to have soda pop in glass bottles that you paid a 5 cent deposit on and when you returned the bottles you got your deposit back.

[MyOwnPeace]

24. But it came with a cost!

In grade school I took my wagon through the neighborhoods to 'offer' to return their empty bottles - a way to earn money and save the neighbors (yeah, I'd go 2-3-4 blocks from where I lived!) the grief of returning the bottles.
The cost?
Having Mr. Quigley glaring over the counter at you asking: "Did you BUY those here?"
I quivered as I answered: "Well, my Mom and Dad did - I'm just helping by returning them."

Mr. Quigley would have been a fantastic Common Pleas judge..............

[wnylib]

47. There is still a depodit on empty plastic bottles and cans of soda.

At least in NY there is, along with redeemable deposits on plastic bottles of water and of some other liquids.

[pandr32]

17. Hell yes!

We no longer recycle plastic where we live.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. You'd have to live off the land to escape plastic

grow your own, shoot your own, skin your own.

[pwb]

21. I was just thinking salt and sugar packaging have always been

kind to earth.

[hippywife]

22. I get so frustrated about this with regard to groceries.

It's going to be tough to get the food industry to stop using so much plastic, but there are some very obvious places to start. Egg packaging, for instance. No one seems to use the old pressed paper cartons much anymore. Most of them are in styrofoam (ugh!) and others in clear plastic, one brand I bought is a three part plastic carton. Can't recycle either of those, so we need to go back to the pressed paper cartons.

[MyOwnPeace]

26. "Pressed paper" here, but..........

I'm totally confused regarding what to do with my "AMAZON" 'envelopes' - plastic with bubbles and labels all over them.....

[hippywife]

28. Easier for me...

since I stopped buying anything at all from Amazon over a dozen years ago after reading this:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor/

I also keep any type of online ordering to a minimum. Right now, I'm trying to locate grapefruit spoons. No one here carries them, not even the home stores. I can order them online and have them shipped, but when we're out running errands, I just check thrift shops.

[WestMichRad]

65. Try this site for grapefruit spoons

https://www.etsy.com/market/grapefruit_spoons_serrated

Or keep your eyes open for them at flea markets...

[hippywife]

73. As I mentioned above...

I can easily find them online, but don't want to order them for shipping.

[blueinredohio]

31. The pressed paper egg cartons were good for starting seeds.

[Duppers]

27. Most people don't give a F.

That's what is wrong.

Ever try to talk with friends about this? They're mainly annoyed & think you're being a fruitcake. I do it anyway.

We must get folks behind the environmental movement.

[MyOwnPeace]

68. Sadly, you are SO right!

Need to say - NOT sad that that is your position, but, instead, there are SO MANY that just don't give a (fill-in the appropriate word of your choice!).

We are SO FAR BEHIND what needs to be done - certainly a part of the entire 'global warming' issue.........

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Often plastic is used to avoid shop damage, e.g. brain dead customers opening cardboard boxes

... scrambling the contents and jamming it back in, breaking bits or the packaging in the process.

But yeah, much too much single use plastic. It's great when you end up with a nice little tub or box or sealing bag, etc., but the blown hard plastic that has to be cut to be opened is single use.


The real issue is: death to single use packaging.

Not far behind and perhaps in front is: make products repairable and upgradable so that less gets discarded and less is bought and less packaging is consumed.

But Big Biz loves use-toss-buy-more.

[llmart]

35. Those same brain dead customers...

are the ones who wouldn't think of repairing something. They like throwing it away and buying a new one at Walmart or online at Amazon. During the pandemic I couldn't help but think about how so many people turned to shopping for stuff on Amazon who rarely or never did that before, and I cringed at the amount of packaging waste that would create.

[Rhiannon12866]

37. Yes! I've said that so often! There is nothing that's not wrapped in plastic!

Fruits and vegetables, meat products, even paper products - and any kind of toys. New York State may have stopped offering plastic bags in stores, but everything you buy is STILL wrapped in plastic!

[wnylib]

53. There is a convenience store in my neighborhood that still uses

plastic bags. I don't know how they get around the law. When I shop there, I carry my own cloth bag or I reuse a plastic bag that I got from them before.

[Rhiannon12866]

57. I've also seen them, too.

Though during the pandemic, I chose just one grocery store and bought a couple of their reusable bags which I use everywhere - and I've noticed others doing that, too. And when they eliminated plastic bags here in New York, the pet supply store where I'm a regular gave me a number of their especially heavy plastic bags so I bring them with me when I go there as well. But if I buy vegetables or even baked goods, they come in plastic bags or boxes.

[wnylib]

64. Most grocery stores have plastic bags for

bagging fresh produce - peppers, carrots, celery, even ginger root and garlic. I don't know if you have Wegman's in your area but they are all over western NY and in other states in the region. Their quality is good and prices are reasonable for every day items, although they do carry expensive higher end foods.

In their produce department, customers are expected to bag and weigh their items, then punch out the price label from the scales. The bags are plastic. I guess you could put a label directly on some items without the bag, like celery or green peppers (one at a time). But what about carrots, sugar peas, snap beans, etc.?

[Rhiannon12866]

66. It's exactly the same here - we have Hannaford and Price Chopper

Some fruits and vegetables come loose, there are plastic bags in the produce department and you weigh them to determine the price at checkout. And there are other fruits and vegetables already in plastic bags or boxes with the price already posted on the shelf.

It's impossible to get around the plastic - even paper towels are already double wrapped in plastic, each roll is wrapped, and if you buy a package of several, the whole bunch is wrapped in plastic a second time!

[Mr.Bill]

39. Another thing most people don't think about

is that just about everything you buy is warapped in material with printing on it. I decided to become a printer in the early 70s. I was never without a job for 40 years. I'm retired now so I don't know the current stats but in the 80s printing was the fifth largest occupation in the US.

[Skittles]

41. agreed

[TreasonousBastard]

55. I have been there. Many times. Many, many times.

[Skittles]

59. I hear you

I think there is a special place in hell reserved for the inventor of clamshell packaging

[TreasonousBastard]

60. And the heat presses that glue them together.

[dalton99a]

67. +1

[DET]

74. Thanks!

I’ve never seen that before, but that was hilarious - mostly because it’s so true. There has to be a better way.

[PatrickforB]

42. Well, I'm hardly a champion for Wall Street greed lizards, and generally agree with you

about how we are choking the planet with plastic waste.

I too have issues with plastic packaging, particularly when it is a large sealed clear plastic package with a big cardboard backing for a little tiny product.

I brought this up to my cousin who owns an auto parts store in the Houston TX area. He looked at me and said, "Well, then stop people from stealing." Because to his mind, much of the excessive packaging is due to rampant shoplifting. I just read an article saying that a number of stores will be closing because of billions in losses from shoplifting.

If we actually wanted to look at the root causes of climate change, pollution, homelessness, rising crime, healthcare debt, student debt, addictive behaviors and gun violence, we could arrive at the sense of meaninglessness and powerlessness most people, especially younger people, feel in this 'profit-over-people-every-time' capitalist world we live in.

Bottom line, by legal precedent we hold shareholder profits to be more important than worker welfare, consumer welfare, communities and the habitability of our planet. As long as we stay with this legal doctrine and allow corporate money to corrupt our Congress, we will continue these things with no change.

What if we decided that instead of letting the Wall Street greed lizards rule us, we would adopt a stakeholder approach to corporate governance that would allow CEOs in publicly held companies to consider worker wages, benefits, pensions, safety, work life balance, quality and safety of products and environmental impact equally with shareholder profits?

Like John Lennon sang, "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..."

[Maru Kitteh]

50. THANK YOU! Layers and layers of plastic packaging. It's sickening. nt

[txwhitedove]

51. Exactly. We started 5 years ago by turning down plastic

straws and bought reusable straws for home and car.
Then bamboo toothbrushes.
Reusable shopping bags, and no produce in plastic.
Inexpensive washable napkins, no paper.
Found eco friendly plant based garbage bags.
Bought inexpensive absorbent kitchen towels, so rarely paper.
Make my own citrus all purpose spray cleaner, healthier.
Bought the laundry detergent sheets in small box for 3 years, they are terrific. (Breezo, Earth Breeze on Amazon but starting to see ads now.)
Buy bleach tablets in small bottle, then add 1 to water in marked glass jar for use.
French Press coffee maker so no filters
No plastic scent plug ins, that also saves electricity.
All this has really cut down on trash we put out.

I know people who won't change anything. But it's not enough to talk and worry about our planet. Small changes in stages.

[Scrivener7]

58. I've started doing takeout only from places that offer the old Chinese food paper cartons or

ones that use the new cardboard clamshells. And telling other restaurants about it. That's cut way down on my plastic output.

Also, I make my own laundry detergent and have been using the same plastic laundry soap gallon bottles for years. About 3 years ago, one of my plastic bottles broke so I thought I'd treat myself to some Tide and then I'd use that plastic bottle for my homemade stuff. I found the Tide made everything smell very chemically and feel stiff - probably from the unnecessary sudsing agents - and didn't clean as well as my homemade stuff. (Cascade powder, washing powder and borax.)

[txwhitedove]

69. All excellent. We hardly eat take out anymore. I tried making

laundry soap, but the dehydrated sheets work better for me. Also use the wool dryer balls. We have a dish soap bar, but the store liquid works better so haven't adapted that product.

[roamer65]

72. MY PLASTIC PET PEEVE.

The multi-layer plastic snack and chip bags that almost no recyclers accept.

[Texasgal]

77. It annoys me to see produce

wrapped in plastic with a Styrofoam tray... UGH.

IE: Saw a package of four bell peppers and fresh jalapeno peppers wrapped this way at the grocery store last week.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

78. The problem is that we're running out of forests

Switching back to paper-based products will create problems of a different kind that will be just as damaging to the environment. Even switching to cloth or metal-based packaging have their own unique availability and environmental challenges (for example: recycling metal can be a very nasty process).

It keeps coming back to buying local, and using things like reusable cloth bags as much as possible. I'm rather angry with my local grocer for not accepting reusable bags anymore for curbside. Used to, I kept instructions in the "notes" section to come get the reusable bags I kept in my trunk to load up my order before bringing it to the car. They stopped doing that during COVID and never let us go back to it.

What's most aggravating is that I had to replace my original set of bags because they finally became too tatty to use anymore. That was about two weeks before COVID struck. So I have all these new bags all but unused.

Grrrrrrrr

[Emile]

80. Before oil based plastic we used biodegradable cellophane.

[onethatcares]

81. look on the sunny side

it gives us something to feel good about. Recycling, right?

I heard a NPR story about the need to clean off all the labels and glue prior to plastic being able to be recyclable otherwise it all goes either to a refuse to energy plant or the landfill.