AOC on TikTok and why it shouldn't be banned

[live love laugh]

[Deuxcents]

1. Impressive explanation... she's alright in my book 👍

[lapucelle]

2. If only someone would do something to regulate American social media companies

to better protect our privacy. You know...like someone in Congress.

Why have they been sitting on their hands so long, instead of doing the work?

As for any "explanation" of why tik-tok should not be banned, I'm surprised that a member of Congress hasn't considered the fact that we cannot regulate a Chinese company and that not all national security threats require classified briefings.

[MichMan]

3. Why can't we regulate a Chinese company?

Are they immune from following any US laws or regulations?

Doesn't the FDA have authority over Chinese drugs, medical devices, cosmetics and food products for example? Are Chinese cars exempt from DOT and EPA standards?

[lapucelle]

4. Those are tangible products that we can physically inspect and control, so there is a distinction

with a major difference between your examples and social media.

However, your questions are better directed to those in Congress who have failed American users of social media when it comes to regulations to protect privacy.

[MichMan]

27. You said Congress can't regulate a Chinese company

They can't regulate what it does in other countries, but clearly have the power to regulate it in the US
however they damn please.

[lapucelle]

29. Congress needs to do its job. That includes all members.

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. You mean something like the American Data Privacy and Protection Act?

[lapucelle]

15. This? It died in the 117th Congress.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/8152/actions

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. You asked why members of congress weren't doing anything.

They tried.

[Phoenix61]

5. How would you enforce laws on data harvesting against

the Chinese government? You wouldn’t. She ugh we need laws to control US companies.

[MichMan]

6. Block an app that is doing it?

Might be one of the ways

[pinkstarburst]

8. So why not block Facebook, Twitter and the rest of them?

[MichMan]

10. Federal and many State governments have banned Tik Tok from government devices

In addition, the FBI has identified Tik Tok specifically as a security threat.

As far as I know they havent banned Twitter and Facebook. They apparently see a distinction.

[pinkstarburst]

17. If TikTok is not appropriate on government devices

which obviously it isn't, then Twitter and Facebook should be banned as well.

[Zeitghost]

22. Why?

One is a surveillance tool of the Chinese Communist Party and the others are American social median companies. Its apples and hand grenades.

[Phoenix61]

19. Because they aren't storing data in a foreign country

that is not friendly to the US.

They aren’t in any way owned by a government that actively supports hackers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/chinese-hackers-covid-fraud-millions-rcna59636

[Celerity]

21. Developers in China, Russia had access to Facebook user data for years, senators say

https://www.scmagazine.com/analysis/privacy/developers-in-china-russia-had-access-to-facebook-user-data-for-years-senators-say

Meta is again being called out for its dubious privacy practices, this time over allegations that “significant amounts of sensitive user data” was available for access to “hundreds of thousands of developers” from what Facebook classified as “high-risk jurisdictions,” like China and Russia.

An audit of Meta’s privacy practices revealed “nearly 90,000 separate developers” in China and over 42,000 developers in Russia, and thousands of developers in other high-risk jurisdictions, including Iran and North Korea, had access to user information. Not only did the social media giant know about the possible access, internal documents show the data could have been used to facilitate espionage, according to a letter sent by Sens. Mark Warner, D-Va., and Marco Rubio, R-Fla.

The senators are the chair and vice chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, respectively, and are demanding Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg provide the committee with a response to these recent reports. The letter was sent after the company’s own investigation revealed the apparent data sharing. The internal audit was brought on after the Cambridge Analytica fallout in 2018, where a New York Times report found Facebook handed privileged API access to Huawei, OPPO, TCL, and other China-backed device makers for at least eight years.

The Times report confirmed the “device manufacturers were permitted to access a wealth of information on Facebook’s users, including profile data, user IDs, photos, as well as contact information and even private messages.” The news prompted a host of lawsuits. Congress has been meeting with company leadership in the wake of these developments over its “lax data security policies related to third-party applications” and to determine just who had access to user data and the controls used by Facebook to prevent privacy breaches. The documents were released as part of the legal filings.

snip

[Phoenix61]

25. I don't understand what that has to do with Tik-Tok? nt

[pinkstarburst]

28. Some people are all in a tizzy

over TikTok when Facebook is doing the same thing. We shouldn't be banning one social media platform. We should be making regulations that prevent ALL the social media platforms from harvesting that sort of private data from users, similar to what the EU does.

It's stupid to go after TikTok and ignore that Facebook, Twitter and all the rest do the exact same thing.

[Phoenix61]

39. How is stopping Tik Tok from doing something a bad thing?

We need to start somewhere.

[Phoenix61]

26. I don't understand what that has to do with Tik-Tok? nt

[Celerity]

34. it is a response to your claim:

here is the reply chain:

[Phoenix61]

38. I can see it's a response. I'm unclear on the point you're trying to make. nt

[Celerity]

42. It seems pretty clear to me. I showed an example of Facebook also providing US user data to

entities within nations that are very unfriendly towards the US. Both the Russian and Chinese governments thus had access, as the whole concern about firms/actors in those two nations is that their respective governments can access that data and directly or indirectly control or manipulate things via that data possession. That is literally the main reason given by pro Tik-Tok banners as to why they want to ban the app.

[Phoenix61]

45. The article is dated Feb 8, 2023

“Congress has been meeting with company leadership in the wake of these developments over its “lax data security policies related to third-party applications” and to determine just who had access to user data and the controls used by Facebook to prevent privacy breaches. The documents were released as part of the legal filings.”
We have no idea what the outcome of this will be. Either way, what does that have to do with Tik Tok?

[Delphinus]

35. Cambridge Analytica

is coming to mind. That was found to be Russian meddling but we're not stopping anyone from Facebook.

[Phoenix61]

40. No it's wasn't.

“In March, The New York Times, working with The Observer of London and The Guardian, obtained a cache of documents from inside Cambridge Analytica, the data firm principally owned by the right-wing donor Robert Mercer. The documents proved that the firm, where the former Trump aide Stephen K. Bannon was a board member, used data improperly obtained from Facebook to build voter profiles. The news put Cambridge under investigation and thrust Facebook into its biggest crisis ever. Here’s a guide to our coverage.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/us/politics/cambridge-analytica-scandal-fallout.html

[Delphinus]

43. Well,

there are two different stories that I've read that show a connection to Russia.

The first: [link:https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2023/03/21/andrei-masalovich-avalanche-russia-cambridge-analytica/?sh=24fbec1f424a|]

The second: [link:https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-academic-trawling-facebook-had-links-to-russian-university]

[Phoenix61]

44. You must not have bothered to read the Forbes article.

It has nothing to do with Cambridge Analytica. It’s about a Russian company, Avalanche, that does the same thing as Cambridge Analytica.
It seems you didn’t bother to read the second one either.
“ Kogan told the Observer: “Nothing I did on the Russian project was at all related to Cambridge Analytica in any way. No data or models.” His recollection was that the Russia project had started a year after his collaboration with Cambridge Analytica ended.”
And finally, Meta was fined for what they did so that issue has been resolved.
So again, what’s your point?

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Good Piece

Hard to disagree with her points.

[pinkstarburst]

9. Very good post

The issue here isn't TikTok or any specific platform. Banning TikTok is stupid if you're not going to address the fact that Facebook and IG and Twitter are just as bad. ALL of the social media platforms gather information about users without their knowledge and consent. It is ridiculous to ban TikTok when Meta, Twitter, and all the others are doing the exact same thing. What congress should be doing is heavily regulating what information social media platforms are allowed to collect and store.

[Lancero]

11. Hilariously, China would still have access to all that information through those very companies.

https://www.scmagazine.com/analysis/privacy/developers-in-china-russia-had-access-to-facebook-user-data-for-years-senators-say

User information is a valuable commodity these days. And US companies know that - Which is why they screech to high hell about Chinese companies 'spying' on people. It's not really about protecting the privacy of US citizens. It's about ensuring that they still have a market for the information they collect.

[ismnotwasm]

12. Of course it shouldn't be banned

I appreciate her speaking up to the larger point of protection from data gathering.

[malaise]

13. Nailed it sister

Rec

[betsuni]

23. Thank you.

[Celerity]

20. TikTok has 150 million US users, I would call that pretty damn mainstream. That's around 57% of the

entire 13yo and up (you have to be 13 years of age to register on TikTok) US population.

Opposing the ban is hardly a fringe, non mainstream position.

To get into the political aspect:

Dems are against a ban a net 48 points more than the Rethugs in a recent A- rated poll.

Only 33% of 18 to 34yos support a ban, and when it is only registered voters, that number drops to 31%,

Those last 2 numbers include Rethugs in the in the mix, so it very likely is even less for Dem 18-34yos. I would take a stab and say only 25 per cent or even less of Dem 18-34yos support a ban.

[Xandric]

31. The popularity fallacy

Just because something is extremely popular, it doesn't mean it's good.

[Celerity]

32. Non sequitur. I made no claim that TikTok was good, nor a claim it was bad.

[Xandric]

36. Did you make a claim at all?

I just expected you to have an opinion about AOC's argument
It appears that you were simply telling us that tiktok has a huge number of users, without specifying the relevance of that.

[Celerity]

37. I also, in the same post, added some information as to the political dimension of the debate.

I was attempting to show that being against the ban was not a fringe, non-mainstream stance.

I think a ban would hurt us politically, on balance, more than it will hurt the Rethugs.

That said, there is no ban as of now, so this is all, of course, just speculation.

[lapucelle]

30. The Ranking Member of House Foreign Affairs Committee, Gregory Meeks (NY-5),

just told Jonathan Capehart that he's had classified briefings concerning Tik-Tok.

[ripcord]

33. Of course there is no way around the ban, just ask the Chinese government

What happens when people when people violate a ban?

[walkingman]

46. Another example that these phones have made people literally insane.