General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat would the flat 30% "consumption tax" do to people on Social Security?
Would they be exempt OR would it hit them very hard? From what I can find, they would be on the short end of this fiasco.
I know it will not pass in the foreseeable future, but I also didn't think ROE would ever be overturned.
gab13by13
(21,487 posts)People will pay $260.
Response to gab13by13 (Reply #1)
Post removed
dflprincess
(28,094 posts)Meaning no more tax dedicated to funding Social Security making it easier to destroy the program.
SKKY
(11,833 posts)...What is your basis for this because every report I have read on this is fairly devastating from a financial perspective.
dpibel
(2,894 posts)If you think the effective tax rate for anyone on Social Security, or anyone making less than the median income, is higher than 30%, I think you're full of beans.
we can do it
(12,217 posts)moonscape
(4,676 posts)work force and not able to be, who live on social security and modest savings? Definitely not a wash.
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)People who must spend all of their money to survive will essentially be paying a 30% tax. Those who can afford to tuck a substantial portion away in savings will be paying a fast lower percent of their income in taxes.
(That's a broad brush explanation if why it is regressive. The details will differ, depending on what is taxed, and whether there are any exemptions. But the principle remains the same for all sales/value-added taxes.)
Ferrets are Cool
(21,116 posts)Johnny2X2X
(19,254 posts)Now I'm sure even GOPers would exempt food from it, but everything else would crush the poor and the middle class who spend most of their incomes just to live. It would be the most regressive tax imaginable with the rich paying 1-2% of their incomes in taxes and the poor paying closer to 30% of their incomes.
And it would utterly destroy the economy by encouraging people not to spend money, but rather to hoard it.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Hard state to be poor in.
Johnny2X2X
(19,254 posts)Bolder and bolder craziness.
Here's the thing about the GOP, they know that anything they say is fine as long as Trump will support it. So they no longer care about it flying with the public, they have an audience of one. No position is too extreme and their principles no longer matter. Trump is their go/no go gauge.
MuseRider
(34,136 posts)Our Dem Governor tried to get it removed but the R's who rule all in the land made sure she could only get a little taken down with the rest to come later........and that depends on who is in charge or if the R's will ever vote for it again.
CTyankee
(63,926 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It was that way when I moved back to Iowa in 1999. I don't remember anything being exempt.
rsdsharp
(9,234 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)You are right about Iowa exempting food. Most of the time my grocery trips have zero sales tax here in Iowa.
MichMan
(12,002 posts)CTyankee
(63,926 posts)Now we get into what is a progressive tax and I would say a luxury would qualify. If you can afford a high end car you can afford a tax on it.
MichMan
(12,002 posts)Would the government need to issue an id card stating your sales tax rate based on your previous year's income? You would need to show it at the gas station, supermarkets, and any other in person or on line retailer? Seems cumbersome.
What if someone sent their High School aged kid to the store to buy something?
CTyankee
(63,926 posts)MichMan
(12,002 posts)Gas, groceries, lunch, Amazon, car repairs, hotels, and everything else people buy daily.
Sales taxes on everything would depend on your income level.
"Before I can ring up your lunch bill, I need to see your tax return from last year to determine the amount of sales tax you owe "
CTyankee
(63,926 posts)believe. Some things you buy in the supermarket are taxable which I cannot enumerate but my guess is anything you buy that is not deemed a necessity.
There was an issue a few years back over taxing fast food. My husband was head of the Homeless Commission for the city at the time. He pointed out that the homeless eat fast food because, by definition, they have no kitchens to cook/heat the food.
MichMan
(12,002 posts)On addition to all the state and federal gas taxes. Grocery items are not taxed, but all restaurants including fast food are.
How would all the places I mentioned implement a progressive sales tax based on income level?
CTyankee
(63,926 posts)hippywife
(22,767 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,476 posts)Seniors would worry. It would bankrupt their nursing home plans earlier, and some of those costs would eventually be borne by the Feds. Long term care insurance participation would skyrocket, so insurers would be juiced. it would reduce inheritances for all but the wealthy, but young people might vote for candidates in favor of a flat tax because the fallout for young people would be decades away.
It could be exempted, or partially exempted, or a giant tax credit. I don't see how you reduce the number of IRS workers any easier than any other downsizing.
What would Congress do if all the tweaks to income, deductions, credits, exemptions, set-asides, carryovers, write-offs were castrated? There are so many euphemisms for the exclusion of income that naming them is a growth industry!
The tax code is so complex someone estimated it would take more than a year to read it? It's unsustainable. I dread tax season. I believe we need a very progressive tax code with few if any deductions. Make big entities PAY for their activity instead of lobbying their way out of it. This tax code was written for real estate developers and large landlords and oil wildcatters because that's who Congressmen listen to!! Every city has its slumlords, who write off everything, depreciated, fail to repair or maintain their inventory, and treat renters like dirt. The oil industry creates jobs and money for shareholders and economic growth. And it's all a tax deduction! I think the investor Robert Kyosaki detailed some of these in some of his books. It's documented, that's why I mention it, not secret knowledge or opinion.
Captain Zero
(6,861 posts)That would raise some money.
Girard442
(6,088 posts)That is, to make American cars like Brit cars.
Well, could be I suppose, but -- the plan requires all cars to be switched simultaneously, while many are moving down the road at highway speed.
That's what a huge change to the tax code would be like.
Wounded Bear
(58,773 posts)CrispyQ
(36,557 posts)They seem to want to outdo each other in being the lowest & most vile among us.
2naSalit
(86,920 posts)Pretty sure it's true.
Buckeyeblue
(5,505 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,116 posts)SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)It woukd devastate seniors on SS!
And single parents / working poor.
Imagine paying 30% more for everything!
MiHale
(9,799 posts)If you cant afford to live
lame54
(35,345 posts)MichMan
(12,002 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,476 posts)On balance, they get more for their money than we do because we have to prop up the wealthy and the corporations.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,727 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 23, 2023, 01:46 PM - Edit history (1)
{Titles of two replies combined}
This seems unlikely. I did not check to see how much the prices are in terms of average annual salaries. I looked only at the UK.
House Prices
Last Updated: 18/01/2023
bucolic_frolic
(43,476 posts)MichMan
(12,002 posts)I seriously doubt that the average home cost in the US is $732,000
According the link above, the average house price in the UK is 296,000 GBP. That equates to $366,000 USD.
dpibel
(2,894 posts)At least that's what the fed thinks. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS
So, you're right, it's merely half again as much.
Still a pretty meaningful difference.
Xoan
(25,326 posts)it aint gonna happen.
CrispyQ
(36,557 posts)Retail associations must be howling at this. ???
Speaking for myself, a 30% tax would make me change my spending habits drastically. I would hardly ever treat myself & would only buy what was needed. No more art supplies, no more pistachios. I would look to cut my spending anyway I could.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)The ink would not be dry on the law before the wealthy were writing exemptions. Living primarily on SS, it would be like getting a 30% hit on my total income. The greatest impact would be on the people who were already living on the edge.
Why not just a 50% tax on luxury items, like that second home, or that 150K car?, or on an income over 500K? Boy that would raise a stink! We are watching the Republican party making a run at destroying the economy so that their donors can come in and buy up everything. It is not Fascism as much as feudalism in the making.
CrispyQ
(36,557 posts)I think I read that in a Thom Hartmann book & he agrees with you, that's where we're headed.
I found my mother's ration stamps after she died. She was just a little girl at the time & my grandmother had to sign for her, but even as a kid she was allotted a share of things, sugar, cheese, things like that. Todays' ration stamps are dollars. If you have them you will get stuff, & if you don't, too bad for you, loser.
We're on SS too & it would be a huge hit for us.
MichMan
(12,002 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,116 posts)Xoan
(25,326 posts)Unless you enjoy being owned by these morons.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,678 posts)is is not ?
If you have massive wealth you avoid feeling any pain from a small consumption tax, now if you put this on capiltal gains I might listen
Sales taxes are regressive just like right wingers and they ONLY benefit people who already have wealth
SKKY
(11,833 posts)...to defend their positions. We all know most Republicans are chomping at the bit to get rid of the IRS. This 30% consumption tax is just the first shot across the bow. So, I say let's oblige them. Let them bring it to the floor for a vote, and then tie it around the neck of everyone who voted for it. Let's take it seriously, and let's make sure America knows just how devastating it would be if you increase the price of everything by 30%, and that their representative voted to do just that. It all goes back to that proverb, "When your adversary is making a mistake, don't interrupt them."
Ferrets are Cool
(21,116 posts)GoodRaisin
(8,933 posts)What % people on SS are paying now, vs. 30%. Devastating.