So, most of the time I am fairly civil in my posts but, this evening. I am on my third snifter of

[Atticus]

brandy and am, thus, not inclined to pretense.

The plain unvarnished truth is that Trump and supporters of his too numerous to mention should be in their second year of imprisonment. That this is not where we are at is an international embarrassment.

Those who disagree should know they are the cause of many smiles on the other side of the aisle.

Pax vobiscum.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. The nightmare is about to begin when the traitor party takes over the House.

Only one in 4 under 29 bothered to vote last month. We will not survive if that continues.

[Pobeka]

3. So much for them (under 29'ers) being concerned about climate change.

What are they thinking?

[Rebl2]

8. I don't

know why I got the idea that age group voted at higher rate than that. Guess they are not all that concerned about climate change after all.

[NullTuples]

16. That's kinda BS, blaming it on them.

"30 percent of young adults between the ages 18 and 29 are estimated to have voted in the 2022 midterm elections, marking the second-highest youth turnout in three decades. [...] In the battleground states of Florida, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, turnout for this age group was measured at 31 percent compared with 27 percent overall." And, they leaned heavily Democratic.
https://circle.tufts.edu/2022-election-center

"How young voters became the wall for the 'red wave'"
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/09/1135619172/how-young-voters-became-the-wall-for-the-red-wave

"Young voters 'canceled out' midterm voters over 65, blocking GOP gains:"
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gen-millennials-voters-2022-midterms-favored-democrats-stopping/story?id=93338313

[Eliot Rosewater]

40. 27%

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/10/1135810302/turnout-among-young-voters-was-the-second-highest-for-a-midterm-in-past-30-years


Don't know what to tell you, The people who will be hurt the most are the people who are voting the least and something has to be done. Somehow they have to be reached.

I dont care anymore about words like "blame", our LIVES are at stake, they better vote or you and I wont be able to sit here talking to each other.

[NullTuples]

44. Then one party needs to unashamedly stand for what young people stand for.

No more "reach across the aisle".

No more, "off the table".

No more catering to corporate needs over human needs.

No more reluctance to 100% loudly, always support POC, abortion & LGBTQ full equality.

No more backing down from prosecuting Republicans

No more fear of appearing to be, "too partisan".

THIS is what's turning off young people and making them indifferent to politics.

We've given them only just barely enough to get enthused about, and no more.

[Meowmee]

19. Yep

It is going to be a nightmare. Even more depressing than now watching the news, which I have. mostly stopped.

[Deuxcents]

2. International embarrassment.. that's it!

What the hell w/ the silence? How is this able to get to this level? A former US president for gods sake? What is the rest of the world thinking of US? Who n what will stop this shit?

[not fooled]

21. Yeah, compared to Peru

who looks better?

"American Exceptionalism" has taken on a new meaning--exceptionally tolerant of coups.

[Deuxcents]

22. We should not stand for this! I know I'm preaching to the choir..I'm just gobsmacked

[cilla4progress]

4. 100%

Now gotta go look up the Latin!

[Atticus]

5. "Peace be with you" nt

[republianmushroom]

6. agree, with out the use of brandy thank you

[BOSSHOG]

7. Maybe a bit of Solace Atticus

When the bad guys go to jail, they’ll have two years ahead of them and not behind.

That Brandy does a good job on your pretense stuff My Friend.

[G_j]

9. this

I’m short on words, you said it..

[AverageOldGuy]

10. Atticus: My friend Jack Daniels and I agree with you . . . however . . .

We think Special Counsel Jack Smith signals that DOJ and Sleepy Garland are ready to indict people, including Trump.

It's all about "the wheels of justice grind slowly but they grind fine" and "the moral arc of the universe bends toward justice."

On the other hand, in every coup attempt I know of, the losers either (1) were executed, sometimes on the spot, or, (2) sent to jail for a long time, or, (3) exiled never to return.

And then I think "Highly classified documents; planning the coup; refusing to tell his people to stop the riot -- WTF???? WHY ARE TRUMP AND THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM STILL FREE?"

Maybe my friend Jack can help . . . I'll go consult with him.

[not fooled]

28. The American way of handling coup instigators

is to let them embarrass themselves into irrelevancy and ridicule by issuing NFT trading cards?

[Evolve Dammit]

11. nothing un-civil about your post Atticus. And I agree.

[Beastly Boy]

12. At the risk of cracking a smile or ten on the other side of the aisle, I disagree.

The only data driven statement in your post is the amount of brandy you have consumed so far. Perhaps this is reason enough to color your view of proper administration of justice to resemble that of an unremarkable banana republic, but I do not accept such analogy to be anywhere near plain unvarnished truth. Far from it. It's a tremendous and, apparently, a deeply underappreciated blessing that we are nowhere near this pace of dispensing retribution, and, unless you are Putin's speech writer, our failure to keep up with the standards of an authoritarian penal system is far form being an international embarrassment, In fact, were I to consume three shots of good brandy, I would argue that America's justice system is the most admired in the world.

But that would just be the liquor talking.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

29. Traitortrump was illegally in possession of Top Secret docs and walks free. Would you be free?

[Beastly Boy]

30. Channeling my inner Perry Mason: Objection. Calls for speculation.

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2022, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)

But if I were an ex US President with an army of less than scrupulous lawyers at my disposal, I most likely would.

On the other hand, if this were Venezuela, all bets are off. The possible outcomes would range between me being declared dictator for life within less than a year to being executed without the stupid formality of a trial within a week.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

31. Venezuela has nothing to do with it, so far as I know.

[Beastly Boy]

32. Of course not.

The reference to Venezuela was made in reference to my previous post about a distinction between how justice is being served in the US vs how justice is being served in an unremarkable banana republic.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

33. The question is about arrest in this country. ...

If the FBI found illegally stored, Top Secret documents in your private home, under your control, after they obtained a search warrant based on the probability that you illegally transported those documents to your private home, would there be any delay in your arrest?

[Beastly Boy]

35. The question is about the timing, nor the arrest.

The OP argues, quite emotionally, that the time period with no arrests is unreasonable under the circumstances. I view his sentiment as resembling the standards of justice common to a banana republic, and I reminded him that our justice system, which does not conform to the OP's idea of justice, is probably most admired in the world.

And once again, please pat attention to the post you first replied to: if I were an ex-president with an army of less than scrupulous lawyers at my disposal, there would very likely be a delay in my arrest. Apples to apples as far as circumstances go, not apples to oranges. And you should already be aware why there is a reference to Venezuela.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

36. Then the OP's frustration is reasonable -- there is no equal justice under the law.

[Beastly Boy]

38. First, the OPs frustration is baseless

This case is unprecedented, and that, by definition, means there is no objective reference possible, let alone available to base his frustration on.
Second, the Ops frustration is subjective (having a bit much to drink is hardly an objective justification)and there was no other reason given to justify his frustration.
Third, “there is no justice under the law” is such a broad statement that it would inevitably fall apart, even on the examination of this particular case, let alone as a general statement.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

39. I'm losing sight of the goal posts.

[Atticus]

37. Your Gish-galloping remark about "apples to oranges" is so obviously not

the case that I have to wonder if it was seriously made.

The point is not whether you would be treated differently if you were Trump. The point is SHOULD you be. Is treating Trump so differently really "justice"?

I am sure you can respond with further lectures about how lucky we are that Trump has not yet been at all inconvenienced after his insurrection and his theft of classified documents, but maybe "read the room" a little better.

[Beastly Boy]

42. With all due respect, you've got to lay off that brandy, at least when you are posting.

The thread I am replying to begins with the post that is titled, and I quote, " Traitortrump was illegally in possession of Top Secret docs and walks free. Would you be free?"

WOULD, not SHOULD. So my Gish-galloping remark is self explanatory in the face of your criticism. Yes, it was made seriously, and it was to the point. But I really don't care whether it is "would" or "should". In both cases, comparing Trump's circumstances to mine is pretty silly. And using this silly comparison as a pretext for passing judgements on the integrity of America's justice system is even sillier. Hence my call to find a more "apples to apples" comparison in this circumstance. Sadly, it appears to be falling on deaf ears.

And, of course, you are fully aware that these comparisons, in addition to being silly, are purely hypothetical. They add nothing to defining "justice", no matter how you look at it.

I can indeed respond with further lectures, bit they would not be, contrary to your remark, "about how lucky we are that Trump has not yet been at all inconvenienced". So I am afraid, you will get neither the satisfaction of me doing so, nor the validation of your pretty obvious (should I fall back to "silly"?) distortion of what my lectures may contain.

[Atticus]

43. Bless your heart. nt

[dchill]

13. Totally sober and yet in total agreement with you.🤝

[alfredo]

14. I kinda like him twisting in the wind.

It’s a tight race to see what comes first, time in the stir, or going completely batshit crazy. No sympathy for him. He’s earned my contempt.

[Mopar151]

25. How the Feds roll!

Had a couple friends get jammed up. Left em to twist in the wind as long as legally possible, in hopes of turning them into confidential informants.

[alfredo]

41. 1+

[CrispyQ]

15. We look weak & foolish as a country & a party. -nt

[calimary]

17. I raise my cup of hot tea to toast your post, Atticus!

[Meowmee]

18. You have spoken the truth imo

[ffr]

20. Everybody is at wits end

DOJ is protecting certain political figures. Either they've been impotent all along or they're playing two justice systems. If the former, they should be honest about it and say they don't have the capacity to act, move on with your lives. If two justice systems, that which is for the politically connected and the rest of us, just say it! Because that's what it is! We see it plain and simple. TFG, Meadows, Barr, all of the grifters up and down in the GOP, are above the law. They could massacre people on video in Times Square on New Years day and this DOJ is impotent to act.

We've had enough! We know that the rest of us have to play by the rules, while everyone in the GOP doesn't.

GOT IT! Merry Christmas or whatever!

[TygrBright]

23. Et cum spiritu tuo. n/t

[lpbk2713]

24. Brandy is dandy

And Trump is a chump.

[jcgoldie]

26. international embarrassment...

...was a thing we jumped 5 or 6 years ago. We're way past that to the "just let it die" stage.

[PufPuf23]

27. There are moments when think what we "experience" is our "betters" laughing at the rest of us.

Remind myself that the vast majority of us live lives of quiet desperation looking and hoping for the best.

Electronic TFG cards of great price are so weird and icky and why is TFG and cohort and enablers not in prison and why are members of Congress and public employees (including career and elected) that openly support and often participated in the evil still in office or position of public trust?

Crazy making. Due to age, health, and poverty (mostly health), I will not see the other side.

Makes me sad.

[bigtree]

34. so far, this looks like a democratic nation

...it's Justice Dept. and courts working deliberately, equally advantaging the defenses against govt. prosecution; meting out the legal process to take into account those defenses our Bill of Rights and our Constitution intend for the protection of citizens against the power of the State.

That said, there's no comfort for the righteous in the interim between prosecution and judgment, except for faith in that deliberative process. I daresay the alternative of swift judgment without those defenses would be, should be even less comfort to citizens subject to the rule of the State.

[Scrivener7]

45. Kick.