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SouthernDem4ever

(6,170 posts)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 05:35 AM Nov 2022

I saw an article in the Times this morning that floored me

Headline reads:

Jewish Allies Call Trump’s Dinner With Antisemites a Breaking Point

For much of Donald J. Trump’s presidency, Jewish Republicans rationalized away the bigoted fringe of Mr. Trump’s coalition, arguing that the unsavory supporters in his midst and the antisemitic tropes he deployed paled in comparison with the staunchly pro-Israel policies of his administration. But last week, Mr. Trump dined at his Palm Beach palace, Mar-a-Lago, with the performer Kanye West, who had already been denounced for making antisemitic statements, and with Nick Fuentes, an outspoken antisemite and Holocaust denier, granting the antisemitic fringe a place of honor at his table. Now, even some of Mr. Trump’s staunchest supporters say they can no longer ignore the abetting of bigotry by the nominal leader of the Republican Party.

“I am a child of survivors. I have become very frightened for my people,” Morton Klein, head of the right-wing Zionist Organization of America, said on Monday, referring to his parents’ survival of the Holocaust. “Donald Trump is not an antisemite. He loves Israel. He loves Jews. But he mainstreams, he legitimizes Jew hatred and Jew haters. And this scares me.”

Not all Republican leaders have spoken out, but Jewish Republicans are slowly peeling away from a former president who, for years, insisted he had no ties to the bigoted far right, but refused to repudiate it. Jewish figures and organizations that have stood by Mr. Trump, from Mr. Klein’s group to the pro-Trump commentator Ben Shapiro to Mr. Trump’s own former ambassador to Israel and onetime bankruptcy lawyer, David M. Friedman, have all spoken out since the dinner.

For Jews, the concern extends far beyond a single meal at Mar-a-Lago, though that dinner has become a touchstone, especially for Jewish Republicans.


The article is behind a paywall but that is the gist of it.

I guess all it takes is to have some dumb rally and say you support Israel while encouraging anti-Semite hate groups as supporters. Some people just walk around with their eyes closed. ( I said it that way to be kind. What I wanted to say was much more derogatory )
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I saw an article in the Times this morning that floored me (Original Post) SouthernDem4ever Nov 2022 OP
I'm sure that TFG still gets donations from the likes of the widow of Sheldon Adelson. no_hypocrisy Nov 2022 #1
Been Obvious For A Long Time modrepub Nov 2022 #2
Whoa frazzled Nov 2022 #9
Thanks for saying what I would say if I'd had some coffee Danmel Nov 2022 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Joinfortmill Nov 2022 #11
Point Taken modrepub Nov 2022 #21
I'm glad you brought up cyclonefence Nov 2022 #13
Only 24% of Jewish voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016. Mariana Nov 2022 #22
Trump screwed the pooch with this dinner Dorian Gray Nov 2022 #3
Gosh I hope you are right SallyHemmings Nov 2022 #5
I hope I'm right too... Dorian Gray Nov 2022 #20
Same with POC and LGBTQ....... Lovie777 Nov 2022 #4
Where does Mr. Morton Klein get the idea that trump "loves Jews"? How misguided can one be? Escurumbele Nov 2022 #6
Completely agree with you on all points nightwing1240 Nov 2022 #14
no paywall archived link Celerity Nov 2022 #7
Here is a no paywall link BumRushDaShow Nov 2022 #8
They'll vote for Trump if they think he can win. Renew Deal Nov 2022 #12
First, he came after the Mexicans Martin Eden Nov 2022 #15
Better late than never ecstatic Nov 2022 #16
AIPAC, one of the largest lobbyist groups, gab13by13 Nov 2022 #17
Think again frazzled Nov 2022 #18
At least 70% of American Jewish are Democratic, and vote that way JohnSJ Nov 2022 #19

no_hypocrisy

(45,374 posts)
1. I'm sure that TFG still gets donations from the likes of the widow of Sheldon Adelson.
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 06:00 AM
Nov 2022

He gave her the Presidential Medal of Freedom. She and her late husband were big donors to Trump.

My guess is that as long as Trump supports Israel, that's enough. American Jews are not her priority.

modrepub

(3,444 posts)
2. Been Obvious For A Long Time
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 06:10 AM
Nov 2022

Republican support comes from the fringe evangelical community who staunchly believes establishing a new kingdom of Jerusalem (Third Temple?) and hastening Armageddon will bring forth the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Jews don't believe that but they like the free hand Republicans give them to do as they wish. I often wonder if Jews understand the ramifications that the Evangelical community wishes to hasten along?

The Middle East has always been a complicated place with many cultures and religions clashing in a small area with a long history. Americans barely understand their own 300 year history. I don't expect them, or me for that matter, to parse out a history that literally goes back 3 millennia.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
9. Whoa
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 06:55 AM
Nov 2022

Back up there. You’ve made some sweeping statements about “the Jews” and what they believe and what they understand, as if the minority of Jewish voters (a minuscule demographic in itself) who have voted Republican in recent years represents some kind of bloc called “the Jews.”

Here are the facts for the recent midterms:

The Election Night poll, conducted by GBAO and commissioned by the pro-Israel, pro-peace advocacy group J Street, found that Jewish voters supported Democrats over Republicans 74-25, a 49-point margin. 55 percent of Jewish voters cited “the state of democracy” as their top voting issue, while 40 percent cited abortion. A striking 76 percent said that they believe Donald Trump and his allies in the Republican Party are responsible for a rise in antisemitism and white supremacy – while 74 percent believe that Trump and the MAGA movement are “a threat to Jews in America.”

https://jstreet.org/press-releases/national-election-night-survey-of-jewish-voters-finds-overwhelming-support-for-democrats-opposition-to-trump-and-the-far-right/#.Y4Xs7i1MH4A


Polling for the 2020 presidential election showed similar results, with 77 to 78% of Jewish voters casting their votes for Biden.

It’s as if you had taken a quote from the Times from a Black male who had voted for Trump and decided what “the Blacks” understood or believed. This kind of thinking is part of the problem itself, and perpetuates wrongful ideas. Racial or religious groups are not homogeneous blocs, and you cannot take the few and apply it to the whole. I’m sorry to have to point this out.



Response to frazzled (Reply #9)

modrepub

(3,444 posts)
21. Point Taken
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:04 AM
Nov 2022

I should trend very lightly here. Apologies up front. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest. Hoping for a safe spot for discussion.

You are correct in saying there is a wide spectrum of opinion among Jews both here in the US, those abroad and those in Israel proper. And personally, I don't have a horse in the race. While I would like to see those in the Middle East provide a tolerant environment for all of their neighbors, I realize it might be impossible given the fanatics in the neighborhood. I don't have to live with folks trying to blow themselves up to maximum impact a stones throw away from me, though an argument can be made Americans suffer the same type of consequences via mass shootings.

From what I've seen, Middle East bedfellows over the last decade are strange indeed. You see (some) Israeli politicians aligning themselves with the house of Saud (and their ultra conservative Wahhabi Sunni clerics) against the Iranian Ayatollah (Shiites). Similarly I see some (of the more politically active) evangelicals giving free hand to Israel to do as they wish in hopes that this will start Armageddon and the Rapture.

The coalitions are all backwards and double stabbing. To think the Wahhabi (Sunni) would coexist with a Jewish state is crazy; they are only interested in supporting Israel because they attack a common enemy, Iran (Shiites). Israeli politicians like the Republican hands off policy to handle their internal and external affairs with minimum interference even though some evangelicals seem to think supporting Israel will get them one step closer to the second coming (and the destruction of world). They also seem to conveniently ignore the overt applied anti semitism often expressed by their Republican supporters (I guess they think that's something that only affects American Jews).

And I haven't even scratched the surface in regards to the sects within the Jewish faith (Reform, Conservative et al) that undoubtedly shape the opinions within the Jewish community and play heavily in Israeli politics.

Peace (hopefully).

cyclonefence

(4,477 posts)
13. I'm glad you brought up
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 07:32 AM
Nov 2022

the reasoning behind the broad RW evangelical support for Israel. I think it can't be said often enough that their "love" for Israel is fueled by their (self) interest in bringing about Armageddon. That is the sum-total of their interest in protecting Israel, and the same evangelicals that I grew up among--people who were as anti-semitic as they come--long for Jesus to come back and take them to heaven, and that can't happen unless Israel survives. You can't get there from here without Israel--read it for yourself in Revelations.

I don't know how broadly this is understood, even by some members of evangelical congregations, and imo can't be mentioned often enough.

Mariana

(14,809 posts)
22. Only 24% of Jewish voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016.
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:20 AM
Nov 2022

So this statement of yours is pure bullshit:

Jews don't believe that but they like the free hand Republicans give them to do as they wish.

Dorian Gray

(13,460 posts)
3. Trump screwed the pooch with this dinner
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 06:26 AM
Nov 2022

His hold is breaking... and it will be broken soon.

He can't help himself. He surrounds himself with people who love him and the only people who still love him are the worst people in the world.

Dorian Gray

(13,460 posts)
20. I hope I'm right too...
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:51 AM
Nov 2022

He's skated through career ending things before. But there is growing dissatisfaction on conservative circles. People who used to keep quiet are speaking up.

Escurumbele

(3,307 posts)
6. Where does Mr. Morton Klein get the idea that trump "loves Jews"? How misguided can one be?
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 06:45 AM
Nov 2022

trump doesn't love anyone but himself, from day one he showed contempt for Jews by siding with White Supremacists, is it that Mr. Morton Klein wants to believe trump loves him and has convinced himself of it?

Day after day I find it more difficult to understand these people who support a buffoon like trump, and the ugly people who make up the republican party. No matter how hard I try to understand why anyone would vote republican nowadays, I cannot find any justification, what am I missing? The only reason I find is that it is a blind cult, nothing else.

nightwing1240

(1,996 posts)
14. Completely agree with you on all points
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 07:34 AM
Nov 2022

And yes, the republican party is nothing more than a rich mans cult these days followed by millions and millions of broke ass, gullible, ignorant, hateful people who struggle week to week to make ends meet. Hate to paint with such a big brush but tell me how to avoid it, I don't see how with the way things are now.

Renew Deal

(81,694 posts)
12. They'll vote for Trump if they think he can win.
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 07:27 AM
Nov 2022

Republicans have no principles and Morton Klein is a perfect example of that.

ecstatic

(32,439 posts)
16. Better late than never
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 08:12 AM
Nov 2022
“Donald Trump is not an antisemite. He loves Israel. He loves Jews."




Just like he loves "the blacks," right? That guy obviously has not been paying attention. Tfg is a con artist who welcomes suckers of all stripes into his fold.

I could kill someone in broad daylight and my supporters would still support me.

That's what he thinks of all of his supporters, but you can just sense that added layer of satisfaction when someone from a group he openly despises or envies drinks the Kool-Aid. If he loved you he would NOT be putting you in harm's way. Wake up!

gab13by13

(20,544 posts)
17. AIPAC, one of the largest lobbyist groups,
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 08:15 AM
Nov 2022

will continue to pump millions of dollars to Magats because.....well, Bibi, Jerusalem, anti-Palestine.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
18. Think again
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 08:54 AM
Nov 2022
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-influential-is-aipac

Read the whole thing, but a few snips to illustrate

One could be forgiven for thinking that the organization under discussion was one of the biggest political spenders in America. In reality, AIPAC is a public affairs committee and not a political action committee; as a result, the group itself donates nothing to candidates or campaigns. By far the largest pro-Israel donor to political candidates last election cycle was JStreetAC, which gave entirely to Democrats.

. . . The way AIPAC is talked about, you’d think they’d be a lobbying juggernaut, surely one of the largest in the nation’s capital.

Wrong again: For the period between 1998 and 2018, AIPAC didn’t make a dent in the Center for Responsive Politics’ list of the top-spending lobbying groups. The US Chamber of Commerce spent $1.5 billion during that span, with the National Association of Realtors coming in a distant second, at $534 million.

. . . In 2018, total pro-Israel lobbying spending was around $5 million, of which AIPAC accounted for $3.5 million. In contrast, Native American casinos spent around $22 million that year. By Tablet’s count, AIPAC was the 147th highest-ranked entity in terms of lobbying spending in 2018.

JohnSJ

(91,589 posts)
19. At least 70% of American Jewish are Democratic, and vote that way
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:03 AM
Nov 2022

"Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views as liberal."

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2022-11-10/ty-article/.premium/74-percent-of-jewish-voters-view-trump-maga-as-threat-to-jews-in-america/00000184-6264-d51f-a7e4-6fee4a170000

"All of the Jews in the Senate are Democrats, as are all but two in the House. The Republican exceptions are Reps. Lee Zeldin and David Kustoff, from New York and Tennessee, respectively. They are the only non-Christian Republicans in the Congress, according to a report by Pew."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-members-of-the-116th-congress

My point being is these supposed Jewish allies referred to in the NY Times article are not representative of the vast majority of American Jews.

Just as Clarence Thomas, Candice Owens, Walker, etc. do not represent the vast majority of African Americans

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-men-drifted-democrats-toward-trump-record-numbers-polls-show-n1246447

Our illustrious media loves to stir things up though by highlighting these things, while minimizing that the vast majority of various minority groups in the U.S. are Democratic



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