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mahina

(17,405 posts)
Sun Nov 6, 2022, 06:12 PM Nov 2022

Timothy Snyder on Ukraine, costs and preserving security. Must be read.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1589260108537610240.html

I have tried to paste the whole over and over and can not. It won’t. You’ll need to click the link. I understand the hesitancy. I feel it often here too. It’s the unrolled Twitter thread from Timothy Snyder, promise.

Midway:

Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
The Ukrainians have reduced the possibility of Chinese aggression through Russia, and made direct Chinese aggression less likely. They have done all of this just by defending themselves, without making any move against China. 7/

Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
Without the Ukrainians, the United States would lack the policy instruments for this. By resisting, Ukrainians created an opportunity for U.S. policy that would not otherwise have existed. 8/


Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
No American lives have been placed at risk. U.S. assistance to Ukraine amounts to a rounding error in the defense budget. 9/


Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
The gains Ukrainian resistance brings to American security are so enormous that the US national security establishment is embarrassed to speak of them directly. 10/

Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
It is awkward to say that another country is doing so much for us. It is awkward to say that Ukrainian resistance has done more for the safety of Americans than any U.S. policy since the end of the cold war. But it is true and must be said. 11/


Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
Reversing the U.S. policy of aiding Ukraine will undo all of these gains. There is still time to revive Russia and reassure China, which is what ending support of Ukraine will mean. Such a policy reversal would make Americans far less safe and secure. 12/


Timothy Snyder

@TimothyDSnyder
·
8h
My concerns about the Russian invasion of Ukraine are the prevention of genocide and the defense of democracy. But those who think first of U.S. interests should acknowledge what Ukrainians are doing for American security. The least we can do is be on our own side 13/13
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Timothy Snyder on Ukraine, costs and preserving security. Must be read. (Original Post) mahina Nov 2022 OP
There is no question that our support for Ukraine, in addition to being the right thing, Just A Box Of Rain Nov 2022 #1
The scary thing is that he is probably right. Irish_Dem Nov 2022 #4
Yes exactly. Irish_Dem Nov 2022 #2
The help comes not just from depletion, but by revealing the Russian military and Putin. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2022 #6
Exactly. We have seen the Russian military capability in stark realty. Irish_Dem Nov 2022 #7
Ukraine knows it is better Dead than Red. pwb Nov 2022 #3
K&R for visibility. crickets Nov 2022 #5
 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
1. There is no question that our support for Ukraine, in addition to being the right thing,
Sun Nov 6, 2022, 06:17 PM
Nov 2022

is very much in our national interest.

I agree with Snyder on every point, save the "rounding error."

Irish_Dem

(44,251 posts)
4. The scary thing is that he is probably right.
Sun Nov 6, 2022, 06:25 PM
Nov 2022

No one has been able to do a successful audit of the Pentagon.

Lots of classified, very large pots of money thrown around that we don't know about.

Irish_Dem

(44,251 posts)
2. Yes exactly.
Sun Nov 6, 2022, 06:23 PM
Nov 2022

I said the same thing a couple of weeks ago and got push back.

The longer the war drags on, the more Ukraine is depleting the Russian military for the US.
Our aid is not just for the purpose of defending Ukraine but to damage Russia and its military.

And yes the war has damaged China's confidence and aggressive plans for domination of the Pacific,
at least in the short term. Has given the US some breathing space and time to become more prepared
for what lies ahead.

Hermit-The-Prog

(32,488 posts)
6. The help comes not just from depletion, but by revealing the Russian military and Putin.
Sun Nov 6, 2022, 11:47 PM
Nov 2022

Ukraine's successes against Putin encourage others to resist, causing more expenditures by the dictator.

Irish_Dem

(44,251 posts)
7. Exactly. We have seen the Russian military capability in stark realty.
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 06:56 AM
Nov 2022

Apparently something our military intelligence could not adequately access.

The Russian military on paper looks very different from the RU military we see on
the combat field.

We have also seen that while Putin is a genius at KGB style psy ops campaigns,
when it comes to a traditional military operation he is astoundingly incompetent.

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