I can't see myself buying an e.v.knowing that in 8 years I'll have to pay upto 10,000

[Fullduplexxx]

Last edited Wed Nov 2, 2022, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

For a new battery . How do you current owners deal with it ?

[hlthe2b]

1. That's what Prius owners were told (only it was supposedly several thousand $$) but with some

exceptions those original Prius batteries are still going. Knock on wood, that includes my 2007. So, don't jinx me but even the automotive department at the dealership is telling owners to chill out that that was a worst-case scenario that is just not common.

(Now, I go to do a litany of good luck/old wives tale measures--LOL)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

7. Good points, however a Prius is not an EV, it's a hybrid

Your batteries could cease to take/hold a charge, and you could still drive it. At least, to my knowledge, could be wrong on that.

May your Prius batteries live long and prosper

Just as I wrote that, I lit up some Nag Champa incense, so I know my incantation is going to work.

You're covered, IOW

[MurrayDelph]

11. When my '02 Prius batteries died

after 8 years and 187,000 miles, it would have cost $4,000 to fix, so I used that money for a down payment on a 2010 Prius.

[MichMan]

37. Did you end up scrapping it?

[MurrayDelph]

55. I wanted to get it declared totaled

So I could transfer my carpool stickers, but I just traded it in for a pittance.

[hlthe2b]

12. ...

[Volaris]

52. I'd like to add: even if the battery goes bad, it's kot the whole thing...

I bought my prius used, from a guy who specializes in evs/hybrids who said he worked for Toyota for decades. He warranties the car for a year used, and the battery for 2 for the following reasons.

The batteries are a bank of cells wired in series. Once the pack comes apart, each cell can be disconnected and checked (and his shop does this for each prius they try to move, in order that IT WON'T go bad). If one of the cells IS bad (and therefore, throwing the charge of the whole thing as far as the car is concerned), it can be removed from the pack and replaced for less than a hundred bucks NEW, plus labor).


If you're worried about labor, any reasonably skilled human with a garage with tools in it SHOULD be able to do this themselves; there's videos on YouTube.

10 grand my ass lol.

[hlthe2b]

54. Good to know, thanks. I'd researched 3rd party battery options years ago but

this is new info.

[MichMan]

2. They will probably just trade it in and let the next owner deal with it

[Fullduplexxx]

19. That thought occurred to me but who would by it knowing

That battery change is coming sooner than later

[MissB]

3. I bought one in 2021

A volvo XC40 P8.

If I still have the car at that point, then I'll have to buy a battery.

I don't do routine maintenance like oil changes. There isn't any to do. Barely use the brakes because of the one-pedal drive/regenerative braking.

On my previous gas car, every time I'd take it to the shop it'd be 500 bucks (granted, it was a Mercedes, so it was of course more expensive to service.) Sometimes it'd be 2x/year. That doesn't include things like tires.

I really don't see any difference here. I'm saving $ on both gas and maintenance, which means when I have to buy the battery, I could have the funds available to do so. Or I could trade it in and get a different EV.

Pretty sure I'm going to keep this one forever. No different to me than the idea that keeping a car for a long time could require a new transmission or some other major engine work.

[Disaffected]

4. I'm dealing with it by

waiting for longer lived batteries to become available (2025?). Also waiting for a smaller hatchback such as the ID3 or maybe Tesla 2 to get here, if ever.

I suppose current owners either have to suck it up or use it for city driving only.

[Angleae]

22. No one is changing engines or transmissions at 8 years.

Maybe 14-20 years, but even then it's more in the 3-4 thousand range(for new engine, 1-2k for tranny or used engine) rather than 10k (if they still make the battery packs for your car)

[ProfessorGAC]

25. New Engines In 8 Years?

Very few people that get oil changes will need engine replacement until 225,000 to 300,000 miles.
A 15k mile per year driver is looking at 15 to 20 years.

[JT45242]

32. Big heavy vans expect to replace transmission at 125-175k ish

I have one van that needed a new transmission at 125k. Son has gotten it to 205k on the rebuilt transmission in the 2005 van for about 2 grand.

2010 van has 160k and original transmission.

I have literally never replaced an engine and always drive cars until they die. (The Ford escort could have had it's engine replaced when it died at 177k ...instead we bought a late model used van). B

[newdayneeded]

33. I've owned 20+ vehicles in my lifetime

many with miles ran to 170k+. Never replaced an engine or tranny.

[Disaffected]

34. My car is 20 yo and has nearly 500,000 Kms on it.

Still runs well. It's a diesel which tend to last longer than gasoline but, today's gasoline engines should last longer than eight years (unless it's a taxi or some-such) if it is not abused and properly maintained.

[tinrobot]

42. City driving only? Not anymore.

I've driven my ID.4 on multiple 1000+ mile road trips with no issues. The newer 2023 ID.4 models (made in the US) have even better batteries. Battery tech is a non-issue.

Now, getting an ID.3 or a smaller format vehicle is problematic. Seems like all car companies want to make is SUVs and trucks.

[Disaffected]

43. I was just talking about limiting to city driving

with an old, reduced capacity battery rather than replacing it.

How do you like your ID4? I'm considering one but the delivery time here is one to two years, depending on which dealer you talk to.

You are right - all we get here is the big stuff as smaller just doesn't sell. I look at envy at what the Europeans, Australians etc. etc. have available. I might buy an ID3 soon, if I could...

[tinrobot]

49. I really like it.

Got one of the first ones off the boat in 2021. Already have 25k miles on it and it's been great.

Thinking about upgrading to AWD. Wait times are dropping in the US now that the Tennessee-built ones are starting deliveries.

[dem4decades]

5. I was considering a Lexus 450h, if I'm not mistaken you can buy an aftermarket battery pack for

around 3 grand. Not great but better than 6 grand.

[Cattledog]

6. Battery prices will be much lower 8 years from now.

[Victor_c3]

23. We're on the verge the next generation battery technology entering the market

Solid state batteries, cheaper, smaller, and safer. The last article I read said they should be hitting the market in 3-5 years.

I’m personally holding off on buying an EV until then.

[Disaffected]

35. Yeah, Toyota

has one scheduled for 2025. I dunno if SS batteries will be cheaper however. There is also some interesting work going on with sodium ion batteries but who knows if they will reach mass production.

[inthewind21]

8. Huh

Where did you come across this information that in 8 years you'd need to buy a 20K Battery? I remember all the quoted as fact hand wringing over solar panels as well. Hint, just like everything else, the more that are sold. The cheaper they become. Think microwave ovens, flat screen tv's, and laptops to name a few.

[IbogaProject]

9. Tesla batteries

Tesla has expensive batteries and they as of now circumvent right to repair by rejecting 3rd party items under a "safety" loophole. Other companies don't pull that BS.

[kysrsoze]

16. Your typical Tesla suffers minimal capacity loss over time. There are rentals with 300K-400K miles

... still going strong. The outright failures are extremely rare, and happen during the warranty period. The minimal Tesla battery warranty is 8 years/100K miles. Hyundai brands go to 10 years/100K miles. It doesn't mean they're going to die right after that.

[Disaffected]

44. Speaking of Tesla battery BS,

one of the models (S?) has a problem with one of the battery coolant hose connectors breaking off from fatigue wear. Tesla's only remedy, if the battery is off warranty, is to replace the entire battery for many $s. There is however a simple fix that can be done with minimal equipment and skill - simply thread the inside of the remaining hose connector stub where it screws into the battery casing, screw in a nipple and connect the other end of the nipple to a new hose connector. Cost to get it done at a garage who knows how is a few hundred bucks.

[Fullduplexxx]

20. General internet search which is why I wanted to ask owners

What is the average life of an EV battery?
10-20 years
Generally, electric vehicle batteries last 10-20 years, but some factors may reduce their lifespan. For instance, batteries may degrade faster in hotter climates as heat does not pair well with EVs.Sep 21, 2022
https://www.jdpower.com › cars › h...
How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last? - J.D. Power

Now this one says 10 -20 years .. 20 years wouldn't bother me so much

[masmdu]

10. Not for the Aptera solar ev

Solar gets you 40 free miles a day and the aerodynamics mean it has a much smaller batter pack therefore cheaper to replace when the time comes.

https://m.

[hunter]

13. I can't see myself buying a new or slightly used car ever. Full stop.

Hell, I've barely entered the age of cars with computers in them.

My dream car costs about $1,000 and is restorable by myself for another $1,000 or so in parts. I've had a few cars like that. The last one was destroyed by a careless neighbor who drove off the road, up over the sidewalk, and crashed into it while it was parked in my driveway. Sigh.

One of my children, who loves cars, gave me one of his so he'd have an excuse to get another.

Ideally I wouldn't own a car at all but in this society it's expected of all adults. And it's really difficult to find a place to live where car ownership is unnecessary.

My cars are a "Fuck You!" to car culture.

But secretly I like working on cars and have, in the past, burned more than my fair share of gasoline in frivolous pursuits.

[WhiteTara]

24. We were forced to buy a different car as

ours was totaled when some guy ran into us. So, I too the opportunity to by a hybrid and we get 20 free miles a day. The gas portion gets 40 miles to the gallon and if we drive for efficiency, we get about 65 miles to the gallon.

[Disaffected]

38. And hybrids have by far the least overall carbon footprint

of all (better than EVs because their batteries are a lot smaller; better than ICs because their mileage is a lot higher).

[RockRaven]

15. Using those numbers (8yrs, $10K), and using the numbers from this article for energy costs,

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/

which also uses average American driving distance per month (1183 miles), average electricity and gas prices at the time the article was written ($0.15/kWh, $3.88/gallon), efficiency of 30mpg and 3mpkWh, the per month cost savings of electricity over gas is approximately $120.

Which is $1440 per year.

So in 8 years, that is $11520.

Yes it is a big figure as a lump sum. But EV owners are coming out ahead (of course fuel prices fluctuate, so it it variable) overall. The savings are clearly present. What one does with those savings is, of course, a perennial problem.

How is the dilemma of replacing the battery at some indeterminate time in the future any different from the conventional car owner's situation of knowing that some day the transmission or timing belt or whatever is going to give out and be a costly repair?

[ret5hd]

18. ...and oil changes, and coolant changes,...

and the brakes last longer on an ev (the cars momentum is used to charge the battery rather than wearing the discs/pads…in situations)

The monthly/yearly maintenance on an ev is cheaper.

[librechik]

17. I have been told it's a myth. I think you have to check that out

There's no such thing as a zillion.

[Fullduplexxx]

21. That's why I wanted to ask owner what their experience was

[librechik]

29. When I buy EV I'm going to be sure the vehicle is self charging with the alternator

so i can power my house in an emergency. And used.

And by the way you put an extra 0 on your 10,000 thing. I was just teasing though, LOL

[Fullduplexxx]

47. Lol thanks.... fixed it

[ProfessorGAC]

36. No, no. It's True

And, I've told you this a zillion times!!!

[ForgedCrank]

26. Your intuition

is serving you well right now. Don't second guess it unless money isn't a real issue for you.

[Jose Garcia]

27. Kia has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty

[LexVegas]

28. I believe the battery is 7 years. nt

[BlueCheeseAgain]

30. My EV is 8.5 years old...

And I haven't noticed any drop in its range. I do live in a pretty warm area, though.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Battery life is 10-12 years on most models right now

Up to 18-20 years on the newest models.

[iemanja]

31. I can't get over the prices period

Even a hybrid is 10,000 more than the same car with a standard engine. That puts car payments near $600 a month, which I can't handle. I'm still plugging along with my 2007 Camry.

[Fullduplexxx]

46. Yea I can't afford it either I just couldn't see an advantage other than an environental one

[NickB79]

56. Ford Maverick starts at $21,000, hybrid standard

40+ mpg, and it's a small truck to boot.

[iemanja]

57. I can't drive a truck

and all of these cars are now selling over list price. It's cool there is an affordable electric truck though.

I was looking at the Camry hybrid and the Subaru Crosstrek hybrid.

[NickB79]

58. It's a really small truck

Really, not much bigger than the Crosstrek. I'm planning on trading my Prius in for one in 2 years.

[Iwasthere]

40. everyone's. Wifes 2007 Camry Hybris has 210,000 miles

Recently the hybrid battery warning alert popped up. I researched fixing it. Watching a youtube I was able to easily open up the case and clean all the contacts (corrosion is common on these batteries). The hybrid battery now tests really good. Maybe another 13 years to go.

[tinrobot]

41. Not an issue. My last EV saw maybe a 5-10% drop in range after 8 years.

I expect the battery in my new 250-mile EV to last a whole lot longer.

For one, the technology in the new battery is better. Plus, with a bigger battery, I put less stress on it than I did with the smaller battery. I have to charge less frequently, and I rarely run it below 30% charge. Both of those will extend battery life.

Plus, I don't expect to have this car for more than a decade. I'll probably trade in before then.

[Fullduplexxx]

45. Thank you .,.. nt

[Voltaire2]

48. your maintenance cost evaluation needs to include all the costs

of both an ICE and an EV or you are not really looking at this accurately.

The battery replacement cost is pretty high, but it is the only major drive component that is likely to ever need to be replaced or need a rebuild or major repair.

You need to add in all the service costs for an ICE car over 10 years and compare that to all the service costs for a EV. I think you will find that ICE vehicles are much more expensive. Most people need to do little more than replace the tires with an EV.

[hurl]

50. EV maintenance expenses are nearly nothing

Because EV technology is so much simpler than ICE engines, there are no oil changes, no radiator fluid changes, nearly no regular maintenance at all. Other than tire rotations and things like wiper blades, the first maintenance on my EV would be to change the battery coolant fluid at 150K.

Because my car was in a battery recall, I got a free replacement of the main drive battery, which extends that service another 50K out. No catalytic converter, no water pump, no fuel injectors, ....

This is why dealers are not pushing EVs much, because the maintenance revenue is so low.

I love not feeling obligated to take my EV in every few thousand miles for anything other than tire rotations. Adding all that up over the many years the battery will survive outweighs the replacement concern.

But I also have my own charger in my garage and am privileged in other ways that make this decision moot. I was able to keep my old ICE car as an emergency backup, and I dump lots of money into it just keeping it road ready. As long as I can drive, an EV will be my main daily driver.

[ChazII]

51. kicking back to the top. n/t

[Marthe48]

53. I have a 2008 Prius

closing in on 100,000 miles, which is how long the battery is said to last. But some owners say their battery is still good at over 150,000. My car is doing great, no symptoms of a dying battery. The last time I checked, it was around $3000.00 to replace the battery. That is more affordable than buying a different used car for $20,000.00. The Prius is a hybrid, and if the battery fails, it'll keep running on gas, just not as economical. And it does need a regular 8 volt battery, whch has to be replaced every few years.

I'm taking my car in to the shop tomorrow. The muffler strap rusted through. While they're fixing that, I'll have them check the undercarriage and if it looks good, I'll hang on to it, just keep it maintained. It might be the last car I own, getting close to retiring from driving

[flvegan]

59. I love the idea of hopefully buying an EV in the next few years.

I'm not worried about the battery tech, because it will be there shortly. I think the fed mandate is for EV batteries to be good for 8 years, and I think Kia/Hyundai warranties are 10 years, but only 100k miles. My concern is the grid. I have no idea if our grid can support a 60 or 70% conversion to EV. I have to assume that with any other progress, batteries will get to the point where they will get a full charge in just a few minutes before that needs to be a worry.

So, someone please build an EV Jeep Wrangler 392/Bronco Raptor type EV for under $70k please?

[Voltaire2]

62. It doesn't matter much if you fast charge or slow charge.

You are still going to draw approximately the same amount of power from the grid. If anything, people slow charging at home overnight levels out demand.

[Karma13612]

60. People who live in

Snowy and harsh weather areas will find they have to replace their EV* more often. Unless the vehicles are made of parts that don’t rot/rust/corrode from highway salt.



*compared to EV replacements in more temperate climates.

[Voltaire2]

61. That has nothing to do with batteries.

They are not exposed to weather. But yeah the body will wear out sooner, just like any other vehicle.

[JHB]

63. How much do you pay for gas over 8 years?

[Genki Hikari]

67. My husband's been working close to home for 5 years now

We've been averaging less than $500 a year in gasoline costs. Some years, it's been down to $250 or so.

We just don't drive all that much, because everything we need is so close to home--grocery shopping, post office, and--before COVID--shopping and entertainment. Rarely had to drive more than 5 miles once or twice a week. When we do go out, we almost always combine errands--get mail and groceries, one run. That sort of thing.

We also don't go to as many places since COVID. That's why I'm always miffed at having to drive 10 miles to my MD's office. If they'd put a clinic near our home, I'd drive even less than I do now!

[JHB]

69. That might actually be a factor. If you're using a car that little...

...would you still need to replace it in 8 (or whatever) years?

I think that comes from the number of discharge-recharge cycles a lithium-ion battery can go through before it loses... I'm not sure of the correct term... potency? With your usage you might go weeks, even months, before you need to recharge.

Your usage pattern is not the sort of pattern the 8 year figure is based on, so you'd need to do some more digging about battery life for "running errands, ~5-10 miles a week"-type use for the sorts of cars you might potentially buy, and see which ones might be a better fit.

[yardwork]

64. I've never had that problem.

I gave my 2011 Prius to my son. So far, the battery has never needed replacing. Maybe at some point, but by that time, it will be an old car.

[bif]

65. I have a 10-year old Lincoln hybrid

Which is old technology. And the battery has held up just fine. Granted, it's not a true EV, but still. I think battery technology has come a long way since then

[MineralMan]

66. How old is your current car?

How long do you keep cars?

[Genki Hikari]

68. I drive them until maintenance costs get close to a car payment

I've had my current car for 7 years now. Still has less than 100K on it.