General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA sizeable percentage of FBI employees felt sympathetic to those who stormed the Capitol
That's a FBI email.
Link to tweet
I was talking to an A/SSA in a "red state" office who was telling me that over 70% of his CT squad + roughly 75% of the agent population in his office, disagreed with the violence "but could understand where the frustration was coming from" which led to the "protestors getting carried away.
An analyst in "purple state" described watching horrified as the events were unfolding on the news, while several co-workers chalked up the insurgency as a "response to everyone being quarantined at home for months and more on edge, because so many lost their jobs and lack steady income because of COVID."
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)sop
(10,243 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)there is no conclusion to be had.
70% cause one guy heard from another one guy
?? Conclusive!??
What happened to liberals preferring evidence over fantasy?
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)CivicGrief
(147 posts)I knew a handful of cops growing up, and all but one were right-wing douchebags. To ignore that law enforcement predominantly draws people of a particular mindset is naive. The way J6 went down suggests there had to be insiders involved, and the cover-up afterwards conforms it. If this was a group of people not aligned with white supremacy and Republican "values," they would never have gotten near the Capitol, let alone breach it. Are you denying that or just this one email?
Scrivener7
(51,004 posts)This is someone who was high enough in the FBI hierarchy that he addresses the Deputy Director of the FBI as "hello, Paul." And Paul responds and thanks him for his observations within an hour.
The "conclusion to be had" is that this reported danger is worth looking into, and insurrectionist tendencies among FBI agents, if (when) found, should be addressed.
Given what we have learned since 1/6, that conclusion should have been drawn and that action taken with or without the existence of this email.
But putting our heads in the sand does not equal "preferring evidence over fantasy." It's the opposite.
I doubt the cops on the line on 1/6, who used their own bodies to hold off that mob, felt that way. When you make a general statement like this, especially when its about a group that included the only people who held off a mob from coming in and lynching members of our beloved House, it doesnt respect the cops who did not, and would not, ever hold that opinion, if the email is even correct.
I know a lot of cops, and not a single one of them thinks this was anything less than a destructive, illegal mob that had no qualms inflicting permanent and lifelong disabling injuries on those Capitol cops in the furtherance of their message, and who were intent on inflicting personal damage on House members if they had gotten past that line faster.
sop
(10,243 posts)And they refect the attitudes and beliefs of the majority of police departments across America: authoritarianism and reactionary conservatism.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The FOP endorsed the orange dipshit in both elections and has never issued one negative comment about him even after Jan 6.
NorCalBlue
(26 posts)And I do not believe that most cops are cult members.
I am a 60 yr old individual who never makes a wide judgement about anyone in any profession.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)But as someone who claims to know a lot of cops and doesn't know one that's a cult member suggests you really don't know that many. I know several and have never been in the profession and those are just the ones stupid enough to let everyone around them know how they feel.
NorCalBlue
(26 posts)And since you have used a rank, I will address you accordingly, I never said I didnt know a cop who was cultish. What I said was that the Officers I know, if faced with this mob, would have done their duty and would have acted similarly during the insurrection, and to lump them, or make broad statements, is not something I can do myself, Sir.
sop
(10,243 posts)"Hack exposes law enforcement officers who signed up to join anti-government Oath Keepers"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/02/oath-keepers-hack-exposes-law-enforcement-officers-across-us/5949281001/
I suspect very few (if any) teachers, nurses, mental health professionals, firemen or others who just want to "protect and serve" decided to throw in with a violent, extremist bunch like the Oath Keepers. So, yes, we can draw a number of conclusions about cops.
NorCalBlue
(26 posts)Because I read it. The hack revealed 21 active Law Enforcement Officers who joined. Additionally, 180 who were retired military and para-military. About 200 total out of almost 700,000 active Law Enforcement and that doesnt take into account the retired Officers.
I honestly try and stay away from broad generalizations because it keeps me from seeing the good in those that deserve it.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)claims that there should be no police at all!
It is surprising to see bigotry from the left, but you see it all the time. Claims that any given white cop would have shot the defendant if the defendant were black, as if that happens every time and every single white cop would do it given the chance. People who do not want to be arrested have the right to flee and be picked up "later." I guess when they give permission to be arrested. And the decision should be made with the cop, not the courts. Because the courts are "all corrupt."
Jedi Guy
(3,249 posts)I've previously pointed out that the rabid anti-police sentiment here on DU is remarkably similar to the lazy thought process that underpins racist ideology. This X did Y, therefore all X are Y. As you might imagine that observation drew quite a response.
And yes, thousands of people are arrested every day in the United States without incident or injury. Some of those people are minorities. But the arrests without incident draw no attention, generally. Why would they? "Person arrested without incident" isn't a headline that's going to attract eyeballs.
Sometimes people are injured or killed by officers attempting to arrest them who are required to use force to effect the arrest. Those incidents must be evaluated on an individual basis and the facts taken into account. Some uses of force are justified, some aren't. The shooting of Sean Reed is an example of the former, the shooting of Philando Castile is an example of the latter.
If the use of force wasn't objectively justifiable based on the facts, the officer should face consequences. If it was justifiable, they shouldn't. It really is that simple, and reasonable people can disagree over whether it was justified. But it sure seems like a lot of people around here take the position that it's never justified.
Unless, of course, we're talking about a use of force against an individual or group we don't like. Then it's okay.
no_hypocrisy
(46,184 posts)for having serious doubts about the TFG, yet in THIS report, a sizable number of FBI personnel had sympathy for the participants of the 1/6 Insurrection.
gab13by13
(21,402 posts)Cosmocat
(14,572 posts)and its why this country is doomed.
The MAJORITY of this country is either a full on right wing loon OR an active enabler of their lunacy.
certainot
(9,090 posts)for a large part of 2017 to 2020 when limbaugh was channeling the kremlin about the 'liberal deep state'.
a lot of cops and prob less FBI spend a lot of time in cars and media needs to try to find out how many of them are listening to RW radio
hadEnuf
(2,212 posts)has sure done its job.
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)the demographic that supplies the majority of FBI employees is conservative in general and white men in particular.
Freddie
(9,273 posts)As a new college graduate with a criminal Justice degree - from Liberty University. Yup.
DFW
(54,436 posts)Justice has nothing to do with it.
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)but not the white male part.
IronLionZion
(45,528 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)first, facts and verdict later.
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)Although these cases SHOULD be investigated further.
It wouldnt surprise me that SOME are "trumper" types, but not the majority. And as we saw in the video testimonies even most of those closest to trump; people HE had picked, had enough after 1/6 & resigned.
Scrivener7
(51,004 posts)truth in it because after all it's JUST HYSTERIA!!1! Cover your eyes, everyone! Just ignore it and move on! It's just one email!
Wait until there are thousands of armed morons storming the Capitol!
Again!
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)Twitter investigation! Gonna need more kennels tho.
Report back here!
Scrivener7
(51,004 posts)he addresses the Deputy Director as "Hello, Paul," and who Paul respected enough to thank within an hour for his observations should totally be ignored.
Because he's JUST BEING HYSTERICAL!!1! Because you can't trust everything posted on twitter!!!11! You should NOT check into this!!!1! Only inferior people believe EVERYTHING THEY READ ON TWITTER!!!21!
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)that is something that needs to be researched
gab13by13
(21,402 posts)including Alex Wagner last night. The letter, according to Frank Figliusi , appears to be from a retired FBI person, not an active FBI person.
With that said I do believe there are plenty of Magats working in law enforcement, including the FBI.
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)that, imo, means it came from outside the FBI, but obviously from someone who is familiar with and knows senior FBI management.
Kaleva
(36,342 posts)Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)just as intended.
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)2naSalit
(86,775 posts)Including all our institutions and agencies, against us.
They hate us for our freedom.
Cosmocat
(14,572 posts)these lunatics ...
Stage IV cancer.
Johnny2X2X
(19,114 posts)The FBI has virtually unassailable integrity as an institution before Trump came along, but he both overtly and covertly undermined that integrity. When he was President, we know he tried to order the FBI to go after his political opponents and also used his power to get them to not look into he and his regime's crimes. And more subtly by just creating doubt in our system and pushing conspiracy theories as a politician.
I am still not sure our democracy survives, Republicans do nothing but try to weaken our democracy at every level now.
DemUnleashed
(633 posts)Remember when Guiliani said something like there's going to be big news tomorrow, the day before Comey did his bombshell announcement about Hillary, like 10 days before the '16 election?? I think Guiliani even said he got the inside scoop from friends at the FBI that an announcement would be made the next day
These damn MAGAts are everywhere....in the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, lower courts, the military, the FBI, police departments throughout the country, in school boards, city councils, governors' offices, etc etc etc
pazzyanne
(6,556 posts)Scrivener7
(51,004 posts)anyone asked us.
I wonder if anything is being done about it. I WOULD be pleasantly surprised if anything was.
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)... make ideological a precondition for employment at the FBI? And whose ideology would be banned? Ours? I think not.
I would be unpleasantly disturbed if that was the case.
Scrivener7
(51,004 posts)What ideology would be banned? The one that thinks an armed insurrection against our Democracy is a good idea. The one that supports the subversion of the peaceful transition of power which is the bedrock of our Democracy.
Are you kidding me? You think we should just say, "ho hum, people disagree" and move on?
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)... of the normal range of opinion being expressed by around one third, maybe more, of the general public. None of it violated the oath of office. No one should be persecuted for expressing their own opinions.
And if we are to allow and support such persecution, it is more than likely that, ultimately, we would be the ones to be suppressed. Like the two FBI agents who were kicked out for being anti-TFG.
Joinfortmill
(14,456 posts)pazzyanne
(6,556 posts)reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)... and make it's decisions mandatory?
Gee, what could go wrong?
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)swearing to defend the Constitution. So those supporting the insurrectionists are violation their oath.
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts).... anyone had violated their oath of office.
And since the constitution protects the right to hold and express one's own opinions, it is hard to conceive of how actually doing so might be construed as a violation of that oath.
Cozmo
(1,402 posts)yardwork
(61,703 posts)Lonestarblue
(10,064 posts)The Republican elites have been trying to undo anything that benefits people other than themselves literally since the days of the Great Depression. Todays Republicans are simply descendants of those who contributed greatly to the Depression in the first place, harangued against anything Roosevelt tried to do to help people, and even plotted to overthrow his government.
Many of the laws passed during the New Deal were financial regulations that prevented wealthy Republicans from making the kinds of risky deals that led to the Depression. And they certainly hated Social Security because their businesses were required to help support it. Republican have been trying to undo everything created from the New Deal since.
Todays Republicans have one goal in mind: permanent rule by rich white Republicans where they have the power to force the laws and the country back to the conditions of the early 1920s before the Depression where they were the Robber Barons and essentially existed above the law. They have used every lie possible, infiltrated every government organization with their acolytes, and theyre very close to succeeding. The 2022 and 2024 elections are the last chance for democracy. I dont know that well keep it because the media is mostly on the side of the wealthy Republicans.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)Oathkeepers, 3%er, libertarian bents. Remember when Giuliani said NY was Trump land. They hired a lot of these zealots after 911. The anti-Hillary types, the followers of the fat cat higher ups.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,457 posts)If u are empathetic towards the Insurrectionist Deplorables get the fuck out of the US FBI. You serve the country, not a group intent on overthrowing that country.
sop
(10,243 posts)All of them were screaming and carrying signs proclaiming the "election was stolen." And when Republicans say "elections are stolen" what they really mean is blacks, browns and immigrants have the right to vote.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,457 posts)All good.
ecstatic
(32,731 posts)And we can thank Fox "News" and other right-wing rags for that. It's scary but not surprising that the FBI has many MAGA sympathizers. If the 70 to 75% estimate applies to the FBI overall then we are up shit's creek right now. And how many are in local police departments??
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Trump voters failed to uphold a sacred value we all count on. The people are supposed to put the rule of law, the constitution above any person, any belief, any political party. The Trump voters fell victim to propaganda and lost their way. they became Un-American.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)Emile
(22,912 posts)msfiddlestix
(7,286 posts)Not all those who make law enforcement their chosen careers, but it certainly attracts those who are inclined and diven to act out their fascissts fantasies.
Augiedog
(2,548 posts)msfiddlestix
(7,286 posts)this is a result from years and years of Republican appointed administrations.
I don't know if this could ever be fixable.
Joinfortmill
(14,456 posts)JohnSJ
(92,394 posts)control Congress
Duppers
(28,127 posts)GreenWave
(6,766 posts)MeNotThatKindOfOrc
(56 posts)It's like saying the FBI really was part of the insurrection like the MAGAs were claiming. It just seems sus, like it was meant to be more divisive. I know it came from a .gov site but did it?
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)To give it more authenticity.
But to me, that is suspect. It's not 1990 anymore.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)Are you saying you think fbi.gov was hacked, and that news stories have been written about this email, but that the FBI has not bothered to say "this was maliciously placed on our website"?
kentuck
(111,110 posts)A few years ago, it was reported how Guiliani was working with some of the FBI in his pursuit to make Trump president for life.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and they haven't really proved the point with this anecdotal evidence.
One does not qualify to be an FBI agent if the rule of law is not a thing, and an orange pretender's rule seems better.
ForgedCrank
(1,782 posts)the opinion that it shouldn't matter.
I see the real problem as being the concept that we as a society are migrating toward the idea that it is acceptable for authorities to base their decisions and actions on their personal beliefs rather than applying fairness of the law equally, and without of bias.
That applies to police, DOJ, FBI, judges, lawmakers, etc.
I feel the same way anytime I see someone suggest "packing the court" as some sort of solution to problems that exist for the very same reason. It is unacceptable, and conflicts directly with the system of laws we have designed to protect us from such shenanigans.
Whether we like it or not, all of this is completely dependent on the honor system and promises (oaths). And until we begin to severely punish authorities who do not apply fairness equally, this will continue to be a very serious problem.
If we have to go to court for some reason, the last thing we should have to worry about is who the judge voted for in the latest election, or who they may have donated money to.