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phylny

(8,428 posts)
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:19 PM Sep 2022

I hate hate hate so-called pro-lifers. I hate hate hate anti-choicers.

Our 30-year-old daughter has avoided possible disaster or death because we live in Virginia, where abortion care is legal (for now).

Over Labor Day weekend, our youngest daughter joyfully told us she and her husband were expecting. We were all overjoyed. Then she started spotting. Went to the doctor who ordered labs, and her HCG was within normal limits for how many weeks she was pregnant (about 5). Nothing could be seen on ultrasound.

Next week, continued to spot. Six weeks pregnant. Another HCG blood level - continued to rise. Nothing was seen on ultrasound. The doctor said he was hopeful the pregnancy would continue.

Long, long, long story short, more blood tests, more ultrasounds, and they assumed she had a pregnancy somewhere but couldn't see anything. Nothing was visible in the Fallopian tubes. Nothing in her uterus. They gave her a shot of methotrexate which would end the pregnancy since they knew there were embryonic cells still growing somewhere but not where it was supposed to be. HCG started going down, but very slowly.

Yesterday she had abdominal pain. She went to the ER, was admitted, and had another ultrasound which showed blood in her abdomen. She ended up having emergency surgery to remove an ectopic pregnancy and one Fallopian tube.

She was past the magical six-week mark. IF WE LIVED IN A STATE WHERE ABORTION WAS ILLEGAL SHE MIGHT BE DEAD.

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I hate hate hate so-called pro-lifers. I hate hate hate anti-choicers. (Original Post) phylny Sep 2022 OP
Glad she's ok ismnotwasm Sep 2022 #1
Oh my, how awful for your daughter FakeNoose Sep 2022 #2
Kick Diamond_Dog Sep 2022 #3
Thank Gawd - daughter's OK packman Sep 2022 #4
Hey Neighbor, I am in VA also. Heather MC Sep 2022 #5
K&R for visibility Blue Owl Sep 2022 #6
It amazes me that Abortion foes haven't thought the implications of their absolutism through. maxsolomon Sep 2022 #7
Abortion foes haven't thought because they do not think housecat Sep 2022 #8
for people who don't think they sure talk a lot maxsolomon Sep 2022 #12
It's the basic sadism of mainstream conservative politicians that's the problem here. jaxexpat Sep 2022 #24
It's not just that the forced birthers don't think. ShazzieB Sep 2022 #40
Their hatred for women overrides everything else. niyad Sep 2022 #43
but that's not a self-aware hatred. maxsolomon Sep 2022 #54
Report from fertility doctor, other MDs angry fearful for their patients CharleyDog Sep 2022 #9
I don't hate them. Snackshack Sep 2022 #10
Religion convinces otherwise good people to be evil Farmer-Rick Sep 2022 #30
Mr. Weinberg... Snackshack Sep 2022 #34
Ahhh, I did not know he had passed away Farmer-Rick Sep 2022 #39
Abortion politics is all about money Dorn Sep 2022 #11
Can you get this out to some established journalists? TeamProg Sep 2022 #13
She should save some eggs b4 her next try. IbogaProject Sep 2022 #14
I am so glad your daughter got appropriate treatment, & so sorry for the grief Hekate Sep 2022 #15
I believe that anyone who voted to keep someone from a life saving procedure, TNNurse Sep 2022 #16
Your daughter experienced what 1 in 50 pregnancies mnhtnbb Sep 2022 #17
What Republicans want wils3038 Sep 2022 #18
I'm so glad she's not. barbtries Sep 2022 #19
I don't say 'pro-life' anymore. I refer to them as anti-abortion fanatics. PatrickforB Sep 2022 #20
Woman-hating, theocratic, christofascist gestational slavers. I originally niyad Sep 2022 #44
I find 'forced birthers' to be the most accurate and effective label Celerity Sep 2022 #46
Good point. Forced birthers. Yep. n/t PatrickforB Sep 2022 #47
I call them murderers Genki Hikari Sep 2022 #53
Makes me wonder if Christofascists calculate when to set the time limits based on this NullTuples Sep 2022 #21
The 15-week cutoff is also cruel because some tests for fetal health and formation of vital Lonestarblue Sep 2022 #23
That's what I'm trying to say; thank you. None of their cutoff dates are by accident NullTuples Sep 2022 #31
And that crap about a heartbeat bill is such a lie Farmer-Rick Sep 2022 #33
McCarthy and a bunch of his old, white Republican male colleagues PatrickforB Sep 2022 #48
They've successfully moved the goalposts; life DOES begin at conception. But it is not a person yet. NullTuples Sep 2022 #49
I'm glad your daughter is ok, and I'm sorry for your loss. yardwork Sep 2022 #22
Yeah, might but almost certainly not. The progression toward diagnosis would have Hortensis Sep 2022 #25
😢 Demovictory9 Sep 2022 #26
K & R Stuart G Sep 2022 #27
A friend just told me Sunday Sepember 25 is National Daughters Day soldierant Sep 2022 #28
i'm so sorry your daughter went through this orleans Sep 2022 #29
Pregnancy (and human bodies) Mad_Machine76 Sep 2022 #32
Yeah, because it's bad law Farmer-Rick Sep 2022 #35
IMHO Mad_Machine76 Sep 2022 #36
Yeah, and doing it during a Democratic presidency Farmer-Rick Sep 2022 #37
Democratic Senator Bob Casey is pro-life; he is NOT anti-choice. brooklynite Sep 2022 #38
What does that mean? Elessar Zappa Sep 2022 #55
Correct, and more to the point won't impose his opinion on them legislatively. brooklynite Sep 2022 #56
Battle cry of this election: Roe your vote, up and down the ballot! Hermit-The-Prog Sep 2022 #41
I hate them, too. hamsterjill Sep 2022 #42
So very glad that your daughter was able to get the care she needed. vibes niyad Sep 2022 #45
So sorry Rebl2 Sep 2022 #50
Being pro forced pregnancy and childbirth isn't being the same as pro life dlk Sep 2022 #51
+1 Rebl2 Sep 2022 #52

FakeNoose

(33,844 posts)
2. Oh my, how awful for your daughter
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:26 PM
Sep 2022

I'm hoping she has a full recovery. Thanks for sharing this story. It's just further proof that it must be a private decision between the patient and her doctor. No one else has any reason to intrude.

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
4. Thank Gawd - daughter's OK
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:02 PM
Sep 2022

May I suggest you send this into your state reps to thank them for their support in saving your daughter's life.

 

Heather MC

(8,084 posts)
5. Hey Neighbor, I am in VA also.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:19 PM
Sep 2022

How's your daughter?
When she is ready, if she is ready to try again, recommend that she UPS her fruits and vegetables and drinks clean water.

And tell her not to be afraid to try again when her heart is ready💜💜💜

And I know you're doing this because you're a good mommy, but make sure everybody around her allows her to grieve. Losing the baby you want is never ever ever ever easy no matter what stayed your process your end in the pregnancy.

maxsolomon

(33,771 posts)
7. It amazes me that Abortion foes haven't thought the implications of their absolutism through.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:22 PM
Sep 2022

this is an abortion, and it kills that embryo, and that is an easy choice. there is no other option.

but this "exception" (i think there are plenty of these types of exceptions) doesn't factor in to their binary definitions. or policy.

get well soon.

maxsolomon

(33,771 posts)
12. for people who don't think they sure talk a lot
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:41 PM
Sep 2022

all those celibates giving pro-life homilies every sunday believe they've thought about it.

jaxexpat

(7,178 posts)
24. It's the basic sadism of mainstream conservative politicians that's the problem here.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:58 PM
Sep 2022

I certainly appreciate the OP's hatred of these self-righteous, twit-witted, do-gooder life bandits but I think the true spear sharpeners are ambitious Republican politicians. Those characters see nothing but binary solutions because they're incapable of understanding anything beyond their binary world. Immune to education but they test well, you see.

ShazzieB

(17,196 posts)
40. It's not just that the forced birthers don't think.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 08:06 PM
Sep 2022

They assume that there's nothing to think about. To them, it's a cut and dried issue. Most forced birthers believe the following 3 things, or some combination thereof:

1. Abortion = "killing babies" = bad (actually, they all believe this)
2. The only reason women have abortions is to avoid having babies they don't want to have.
3. The only women who want to have abortions are those who want to have sex without any "consequences" (i.e., babies they don't want to have).

They know some women will be "inconvenienced" if they are not able to terminate unwanted pregnancies, but they don't see being forced to carry to term and birth an unwanted child as anything more than that: an inconvenience. And since everyone knows how babies get made (sex!) how to avoid getting pregnant (don't have sex!), you shouldn't be having sex if you don't want to be pregnant. Then there's the part they don't usually say out loud: if you have sex and aren't willing to accept the "consequences" (i.e., pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood), well, that's just too bad. "You could have just kept your legs together, you slutty slut, but you didn't, so now you have to pay the piper!"

It doesn't even occur to them that there might be anything else to consider. Pregnancy and having babies are common, every day occurrences, and most people outside the medical profession have absolutely no clue how many things can go wrong in a myriad of ways. It doesn't even occur to them that there might be anything else they need to know.

And so the forced birther politicians end up making laws that are completely divorced from reality and lead to all kinds of nightmare situations like the ones we've been reading about since Alito and his merry band of makevolent misogynists struck down Roe. And we get state legislators who are shocked (shocked, I tell you!) to learn about the nightmare scenarios they've created.

If I rolled my eyes hard enough to express what I think of the chowderheaded dimwits who make these awful draconian laws, they'd get stuck and I'd have to spend the rest of my life looking at my own brain, so I'll just close with a few of these:

maxsolomon

(33,771 posts)
54. but that's not a self-aware hatred.
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 07:48 PM
Sep 2022

at least on the part of the millions of RTL women in America.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
10. I don't hate them.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:31 PM
Sep 2022

…but I have zero respect for them. None I have ever met has spent a minute at being any type of big brother, big sister or foster parent. Growing up as ward of the state of California the first few years of my life none of these folks ever showed even a passing interest at doing anything to improve any orphans life.

They yell and scream and stomp their feet about a fetus but vanish the second after birth. They will gladly consign a woman to death to further their misguided dogmas. Because it costs nothing to be anti choice and everything if they actually cared.

I am in my 5th decade and I can say without hesitation religion is one of the worst inventions humans have contrived too smooth their vanity (this can’t be all there is I’m too special there must be more after this) or weakness, one should not need to be feared into being a decent person with burning for eternity.

Farmer-Rick

(10,539 posts)
30. Religion convinces otherwise good people to be evil
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 04:33 PM
Sep 2022

It is a destructive force in the world. The religious followers pretend to be charitable but they are so easily manipulated by evil. If there was such a thing as a devil, it would have invented religion to introduce evil to the world.

American theoretical physicist and Nobel laureate, Steven Weinberg once famously said, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."

https://m.economictimes.com/opinion/vedanta/two-good-reasons/articleshow/11299834.cms

Dorn

(537 posts)
11. Abortion politics is all about money
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:32 PM
Sep 2022

* Sorry to hear of your daughter's ectopic pregnancy
* Rich people will always be able to get any kind of medical treatment they want
* All medical care must be 100% free for everyone
* Since the ruling it is much clearer that abortions are not a choice: they are part of standard, normal, required health care
* Hating doesn't help

 

TeamProg

(6,630 posts)
13. Can you get this out to some established journalists?
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:49 PM
Sep 2022

Perhaps bring greater attention to these dangers within forced the birth states?

IbogaProject

(3,017 posts)
14. She should save some eggs b4 her next try.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:56 PM
Sep 2022

I'm taking a guess that ivf might be an option if her other tube gets damages if she saves some eggs now. Many states require health insurance to cover fertility treatments for trying for1st and 2nd child up to ago 40 or 42.

Hekate

(92,259 posts)
15. I am so glad your daughter got appropriate treatment, & so sorry for the grief
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:05 PM
Sep 2022

I agree with you about the forced-birthers. They are fanatics who don’t give a damn about anyone’s life.

TNNurse

(6,988 posts)
16. I believe that anyone who voted to keep someone from a life saving procedure,
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:10 PM
Sep 2022

should be charged with practicing medicine without a license and also maybe manslaughter if the woman does not survive.

mnhtnbb

(31,577 posts)
17. Your daughter experienced what 1 in 50 pregnancies
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:17 PM
Sep 2022

result in: ectopic pregnancy. I am so sorry for her loss--and yours--and the fear you all experienced.

Ectopic pregnancy rate is about 2%. In 2020 there were 3.6 million live births in the US and over 900,000 abortions, which would mean about 90,000 ectopic pregnancies.

Forced birthers don't care about those women. They just don't care.

For stats on the US birth rate

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57003722

Abortion statistics

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/

wils3038

(13 posts)
18. What Republicans want
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:26 PM
Sep 2022

What happened in Iran where the police beat a young woman to death for not wearing a head scarf is exactly what Republicans want here in America.

barbtries

(28,917 posts)
19. I'm so glad she's not.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:27 PM
Sep 2022

A woman close to my family was pregnant last year: happy, looking forward to it. At the anatomy scan they got the unthinkable news that their daughter had a condition which was incompatible with life. She had to make the decision whether to continue or terminate the pregnancy. She made what I believe to be the best decision, and like your daughter, fortunately in a state that allowed the termination.

All that's gonna change if republicans gain any more power than they currently have. We're in NC and it's very likely that the rights we now have will go away soon, because republicans have a gerrymandered lock on this state.

My ex-DIL had an ectopic pregnancy requiring emergency surgery. Her symptoms began with pain that was so bad she literally passed out. She could have died. Didn't know she was pregnant.

she did go on to have a healthy pregnancy after this happened. I just say that to hopefully give some hope and comfort to your daughter - I am so sorry for your loss, so happy that she is okay.

PatrickforB

(14,673 posts)
20. I don't say 'pro-life' anymore. I refer to them as anti-abortion fanatics.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:38 PM
Sep 2022

Because let's tell it like it is. These people want to jam their religious ideology down the rest of our throats at the expense of our wives, daughters and granddaughters' very lives.

Allowing a human being like your daughter to die because her ectopic pregnancy wasn't detected until after six weeks is odious, immoral, and fanatical. Evil.

niyad

(115,773 posts)
44. Woman-hating, theocratic, christofascist gestational slavers. I originally
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 09:50 AM
Sep 2022

(back in the '70's), called them anti-choice woman-haters.

Celerity

(45,067 posts)
46. I find 'forced birthers' to be the most accurate and effective label
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 09:57 AM
Sep 2022

'anti-abortion' as a label automatically sets ups a problematic dialectic in people's minds that you must then be 'pro-abortion' (and not simply pro choice)

As a female (and if I was a male as well, or neither gender too), I am not pro-abortion, I am pro RIGHT to an abortion if that is a woman decides to do.

 

Genki Hikari

(1,766 posts)
53. I call them murderers
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 07:03 PM
Sep 2022

Because it's what they are.

They hate women who have sex, and they are perfectly willing to kill any who dare to have it without popping out little brats everywhere, preferably blond-haired white ones.

They will be in for a huge shock when their polices result in an acceleration of brown babies being born (because they have abortions, too, that you just took from them, too).

And just wait for the wailing they'll do when they get the tax bill for the massive orphanages we'll have to build to house all the unwanted babies because there won't be enough people to adopt the surge of new births. There aren't enough people now to adopt all the unwanted kids, and they "think" making more of them will improve that situation? What do they think will happen to all the kids born from this? That some magic fairy will come along and house, feed, clothe and educate them for free?

They never think through these things because they are stupid, and, worse, they're too stupid to see how they are the cause of all the human misery and devastation born of their stupid.

Carlo Cipolla was right: Stupidity is the root of all evil.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
21. Makes me wonder if Christofascists calculate when to set the time limits based on this
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:38 PM
Sep 2022

I'm sure there are stats as to when pregnancies fails & when it's noticed and medical care is necessitated, and they choose cutoffs just on the other side of that date range. They seem to be that intentionally cruel and uncaring, so long as it garners them more power.

Lonestarblue

(10,713 posts)
23. The 15-week cutoff is also cruel because some tests for fetal health and formation of vital
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:49 PM
Sep 2022

organs cannot be done until around 20 weeks, so those women who have an unviable fetus would still have a carry a baby they know will die at birth or will be severely impaired for several more months, thus jeopardizing her own physical and emotional health. The cruelty of the forced birthers is astonishing.

Farmer-Rick

(10,539 posts)
33. And that crap about a heartbeat bill is such a lie
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 05:03 PM
Sep 2022

"It’s not until around 17 to 20 weeks, when the four chambers of the heart have developed and can be detected on an ultrasound, that the term heartbeat is accurate, according to ACOG. (American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology)"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna24435

But the religiously insane want us all to believe a fluttering tube of an embryo amplified by medical equipment is a heartbeat. It has gill slits on the side of its head with a fish tale and yolk sac at 6 weeks when the religiously insane think it magically takes priority over the life of the mother.

PatrickforB

(14,673 posts)
48. McCarthy and a bunch of his old, white Republican male colleagues
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 10:11 AM
Sep 2022

want to enact legislation that declares that life begins at fertilization. Talk about going back to the dark ages!

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
49. They've successfully moved the goalposts; life DOES begin at conception. But it is not a person yet.
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 10:45 AM
Sep 2022

By shifting verbal shorthand they've set it up so they can "prove" life begins at conception. They've been playing 3-card Monty with their rhetoric.

The problem for them has always been that until quite near birth, there is nobody home inside the human brain. We now know that's because until that stage of fetal brain development, there simply is not the capacity for organized signals. It's more like a room full of spools of cable rather than a computer network. And in humans and other animals with complex brains, the individual exists in the brain. Our consciousness exists in the brain. But not until it has made a sufficient number of connections between neurons - and this is key - and then pruned them so that organized signaling is possible.

Christian extremists used to depend on their belief in a "soul" to determine when a fetus became a person. Problem is, that's a matter of personal opinion, not fact. It was a weak arguing point outside of their subculture. Now though, they've shifted the language so that people talk about when "life" begins. A single cell bacteria is life. A mushroom is life. As is a human fetus. None of them are a person though.

yardwork

(62,325 posts)
22. I'm glad your daughter is ok, and I'm sorry for your loss.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:41 PM
Sep 2022

One of the cruelest aspects of these horrific laws are how they pretend to negate people's real feelings of loss. Nobody wants an ectopic pregnancy. Your daughter and your family wanted the baby. Thank goodness your daughter was able to obtain care.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Yeah, might but almost certainly not. The progression toward diagnosis would have
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 04:10 PM
Sep 2022

been handled somewhat differently because of that. At least I hope some people in the chain of decisions would have had the required basic good sense.

It's also likely that a lot of local OBGs and hospitals will have had time now to adjust practices to meet the new realities. People will be discussing their experiences on social media. OBG issues and emergencies didn't just stop last June, after all.

Btw, when intense emotional reaction is uncontrollable, maybe direct it toward something positive? Like donations to those who do good? Our job is to STOP those who believe hating others excuses anything they do.

Best wishes that you all will have that precious new life in your lives soon.

soldierant

(7,349 posts)
28. A friend just told me Sunday Sepember 25 is National Daughters Day
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 04:28 PM
Sep 2022

I'll bet you are going to be celebrating it like crazy.

Mad_Machine76

(24,628 posts)
32. Pregnancy (and human bodies)
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 04:52 PM
Sep 2022

are just too complicated for anti-choice laws to not harm or kill pregnant people. Period. And nobody should be forced to accept a pregnancy they don't want either. And pregnant people in anti-choice states are the same as those in pro-choice states. Alito, et. al would have us believe that modern civil rights laws have eliminated any barriers for women (totally excluding Trans men or non-binary persons), so that abortions shouldn't even be necessary. The illogic of the Dobbs "decision" will (hopefully) have legal historians puzzling over it for centuries.

Farmer-Rick

(10,539 posts)
35. Yeah, because it's bad law
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 05:06 PM
Sep 2022

It's law created by religiously insane judges. Legislation from the bench is frequently incoherent.

Mad_Machine76

(24,628 posts)
36. IMHO
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 05:12 PM
Sep 2022

nobody who looks at their decision can come to no other conclusion than SCOTUS wanted this result and twisted themselves into pretzel knots in order to justify it (very reminiscent of the Iraq War and "fixing the intelligence" ). They had a case, they had the votes to do it, and they decided to go for it. End of line.

Farmer-Rick

(10,539 posts)
37. Yeah, and doing it during a Democratic presidency
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 07:03 PM
Sep 2022

Makes them look invincible.

Let's hope it enrages enough intelligent people to come out and vote against the people who appointed them.

Elessar Zappa

(14,563 posts)
55. What does that mean?
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 07:55 PM
Sep 2022

I assume that means that he’s personally against abortion but believes it’s the woman’s choice?

Hermit-The-Prog

(34,815 posts)
41. Battle cry of this election: Roe your vote, up and down the ballot!
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 10:42 PM
Sep 2022

Roe, Roe, Roe your vote
against theocracy!
Republicans revoke your rights
and kill democracy!

THESE are the races that will determine control of the House of Representatives:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217175231

Stick 'em up for a blue wave: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217078977

hamsterjill

(15,291 posts)
42. I hate them, too.
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 12:08 AM
Sep 2022

First, thank goodness your daughter was able to get the treatment she needed.

Pregnancy should be a private matter and no one else’s business, whether continued or discontinued. Private. End of story.

niyad

(115,773 posts)
45. So very glad that your daughter was able to get the care she needed. vibes
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 09:52 AM
Sep 2022

for complete recovery and healing.

Like you, I hate them, because they would just as soon see us all dead.

Rebl2

(13,945 posts)
50. So sorry
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 11:21 AM
Sep 2022

to hear of her experience. Fortunately they caught it in time, but barely it sounds like. You are certainly correct that in some states she likely would die. I cannot tolerate or have any respect for these people who are making these laws putting women’s lives in danger. It is nobody’s business but the woman, her doctor, and who she chooses to tell.

dlk

(11,836 posts)
51. Being pro forced pregnancy and childbirth isn't being the same as pro life
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 01:00 PM
Sep 2022

It should be called out every time. Being able to make personal medical decisions without political interference is pro-freedom.

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