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H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 07:42 PM Aug 2022

An American Prayer (& thoughts)

"Is everybody in?
Is everybody in?
Is everybody in?
The ceremony is about to begin."
-- Jim Morrison


A couple community members have pointed out something very important about the redacted affidavid. This is interesting in the context of the DOJ and the judge using care to redact information on those individuals who are witnesses, or who are not being investigated for potential criminal prosecution. Thus, the names of current members of the Trump cult stand out.

Trump is mentioned on page 1 of the affidavit. Kash Cocoran is found on page 19:

"53. I am aware of an at1icle published in Breitbart on May 5, 2022, available at
https://www.breitbart.comvoliticsi2022i05/05/documents-mar-a-lago-marked-classified-wereah-eadv-declassifi.ed-kash-patel-savs/, which states that Kash Patel, who is desc1ibed as a former top FPOTUS administration official, characterized as ''misleading" reports in other news organizations that NARA had found classified materials among records that FPOTUS provided to NARA from Mar-a-Lago. Patel alleged that such repot1s were misleading because FPOTUS had declassified the materials at issue."

Now, I could be wrong, but the FBI was aware that that not only had Kash incorrectly claimed that Trump had declassified all of the documents, but he was threatening to publish them on the internet. As noted below, this threat was being made in the run-up to the warrant:
https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

"Can we resolve the past
Lurking jaws, joints of time?
The Base
To come of age in a dry place
Holes and caves." -- Morrison

Call it speculation, but I doubt Patel is getting a good night's sleep tonight. Now let's consider Evab Corcoran. His letter to the DOJ is included as Exhibit 1 (pages 1-3). Again, call it speculation, but I think he likely regrets signing this letter. As Example One, please read this, the third paragraph of this legal document:

"There have been public reports about an investigation by DOJ into Presidential Records purportedly marked as classified among materials that were once in the White House and unknowingly included among the boxes brought to Mar-a-Lago by the movers. It is important to emphasize that when a request was made for the documents by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), President Trump readily and voluntarily agreed to their transfer to NARA. The communications regarding the transfer of boxes to NARA were friendly, open, and straightforward. President Trump voluntarily ordered that the boxes be provided to NARA. No legal objection was asserted about the transfer. No concerns were raised about the contents of the boxes. It was a voluntary and open process. "

Gracious! And if he regrets saying that, he will experience remorse for including this:

"The official policy ofDOJ further requires that prosecutors present exculpatory evidence to a grand jury. Pursuant to that policy, we request that DOJ provide this letter to any grand jury considering evidence in connection with this matter, or any grand jury asked to issue a subpoena for testimony or documents in connection with this matter."

I'm sure that those serving on the grand jury will find that interesting. They will know that as soon as they learned they needed to return the documents to NARA, they had an opportunity to put this to bed. But they refused, and so NARA referred the case to the DOJ. After a period of time, some boxes of documents were returned. Among these, the FBI found:

"4 7. From May 16-18, 2022, FBI agents conducted a prelimina1y review of the FIFTEEN BOXES provided to NARA and identified documents with classification markings in fourteen of the FIFTEEN BOXES. A prelin1ina1y triage of the documents with classification markings revealed the following approximate numbers: 184 unique docmnents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET. Fm1her, the FBI agents observed markings reflecting the following compa11ments/dissemination controls: HCS, FISA, ORCON, NOFORN, and SI. Based on my training and experience, I know that documents classified at these levels typically contain NDI. Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS 's handwritten notes. " (page 17)

However, from a variety of sources, the FBI learned that there were still numerous important documents missing. Keep in mind that NARA (National Archives and Records Administration) does not have a notorious reputation as being "political," at least not beyond filing and keeping track of documents. And that included the ability to know for certain which documents were not returned. And the DOJ knew that just as Patel might publish some, Trump would likely destroy others. They were aware it was reported he had done this before, while in the White House.

NARA can identify who removed what documents. The FBI and federal prosecutors investigating this know a heck of a lot more than is included in the affidavit, even in its unredacted form. And so do the members of a federal grand jury.

"Thoughts in time and out of season
The Hitchhiker
Stood by the side of the road
And leveled his thumb
In the calm calculus of reason" -- Morrison

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
An American Prayer (& thoughts) (Original Post) H2O Man Aug 2022 OP
I wonder if they have backup copies of the missing documents. If they do, justhanginon Aug 2022 #1
Anything is possible, H2O Man Aug 2022 #3
I think a lot of people will not sleep well tonight or many livetohike Aug 2022 #2
Yes! H2O Man Aug 2022 #4
kr Me. Aug 2022 #5
Thank you! H2O Man Aug 2022 #7
Your Excellent Manners Compel Me Me. Aug 2022 #13
And how do you think H2O Man Aug 2022 #14
I THink Any Form Of Reason Divorced Him Long Ago Me. Aug 2022 #15
It makes me wonder H2O Man Aug 2022 #16
Jared Is As Big A Criminial As tfg Me. Aug 2022 #17
I think that H2O Man Aug 2022 #19
"THey WEnt To Jared" Me. Aug 2022 #21
Acronyms decoded Saoirse9 Aug 2022 #6
Very good! H2O Man Aug 2022 #8
I still believe the informant Saoirse9 Aug 2022 #10
It's hard to say! H2O Man Aug 2022 #12
Thanks. Easterncedar Aug 2022 #9
Oh you're welcome! n/t Saoirse9 Aug 2022 #11
This Is The End Kid Berwyn Aug 2022 #18
I kept waking H2O Man Aug 2022 #20

justhanginon

(3,295 posts)
1. I wonder if they have backup copies of the missing documents. If they do,
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 07:57 PM
Aug 2022

if they do, they might provide an insight into why they are now missing and who would benefit.

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
3. Anything is possible,
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:18 PM
Aug 2022

excepting only any possibility that serious crimes were committed. I think that NARA knows exactly what was taken out, and what has been returned. This would include, for example, if someone took them out to bring to the Oval Office. I imagine at least one person who fetched them for Trump has told the authorities.

livetohike

(22,230 posts)
2. I think a lot of people will not sleep well tonight or many
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:09 PM
Aug 2022

nights. All of those who pinned their hopes and dreams on worshipping Trump have got to be thinking about how serious this is. Many of them are lawyers. They have to know what is going on here.

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
4. Yes!
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:21 PM
Aug 2022

I like to think how paranoid Trump must be right now. It was reported shortly after the FBI exercised the warrant that Trump was asking, "Who is wearing a wire?" He has surely become more anxious about this, since someone told the FBI he had documents in his bedroom.

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
14. And how do you think
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 10:40 PM
Aug 2022

that Trump is doing tonight? I've heard that he is again splattering posts on his web site. I've only heard a couple of them. But I think those at around 3:17 am/est -- when the only person willing to talk with him on the phone is son Eric -- that the most unhinged things get posted.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
15. I THink Any Form Of Reason Divorced Him Long Ago
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 10:44 PM
Aug 2022

His web-site is 1.6 mil in arrears.How long do you think they will carry him?

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
16. It makes me wonder
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 10:48 PM
Aug 2022

if he thought Jared would pay that bill from the generous tip the Saudi "prince" gave him?

Me.

(35,454 posts)
17. Jared Is As Big A Criminial As tfg
Sat Aug 27, 2022, 09:25 AM
Aug 2022

where does anyone think he got the names he gave to msb? Many of which were executed, though not as gruesomely as Kashoggi. THey say they are checking for fingerprints, will his be there too?

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
19. I think that
Sat Aug 27, 2022, 10:49 AM
Aug 2022

the Intelligence Community did not like when Trump granted Jared the status to view classified mterials. He certainly would not have qualified, were he not the president's son-in-law. I think that Jared views MSB like Trump views Putin.

Saoirse9

(3,703 posts)
6. Acronyms decoded
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:25 PM
Aug 2022

I've been reading these acronyms all day. So I decided to define them for myself because I found them confusing. I googled them all.

HCS -- (HUMINT Control System) HUMINT means Human Intelligence and refers to the government systems used to protect intelligence gathered from secret human sources. Documents marked HUMINT may contain the identities of spies, as well as information obtained from them.

FISA -- (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) means information, also concerning communications intercepts, processed through the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court.

ORCON -- (Offline Reconstruction Conditions Database Online). Originator-Controlled, meaning that dissemination—even within the government, even to officials who hold Top Secret clearances—must first be approved by the originator (for instance, the CIA, if the document originated with the CIA).

NOFORN -- (Not For Release to Foreign Nationals). Means that the document cannot be released to foreign governments or citizens.

SI -- (Special Intelligence) technical and intelligence information derived from the monitoring of foreign communications signals by other than the intended recipients. Under the purview of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), the SI control system protects SI-derived information and information relating to SI activities, capabilities, techniques, process and procedures.

NDI -- (National Defense Information) defense, industrial, and military emergency energy requirements relative to national safety, welfare and the economy, relating to foreign military or economic actions.

Now I am bookmarking this thread so I can refer back to it LOL.

One last Acronym:
FPOTUS -- Fucked Former President of the United States

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
8. Very good!
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:41 PM
Aug 2022

I think that Trump knows he is fucked. He sees "enemies" all around him, and doesn't know who to trust. And that might include a damily member. Oh, dear!

Saoirse9

(3,703 posts)
10. I still believe the informant
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 08:52 PM
Aug 2022

was secret service.

I can’t see Ivanka snitching on her Dad. The boys aren’t smart enough to do it.

Melanie wants to keep the gravy train going.

Nope not family. Has to be a secret service who recognized top secret docs and maybe overheard what TFG meant to do with them, or had already done with them.

Not the older kids. Not Melanie.

Maybe Ivana! Or Tiffany.

But I think secret service or Mark Meadows.

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
12. It's hard to say!
Fri Aug 26, 2022, 09:00 PM
Aug 2022

Might be a lawyer. Stranger things have been known to happen -- such as a former president stealing documents.

I could see Trump telling Meadows to fetch some documents for him to read in his bed room. And Meadow's legal team has surely told him what his best option and worst option are. Cooperate, or face incarceration.

Kid Berwyn

(15,610 posts)
18. This Is The End
Sat Aug 27, 2022, 09:38 AM
Aug 2022

Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free



The GULAG will seem but a picnic for what’s in store for the dip.

H2O Man

(73,997 posts)
20. I kept waking
Sat Aug 27, 2022, 10:54 AM
Aug 2022

up throughout the night. I found myself checking the news, to see reports on what Trump was posting on his site. It was as expected. I also noticed that while a couple republicans from the House were saying things in support of Trump, none of the big names in their party were saying the affidavit helps Trump.

And this morning -- thanks to you! -- I have the "Apocalypse Now" version of "The End" playing in my mind! Much appreciated, as it fits perfectly!

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