Unless it is discovered that Trump sold or bartered these documents to other countries or leaders...

[kentuck]

Then he will not be charged with espionage and the investigation will continue behind the scenes while the January 6th investigation proceeds on its course.

The obstruction of justice is a serious charge. When he did not turn over the documents when he was told to do so with a subpoena, that will be a tough charge to overlook.

It is on a par with the obstruction of justice when conspiring to stop the electoral votes on January 6th? Maybe they can combine the obstruction charges?

From my perspective, that is the least of charges that he could be convicted for.

Of course, there are some very serious charges that will have to be adjudicated.

[Irish_Dem]

1. We have a multi-tiered justice system and Trump is in the highest of brackets.

I am waiting to see what crime is bad enough to trigger an indictment for someone at the highest elite level.

To date, we do not have an answer to that question.

[kentuck]

2. We shall see...

and we will know.

[Irish_Dem]

7. Yep exactly. Time will tell. Trump was in the untouchable bracket of justice.

But my theory is that the GOP is no longer protecting Trump.

Many US presidents had secrets, some of them quite serious.
And those secrets were carefully covered up.

It is possible that Trump may no longer be in the untouchable bracket of justice.

I think chances of indictment went from zero, to maybe 10%.

[Chainfire]

23. I am not sure that the Republicans don't have to continuing to support him.

Otherwise they would have to admit how wrong that they have been in the past. They have to keep the 30% of nuts voting for them or they lose everything.

[kentuck]

24. He may be a lying, thieving, crooked, Mafia SOB but...

He's ours, they say.

[Irish_Dem]

26. The GOP can pretend to support Trump in public. Blame everything on the Dems.

But behind the scenes they are done protecting Trump from himself.
He has become a major liability and destroying the GOP brand and costing votes.

McConnell and the GOP oligarchs want Trump gone.
That is apparent.

I think they are working on decreasing MAGA support of Trump.
Between the J6 committee and the espionage fiasco, they are doing a great job.

[kentuck]

31. They built the MAGA monster...

...and it is not going to be so easy to destroy.

[Irish_Dem]

33. Exactly, but they are doing their darnedest to bring him down.

The GOP ran the J6 committee and presented GOP witnesses.
GOP head of FBI coming after Trump.

In a way bringing down Trump is not going to be that hard.
He is walking criminal enterprise, a loose cannon and not smart.

All the GOP elite have to do is stop protecting him and the rest will take care of itself.

[kentuck]

34. Yep. The "old" GOP would like for him to just disappear....

..but they cannot pry his base away from him. And so long as he controls their "base", he controls their Party.

[Irish_Dem]

37. Trump's control of the party is what the GOP elite hate the most.

Trump is costing the GOP elite and oligarchs time, money, votes.
There is damage to their hold on power.

The GOP elite has to do a number of things.

They have to make Trump go away and keep his mouth shut.
Stop trying to burn down the country.

And they have to get the base to disown Trump.
I think they are working on that. It is a combination of drip, drip and bold punches.

All the GOP witnesses who came forward in J6 committee.
None of the usual attack dogs barking like Cruz, Hawley, Gaetz and Jordan.

No longer covering up and protecting Trump.
FBI raid conducted by the GOP FBI director, made public, talk of espionage.

The GOP elite is peeling off Trump's MAGA base one by one.

[jmbar2]

3. Trump operates like mafia

He will have underlings do the dirty deeds, leaving little trace back to himself. Until they turn on him.

His ability to enforce loyalty is evaporating minute by minute.

[Demsrule86]

6. The evidence was at his house and in his safe do no, this is a BFD,

[jmbar2]

10. It is a huge deal

And he has thousands of minions dragged into his schemes. It will take at least a decade to clean up this hit on America.

[Demsrule86]

4. This is huge and this is how Trump goes down. He did this and while we all knowheisinvolved in 1/6

It will be difficult to prove. This is something that will be his fault period.

[bucolic_frolic]

5. I would bet DOJ knows exactly what he did and didn't do with the documents

and that they have the goods. If they didn't, they would have let it run longer until they did.

[kentuck]

8. If he sold them to a third party...

...it is curtains.

[Firestorm49]

17. Wouldn't you feel that given his sordid history of attempting to destroy our democracy that

his lines of communication were heavily monitored by all kinds of three initial agencies? I sure as shit hope so. We all need to believe that someone out there was monitoring the fool.

[kentuck]

25. Normally, that would be the case...

But he took control of those agencies early on, and put his people in charge so that did not happen.

[GoodRaisin]

43. My guess would be that these records have already been copied over and over.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Or that he attempted to or arranged to sell/barter the documents? Isn't that still espionage?

[Firestorm49]

11. What is surprising to me is that lawyers are still willing to work for him.

I also can’t help but wonder if they think that they’re really going to get paid. Maybe they will need to pad the bill up enough so that when the Stupid One tries to screw them, they’ll have enough of a cushion already built in to their fees. The whole world knows how tight the old fool is with his money.

What damage will be inflicted on Drew Findley’s law firm as more and more corruption charges diminishes his ability to defend the indefensible?

Yes kids, the best is yet to come and I can’t wait to watch him (TFG) squirm in defeat. Maybe the Russians will smuggle him out of here before he hopefully gets a lengthy jail sentence.

[2naSalit]

12. There's a lot more to the Espionage Act...

Than just selling secrets to someone. Just having such docs in your possession outside of a SCIF is enough to convict. And there's a whole lot in between.

[TheBeam19]

13. This is correct.

[Firestorm49]

19. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[EndlessWire]

40. You are correct.

He'll really have to engage the SC to help him get out of it. Just saying that he declassified everything is not enough. That is a process unto itself, which he did not follow. If you didn't do the paperwork, it isn't done. He's in a world of hurt. Good.

[RKP5637]

14. To me, there are a lot more people than Trump involved. Those that allowed the docs to leave, then

what was done with them, and who are the recipients. For all we know, the purpose of the docs being there might have been already completed, and copies of the docs already distributed to intended parties, whatever, with possibly a cash trail back to Trump, Inc. ... or whomever.

[kentuck]

27. I think you are right.

The three closest to Trump were Rudy, Jared, and Ivanka. Bannon and Stone were closest advisers.

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. False- simple possession of NDI is enough to violate 18 USC 793 (Espionage Act)

Which covers the “gathering, transmission, or losing” of NDI, regardless of classification.

Trump was guilty of at least “gathering” NDI documents.

NDI = National Defense Information

[Deep State Witch]

38. Remember This Guy?

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/28/707742550/former-nsa-contractor-pleads-guilty-to-stealing-classified-information

A former contractor who federal prosecutors said spent years stealing troves of classified information from the National Security Agency and the Department of Defense pleaded guilty on Thursday.

Harold Martin, a 54-year-old Navy veteran from Glen Burnie, Md., admitted to willfully stealing and retaining government documents from about 1996 until 2016, the year he was arrested.

A raid of his home uncovered 10 firearms, which his wife was unaware of, and an estimated 50 terabytes of information. Martin even kept pilfered papers and electronic documents in his vehicle, according to prosecutors.

The information contained in those files, from gaps in U.S. military capabilities to CIA intelligence collection sources, could cause grave harm to U.S. national security.

He was indicted on 20 counts in 2017.

[njhoneybadger]

16. Unfortunately, I believe you are correct.

[2naSalit]

20. Guilt of violation has already been proved...

When those docs were found outside a SCIF and in his possession.

Read up on the Espionage Act, when it comes to gov't belongings, it doesn't take much. And it isn't like there isn't a lot of training on handling such info before, during and after clearance is given.

[kentuck]

29. That's the general rule...

...but I think the general expectation is that they would make an exception for the former president because of extenuating circumstances, unless he sold them to a third party. That would be the red line, imo.

[2naSalit]

41. I think they'll...

Go for it since this is such an egregious offense, doesn't matter who it is. I'm starting to see signs that too big to fail, too important to indict has gone down the river and nobody is going to settle for that again.

[Wounded Bear]

18. Simple possession of classified docs in an unsecured site is a felony...

Even if he didn't sell them, or even if he wasn't planning to sell them, simply having them in his residence is a crime.

Obstruction, as always, is an add-on offense, kind of like when the cop pulls you over for speeding and smells alcohol on your breath.

Basically, they've proven that someone has committed a crime. The classified docs were in an unsecured location, at least by how DOD/DOJ defines "secure." A locked cabana by the pool or a locked closet in the basement hardly qualifies. What we've seen so far doesn't necessarily connect it to trump personally, and as a mob boss he's been good at having a fall guy to blame when he has gotten into trouble so far. But as the owner/manager and chief resident of the building where the docs were found, he has to be a prime suspect. Obviously, he had help removing them from the White House and transporting them, but he's the boss. He most likely gave the orders.

He should be toast, but he's been the biggest Teflon Don since Gotti, so it will take some good shit to nail his fat ass.

[Mr. Ected]

21. The walls are quite literally closing in on Trump & Co.

We get a false sense of reality because with each revelation comes an equal and opposite spin from the right.

The point is, our revelations are fact-based; their spin is not.

Our prisons are real. Their threats are hollow.

[onecaliberal]

22. The DOJ is checking documents for fingerprints. Further, TS documents can only be viewed in a SCIF

They will flip the people who touched these documents to get to dump. This is just the beginning and we know what he did pretty much. Let’s let Justice put it all together. There is no indictment coming right now.

[Chainfire]

28. We have gotten a lot of great news this Spring and Summer, yet, nothing has effectively changed.

Trump is still living in his mansion, is still on the campaign trail seemingly immune to the the effects of the law. The evidence that he has committed dozens of criminal acts seem to have changed nothing. If he were a John Smith from the streets, he would be incarcerated, as a flight risk, awaiting trial, and facing hundreds of years of sentences.

I have had the football snatched out from me too many times to begin a celebration over the latest bombshells. I want to see criminal charges for criminal acts, and then I will feel like I can breathe again.

[FarPoint]

30. Merrick Garlands visit to Ukraine back in June...

I think this visit will surface as meeting the domestic espionage bar....being a fruitful deal clincher moment...connected the dots, selling secret s to Russia for example....these Generals may of had evidence or even the Oligarchy yachts had data...

This search warrant was executed because this was what they needed to sew up loose ends....hard evidence.....

[Johnny2X2X]

32. Probable cause was found already

That’s why the espionage act was listed in the warrant.

[GreenWave]

35. The Justice Department has over 100,000 employees

In a very short matter of time fingerprints on those purloined documents can be found. Ultra top secret info should not be shown without clearance.
I also believe the JD is not waiting on the Jan 6th committee, rather not wishing to step on their toes.

Please keep the faith. The ogre will get his comeuppance.

[PortTack]

36. Unfortunately I believe you are correct. When comey testified b4 congress, he said that unless

Documents involved a 3rd party they do not usually pursue charges

[panader0]

39. TFG was guilty before any obstruction of justice. Just taking the documents home is a crime.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

42. Not returning the documents is a felony, but at the light end of the felony spectrum

Sandy Berger stole and subsequently destroyed a classified document from a NARA reading room. He was fined and had his security clearance yanked for three years.

I agree that obstruction is the most likely prosecutable offense of substance.