General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy all the outrage on the right about the search warrant?
What they seem to be saying is that a former president has every right to steal national security documents and hide them at his home. For the purpose of? Selling them to? Who knows?
Seriously?
lapfog_1
(29,910 posts)but his ego wouldn't let him destroy them
notinkansas
(1,106 posts)Ohiya
(2,395 posts)Eugene
(62,611 posts)Sounds about white
JustAnotherGen
(33,253 posts)Walleye
(34,735 posts)Seems like its his supporters in and out of Congress that have already convicted him
Ocelot II
(119,838 posts)of legal process; he's above that.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)The fact that they got a legal warrant, called Secret Service to clear passage, knocked, presented said warrant, entered and performed the search specified and opened the safe against tRump's compliance.... they had to break into it.
IF he'd been compliant, he would have opened the safe to allow them access.
I SAY, "Our new talking point is... IT WASN'T A RAID. RAID IS WHEN POLICE GO IN SHOOTING AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER."
Racist Privileged Assholes, RPAs for short, don't get to USE that word to describe a civil process involving a warrant and the FBI.
The SWAT team wasn't ever there.
PU-LEESE.
librechik
(30,783 posts)We will find the original contract between Putin, Trump, and Satan.
Or am I repeating myself?
underpants
(186,058 posts)Hell, he wont even let US in there.
Something like that.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)So many were so brown nosed for so long..... he had to have something serious on them or nukes pointed at their families.
What we KNOW is bad enough, but it is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
MAYBE he wears all that orange sunscreen because he's really a vampire.... I kid, I kid.
BUT there is a stink to his intolerant and illegal behavior and insistence that he has every right to be the dictator in chief, that there has to be some evidence of how deep and extensive his insanity and illegal behavior go that will prove to even the greatest skeptic how guilty he is.
eShirl
(18,724 posts)situation normal
viva la
(3,704 posts)In their mind, anything Trump wants to do, he gets to do, and anyone who tries to stop him is the criminal. The only real law for them is "What Trump Wants."
There's really no other answer. They might say the FBI is corrupt or this law doesn't apply to this situation, or "he's president, he can declassify". They might have some other excuse. But at base they really believe that the thing they thought was terrible a minute ago is allowable now as long as Trump does it. (And it's still only okay for Trump to do.)
I'm trying to think of how to get my Trumper relative to see that-- that the only standard they have left is "What Trump Wants", and that's wrong, and can't be accepted by the rest of us.
Last time I tried, "In order to believe Trump, you have to believe that everyone else is lying. Everyone-- judges, staff, law enforcement, election officials, Trump's own aides, Trump's vice president, your own ears. And you have to know that one person can't be telling the truth and everyone else lying."
And he said, "But everyone is lying. Trump is right."
All I could say is, "You simply cannot live like that."
But I guess they can.
This is how Alex Jones can spew the most insane vicious lies and a million listeners are furious when he's punished for it. It's not even that they think Sandy Hook was a hoax anymore. Just that no one has any right to criticize Alex Jones or Trump.
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)and see if they actually collected any usable evidence from this.
If they don't, this is could end very badly for us. It doesn't matter how right it may have been, the optics are of the worst kind if this ends up to be fruitless, and groundless claims will be the tune of the day.
It doesn't matter that this had nothing to do with the Democratic party, that is still the painting everyone else will see.
I'm starting to wonder if the FBI isn't working against us again knowing full well how this would look, and right before mid-term elections.
grumpyduck
(6,630 posts)to take tfg out of the running,
and meanwhile tfg's cronies set this up to make sure they don't find anything, and "exonerate" tfg.
Sounds like the Spy vs Spy stories in Mad Magazine.
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)view, the irritating point is that this is a criminal investigation, but we have politicians attaching to it an using it as leverage or campaign material.
Be that from any angle, it taints the entire process, and there's nothing we can do to stop them from behaving this way.
That is why this should never be done (in my personal opinion) unless there is a guarantee of proven criminality (under law, not perception).
It's a very dangerous operation at this level, and we are already seeing why that is true this morning.
I really hope they found something when they were in there.
grumpyduck
(6,630 posts)the Democrats politicizing something are of course the ones who do it all the time.
Fucking assholes.
My guess is, it's taken this long to get that search warrant because they wanted to make sure they would find whatever they were looking for. They had to know how many people would go down, including the FBI and the judge, if it turned into nothing.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)since we've all known for a year and a half he took classified documents from the WH to Maralago, which Trump never disputed and even acknowledged, then I think the FEDS are pretty safe with the "optics" But hey, let's let him run amok because oh no, the optics are bad. SMH
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)reason I'm always the bad guy when I point out the inconvenient parts of these things. I don't think I'll ever understand that.
I didn't say anything about letting him "run amok" either.
One of the truths here is that this is a very sensitive operation, and the risks are so great in executing it, one should be absolutely sure before doing it. Maybe they are sure, we have no idea as of yet.
I know we all have fun on DU calling Trump stupid, idiot, etc, but in reality, he has been pretty slick about riding the lines of legality and barely staying in the shadows to avoid legal justice. To date, we have still been unable to charge him with an actual crime because he and his teams are generally very good at covering their tracks. Visually, no, but legally, yes. We can all see what he has been doing, but at least so far, we haven't been able to prosecute him using real evidence. I know that sucks, but that is where we are.
And then there was my main point, and that is that if they served a search warrant on the residence of a former President (like it or not), the current political opposition, and they find nothing, this might very well be a disaster for us, and that has me very concerned. It has me concerned mostly because of Trump's track record of concealing evidence and getting away with everything.
panader0
(25,816 posts)in order to grant the search warrant. I heard this time and again from the legal eagles on TV.
hope so much that you are right.
I've become quite pessimistic through this entire Trump ordeal though. It has been one legal disappointment after another.
I stay sane by not getting my hopes up.
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)The Office of the Presidency is extremely powerful and though it should not be, it is almost "above the law". There is some validity to giving a President leeway in matters because we certainly do not want a situation where political intrigue interferes with the execution of executive duties. Republicans tried to tie Bill Clinton up with Whitewater, Travelgate, then the Lewinski drama. That was meaningless and political hackery.
I will say, that Trump has a great deal of practice in being a shady con man and crook, so there is definitely risk of coming up empty regarding the search warrant.
He is not however, particularly gifted. He just benefits from being rich and from having held a powerful political position. If this were the 1960's, 70's or 80's, before the advent of Right Wing Media, Trump would be in jail, or have been forced to resign in disgrace like Nixon. In fact, it was Nixon's fall that really prompted people like Roger Ailes and Pat Buchanan to really invest in creating a media ecosystem for Conservative bullshit that would make it near impossible for people to he held to objective legal standards.
Right wingers investigating Benghazi for over 2 years and grilling Hillary Clinton for over 11 hours to find NOTHING, was seen as a legitimate exercise, while investigating Trump for actually trying to foment an insurrection and block the peaceful transfer of power, is being portrayed as a blatant political exercise.
It is madness.
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)madness.
But, Trump is either somewhat crafty in his criminal behaviors, or he is well in tune with people who are.
There is no way someone could get away with all the stuff he has without one or the other.
It's almost as if his every move has been crafted to avoid leaving behind any real evidence.
Even his lies while in office. They almost always rode the line between ludicrous and deniable, and it was all in the way he worded the crazy stuff he would say. The man would stand behind a podium and say "I'm not sure, but they are saying bla bla". He knew his followers would take him for his word, and he knew it was BS, but you see the dodge in there. He can say "I never said it was true".
That's how that ass operated for 4 years, and still is.
That is also why it has been so difficult to prosecute him.
That's my opinion anyway.
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)"I never said it was true"
"You never explicitly said it was true, but you are promoting it irresponsibly by repeating it without doing your own fact checking. You are the president. You are held to a higher standard because people believe your words. What are you going to do in the future to make sure you aren't propagating lies?"
Your opinion is valid. The presentation of opinions is also important.
I say that America has always had a very hard time with the idea of punishing the wealthy and powerful. We just don't seem to like to do it, even if there is a populist mentality of, "they are all crooks". Problem is when they are "our crooks" we don't want to hold them accountable. Democrats seem to have an easier time holding our own accountable. Conservatives/Republicans, will not do it, unless the "brand" is threatened. They are now so deep in with Trump that they can't.
ProfessorGAC
(69,352 posts)Judges don't just rubber stamp warrant applications.
Your conjecture is treading into CT territory.
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)it a conspiracy theory when someone points out that this is politically dangerous?
I disagree, and the evidence is on the front page of every right-wing news website as we speak. It doesn't have to be true, I would think most of us know how this works by now.
And where did I accuse a judge of "rubber stamping" a warrant, or even speculate regarding such an absurd thing? Please point to that statement.
ProfessorGAC
(69,352 posts)You suggested this was an FBI ruse, that COULD be bad.
But, they had a warrant issued by the court.
Your post conveniently (and lazily) left that out completely. So, of course I can't point to a statement you left out, or never even considered.
Nice try.
ForgedCrank
(2,085 posts)at any point call this a "ruse".
I simply pointed out that this bullshit FBI stuff has cost us dearly in the past, and I am specifically pointing to the 2016 election. Deny it if you wish. You can accuse me of whatever those voices are telling you, I don't care really.
If you are expecting every detail of every topic covered in every comment, you will continue to be disappointed.
And where the hell did I suggest there was no warrant? The FBI can't enter someones home without one, did I need to remind you of that in my comment, or did you already know this like everyone else?
geez
panader0
(25,816 posts)"politically dangerous"? Should Pelosi not have gone to Taiwan because she was afraid to make
China mad? We, the Democrats, and more widely, Americans in general, need to be brave, not afraid.
grumpyduck
(6,630 posts)Honestly, sometimes I think the RW media is in cahoots with companies that make heartburn and blood pressure drugs.
How's that for a tin hat conspiracy?
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)Is in the sole business of pushing a conservative and far right agenda, period. Their goals are to promote a Conservative order in the long term, and to distract people in the short term so that the wealthiest people can continue to use their influence to accumulate more money and power.
The heartburn and blood pressure stuff are just side effects for those of us who see through their bullshit.
grumpyduck
(6,630 posts)about meds was in relation to the RW nuts who watch Fox/etc. for the sole purpose of getting more pissed off all the time.
C_U_L8R
(45,526 posts)They're looking for any excuse to start their stupid civil war.
More of these idiots will end up in prison very soon.
There is no requirement to treat traitors kindly.
unblock
(54,042 posts)They think their side is perfect and Donnie is a saint, certainly innocent of any possible crime. They think anyone who does anything against them or donnie in particular must be motivated by something evil, usually partisan politics.
They can't for one minute entertain the thought that donnie might actually be guilty of something.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,843 posts)They can't focus at all on criminality of TRUMP !!!
So they focus on anything but THAT !!!!
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)They are all just now finding out the FBI serves search warrants then proceeds to conduct searches. Who knew!
Thomas Hurt
(13,924 posts)search and seizure of your home. Not to mention the FBI have insulted their Fuhrer. The idiots are incensed. The deep state has blasphemed the god king!
Heil Trumpenfuhrer!
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)It's not like Trump isn't intimately familiar with how FBI search warrants work. His bud Jeffrey Epstein went thought it on quite a grand scale.
Mr. Ected
(9,684 posts)Republicans must have discernment-addled brains as some sort of birth defect.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)is ok with that. But not ok with the FBI using a legal warrant to go into Trump's "castle" to retrieve classified security documents belonging to the Federal government.
Deminpenn
(16,033 posts)Just trying to stir up outrage in their base.
Maeve
(42,840 posts)ZonkerHarris
(25,140 posts)kentuck
(112,491 posts)Trump told them they should be outraged.