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Please stop using the term 'pro life'. (Original Post) Voltaire2 Jul 2022 OP
Exactly. Entirely too much evidence to the contrary. onecaliberal Jul 2022 #1
Anti women, pro birth. Magoo48 Jul 2022 #18
Anti women, forced birth. onecaliberal Jul 2022 #19
Better yet. Magoo48 Jul 2022 #22
I've been calling them anti choice for years. wnylib Jul 2022 #40
Anti-abortion. Lasher Jul 2022 #79
They've NEVER been "pro-life." That's think tank code for female oppression. Greybnk48 Jul 2022 #2
+1 n/t ariadne0614 Jul 2022 #83
Remember "compassionate conservatism"? sop Jul 2022 #91
Yep. Reject their framing. FM123 Jul 2022 #3
Worse than that Leith Jul 2022 #6
I like that. Anti-choice covers just about everything housecat Jul 2022 #11
They see themselves as pro choice Farmer-Rick Jul 2022 #52
Exactly right. ZZenith Jul 2022 #72
This, k and r. BlackSkimmer Jul 2022 #4
Yeah, its amazing how many people insist temporary311 Jul 2022 #5
+10000000000000000 Celerity Jul 2022 #7
Especially considering that most of them value their guns more than anything, including a fetus Maraya1969 Jul 2022 #8
Forced Birth or Pro Choice Emile Jul 2022 #9
Like it too SilasSouleII Jul 2022 #12
I can't stop using it, because I never do. Martin Eden Jul 2022 #10
Agree. I use "anti-woman" instead. ancianita Jul 2022 #13
I NEVER used that term DFW Jul 2022 #14
They Might Actually Be "Pro-Shark Bite"... GB_RN Jul 2022 #16
That would still be more Republican pro-death n/t DFW Jul 2022 #35
Birth slavery works too. Cattle & slaves have their birthing controlled. CON mistresses, not so much Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2022 #15
But "Forced Birthers" has a better ring to it than "birth slavers." EmmaLee E Jul 2022 #50
I agree. ShazzieB Jul 2022 #66
K & R BadgerMom Jul 2022 #17
Absolutely, K&R mrsadm Jul 2022 #20
Forced birth is what I use now. gristy Jul 2022 #21
Is "misogynistic assholes" a better term? DickKessler Jul 2022 #23
Yes. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #26
"Government mandated birth" ypsiguy Jul 2022 #24
In my view that's number one... MiHale Jul 2022 #28
THANK YOU Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #25
I'll take it a step further. The beginning of life has nothing to do with any of this. Gore1FL Jul 2022 #27
Oh, this is an EXCELLENT point! ShazzieB Jul 2022 #69
But if we call them "anti abortion" JohnnyRingo Jul 2022 #29
I don't think anyone is really "pro abortion". mwooldri Jul 2022 #33
I am pro-abortion. WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2022 #42
I'm completely pro abortion. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #43
"want" Vs "need" mwooldri Jul 2022 #75
Worrying about "want" vs. "need" invites rhetoric of "worthy/unworthy" abortions, and is WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2022 #88
One can be personally anti-abortion Mr.Bill Jul 2022 #34
I agree with you completely. BlueBloodedAmerican Jul 2022 #45
Pro-abortion is now the updated language used within the movement, so saying anti-abortion is also WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2022 #41
they are forced birth Celerity Jul 2022 #68
also "anti-choice" or "anti-abortion" DooverBeliever Jul 2022 #30
My sarcastic term for it is Mr.Bill Jul 2022 #31
The right wing is hung up on individual freedom--no masks, no vaccines, no mandatea. Lonestarblue Jul 2022 #32
Sure as shit ain't about to start now. nt Carlitos Brigante Jul 2022 #36
Just a reminder that DEAD people have more rights than a living woman in many states. OMGWTF Jul 2022 #37
Also... 2naSalit Jul 2022 #38
I always used "anti -choice." calimary Jul 2022 #39
I prefer to call them "anti-choice" FakeNoose Jul 2022 #44
I'm starting to dislike anti-choice as it doesn't Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #49
this is one of my little campaigns barbtries Jul 2022 #46
They've never forgiven Eve for giving the apple to Adam. ananda Jul 2022 #47
Funny, how the men who wrote that story found their female scapegoat in the very first chapter.... lindysalsagal Jul 2022 #60
I tend to use "anti-choice" and "anti-women." I don't think... Pacifist Patriot Jul 2022 #48
Well I disagree. Forced birth correctly frames Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #51
Fair enough Pacifist Patriot Jul 2022 #53
They are also not "Christian." At. All. themaguffin Jul 2022 #54
Agreed Progressive dog Jul 2022 #55
i call them slavers. mopinko Jul 2022 #56
Thank you! Mysterian Jul 2022 #57
ANTI CHOICE DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2022 #58
It's weak. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #61
I definitely tend to avoid that erroneous term... Wounded Bear Jul 2022 #59
Pre-life. n/t aocommunalpunch Jul 2022 #62
Pro Death.... BigmanPigman Jul 2022 #63
As George Carlin said, they're not pro-life, they're anti-woman AdamGG Jul 2022 #64
Hard agree. ShazzieB Jul 2022 #65
kick Celerity Jul 2022 #67
Agreed - their stance is all about control Lithos Jul 2022 #70
i used to use anti-choice Takket Jul 2022 #71
I never used that term, always used anti-choice Raine Jul 2022 #73
Woman-hating gestational slavers. niyad Jul 2022 #74
Abortion abolitionists is another term I just saw somewhere. nt BootinUp Jul 2022 #76
Been saying this since they raised their ugly heads. WinstonSmith4740 Jul 2022 #77
Exactly. Rhiannon12866 Jul 2022 #78
Many of us have been voicing that plea for 55 years now. marybourg Jul 2022 #80
I have NEVER used BlueMTexpat Jul 2022 #81
Pro-Privacy, Pro-Liberty, Pro-Choice RicROC Jul 2022 #82
Agree 100% BlueJac Jul 2022 #84
and stop calling them the "GOP" RandiFan1290 Jul 2022 #85
Exactly, I've been saying the same thing. lark Jul 2022 #86
they're pro on a lot of things.... Locrian Jul 2022 #87
It's tyranny, really. They are pro-tyranny. Buckeyeblue Jul 2022 #89
Pro-Fetus, Anti-Child. zentrum Jul 2022 #90
If they were really "pro-life", area51 Jul 2022 #92
I'm pro it's none of my fucking business. BradAllison Jul 2022 #93
They are not pro life. IngridsLittleAngel Jul 2022 #94

wnylib

(21,924 posts)
40. I've been calling them anti choice for years.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:06 PM
Jul 2022

While we're at it, we could also drop the phrase "late term abortion."

Lasher

(27,729 posts)
79. Anti-abortion.
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 12:13 AM
Jul 2022

That's how they were initially described, if memory serves. And that label is still being used today. Back in the day, GOP word merchants didn't like the negativity that was projected, so they reframed it to pro-life. Much better, they are in favor of life. Who could oppose such a thing?

Anti-abortion works best for me. Because that's just what they are.

Greybnk48

(10,188 posts)
2. They've NEVER been "pro-life." That's think tank code for female oppression.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 12:43 PM
Jul 2022

The terms "pro-life" and "conservative" are like baby Bush calling his environmental policy the "Blue Skies" initiative.

It's 1984 bullshit "doublespeak" to brainwash people to believe "doublethink."

Farmer-Rick

(10,279 posts)
52. They see themselves as pro choice
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:48 PM
Jul 2022

They allow some people sometimes to make choices like wearing masks and not getting vaccinated. It's fine for men to choose sex, just not women.

I think using anti-choice makes us sound like we forgot about mask wearing and vaccines. That we don't know men can choose sex. They think women do have a choice to get pregnant or not to get pregnant. That once pregnant you are done having choices.

Even though we all know consent to have sex is not consent to get pregnant or to stay pregnant, they think having sex should have as painful of repercussions for women as is possible. But it's fine for men to have sex with as many females as possible. Just like the ancient goat herders with their 20 wives. But women need to suffer and possibly die for having sex.

I think forced birth is a more accurate description. They want every one of those tiny embryos implanted in a uterus to go thru to birth. It doesn't matter what awful things may befall the mother or the fetus. It doesn't even matter, in some states, if the mother alone or the mother and fetus will die.

Each human embryo must be allowed to go through to birth no matter who dies. That embryo has special magical rights to use another person's body without their consent. The woman has no rights once that egg is fertilized. That is forced birth.

temporary311

(956 posts)
5. Yeah, its amazing how many people insist
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 12:48 PM
Jul 2022

on always using the right wing framing. When you do that, you've already lost.

Maraya1969

(22,547 posts)
8. Especially considering that most of them value their guns more than anything, including a fetus
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:15 PM
Jul 2022

And they think the death penalty is OK.

I wonder how one of them would answer this: "If it could be guaranteed that no more abortions ever happened if you give up all your guns would you do it?"


I bet there would be a big pause followed by "ems" and "ers" and then some explanation as to why they would keep their guns.

Martin Eden

(12,903 posts)
10. I can't stop using it, because I never do.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:27 PM
Jul 2022

Women will DIE as a result of anti-abortion laws.

Isn't enough that people are already dying as a result of Republican policies on guns, policing, healthcare, and the environment?

More like a death cult than pro-life, including the death of our democracy at the hands of Christo-fascists.

DFW

(54,622 posts)
14. I NEVER used that term
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:38 PM
Jul 2022

They are for killing women when it's a question of saving them or forbidding an abortion.
They are invariably for killing animals and eating them
They are invariably in favor of the death penalty
They habitually quote passages from their bible where their deity kills people for not doing exactly what THEY want.

They are "pro-life" like they are "pro-shark bite."

GB_RN

(2,485 posts)
16. They Might Actually Be "Pro-Shark Bite"...
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:45 PM
Jul 2022

Depending on who they’re talking about. You know, like a high-profile Democrat, or abortion provider, etc.

gristy

(10,669 posts)
21. Forced birth is what I use now.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:48 PM
Jul 2022

I had used anti-abortion for years. "Pro life" has not been by folks on this board since, well, forever.

Gore1FL

(21,217 posts)
27. I'll take it a step further. The beginning of life has nothing to do with any of this.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 01:56 PM
Jul 2022

Life on earth began over 3.5 Billion years ago. It hasn't started or stopped since. The argument is when an individual begins. Making it "life" simply pollutes the discussion with hyperbole.

ShazzieB

(16,752 posts)
69. Oh, this is an EXCELLENT point!
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 09:43 PM
Jul 2022

It makes an end run about all those pointless diatribes about "when life begins" and gets right to what really matters.

I've never really understood the whole obsession with pinpointing the so-called beginning of life anyway. Maybe it's because I wasn't raised in a faith tradition where that was emphasized (or really made an issue of at all, really). But for whatever reason, when anti-choicers start pontificating on how a set of unique human DNA is present from conception onwards, my reaction has always been, "Yeah, so...?"

To me, that has always seemed neither here nor there in terms of whether abortion should be legal. I just don't get it. And yet, it seems to be such a HUGE bfd to some people. I. Don't. Get. It.

mwooldri

(10,311 posts)
33. I don't think anyone is really "pro abortion".
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 02:28 PM
Jul 2022

Like anyone would on purpose go get pregnant and then wait a while and go terminate that pregnancy by choice.

So you're right IMO. It is unsavoury.

mwooldri

(10,311 posts)
75. "want" Vs "need"
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 10:42 PM
Jul 2022

Sorry, may have not made myself 1,000,000,000 % clear.

In terms of the procedure itself, yes effective and safe. In terms of whether this medical procedure should be available to all who need it, again yes. I suppose in this sense I'm "pro abortion". Abortion is a medical procedure, the decision of which should be between patient and doctor. Politicians should butt out.

I've tried to think of an analogy here that makes sense, but I'm not the most eloquent of people around... I'll try anyway - so the best I came up with is "want" Vs "need". I don't think anyone wants an abortion, but people who need an abortion want to be able to get one. People who need an abortion fall into two camps - unwanted pregnancy and wanted pregnancies that aren't viable or would kill the patient. Those who didn't want to get pregnant certainly didn't want to have to have an abortion. But they need it for ... well none of my business but they need it. Those who have an ectopic pregnancy, a non viable foetus, or whatever certainly didn't want to end their pregnancy but they need to for xyz reason.

So in the fight against the anti abortion lobby, it's all about messaging. The anti abortion lobby have to be honest been pretty successful in pushing their message. They have certainly turned "pro abortion" into a negative message of "baby killing" - which abortion is not (and besides baby killing is against the law). They also hijacked the term "pro life" quite successfully.

As I said I'm not the best with words. But I know "pro abortion" isn't a winning message. "Pro Choice" is better. In my mind the "pro abortion" people (pro as in having the ability to receive this vital medical care) are the true pro life people - after all pregnancy and abortion is a complicated health issue that needs expert help and the choice between patient and doctor results in a better life for the patient. Denying access to certain medical procedures that would result in a better life outcome is not in my mind pro life.

This dirty old trucker will probably stew over this for the next few days (or longer)... I want to do something but not much I can do.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,595 posts)
88. Worrying about "want" vs. "need" invites rhetoric of "worthy/unworthy" abortions, and is
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 09:46 AM
Jul 2022

unacceptable.

I don't think anyone wants an abortion,
People definitely want abortions. It's like wanting gall-bladder surgery when you're having a gallstone attack. You want what will give you relief.

But I know "pro abortion" isn't a winning message. "Pro Choice" is better.
The larger abortion rights movement has moved away from "pro-choice" because people don't have a choice when access is limited, whether by distance, laws, resources, whatever. The movement has adopted more "pro abortion" language to eliminate the stigma around the very word "abortion."

I want to do something but not much I can do.
One of the most helpful things you can do is donate to an abortion fund; even a small donation like $5 makes a huge difference to people trying to access abortions. Abortion funds help people pay for an abortion, as well as the travel, childcare or lodging that they might need when getting an abortion. It's a great way to help people directly.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,595 posts)
41. Pro-abortion is now the updated language used within the movement, so saying anti-abortion is also
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:07 PM
Jul 2022

fine.

DooverBeliever

(7 posts)
30. also "anti-choice" or "anti-abortion"
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 02:19 PM
Jul 2022

This issue is about the freedom to decide.

Discussion Phrases:
Protect people’s freedom to decide
My decision for my life, your decision for yours
Ensure people have the power to decide
Respect women’s decisions


And --
Politicians should not be making laws, this decision is between a person, their family, and their doctor. One-size-fits-all laws simply don’t work when people are making personal medical decisions, such as the decision to have an abortion.

Lonestarblue

(10,282 posts)
32. The right wing is hung up on individual freedom--no masks, no vaccines, no mandatea.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 02:26 PM
Jul 2022

All are government tyranny, yet taking away a woman’s right to make her own medical decisions is not tyranny by the government. These people are not only for ed birthers, they are anti freedom. How do they justify that with their claim to individual freedom for themselves?

OMGWTF

(4,021 posts)
37. Just a reminder that DEAD people have more rights than a living woman in many states.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 02:35 PM
Jul 2022

You have to give written consent for anyone else to use your dead body.

2naSalit

(87,195 posts)
38. Also...
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 02:49 PM
Jul 2022

Instead of saying "Because she wanted one" about abortions, I think it is better to say, "Because she CHOSE to have one".
That statement works both ways, hard to argue about it. Choice is choice whether motivated by want or need, it's a choice.

calimary

(81,702 posts)
39. I always used "anti -choice."
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:06 PM
Jul 2022

But “forced birth” is good, too.

What’s best of all is that people on our side are THINKING on this. And coming up with useful MESSAGING.

Messaging is EVERYTHING!!!

THAT’S how you influence and manage public opinion.

FakeNoose

(33,051 posts)
44. I prefer to call them "anti-choice"
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:16 PM
Jul 2022

But I agree that "pro-life" has always been incorrect, and an obfuscation besides.

George Orwell saw today's Repuke Party evolving almost 80 years ago. (Animal Farm was published in 1945.)

Voltaire2

(13,440 posts)
49. I'm starting to dislike anti-choice as it doesn't
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:26 PM
Jul 2022

really get to the heart of the matter. They are literally forcing women to give birth, and in some states that includes dying in the process.

Forced birth puts the issue right into perspective.

barbtries

(28,837 posts)
46. this is one of my little campaigns
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:19 PM
Jul 2022

for a few years now. i have been begging people not to concede this to the misogynistic fascists, ever. Thank you for the thread.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,656 posts)
48. I tend to use "anti-choice" and "anti-women." I don't think...
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:26 PM
Jul 2022

some of them care if there is a birth or not. At least not if you look at that ridiculous proposed NC law. They seem perfectly content for women to die without giving birth so "forced birth" doesn't quite cover it either.

Voltaire2

(13,440 posts)
51. Well I disagree. Forced birth correctly frames
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 03:31 PM
Jul 2022

the issue as the state compelling women to give birth even if it kills them. This is not about some individual nebulous ‘choice’, it is about compulsion and complete indifference to the circumstances.

Voltaire2

(13,440 posts)
61. It's weak.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 07:44 PM
Jul 2022

This is no longer about ‘choice’, it is about saving people from compulsory pregnancy and birth.

Wounded Bear

(58,852 posts)
59. I definitely tend to avoid that erroneous term...
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 06:29 PM
Jul 2022

Forced birth works for me.

Anti-abortionists works too.

BigmanPigman

(51,735 posts)
63. Pro Death....
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 08:54 PM
Jul 2022

is more like it. Death for the women and death for the children (after they are forced to be born and then are shot dead at school). The Pro Death Party.

They want to kill through any means possible...no affordable health insur., unhealthy climate, poor working conditions, no $$ for food, etc. Pro Death all the way.

ShazzieB

(16,752 posts)
65. Hard agree.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 09:07 PM
Jul 2022

I never, ever call them that, and if I ever did, it was long before I was active at DU, so long ago that I can't ever remember. I usually call them forced birthers, but I'm also okay with calling their stance anti-choice or anti'abortion.

The main thing is NOT to call them by the label they invented for themselves. The ONLY reason they call themselves "pro life" is to imply that everybody else is "pro death. That is a deliberate insult to anyone who doesn't share their beliefs, and it's rude and disrespectful as well as wildly inaccurate.

Any time we use that term, we are pandering to them AND appearing to give lip service to their claim that they are the only ones who care about "life." They do NOT deserve that, and we should NEVER give it to them.

Lithos

(26,405 posts)
70. Agreed - their stance is all about control
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 10:06 PM
Jul 2022

The emotional and religious contortions come afterwards to support their stance. That is why their arguments make no sense.

L-

Takket

(21,778 posts)
71. i used to use anti-choice
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 10:11 PM
Jul 2022

but i've recently switched to forced birth having seen that term enter the lexicon, as well.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,063 posts)
77. Been saying this since they raised their ugly heads.
Tue Jul 19, 2022, 11:59 PM
Jul 2022

They've never been "pro-life". They've never given a rat's ass about kids once they're born. But unfortunately, "messaging" is the thing the RW loonies have perfected, and our side is still trying to figure out. We should have been calling them "anti-choice" or "forced birth" all along. We've let them define the parameters of this argument for way too long.

marybourg

(12,657 posts)
80. Many of us have been voicing that plea for 55 years now.
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 01:55 AM
Jul 2022

But such is the power of the right wing mass media that even some Dems and progressives use that repugnant phrase.

lark

(23,252 posts)
86. Exactly, I've been saying the same thing.
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 08:33 AM
Jul 2022

They hate all life except that of rich white males and are forcing us to have babies to sell to rich white folks and to become cannon fodder for factories/fields with no safety controls. They are forced birthers who want to make all women nothing more than birthing machines.

Locrian

(4,523 posts)
87. they're pro on a lot of things....
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 09:32 AM
Jul 2022

Pro rapist - if you get pregnant, they will help the rapist ensure you carry his baby. So if some guy wants to rape and get someone pregnant (they wont help him rape) but they will DEFINITELY help him with forced pregnancy.

Same with pro incest.

Pro death - health of the woman? Who cares. Force her to carry, deliver etc. If she dies who cares as long as their beliefs are upheld

Buckeyeblue

(5,509 posts)
89. It's tyranny, really. They are pro-tyranny.
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 09:56 AM
Jul 2022

They are against the most basic freedom, which is the freedom over one's own body.

It's one thing to say you would never get an abortion. Although I would caution anyone against saying never...

But to legislate against the freedom over your own body. To have laws that say, if you get pregnant you must see the pregnancy through is beyond my understanding.

I think I've always known how extreme conservatives could be but this has been eye opening. I think for a lot of people.

Hopefully people vote.

zentrum

(9,866 posts)
90. Pro-Fetus, Anti-Child.
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 11:23 AM
Jul 2022

If they were "pro life", they'd take care of women and children and families after birth.

area51

(11,953 posts)
92. If they were really "pro-life",
Wed Jul 20, 2022, 11:25 AM
Jul 2022

they'd be on the forefront of trying to get the US universal healthcare; you can't have life without healthcare at some point. Also, they'd be working on getting affordable childcare available for everyone.

 

IngridsLittleAngel

(1,962 posts)
94. They are not pro life.
Thu Jul 21, 2022, 09:17 AM
Jul 2022

Like you, I've been saying that for years too. They don't give a shit about life. If they did, they'd not be such warmongers. They wouldn't be so in love with guns. They would've done more over the last 2 years to control the spread of COVID. They wouldn't be so anti-healthcare. They wouldn't be burning the planet to the ground in the name of profits. They wouldn't be doing so much to bully and punch down on women and POC and LGBTQ's.

They don't fucking care about life.

They are pro-forced birth. They are pro-fetus. They are pro-controlling women.

They're just hateful fascist assholes. What else is new?

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