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Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:02 PM Jun 2022

Common person head scratcher re J6

Re: The encounter Hutchinson described that occured. Presumably, shortly after the event ( trump freaking out in SUV)

1. Why would Engel tell Ornato? Aren't they trump apologists? Why would they trash him? Heat of moment? And then call Hutchinson in? Why?

2. Why did Ornato tell Hutchinson the story? It happened to Engel! In fact it had just happened to Engel! Did he just stand there mute?

3. Why wave her in to tell her? Either they were all incredibly simpatico or something??



Disclaimer:. Just an ordinary Dem. Please just kindly correct if I have something wrong

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Common person head scratcher re J6 (Original Post) Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 OP
Office gossip is office gossip, even in the WH. RockRaven Jun 2022 #1
+1 Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #10
I took it that they were very surprised by the intensity of what had happened KarenS Jun 2022 #2
Ah... The "informal" chain of command. Kinda like ehen Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #5
Love him.... or want something from him. tinrobot Jun 2022 #13
I never heard .. Did Hutchinson really want to go Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #20
They believed that Hutchinson was loyal to Trump. gab13by13 Jun 2022 #3
Yes. And it's one thing for a bystander to speak out, another Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #7
Why do you think FG wanted to go to the Capitol? If that's true? Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #15
That's where the laurel wreath was to be placed on his head. Frasier Balzov Jun 2022 #36
Trying to impress a pretty girl CanonRay Jun 2022 #4
I hear ya! It's all starting to make total sense! nt Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #9
undoubtedly a factor, this happens every office Captain Zero Jun 2022 #26
Ornato had been a SS agent and was now overseeing them vis a vis the WH mcar Jun 2022 #6
Maybe warning her of TFG's mood so she can be on her toes to avoid flying plates Raven123 Jun 2022 #8
Wild guess. They spoiled his plan, and needed to usonian Jun 2022 #11
Expound. FGs plan to take over govt? Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #21
The ride is news to me. All I can conclude is that he wanted to be "there" And THAT plan was spoiled usonian Jun 2022 #24
Agree with everything except that you won't speculate Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #31
Want me to speculate? That's a tricky game. usonian Jun 2022 #33
Carry on ! Look forward to analysis at some point!!! nt Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #35
Remember, Hutchinson said Engel was looking disoriented/disheveled.... Sogo Jun 2022 #12
That's what it sounds like to me too. nt mcar Jun 2022 #16
Yeah I may have missed it, but wonder why no one asked Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #17
She was asked... 2naSalit Jun 2022 #22
Yes heard that. But if you just think about something Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #32
My take: Ornato and Engler weren't in on it, and were taken by surprise. Just Gaugamela Jun 2022 #14
Very good point!!!!! Have to filter people's reactions Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #18
They 'say' they are willing to testify and call her 'story' a lie. sheshe2 Jun 2022 #19
Well she's got a proponent on CNN who has said something Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #23
Why does it matter? Ohio Joe Jun 2022 #25
Wow.. way harsh OJ Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #27
Really... Ohio Joe Jun 2022 #28
Feel honored Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #29
Heat of the moment? MLAA Jun 2022 #30
Good point. Guess violence hadn't started yet either.? Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #34
Let's not be distracted from hugely incriminating evidence by Kool-Aid. Hortensis Jun 2022 #37
All part of the same event tho isn't it? For me, it's about Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #38
For the DoJ, that'll be at most a minor detail in a GIANT CRIME. Hortensis Jun 2022 #39
Understand all that H. Not distracted at all. Just, as a Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2022 #40

KarenS

(4,200 posts)
2. I took it that they were very surprised by the intensity of what had happened
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:11 PM
Jun 2022

and wanted to talk about it,,,,, that they were amazed or surprised,,,, and that they often shared things with each other.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
5. Ah... The "informal" chain of command. Kinda like ehen
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:19 PM
Jun 2022

A family talks about a crazy uncle, but bottom line they love him?
.

gab13by13

(22,081 posts)
3. They believed that Hutchinson was loyal to Trump.
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:11 PM
Jun 2022

The story would not have mattered if Hutchinson doesn't testify.

Why wouldn't Engel tell his escapade? How often does a president freak out, grab the steering wheel and choke his SS agent? It would be hard not to tell someone.

They can all lie now and say it never happened that way.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
7. Yes. And it's one thing for a bystander to speak out, another
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:22 PM
Jun 2022

For someone in power with personal jeopardy.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
15. Why do you think FG wanted to go to the Capitol? If that's true?
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:33 PM
Jun 2022

Just for the sheer adoration? To command a literal government overthrow?

And HOW would he know he would be safe? Million dollar question - ergo, Who would
NOT be safe?

CanonRay

(14,265 posts)
4. Trying to impress a pretty girl
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:15 PM
Jun 2022

with their inside knowledge? Men are often stupid in this very fashion if I recall my mispent youth.

mcar

(42,695 posts)
6. Ornato had been a SS agent and was now overseeing them vis a vis the WH
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:21 PM
Jun 2022

why wouldn't Engel tell him? Yes, they are Trump Humpers.

Hutchinson was part of the team on a busy, violent, emotional day. Why wouldn't they talk to her about what had happened in the SUV? She was one of them.

Why wouldn't Ornato tell Hutchinson the story? They worked closely together. According to Hutchinson, Engel appeared "discombobulated." If your boss had just attacked you while you were doing your job, wouldn't you be?

Why not wave her in to tell her? They were colleagues and something intense had just happened.

If they want to dispute her testimony, they can do it, under oath and in public. Otherwise, their version of events is irrelevant and there is no reason to trust it.

Hutchinson testified under oath, in public, to what she was told re this event. Which, BTW, is pretty much just a sidebar to the real news of yesterday's hearing, but you do keep wanting to question this.

Common person headscratcher: why?

usonian

(10,414 posts)
11. Wild guess. They spoiled his plan, and needed to
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:25 PM
Jun 2022

get a story out before he invented one to cover himself (always at someone else's expense)

usonian

(10,414 posts)
24. The ride is news to me. All I can conclude is that he wanted to be "there" And THAT plan was spoiled
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:00 PM
Jun 2022

Crybaby doesn't want anything, however small, to go otherwise, or he flies into a rage.

I'd be trying to cover my ass ahead of his account of the ride.

No idea if that was part of the script to take over. That's TBD.

It is entirely logical of SS to haul TFG and Pence out of danger. That's exactly their job. They know danger.

More than that, I have no idea.

And I won't speculate. (Other people actually do that better)

Other than "It's completely predictable that he wanted the spectacle."

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
31. Agree with everything except that you won't speculate
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:33 PM
Jun 2022

One thing I keep thinking back to on that day was that the insurrectionists all seemed to be incredibly interested in papers, notes and pc's

usonian

(10,414 posts)
33. Want me to speculate? That's a tricky game.
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:50 PM
Jun 2022

Didn't the woman who stole Nancy Pelosi's laptop claim to want to sell it to Russia? (for what that's worth or worthless)
Others? Hard to say. Some had a definite agenda, and others may have been idiots just for cover.

I don't want to speculate because I have stuff that needs to get done and I really want to focus on my GOTV and Ukraine and Electronic Privacy stuff. I am willing to back off humor and posting photos. It's just that I am relatively new here and easily distracted. I already backed some stuff off and promised myself to let almost everything not on my focus list go.

This is very complex, with deliberate distractions. As I posted "this story is LITERALLY as long and twisted as a Russian novel. }



Sogo

(5,083 posts)
12. Remember, Hutchinson said Engel was looking disoriented/disheveled....
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:26 PM
Jun 2022

He had gone into Ornato's office to tell him about the event, and both of them were probably in somewhat disbelief at the line Trump had crossed.

Ornato summoned Hutchinson in to vent....

"Did you hear...."

My take FWIW....

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
17. Yeah I may have missed it, but wonder why no one asked
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:36 PM
Jun 2022

Hutchinson did Engel say anything? But actually can envision it. Engel just nodding, yup it happened. Still would have been interesting to have asked her what Engel did/said other than not refute.

2naSalit

(87,938 posts)
22. She was asked...
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:50 PM
Jun 2022

And she said that the telling was by Ornado in the presence of Engel who never corrected the story or denied it then or later, until today.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
32. Yes heard that. But if you just think about something
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:46 PM
Jun 2022

wild that just happened to you. And someone is telling the story that you presumably just told them, strikes me you'd interject a bunch. Not that it matters one iota, but at least to me, Hutchinson was closer to Ornato than to Engels. And Engels trusted Ornato more than Hutchinson

Gaugamela

(2,510 posts)
14. My take: Ornato and Engler weren't in on it, and were taken by surprise. Just
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:32 PM
Jun 2022

as McConnell was taken by surprise and made a statement from the floor condemning the attack which he later abandoned, Ornato and Engler reacted honestly and then changed their story later.

sheshe2

(84,544 posts)
19. They 'say' they are willing to testify and call her 'story' a lie.
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:41 PM
Jun 2022

They say they are willing to testify under oath? I don't think so. Lol, so was Ginni then bowed out saying she had too many personal issues at this time. Snort, I bet she does.

Hutchinson had nothing to gain and everything to lose by testifying. She is not lying.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
23. Well she's got a proponent on CNN who has said something
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 10:51 PM
Jun 2022

Like... If SHE said it - it has to be true.

Do wonder why after all the BS trump did, that this was different? Perhaps deep inside they knew he was whacked? And he just went TOO far?

Have to look at this all through the lens of the extraordinary events of that day. And they were in the middle of it. Had the violence started yet or was this before?

Ohio Joe

(21,811 posts)
25. Why does it matter?
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:01 PM
Jun 2022

It is a second hand account of perhaps the least criminal thing said about tfg in her entire testimony and it has quickly grown into the largest right wing talking point on the internet. Is there really nothing else in her testimony that interests you besides this right wing talking point?

MLAA

(17,563 posts)
30. Heat of the moment?
Wed Jun 29, 2022, 11:16 PM
Jun 2022

Remember on Jan 6 mccarthy and a bunch of repugs were very shaken and vocal against the insurrection. Of course it all wore off in 12 hours.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
34. Good point. Guess violence hadn't started yet either.?
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 12:08 AM
Jun 2022

Actually important for state of mind. And then later it was like JHC knew he was bad but not THIS bad?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
37. Let's not be distracted from hugely incriminating evidence by Kool-Aid.
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:26 AM
Jun 2022

So far SteeringWheelGate is the most effective distraction they've managed. Pathetic.

EVIDENCE THAT MATTERS: The afternoon of J6 tRump repeatedly ordered the SES to take him to the Capitol under attack. He promised the insurrectionists he'd be there with them.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
38. All part of the same event tho isn't it? For me, it's about
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 11:32 AM
Jun 2022

overall credibility of witness. Did Ornata really relay this story? Was Engel really in room? And was the story true? And the story includes not only the lunge but FGs adamant desire to go to Cap.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
39. For the DoJ, that'll be at most a minor detail in a GIANT CRIME.
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 01:44 PM
Jun 2022

IF TRUMP WAS TRYING TO CARRY OFF A COUP OR OBSTRUCT CONGRESS, it literally doesn't matter to the legal case if this anecdote is true or not.

As for Ornata, he's known to be tRump's man and long disrespected even among tRump circles, as well as professional WH observers. He has extremely poor credibility to start with. The Republicans' promise to have him testify under oath is a bad joke, as anyone who watched the senate confirmation hearings for tRump's nominees should fully realize.

Regarding Hutchinson's testimony, she and it have all been carefully investigated by the House Select Committee. What was presented in the hearing is THE COMMITTEE'S testimony to the people. Please don't confuse the committee's credibility with tRump's, the coup elements in the GOP, and those fighting desperately to protect them.

The committee has thousands of pieces of evidence and hundreds of interviewed witnesses to these events, and some will be able to corroborate or at least support her account. They're not fools. They know the credibility everything they present will be attacked.

Last, the battle for power is enormous. There will be many more attempts to distract us from what means everything and focus us on lies and fake issues like this that, in the end, are irrelevant. Don't be fooled.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
40. Understand all that H. Not distracted at all. Just, as a
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 03:04 PM
Jun 2022

common person, talking out the pieces of particular testimony that popped out as mysterious on a personal human interaction level. Not necessarily anything that could ever be considered federally indictable.

That said, it was the Committee themselves who chose to bring this incident to light, right? Is that what you're implying that it was done for reasons we don't know and that no Democrat should pay any attention at all? If yes, we all may need to take some three dimensional chess lessons

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