Peter Alexander of NBC is reporting both the limo driver and tRump's Security Chief

[Totally Tunsie]

Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

are prepared to testify that the reported incident in the limo DID NOT occur. This was on Lester Holt's broadcast at 6:30. Stay tuned.

This actually goes along with a thought I had earlier today - that much of what Cassidy Hutchinson testified today was hearsay...things she was TOLD about, but didn't actually witness, i.e. limo incident, food throwing. She saw the aftermaths only and is relying on someone else describing the actual incidents. Don't get me wrong - I believe her as far as what she may have been told and find her credible, but this is a huge loophole in her testimony.

ETA: Affixing post #33 from below containing Alexander's later tweet:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16865053

[sinkingfeeling]

1. She said she was "told" about that.

[Totally Tunsie]

21. Thats what makes it hearsay. If this were a court of law,

her testimony about these incidents would not be allowed.

[Samrob]

101. Well, Alexander only reports that a "reliable source" told him the gents denied the incident. nt

[dweller]

2. Reported also by David Muir on ABC

But it was SS willing to testify it didn’t happen …

Roll the tapes from the Beast



✌🏻

[harumph]

3. There are several vehicles...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216864898

[harumph]

4. Get Engle to testify

[Totally Tunsie]

22. He is the Security Chief that Alexander says is willing to state

it did not happen.

[GoodRaisin]

41. Hutchinson said it was Ornato that told her.

Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Seems pretty simple to have him testify about exactly what he said during that conversation. I don’t believe she has a reason to lie about it.

Edited to correct that it was Ornato, not Engle, that had told Hutchinson about what Trump did in the car.

[Stallion]

47. Could Be Admitted Under Several Exceptions to Hearsay Rule Depending on the Facts

Example:

A present sense impression, in the law of evidence, is a statement made by a person (the declarant) that conveys his or her sense of the state of an event or the condition of something. The statement must be spontaneously made while the person was perceiving (i.e. contemporaneous with) the event or condition, or "immediately thereafter." The permissible time lapse between event and statement may range from seconds to minutes, but probably not hours

[Stallion]

53. Also Perhaps Excited Utterance Exception (again depending on Facts)

(2) Excited Utterance. A statement relating to a startling event or condition, made while the declarant was under the stress of excitement that it caused.

[Totally Tunsie]

50. Hutchinson said it was ORNATO who told her about Engle.

Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 09:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Hutchinson said that after Trump delivered his speech to the crowed at the Ellipse that day, she returned to the White House and saw Anthony Ornato, a senior Secret Service official who was detailed to the White House and served as deputy chief of operations. Ornato pulled her into his office, where Trump's head of security at the time, Robert Engel, was sitting in a chair looking "somewhat discombobulated and a little lost," she said.

She said Ornato told her that when Trump entered "The Beast" — the president's heavily armored SUV limousine — he still believed it would be possible for him to go to the Capitol. But when Engel told him they couldn't for security reasons, Trump had "a very strong, very angry response," she said she was told.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-january-6-committee-hearing-cassidy-hutchinson-mark-meadows-aide-says-trump-

Edited for typo.

[GoodRaisin]

76. Yeah, saw that. I got the two guys in the room mixed up. They need to

get both of them to testify. Ornato in particular since he was the one who told her.

[pecosbob]

5. Why do they refer to him as the 'limo driver' and not Secret Service Agent?

Haven't seen the article but it immediately smells like spin.

[gldstwmn]

73. Right? The guy that drives the car is way more than a limo driver.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

6. She was clear in differentiating what she witnessed

and what she was told.

But I'm sure the Orange Monster's friends will bellow loud about this to try and discredit her.

[TheRealNorth]

7. Maybe she was a plant

To try to discredit the J6 Committee. Spread some easily-disprovable shit that she was "told" had happened (thus getting her off from perjury), while mixing in some truth so that the Republicans could try to discredit everything.

I could see that happening.

[Mme. Defarge]

15. Lie under oath?

[Totally Tunsie]

26. She's not lying.. She says she was TOLD, not that she had witnessed

the incidents. But her testimony is thus hearsay.

[Mme. Defarge]

32. If she was told these things on 1/6

are you suggesting they marked her for a stooge in case the needed a “plant” at some future date?

[Totally Tunsie]

34. I'm not suggesting anything.

[JoanofArgh]

52. I couldn't because the J6 committee isn't that flat out stupid.

A lot of them are lawyers for gods sakes.

[mcar]

57. Really?

2 hours of damning testimony but sure, let's all fall for the "sources say" crap about one thing.

[brooklynite]

71. A fresh new conspiracy theory is always appreciated.

[Takket]

8. not really a big deal from the standpoint that Garland would NEVER allow any of those statements

to be used as "evidence" in a trial. Only things she was a direct witness to would be used.

[TheRealNorth]

11. But to a certain extent....

This is the court of public opinion.

[Totally Tunsie]

29. ...which is not a court of law.

Court of opinion also says abortion should be legal. Tell that to Texas, Utah, etc.
Unfortunately court of opinion has no legal standing; what it does have is the voters ear.

[TheRealNorth]

42. So what is your point?

Are you saying that if a Republican plant makes the J6 Committee look dumb, it doesn't matter because its not a legal proceeding?

[Totally Tunsie]

44. Don't put words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

Merely brought forward what was being reported on national news regarding Hutchinson's testimony.

Where do YOU get "Republican plant" from?

[OneGrassRoot]

9. She heard the Pence comment...

and Trump wanting the armed rioters to be allowed to walk to the Capitol. I think the Beast tidbit is just icing on the cake. Not a game changer re the impact of her testimony.

[Totally Tunsie]

31. Takes away a potential assault charge against tRump.

[OneGrassRoot]

46. lol

Sorry, that seems so minor in the scheme of things especially when there’s no way SS would press charges.

[Totally Tunsie]

56. Every little bit helps.

Just remember - they got Al Capone for tax evasion despite his more nefarious activities.

I say "Pile it on."

[OneGrassRoot]

99. True! n/t

[Kingofalldems]

10. My first reaction to the story was that there is no way ...

Trump would go to the front lines anywhere.

[TheRealNorth]

14. Thats what I thought too

Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Seems too sloppy to be sending threats by text also.

[mercuryblues]

20. He would if he thought they were going to be

throwing roses at his feet and bow down.

Remember what she said Ghouliani told her. J6 is going to be a great day. Trump is going to speak to congress and will look strong and powerful.

[Mike Nelson]

12. Hmm...

... seems weird that the committee would highlight an incident that did not occur! I would have made sure the incident happened, or leave it off my list of questions. The committee is full of intelligent people... how could this happen?

[Lovie777]

13. Well they didn't want to testify . ....

now they do - LOL

[milestogo]

16. Must have been Jared or Ivanka who threw a sandwich at the wall.

[crazylikafox]

17. Why would we necessarily believe the secret service?

They supported Trump. Remember Biden replaced Trump’s secret service detail when he came in office?

[Just_Vote_Dem]

25. Yep n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Do you really think the committee members are so stupid they didn't corroborate her testimony?

"C'mon, man."

[Lovie777]

23. Yep . . ....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. They would have to be blithering idiots not to have corroborated her testimony before offering it

[kentuck]

19. We shall see what they say when they are under oath?

She also testified that he was still very angry after he had returned to the White House.

It is safe to assume that he was angry while he was in the "beast". (limo)

I suspect they will be called to testify.

[Tetrachloride]

24. if they want to testify under oath, fine.

[BlueIdaho]

28. Like they would never lie to protect that traitorous freak

Give me a break.

[yardwork]

30. Maybe that's why Cheney ended today with evidence of witness intimidation.

[riversedge]

33. Here is the actual tweet from Peter Alexander........

lots of comments but Peter has not responded back


@PeterAlexander
🚨 A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.
5:24 PM · Jun 28, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

[riversedge]

36. Jennifer Rubin.............this is weird...............

agree.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=hLtH3bjdU__nHLglKzwrYw


well they already cooperated according to the SS public statement so this is weird

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=hLtH3bjdU__nHLglKzwrYw

[librechik]

108. Remember how all these assholes are denying things and then later J6 has the video?

I would wait to see the corroboration before I leap to conclusions. Secret Service officially agreed with J6 presentation. Let them rebut. Or Engle and Ornato testify. Seems they already did? but not presented so far in testimony.

Hutchinson needs confirmation.

[Totally Tunsie]

37. Thanks - hadn't seen that. Just saw him on air.

That's as I stated in my OP.

[Mr.Bill]

39. So...

unnamed source. For now I will go with person testifying on national TV under oath. For now.

[Scrivener7]

45. Ok. Then have them do it.

[kcr]

97. He has since tweeted this:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Torchlight]

35. I'm betting ten bucks neither one would testify to that under oath.

I'm betting 99% of the criticisms she's getting falls into that same space of 'empty assertion without fear of legal consequence'

[Nevilledog]

38. HE WASN'T IN THE LIMO

Come on people.... Don't help spread the misinformation.

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

January 6th Committee
@January6thCmte
·
Follow
Today's testimony makes clear that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol with the armed mob, despite warnings not to do so from his advisors.

When the Secret Service ruled out the possibility, the former President erupted in anger in the Suburban he was riding in.


Watch on Twitter
12:36 PM · Jun 28, 2022

[Totally Tunsie]

40. Suburban Limo.

Sorry - generically using "limo" as shortcut.

[Nevilledog]

48. Big difference. There was not an extra row of seats.

Remember when he had covid and made the SS drive him around the block? That's a Suburban and he's clearly in a place he could reach the front seat.

They're trying to discredit Hutchinson by saying he couldn't have reached it.

[Totally Tunsie]

59. There have been numerous accounts of the story now, and the vehicle

has been described as "The Beast" (Cassidy H.), the "Suburban" (J6 Committee tweet), the "presidential limousine/SUV" (Peter Alexander), etc. Personally, I don't know one from the other.

[Nevilledog]

63. There's a video ffs

Link to tweet

Tweet text:

January 6th Committee
@January6thCmte
·
Follow
Today's testimony makes clear that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol with the armed mob, despite warnings not to do so from his advisors.

When the Secret Service ruled out the possibility, the former President erupted in anger in the Suburban he was riding in.


Watch on Twitter
12:36 PM · Jun 28, 2022

[Totally Tunsie]

65. To me, that shows a large car. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you

if it was The Beast, a Suburban, or Cadillac Escalade. They all look the same to me. A video doesn't help that.

[panader0]

69. That's trump in the second row, rider's side.

He was videoed getting into the car. Same seat he was in when he made the SS drive him around
the Bethesda crowd when he had covid.

[Totally Tunsie]

72. Fine, but that still doesn't tell me what kind of car it is by sight.

To me, it's a big black car - period (tm Sean Spicer).

[Roland99]

103. It's painfully obvious to anyone with even a passing knowledge that it's a 4-door SUV

Like the millions sold across the country every year

[Totally Tunsie]

105. Well, of course, but that SAME "4-door SUV" has been called

"The Beast", the Suburban, the presidential limo, the SUV etc. all within the day's testimony by witnesses, the Press, and our own DUers. So I'm supposed to know EXACTLY what it is by seeing a few second clip of a car pulling away? Its a black car - a SUV. I called it a limo - BFD! From now on, I'll call it a CAR and leave it at that.

[Roland99]

110. 1) "The Beast" is an actual limo. A stretched car. 2) the video CLEARLY shows an SUV. NOT a car.

why do you keep calling it a car?

Ya know what...I really don't care.

[Totally Tunsie]

111. Give it a rest.

You win...from now on, it's a VEHICLE. Happy now?

BTW:

car
/kär/
noun
a four-wheeled road vehicle that is powered by an engine and is able to carry a small number of people.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. Rachel going over this now with WaPo's Carol Leonnig

Apparently 45 was NOT in "The Beast" but in a different (smaller) SUV.

[Totally Tunsie]

81. I never said he was in The Beast.

I called it a (generic) limo, and got blasted for that! It's a black car.

[BumRushDaShow]

83. Am not attacking you!

Saw your post literally as it was being discussed on TV!!

(I think it was the Suburban - whatever was used during the COVID/drive around Walter Reed vehicle)

[Totally Tunsie]

86. Thanks! After 3 hours of fending off a whole bunch of critique,

I'm a little shopworn at this point. Pardon my frazzle.

[BumRushDaShow]

88. Well I know my brain is fried!

Have been going non-stop since 4:30 this morning.

[Totally Tunsie]

90. Yowza! Time to wind down.

Have a good night.

[BumRushDaShow]

92. Yeah I gotta get in the bed

Been a big news dump day.

[Totally Tunsie]

93. Now imagine how "45" feels right now!

[BumRushDaShow]

94. Well he did get in the news cycle

[2naSalit]

98. The beast...

Though we know it as one specific vehicle, it is much like AF1, Whichever vehicle the POTUS is in, is AF1 or in reference to the limo, "The Beast" because it is short and everyone knows what it means within the WH.

So that one was a Suburban, if you look at the lights and other features, you can see that. It has been explained by several sources now.

[Totally Tunsie]

107. "You can see that" only if you know those are features of a Suburban.

I am not personally aware of the exact design of said car.

[2naSalit]

112. Oh well.

[Mr.Bill]

43. Well, that would make it a bit more logistically believable that he reached

for the steering wheel. I can't picture that from the back seat of a limo.

The main thing I question is would Trump even know where they had to turn and which way to get to the Capitol? I doubt he's driven anything but a golf cart in the last 50 years. I mean I haven't given it a whole lot of thought, but it struck me as odd when I heard it.

[H2O Man]

106. Yes, but....

what if she said the vehicle was dark blue and others testify it was actually an extra-medium dark blue? Wouldn't that be proof that the sky is falling?

[JoanofArgh]

49. Trump probably had that driver on the phone as soon as Hutchinson brought it up

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=uxTB2UW_dOulfJi_pEVxgQ


I doubt the Committee would question her about this , if they didn't have corroboration.

[Demsrule86]

51. Some should carefully consider before perjuring themselves...someone else might tell the truth.

[Tree Lady]

54. I wonder who is his secret service now?

Are they in touch with others?

[mcar]

55. I'll wait till their testimony

This is GOP pushback and, as usual, media is falling for it.

[JoanofArgh]

58. Yep, totally.

[LenaBaby61]

60. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[Generic Brad]

61. Republicans are "Dan Rathering" her over this

She told the truth of what she heard, but they are focusing on a small, inconsequential and possibly inaccurate detail and using that as a basis to discredit her entirely.

I've seen this shitty tactic repeatedly from them.

[edhopper]

62. So

Peter Alexander
@PeterAlexander
·
Jun 28, 2022
🚨 A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.

He didn't "lunge" he just leaned forward to grab it.
And he put his hand toward Engle, not "assaulted " him.

Clever word play in lue of a denial.

[machoneman]

64. Gee, maybe the hard R's at the SS made the claim that it didn't happen. What makes anyone think...

,,,a MAGA backing senior SS official is telling the truth? Subpoena the driver and agent now!

[Bev54]

66. Yeah that came from SS but not from their mouths

Put them under oath first, but I suspect that the committee would not have put her in a public setting to say that if they did not have corroboration. That would be bad for all.

[panader0]

67. She may not have seen spanky throw the plate,

but she said she saw the broken plate and the ketchup on the wall.

[Totally Tunsie]

68. Thus an assumption, which is fine before the Committee,

but would be considered hearsay in a court of law.

hear·say
(noun)

LAW
the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"

[Stallion]

70. See the Word "Usually" in Your Definition-that Refers to 20+ Exceptions to the Hearsay Rule

[mauserk98]

74. Out of character

An altercation of that type is out of character for trump. He lacks personal courage. He's too cowardly to fire anyone face to face.
I took that piece of testimony with a grain of salt.

[Totally Tunsie]

77. Well, we don't know that for sure.

tRump obviously has a bad temper - I wouldn't put it past him to threaten to choke another person while raging. I'd bet there's a wife or two (or three?) that knows that side of him, not to mention his spawn. Ask Jr. if daddy-o ever belted him.

[Emile]

75. I think the most damning thing is Trump knew his

mob was armed and told them to go down to the capital. This limo story is hearsay.

[tishaLA]

79. This is so unimportant, just like the ketchup on the wall

they're good visuals, but the real story is that he encouraged people to come to a riot, wanted the riot to be as hellish as possible by allowing people with weapons into it, never did anything to stop it, and did it so he could overturn the results of an election and engage in a coup.

[Totally Tunsie]

80. And yet you took the time to comment.

Personally, I'm finding all the testimony - no matter how small - to be important.

[tishaLA]

82. Yes I took the time to comment because

it's the catnip people like Peter Alexander, Maggie, et al chase so they can immunize the larger story by presenting a secondary detail as if it's as important as the plot to stage a coup.

[Totally Tunsie]

84. I find a direct denial by the parties specified, countering a key witness'

testimony, to be important. YMMV

[tishaLA]

85. It does vary because the detail is umimportant.

[Totally Tunsie]

87. Your choice. Have a nice night.

[tishaLA]

89. SQUIREL!

[Totally Tunsie]

91. ??

[uponit7771]

96. +1

[uponit7771]

95. YEP !!

[Vinca]

100. The people involved - everyone in the car with Trump - should testify under oath.

And while they're at it, I'd like the valet to testify about how many times he's cleaned up a temper tantrum mess in the dining room off the Oval Office.

[allegorical oracle]

102. She said she personally helped clean ketchup off the dining room wall and saw broken porcelain on

the floor -- the valet told her that TFG had thrown it. Hearsay, but the J6 investigation isn't a court. Insofar as the driving incident, it's possible that some of the secret service agents are drumpf admirers who enjoy traveling to his resorts with him.
CNN now reporting the agents are willing to testify under oath that the SUV incident never happened.

[Totally Tunsie]

109. "CNN now reporting the agents are willing to testify under oath the SUV incident never happened."

which is what was posted in the OP.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

104. If they testify under oath, they become fair game for a lot of questions they won't want to

answer.

Pleading the 5th on anything, after denying what Cassidy Hutchinson reported she heard, will immediately shatter their credibility.