11 million more people voted for Trump in 2020

[edhopper]

than voted for him in 2016. It was objectively obvious that he was a lying, criminal idiot.
Yet more people supported him after 4 years of his shitshow.
And people wonder why I have lost my faith in the voters?

And before you jump on me, again, for being negative, it's a politics discussion board, not a support group. I am not here to make you feel good.

[radicalleft]

1. Won't get any argument from me...

They are emboldened...

[calimary]

59. ... or from me, either.

[TwilightZone]

2. A little over 11 million, not 20

2016: 62,984,828
2020: 74,216,154

Your point stands. 2020 should have been a blowout of historic proportions. It was a huge win for Biden, but nothing like it should have been.

[edhopper]

6. Yep

my mistake. Corrected

[peppertree]

41. One wonders how many of those were ES&S software-fabricated votes

Two can play at that game, Repugs.

[TwilightZone]

81. None of them.

We need to face reality. There are tens of millions of people who will vote for *any* Republican, including Trump, to achieve what the Supreme Court handed them this week. It's not voting machines. It's not phantom hacks. It's tens of millions of real people who want to control women, gut regulations, eliminate taxes for the rich, guns, guns, guns, screw over "others" and revert the country to the 1950s. In some cases, the 1850s.

[Irish_Dem]

3. You are not being negative, you are facing the harsh reality in front of us.

A big chunk of America is fine with their leaders committing criminal acts.

As long as they get white male christian minority rule they are fine with illegal acts.

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. Even if it turns around this November, the GOP is no longer going to certify elections they lose

so I have no problem with what you said.

[Irish_Dem]

5. Red states are working on controlling the election process.

So the problem is not just with the voters.

It is with the MAGAs who control the voting process.

[edhopper]

9. And the voters

elected and re-elected these people.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes. As long as MAGAs get white minority rule, they are fine with idiot and criminal leaders.

[Eliot Rosewater]

16. which is WHY I have been on here for months or more PLEADING FOR SOMEONE who has the ear

of high profile Democrats to get them to go on Meet THe PRess or similar and on purpose but they pretend by accident and let the F word fly while describing the END OF DEMOCRACY situation we are in and that way it goes VIRAL on YouTube and the

ONE

HUNDRED

MILLION

Americans who saw NO REASON to vote in 2020 and most who dont own TV's might SEE IT and do something

[brush]

7. You left out how many more voted for Biden than Hillary.

Ya do know it was a high turn out election, right?

[edhopper]

11. Yes

but besides the point

[brush]

15. How many more voted for Joe? If it's about equal to trump's...

increase, there is no point.

[edhopper]

20. That after 4 years

he would gain voters, tells us volumes about American voters.
And they elected more Republicans to boot in 2020.

[brush]

25. I get your point but Hillary got 2.9M more than trump, while...

Biden got over 7M more than trump.

We probably have to wait until '22 and '24 to see if red is really trending more than blue, despite what SCOTUS just ruled as women are pissed and the J6 Committee hearings may change many minds on trump/republicans.

[edhopper]

26. We would hope so

but I don't have faith they will.

[jaxexpat]

64. An observation, perhaps?

The American electorate, of both stripes, seems to be more concerned about voting. It's about 60 years too late but it's not a bad sign, necessarily.

It's like the guys driving the Titanic who had that "ah-ha" moment just as the water approached their knees. "It's bad about hitting that iceberg and proof that the unsinkability claim was untrue. At least we can agree on that, I suppose."

[dflprincess]

84. Just looked it up. Biden got 15.4 million votes than Clinton.

Clinton 2016 = 65,844,954

Biden 2020 = 81,268,924

Total difference =15,423,970

[brush]

85. That's way more than the 11m more trump got in 2020.

[dflprincess]

94. Yup!

[W_HAMILTON]

8. You are being negative. More Americans voted for Trump's opponent...

...than they did Trump, not once, but

[edhopper]

14. Not the point

especially with how the Senate is configured.

[RussBLib]

17. truly

After seeing him, up close, for 4 years, massively more Democrats came out to vote against him.

Instead of praising the American people for showing up and kicking him out, you'd (edhopper) rather focus on the dark side, and the idiots out there who still voted for him.

Go for it.

[edhopper]

21. Yes

because these same voters gave us a small majority in the House and a 50/50 Senate that can't pass Biden's agenda.

So I don't see the reason to sunshine ahead.

[RussBLib]

23. quite a number of bills have passed

some with bi-partisan support. We need more. More Dems in the Senate and House would most likely result in more of Biden's agenda passing.

But you'd rather focus on nothing getting done. It's pointless. You are locked into the dark side.

Time for lunch, Eyeore.

[edhopper]

24. But none of the major things we need

to save the country.

[RussBLib]

28. haha

you're hopeless. Infrastructure? Didn't need it. Stimulus from Covid? Pointless. All or nothing!

They didn't do the biggest stuff! Waaa!

another world is possible. Nah, too late.

cya

[edhopper]

29. Voting Rights,

Climate Change? BBB? Tax reform? Minimum wage? What they did is not enough for what this country needs. And after this year, nothing else will be done.

Just go back to November and December of 2020 and see what people here said we are going to do.

[lees1975]

49. Very little has been turned back, Biden has passed the majority of his agenda

and unified NATO. This is why Democrats have a messaging problem.

[edhopper]

56. Huh?

Little has been turned back? WTF

And not even close to the majority of his agenda, not by half.
Voting Rights, Tax Reform, Minimum Wage, BBB....

[Autumn]

88. Change that can't to won't. We know who won't support Biden's agenda. And they were elected and

supported by Democrats. Funny thing about elections. Some times a Democrat wins and sometimes a Republican wins. Happens about every four years But yeah put the blame on the ones who voted because they didn't vote enough.

[edhopper]

91. My post was about those 11 million more who voted for Trump

but I will add those who don't vote because "both parties are the same" BS.

Those two were supported by the Dems because without them we would have lost the Senate and Mitch would be in charge.

[Autumn]

92. Mitch seems to be in charge anyway.

[edhopper]

93. Not really

While I see how much Manchin and Simena are blocking, they are still passing some legislation and importantly, appointing judges. With a GOP Senate, no bill would get to the floor and no judges would be confirmed.

[RKP5637]

10. As usual, you speak/write the truth! n/t

[sop]

13. Well said.

Not only have I lost faith in voters, I've come to detest non-voters.

[Samrob]

18. 11 million more people found out it was ok to hate certain people to clamp down on women. nt

[JT45242]

19. Yep -- fueled by hatred of the browning of America or simple rich people greed

I am MORE appalled by the asshats who voted for ...

Moscow Mitch in KY who blocked everything that might help all but the richest Kentuckians from even coming to a vote

Leningrad Lindsay who has done nothing for any of his constituents who make less than $400K

Gym Jordan who protected a rapist menace at OSU that should cost the Ohio university system hundreds of millions of dollars

Susan 'very concerned' Collins -- who also has done nothing for Maine ...and guaranteed a return to back alley abortions across the country with her "He has learned his lesson now schtick" and support of Beer Bong

... tRump is only the tip of the iceberg of the party of deplorables.

But the Wisconsin gerrymander model wherein Democratic candidates get the majority of the votes in the state legislature but somehow the Rethugs have a supermajority of seats is going to the norm rather than the exception with this bunch of criminals and their enablers on the USSC.

This isn't pessimistic. It is a clear statement of the clear and present danger that American democracy faces.

I just hope that some civilized country like Canada or New Zealand has a job for my skill set and will give me a visa to work there.

[edhopper]

22. Yes

Trump is just the tip of the iceberg.

[GoneOffShore]

27. You nailed it.

[cloudboy07]

44. trump was just a republican stooge ! shit has been going on for year's !

[Lil Liberal Laura]

30. The Dumbing Down of America

Can't say we weren't warned!

[Escurumbele]

38. We are warned all the time through literature, movies, etc. this is a country that doesn't think

anymore.

I remember coming out of the movie "Avatar" (the one with the blue people), and all I heard were guys talking about how hot the blue women were, and the effects, etc. but the real message of the movie? Lost.

The same with so many books warning us since the 1920s about the fragility of our Democracy, Sinclair Lewis, "It Can't Happen Here", George Orwell "1984", "Animal Farm", and so many books out there every year, but it seems that people don't grasp the messages.

And TV has done a lot of damage to the USA society as well, they have created a culture of lazy thinkers. I cannot believe how people still laugh about recycled jokes on sitcoms, its so obvious.

Anyway, you are correct, USA citizens have been dumbed down, it is by design because you can manipulate the ignorant very easy.

[hay rick]

31. I guess I should feel helpless.

Or did I miss the point?

[edhopper]

33. No,

but you shouldn't think that this or any other single issue will mean a giant surge for Democrats.

[Escurumbele]

45. Never helpless, talk to anyone who will listen, and to those who won't? talk to them in parabolas

it worked for Jesus, I guess.

There are many ways to talk to people where you can open their eyes, many of those who vote republican don't understand that those he votes for talk well but act evil, and you can point that out in very subtle ways, as if you were not talking bad about them.

I can tell you what I did with a friend of mine who was a diehard republican. I congratulated her because, as a woman, she understood her place in society, for one she understood that women should never make as much as a man for the same job, to which she objected so I pointed out how her republican leaders voted against the "Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009", and have always opposed giving women equal rights, and then I went on with other things. She didn't say much, but she had the look of "Wow, I didn't know that, WTF?"

Whether she voted for trump or not, I don't know, but at least I made her think. My thought is that if we can open one mind for every ten we talk to, that is a win-win. A win for Democrats, Democracy, and a win for them who will not get conned again.

[Mr. Evil]

32. I'll never believe TFG got 11 million more votes

in 2020 than in 2016. His reasoning for losing in 2020 is that the Democrats cheated more and better than he did.

[edhopper]

34. I am taking this as

sarcasm. Yes?

[Mr. Evil]

52. My thinking...

I may be totally wrong but, maybe TFG was whining so much after his resounding defeat was because he was told the fix was in. That he would have a mandate by receiving the most votes ever in a presidential election. But, they didn't realize that most voters were so repulsed by him they came out in droves to vote for President Biden.

Like I said, I may be wrong but, I don't put anything past the Party of Death.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

42. On his screwed up mente negates to understand that more voters

..came out than before in history and that while he got more votes than in 2016 Biden got fucking more votes. Sabes, ffg is not only a p#$@## p#$@, es un pendejo [fucking moron!]

[Note: P$#$@# p#@# ..translation..can't translate now 90yr old parent will and can wash my mouth out with soap or give una cachetada (slap.] 😱

[PatrickforB]

35. I don't know, Ed. I'm definitely feeling some warm fuzzies from your OP ;)

But now, we have a HUGE, GIANT talking point that we can all harp on 24/7 right up until the general election.

I don't know about you and the others who read this, but I'm going to be on the phones making calls in support of Democrats running in my state.

The thing for us to do now is focus, focus on educating the more ignorant portions of the electorate - Every single person who has a mother, sisters, daughters, and granddaughters ought to be willing to crawl over broken glass to vote Democratic in November and get these clowns out of office.

[Escurumbele]

36. I actually congratulate you for keeping your faith on voters that long, I lost it many, many years

before you did.

Political ignorance and fanatism is predominant in the USA. I always laugh when people criticize the fanatics in the middle east, but we are worst, or at a minimum exactly the same. How can anyone even contemplate the thought of voting for trump is beyond me, but I know many do it because they are fanatics of the republican party, they don't care, they will vote for a mass murderer if he/she has an (R) by their name.

For me to see a woman applauding the idiot from New Mexico when he said "I am voting 'no' to confirm the votes, NOT BECAUSE OF FACTS OR ANY PROOFS BUT BECAUSE OF MY GUT FEELING." was a very sad moment, people openly objecting to facts, the truth and applauding that treasonous behaviour.

I am not being negative, I have always been a very positive person, positive to a fault, but it comes a time when we have to see things for what they are, the USA and the World are going into a "1984", its not 100% people's fault, the Democratic governments have not provided all of what they said they would, when you see so much poverty around you one has to expect that for the next elections people will either believe the nationalistic lies or that knowing the lies, they will still vote for the crooks just to get even thinking that their lives are already screwed up by those who proclaimed they would help, so now screw them, what have I got to loose? That is the real danger, people's anger.

If trump and the other crooks do not go to jail, kiss the USA Democratic system goodbye, its almost guaranteed.

[gab13by13]

37. Don't blame the voters for Magat control of the state Houses,

or for Magat control of the federal House. The GQP got to gerrymander in 2010 and again in 2020. I live and vote in Pa. and every year in the past 2 decades more voters voted Democratic in Pa. and Republicans gained seats. The Magats are working on a plan to elect Senators not state wide, maybe the same goes for governor and AG and SOS.

With the fascist Supreme Court the Magats can rig elections for generations.

Just wait till 2024 when Democrats have more seats up for election in the Senate. By 2024 the Magats may have a system in place to elect Senators without using a state wide vote.

[edhopper]

57. I do blame the QGOP

But if enough voters had a brain in their head, there would be enough votes to stop them. But they don't, and in too many Red States they get a big majority anyway.

[NNadir]

39. One can claim that one's purpose is not to make anyone feel good...

...but that doesn't mean that the people so addressed are compelled to agree to make the claimant feel wise or insightful.

If I had contempt for democracy, there's a political party in this country I could join, but I won't do that.

My perception is that that party is filled with impetuous and tiresome old cranks. I may be old, but I try to avoid being a crank.

[edhopper]

58. I have no problem with people disagreeing here

I have a problem with them telling me to STFU.

[NNadir]

67. OK. I'll stick to thinking it rather than saying it. There are, of couse,

...many people in my party with whom I disagree, particularly on issues in energy, and who I privately wish would "stfu" but there's really no value in confronting them, is there?

If one wishes to proudly proclaim fatalism and/or the claim to be "above it all" as a reason for an assertion of intellectually or morally superior to "the peasants" who feel otherwise, there isn't much I can do about it.

I'm not into announcements of futility; I see them as weak attempts at justifying uselessness or laziness, it doesn't matter which.

I certainly wouldn't want to be ruled by this sort, the inflated, which is why I oppose Trumpism.

Have a great weekend.

[Silent3]

63. I do have contempt for democracy, just less contempt for it than the alternatives

Mere democracy isn't enough for good government.

Only with an engaged, rational public, well-educated to recognize and reject demagoguery and wild conspiracies, to understand how the branches of government interact, having the emotional maturity to accept compromise when needed rather than making to perfect the enemy of the good, etc., etc., will democracy produce truly satisfactory outcomes.

That doesn't mean I won't find to keep the current far-from-perfect democracy we now cling to over the authoritarianism that I fear might be on the way.

I'll certainly never succeed in running for office myself, however, because I couldn't, with enough sincerity, cough up the necessary platitudes praising the voters I would need to have vote for me.

[NNadir]

69. I avoid confusing theory with reality. In reality there are..

...two options, authoritarian oligarchy or imperfect democracy.

I suggest that authoritarians are in general people who feel themselves to look down on the larger mass of humanity.

Personally I trust the greater mass of people, their faults well known as surely they are, to those who proclaim themselves so privileged to demean them.

I suspect that inequality drives ignorance and that a statement of being immune to ignorance is a statement that one is unequal to one's supposed "lesser beings."

I'm an old man, and one of the joys of having lived a long time is to remember one's own ignorance and take pride in having addressed as much as can be addressed.

The way to overcome ignorance is to teach, and experience shows that one cannot teach without empathy. We have people who are clearly detestable thugs to be sure, but as one who has seen lights out of the darkness, I believe Democracy is the only remotely ethical system of government, precisely because we can and do learn, and doing so is best accomplished in a spirit where we recognize that all people enjoy the freedom afforded by diversity.

[Silent3]

73. Actually, the current crop of authoritarian supporters...

...aren't people who so much look down on everyone else (though that is part of it), as people who feel looked down upon, and are angry about it.

Do I look down on a lot of other people? Sure, guilty as charged, but also only in some areas of life, not in all aspects. Not because I think I'm free of ignorance or error, however, but only because I know I do better than the not-so-commendable average when it comes to trying to stay informed and knowing how to string a coherent thought or two together.

I'd gain nothing by the false modesty of insisting without evidence that, say, Trump voters have a lot to teach me about smartly judging politicians or political issues.

[NNadir]

76. The first paragraph is perhaps a key statement of causality.

The second paragraph has a limited sample and inherent bias. It may suggest a place for "true modesty."

With respect to the third paragraph I would suggest that the process of being educated includes the ability to recognize ignorance. I am not suggested that anyone should engage in "false modesty" in order to embrace ignorance; only that one understand its source.

I recognize the ignorance, and I abhor it, but declaring an end to democracy to install myself as arbiter of who is and is not informed and who is merely "average" is not, in my view, the proper way to address ignorance. In fact, if you ask me, and perhaps you don't want to do so, arrogance can be and often is a source of ignorance.

I have spent my life working to be the dumbest person in the room as often as is possible and have profited greatly by it. I am glad that all the people in those rooms have not felt inclined to push me away in disgust or to declare I wasn't even worthy of being in it.

[Silent3]

80. Who's declararing an end to democracy?

Stating democracy in the US is in grave peril is not the same as declaring an end to democracy.

I don't need to be an arbiter myself concerning if I'm more politically informed than average. While none of such things are perfect tests, collectively I'd say that all of the tests of political and current events knowledge I've ever taken, online and elsewhere, where I consistently rate at the top (and do so without ever feeling like I'm anywhere close to being an expert, and knowing quite well many others are far better informed than myself), I'd say it's a fairly objective conclusion that I'm better than average at such things.

It's modesty about my own knowledge, knowing that it's far from extensive, that makes what passes for average seem frightfully dull.

I haven't encountered any tests yet that rank a person on their knowledge of, say, common logical fallacies, or the ability to recognize propaganda techniques, but knowing how little such things are taught in American schools, I'm still fairly certain I objectively rank higher than average on such things.

I'd at least like to hope that someday such things can be largely addressed via education. I don't know how far the electorate can be lifted by such education, but I'd love to get the chance to find out some day. I'm not, however, holding my breath for that day.

As for "addressing" ignorance, I suppose it depends on whether by "addressing" you mean talking about it, or solving it. At the moment I'm only talking about it. I'll freely admit I'm ignorant about the best way to solve ignorance. That doesn't mean I'm going to always be quiet about bemoaning the situation we're in just because I can't offer solutions.

I think it's going to take a lot of good luck, like favorable changes in the economy, or the J6 hearings and the end of Roe v. Wade having a bigger impact on voters than I dare hope for, to save our collective asses from the Republican authoritarian threat. I rather doubt that keeping my worries and opinions to myself, and refraining from anything but uplifting messages of hope, is what the future of democracy in the US hinges upon.

[gratuitous]

40. Let's see . . .

2016:
Democratic Ticket: 65,853,514 48.2%
Republican Ticket: 62,984,828 46.1%

2020:
Democratic Ticket: 81,268,924 51.3%
Republican Ticket: 74,216,154 46.9%

So the former guy increased his percentage of the popular vote by a whopping 0.8% while the Democrats increased their percentage by a miniscule 3.1%. More than 26 million people voted in 2020 than in 2016, with the Democrats increasing their numbers by 15.4 million votes and the Republicans picking up an additional 11.2 million votes in 2020.

Which voters specifically have you lost faith in? Democrats turned a respectable 2016 showing into a blowout in 2020, completely reversing the three-rail billiard shot that resulted in an anomalous Republican victory in 2016. What have the Republicans done since 2020 that you think is going to turn that 2020 showing around?

[Silent3]

43. Even 30% of the population voting for Trump would sour my opinion of the voting public

The OP is quite right at being disgusted that more Americans voted for Trump in 2020, after getting a chance to see him in action, than voted for him in 2016. Even if there were a lot more Biden voters too, this shows we have an enormous mass of ignorance and intolerance and stupidity that has to be fought down all the time, time after time, election after election.

[edhopper]

54. Thank you

[Tommymac]

46. This is a board whose stated purpose is to promote GOTV ... Democratic Votes.

Constant negativism without providing solutions does NOT promote this goal. Instead, it disheartens others and contributes to apathy. A myriad of studies support this, google is a friend.

IMO Hard hitting no holds barred CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism is useful.

That is all.



#GOTV2022
#VOTEBLUE2022

[brooklynite]

82. GOTV is also dependent on clear knowledge of the voters and their behavior...

I'd rather anticipate support for my opponent and plan on that basis, rather than live in a good news bubble.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. LOVE. ..". It's not a support group". Lol!!!!!!!

As you see the glass half full ( their crap) I see it half empty.... A challenge that WE have - to get to the minds of these non-thinkers.

I KNOW we didn't want the likes of disruptors on the J6 hearing. Very wise. BUT the flip side is that Rs aren't watching because they think it's one sided. Everything is gray it's not black and white.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

48. I have lost faith in faith.

That people who CLAIM to be christians, as in good, generous, kind people of conscience and faith and that believe in the Ten Commandments and scriptures, are still voting for/supporting this career liar/conman/adulterer/criminal and abomination before god. That they attempt to justify/rationalize this is puke-inducing.

I no longer believe anyone who supports trump yet says that they're devout christians. You simply cannot support trump and be true to your faith. They are mutually-exclusive. Polar opposites.

I have lost faith that faith will prevail.

[cilla4progress]

50. I completely agree,

Ed, if it means anything to ya!

Also, remember - most Americans are pro-choice and want background checks.

Congress and SCOTUS do NOT represent the actual will of the people!!!

[ancianita]

51. 15,437,962 million more people voted for Biden in 2020 than for Clinton in 2016 when she still

won the popular vote by 3 million

It's not that you're not here to make people feel good, it's that you're not here to tell the whole truth.

[WinstonSmith4740]

53. Agree with you.

I've never been able to figure it out, except Trump is exceptionally good at one thing...cheating. I've often thought, that aside from the obvious, this whole "Stop the steal" bullshit was basically slight of hand to get people to look over THERE instead of over HERE. Like at the voting machines that gave McConnell, Graham, and Collins almost the exact same margin of victory, after all of them were being defeated soundly in the polls. McConnell managed to claw his way to a 35% approval rating the day before the election, and somehow won by 20 points, AND won a Democratic precinct that no Rethug had won in like 80 years by some ridiculous margin. Graham had been on Fox a couple of days before the election whining and begging for money. Collins was, of course, concerned.

They cheated, of course. They just didn't cheat enough because I think they underestimated the anger of the American people and the turnout.

Remember this? Money line at approximately 25 seconds.

[Quixote1818]

55. Yes, it's fucking bizzaro world lately. The more corrupt he is the more votes he gets

He even got more Hispanic and Black votes after all the obvious racism. It boggles the mind.

[pnwmom]

60. They were happy because they got the Supreme Court they wanted. Nothing else mattered to them. nt

[edhopper]

62. But I am told how

60% of voters support abortion rights. Many voted against their position.

[pnwmom]

74. The 11 million new voters didn't support abortion rights.

They probably wanted someone more overtly religious than Trump, but he came through for them, so they rewarded him with their support.

[mountain grammy]

61. couldn't agree more..

[FrankTC]

65. The Same Good Souls Voted For Adolf

Tremendous isomorphism then and now. Probably in Germany back then there were more vigorous parties on the left (communists, socialists) than we have now, but the folk on the right then and now bear similarities. Including service as pack mules for capitalists. I used to find it astonishing that Germans would support fascists, but now the fascists are everywhere here. “We need to get out the vote, we need a constitutional amendment, we need to impeach Kavanaugh, we need to lock up Trump” — none of this. We need more coordinated social strategies that have power and influence alongside the formal civics-political process, which is rigged and gerrymandered and stacked against us.

[kairos12]

66. Reality we face.

[LymphocyteLover]

68. Yes, it's depressing but the reasons are complicated and more importantly we won

[ecstatic]

70. I don't think so

He cheated his way in the first time and did the same thing in 2020, but it failed.

[TomCADem]

71. Classic Russian Talking Point. Trash Democracy

Once again, you have so called progressives urging disengagement from voting while the right eagerly votes while trashing the legitimacy of elections.

[ForgedCrank]

72. You know that tired old saying,

"you can't fix stupid". It's unfortunately very true.

Putting that aside for now, I think this weeks court events will prove to be a very strong call for Democratic voter turnout.
This can all be fixed, and it can be done right this time so we don't have to endure these crazy cycles in politics anymore.

[pnwmom]

75. 7 MILLION more people voted for BIDEN, and almost 3 MILLION more for Hillary.

This wasn't a problem with the Voters. It's a problem with the Electoral College.

First Gore won by 500 K, but lost the EC.
Then Hillary won by 2.9, but lost the EC.
Then Biden won by 7 million, and just barely managed to win the EC.

What happens with a Democrat wins by 10 million and STILL loses the EC.

Will you still blame the voters then?

[edhopper]

78. It isn't only the voters

but they are a big part of it. It is also our election system that allows minority rule, much of it left over from slavery.

[DemocraticPatriot]

77. How many of the new Trump voters were

actually alive?




With so many prominent Republicans publicly abandoning Trump in 2020, how is that number even possible?
It is a puzzle to me.

If it weren't for so much analyzing of the voter data which has happened, I would be convinced that there was significant REPUBLICAN voting fraud in that election.... but there were only a few who cast ballots on behalf of their dead relatives.

[edhopper]

79. Even though that would be a terrible thing for our democracy

I almost wish election fraud was the reason and not the stupidity of so many voters.

[ymetca]

83. Representative Democracy

died along time ago. It's as obsolete as whale oil and buggy whips. It was only concocted because we had no other way to implement a large scale Democracy at that time. We do now.

We could have a true one person, one vote, Direct Democracy right now, with the technology we have.

Instead of running for election, our representatives would be chosen like jury duty, and we could all vote by smartphone on every single bill. You take two years off your job, with recompense. Any coalitions of these jurors can propose legislation to this new Congress, have hearings, discuss, haggle, bring in experts, and so on, just like we do now. Normal procedure for electing heads of committees, and so on. Only every individual in America gets to vote directly on each piece of legislation.

Instead of a few hundred so-called "representatives", there should be several thousand, if not more, representing all sorts of interests as folks are chosen for duty from all across the nation.

And no need for any "cooling saucer" of Senate plutocrats, bought off by special interests. That was just those rich landowners afraid of losing their slave labor. Same with the "electoral college". No need. States rights? Nope. Just all us individuals, wherever we might be. Time to do your duty!

It could be done.

Would this make densely populated areas more influential than sparsely populated ones? Yep. It would. But then, that's where most of the people are, right?

But, but .. "Land Scarlett!" Yeah, enough of that shit. It's killing the whole planet, all these turf wars.

[Martin Eden]

86. They are all around us, and you can't always tell who they are

I play on a softball team with mostly older guys. I have no doubt some of them are Trumpers, but I really don't want to know.

It is so depressing when it turns out someone you like who seems like a really decent fellow turns out to be a Trump voter -- especially the 2nd time, after four years of that shitshow.

Many people only care about what they perceive to be in their immediate financial interest, and don't pay a lot of attention to politics otherwise.

Many others fall for the GOP branding itself as the Party of God, country, and family values. And if they get their information from Fox News they are brainwashed, plain and simple.

[Liberal In Texas]

87. And I will add that many voted for TFG not because they liked him, but because they think

Democrats are terrible and would just never vote for them. They have all that misinformation and prejudice from the propaganda they hear.

My wife has a friend that is a life-long repub and the widow of a wealthy banker and has all these misconceptions about how the repubs are better for business and the dems are responsible for the high gas prices etc. My wife says that when they get together they tip-toe around politics because otherwise they probably couldn't be friends.

[Martin Eden]

89. Then there are the real deplorables who see TFG for what he is

And they love him for it.

[yardwork]

90. We have to confront it. Millions of Americans are ignorant assholes.

They watch Fox News and listen to hate radio because they're drawn in by what they agree with - racism, sexism, resentments. Then they let themselves get more and more radicalized into deeper racism, sexism, and resentments.

[treestar]

95. higher turn out on both sides

fortunately went to the advantage of the Democratic candidate.

[edhopper]

96. Yes

but a higher turn out for Trump means after the 4 year shit show, 11 million people were more motivated to vote after seeing what he was.

[treestar]

97. I hear you

Yes, those who voted in 2016 are slightly less egregiously stupid and evil than those who voted for him after 4 years of his crap.