Where does DU stand?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

43 votes, 8 passes | Time left: Time expired
	We got to do more in Ukraine
	39 (91%)
	Stay out of it.
	4 (9%)
	8 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[SheltieLover]

1. Kicking for visibility

🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Would love to see people define "we got to do more."

[Lady Freedom Returns]

8. Whatever it takes to back Russia off.

That's my opinion.

[Ocelot II]

9. What do you think that would be?

Does trying to get Russia to "back off" include inciting nuclear war?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

20. Do you really think that setting back is going to keep him from using them on our allies?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. What do you mean by "back off"? You need to be precise when talking war.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

27. Putin is already said the sanctions are an act of war.

He has Conquest on his mind and he's not going to stop.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. Which doesn't answer my question, but okay.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. You mean like the destruction of the WORLD? nt

[manicdem]

81. my ideas

Sanctioning Russian gas and oil, and any country that continues to buy it from them, to include China.

Start it at one year. If Russia continues to escalate just keep extending it to two years, and so on. That's their weakness.

[WarGamer]

3. Why don't you say US boots on the ground, yes or no?

I think we should do more... but nothing that endangers US lives.

[Ocelot II]

4. What does "do more" mean?

[WarGamer]

7. the poster doesn't want to straight up ask "boots on the ground" or not.

[USALiberal]

5. Silly poll....

Do more could mean 100s of things!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

13. Yup and we need to do them

[USALiberal]

15. Nice try

[LakeArenal]

6. It's too complex an issue to answer in a yes or no question.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. Sounds like what were saying before WWII.

[Ocelot II]

12. If the answer is simple, what is it?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

16. Do you want to wait for another Pearl Harbor?

[Ocelot II]

19. So what's the answer?

I don't know what the answer is. However, I am confident that we have capable people in our intelligence, diplomatic, and military services, and they are in far a better position to figure out the best way to proceed than an internet full of armchair generals.

[chowder66]

25. +80000

[MarineCombatEngineer]

33. Nailed it.

[Totally Tunsie]

39. Yup.

[EndlessWire]

45. Isn't this a discussion board? n/t

[Ocelot II]

47. Yes. That's why I asked for an answer to my question.

None has been forthcoming, which means the issue was just thrown out there and is not being addressed by the OP. It is also fair to opine on a discussion board that some ideas are not good ones.

[EndlessWire]

67. Oh, did you? n/t

[Tommymac]

51. This.

[LakeArenal]

32. Whose saying what in WWII?

Yes, war today would be just like WWII…
And our military has not kept up with the times.

SARCASM thingie.

[Ohio Joe]

10. Pass

I don't see my option there... I think we are at just about the right place. We should go a bit faster to get planes into the hands of the Ukrainians, but I also admit I do not know all of the logistics involved. We (the US and our NATO allies) should escalate as the Russians escalate and I think President Biden is walking that fine line very well so far.

[WarGamer]

14. this

[MarineCombatEngineer]

22. THIS!!!!

+100.

[chowder66]

26. +80000

[lapfog_1]

31. As much as they may think they need planes...

I don't think an air force of a few dozen fighter planes will be that useful.

You need working airports and jet fuel for those planes... and ammo, missiles, etc.

And the planes won't stop artillery or missiles.

What the Ukrainians need right now is Iron Dome PLUS a shit ton more stinger / javelin missiles.

To "win" this they one need to destroy all of the equipment that rolled over the border and defend the sky with a decent missile defense.

That puts all of the russian troops outside their armor vehicles and then the civilian civil defense people can pick them off or starve them or simply wait for the russians to surrender.

If you wanted to give the Ukrainians an air force... I guess we could sell them a couple of aircraft carrier task forces. Sail them in to the Black Sea... if we had a year or two for them to learn how to operate the carriers and the weapons and the planes.

[Ohio Joe]

50. OK... That seems to make sense...

I'm not a military man so I kind of assume what I see and hear most (not just here at DU but many places) about what they need is at least close to correct.

I did not know what Iron Dome was, so I looked at wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

Assuming that is reasonably close, I would think they would need a fair number of them to cover all of what they need to cover... I don't know how feasible that is or even how long it would take to get any there and people trained on them. It does look like they are very effective and a process that should get started sooner rather than later though to get them there.

[lapfog_1]

62. they need enough to cover Kyiv and Odessa and Lviv.

it's probably too late to do much for Kharkiv or Mariupol or Kherson (already surrendered).

Odessa (or Odesa) is needed because this is the last link to the Black Sea (major port city)... which they will need to control to get more weapons and ammo and food and medical supplies.

[manicdem]

90. Problems with iron dome

Not sure if Iron Dome is possible.

1. Israel is the only maker and user of the system, so there's no stockpiles to give to Ukraine.

2. It's mainly for rockets and artillery. It's not optimal for aircraft.

3. May not be effective against countermeasures.

4. Russia would destroy them as they are non-mobile and short range.

[Tommymac]

54. Yessir. My feelings too. No choice for us who think things need to b left in the hands of the pros.

And that so far the NATO response to Putin's aggression has been sane, measured and mature overall.

[sarisataka]

21. Does "Do more" include the use of nuclear weapons?

Overall, I find the responses extremely interesting

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. I find it interesting that the majority of those that want an intervention

have never seen actual combat and the horrors associated with it.

[sarisataka]

38. War is easy to those who when they have seen enough

They can turn the channel and watch reruns of the Golden Girls.

It is very different to those of us who have gone into a bunker and tried to determine the number of enemies Kia by counting boots and dividing by 2.

Pick the wrong letter of NBC and there aren't even boots to count.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

40. +100. nt

[Tommymac]

57. Wish more pro-war people could SMELL real War.

I don't believe that stench would ever leave their dreams.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. THIS!!!!

Thank you and you're right, the stench and horrors never really leave you.

[Tommymac]

61. I wish I wasn't. 😢 nt

[sarisataka]

78. They say smell is one of our strongest memory triggers

I agree with that statement

[EndlessWire]

41. What are you going to do?

NOBODY asked Russia to invade a country multiple times to carve out what he wants.

You can't blame anybody for seeing the horrors of war right in front of their faces while Russia inflicts mortal wounds on Ukraine. This IS war, and they see it.

It's a matter of judgment as to what to do. Do we, intervene? Or do we, wait until Super Asshole threatens Poland, Sweden, or the Baltics? Or Moldova? Now he is threatening the whole world. Do we, stop him in Ukraine? Or, do we wait to see if he decides he has had fun there, why not go on to Europe?

I answered the poll. I said I want more done. I want to see Ukraine given all the hardware their hearts desire, plus I want to see NATO fortify Europe's borders with many thousands of troops. I want a troop buildup. Why? Because, that's the name of the game, defending Europe. No appeasement, no fear, just get ready. When he sees this, maybe he will go home. Because if he doesn't see that he can't win, he won't stop in Ukraine.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

43. ...

I answered the poll. I said I want more done. I want to see Ukraine given all the hardware their hearts desire, plus I want to see NATO fortify Europe's borders with many thousands of troops. I want a troop buildup. Why? Because, that's the name of the game, defending Europe. No appeasement, no fear, just get ready. When he sees this, maybe he will go home. Because if he doesn't see that he can't win, he won't stop in Ukraine.

I agree with you on these steps, which are ongoing even as we speak, what I won't agree to is putting boots on the ground inside Ukraine, establishing a CAP over Ukraine, etc.

If Russia steps one foot onto NATO territory, then unleash hell against them, but until then, we do not engage them in open combat.

[EndlessWire]

60. I think that it is important to note

that the nuclear threat is the same, and will remain the same. It will be no different if we engage them in Ukraine, or fight them on NATO soil. This nuclear threat will be trotted out whenever Putin sees a need for control and the use of such a threat. If we respond differently than he expects, maybe we can keep him off kilter. But, we will hear it again and again.

A good reason for the US to not engage (and, because we are a big part of NATO, Europe needs to consider this) is that China seems to be stirring. We have a back door that we need to keep an eye on. The line has been drawn on the Ukrainian front. I think they need a good anti aircraft system sent over, and something that can counter a high altitude bomber. They need food and supplies, too.

Where is the Amazon delivery system when you need it? NAP flying, straight over the building tops. Where are the robots that deliver food?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

63. I would love to see a more robust AAM system

given to Ukraine, something like the American Patriot system or the Israeli Iron Dome system, the only problem I can see is training the Ukrainian Armed Forces on operating it.

Maybe a crash course just to get it operational.

[EndlessWire]

73. Yeah, send something over quickly.

I think the Ukrainian people have shown that they are quick on the uptake and could greatly benefit from such a system. I'll bet you could take a Babushka, train her how to do it, and let her rock and roll.

Not saying that the systems aren't complicated or require effort, but I have confidence that the Ukrainians can learned damn quick how to make it happen. They are damned motivated. Get a trainer in there, show how it's done, scoot and run. Or, just show them at the border, and give it to them to haul wherever they like. I guess we want clean hands. Let it be a surprise to Russia.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

74. That would be the best solution,

imagine the surprise of the Russian bomber pilots as a Patriot obliterates their aircraft.

[EndlessWire]

76. Yeah

War is a bitch. They should land and surrender. They could radio a NATO country, surrender, and land without a hitch. "Engine trouble, Comrade!"

[MarineCombatEngineer]

85. LOL.

"Engine trouble, Comrade!"

That wouldn't be a stretch to believe considering the state of their equipment.

[Ocelot II]

53. Those things are happening now, but it takes time to assemble equipment

and supplies and get them where they need to be. Blinken just announced a "green light" for NATO members to supply aircraft, for example. The US and many other countries are sending weapons, supplies and funds, and many NGOs are offering aid. But nobody can make these things happen instantly.

[Goonch]

23. UNICEF HERE⬇️

https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/unicef-children-crossfire-ukraine-crisis/39542?form=FUNKBHMZQDQ&utm_campaign=20220301_Emergencies&utm_medium=Organic&utm_source=ABCUkraineMarch2022&utm_content=DonateNowABCUkraineMarch2022&ms=Organic_PRL_2022_Emergencies_20220301_ABCUkraineMarch2022_DonateNowABCUkraineMarch2022_none_none&initialms=Organic_PRL_2022_Emergencies_20220301_ABCUkraineMarch2022_DonateNowABCUkraineMarch2022_none_none

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. Options too vague to answer.

What does “do more” mean?

[LakeArenal]

34. Purposely vague?

[Iggo]

30. Putin needs us in this war.

Therefore, stay the fuck out of it.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

37. Yep.

Nothing would unite the Russian people more than propaganda images on Russian TV that shows US/NATO forces in combat with Russian troops, which is what Putin is hoping for.

[CrackityJones75]

35. One of the dumbest posts I have read here.

You are talking about what could possibly escalate to the destruction of the planet and are talking in vague terms.

Define the terms or take down your bait post.

[USALiberal]

42. +1000

[EndlessWire]

65. NO!

The poster hasn't been disrespectful. OP has a right to ask the question or submit a poll. It is a question that we have been struggling with. The answer is not defined. Each person is required to analyze their feelings and then choose an answer. Part of the answer is to discuss options and the reasons therefore.

If you don't like the structure of the poll, then move on. Insulting the OP is not an option for you.

[CrackityJones75]

71. Ok I have the right to say it is incredibly stupid.

Because it is.

Also follow the poster’s multiple spamming of this all over the board in other threads.

[EndlessWire]

79. That is not what you said.

But, good try.

[CrackityJones75]

83. Ya got me!

It is a stupid post. OP should remove it out of embarrassment.

[ibegurpard]

82. Stupid poll

False binary choice between something specific (stay out of it) and something completely open-ended and meaningless (do more).

[CrackityJones75]

86. The poster in other threads

The poster in other threads makes the argument that the US has to do something. When people respond that we are doing things. We are met with “Not enough”. When asked what should be done, we get responses of “whatever it takes” or other vague nonsense. It is bait posting.

[left-of-center2012]

36. Define "Do more"

[Lady Freedom Returns]

44. Whatever it takes to back him off.

We have already, countless times, what happens if conquerors are not stopped early.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

49. So, IOW,

you don't trust Pres. Biden, his Military advisors, NATO leaders?

What makes you think that you know more than they do?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

66. And he has to listen to the American people.

The more that say they no, ties his hands.

And we will have another sneak attack instead of being able to get on top of it.

And the Republicans are pro Putin so they are going to be a roadblock.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

69. If you're so bent on doing more,

then haul your backside to the nearest Ukrainian embassy and volunteer to go to Ukraine and fight the Russians, they are asking for volunteers.

Those of us who have experienced actual combat, and all the baggage that comes with it, would rather not engage the Russians in open combat and let the other options play out.

I trust Pres. Biden over an internet armchair general.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

75. I'm disqualified due to MS.

And I went to college to be a War Correspondent.

I even tried to join the Navy and Army back when I was young. But what no one, including me, knew that I couldn't pass the physical fitness test because of the MS because it was doing damage and still not detectable at the time.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

80. Then I apologize and my condolences for you condition,

but if I may ask, what makes you more qualified to assess the situation than Pres. Biden, his Military advisors, our Intelligence Agencies, NATO leaders?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

84. Because I'm one of President Biden's bosses.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

87. LOL.

Ok, ya got me, there is that.

[Ocelot II]

55. I am asking again: What, exactly, is "whatever it takes"?

[jalan48]

46. At this point I'm trusting Biden and his advisors.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. I'm on the side of not starting WWIII, personally (n/t)

[XanaDUer2]

52. I don't want ww3

But I'm heartbroken.

[Wingus Dingus]

56. By "doing more", I mean stepping up shipments of arms,

planes, drones, missiles, supplies, food, medicine--endless supplies, trucked or airlifted as far inside Ukraine as possible. Getting humanitarian relief personnel as close to civilians as possible. And then starting to look at other ways, creative ways, to kick Russia in the 'nads, economically and foreign-policy wise. Using leverage with non-NATO countries to talk Russia into at least allowing safe corridors. That sort of thing.

[Ocelot II]

64. It's happening; check foreign news outlets. But the logistics are difficult and complex,

and these materials can't just magically appear in an instant.

[Wingus Dingus]

68. I know--it's all we as a country can really do, especially

when help is so urgently needed there.

[48656c6c6f20]

58. DU is stuck between all out nuclear war

And do nothing, let someone else figure it out.
I'm going to go with what Kennedy did by allowing Russia to have nukes in Cuba. Oh wait. That's not right. He helped them buikd the nukes in Russia. Oh that's not it either. There was something he did, seemed pretty radical and risky.. Could have caused ww3. Yet he had the bravery to meet head on the crisis. We are not that country anymore. We worry about high cost gas and coffee. So let's do nothing so I can afford a cheap cup of coffee.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

70. Putin is wanting a fight.

He's not going to let us set back.

And it shocking to me that so many is willing to let a bully run rapid. You stand up to bullies so you don't end up a victim.

[Scrivener7]

72. I vote do more AND stay out of it.

I don't think we can be combatants. But there is a lot more we can do short of that.

[MineralMan]

77. Too binary, this poll.

Do what? Be specific.

Pass.

[Silent3]

88. "Do more" is too vague

I think most people want to "do more", but differ on exactly how much more can be done without risking an an escalation that would only make things worse -- possibly much worse.

If only it were practical and doable (very, very questionable) the ideal solution would be do kill or otherwise topple Putin himself. Free from Putin and the risks of defying Putin, I doubt there are many others with power in Russia who wouldn't want to bail out of this war immediately, given the chance.

[sarisataka]

89. A less binary option:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216449210