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(12,463 posts)it backfires on him badly.
TheBlackAdder
(28,244 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,719 posts)He is getting some pushback.
Very good.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)eShirl
(18,507 posts)OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)Irish_Dem
(47,719 posts)It is costing him.
Alexander Of Assyria
(7,839 posts)The evil man must be in shock how badly things are going, and going to get worse.
Pull the plug Putin, you lost as soon as your first paratroopers set foot in URK.
Not a war of choice so much as a war of desperation, the Russian people must be very very restless with h their Overlords.
Speaking of which, the Russian Orthodox Church give blessing to this evil?. What say u holy men?
Mr.Bill
(24,354 posts)need only say they are praying for the safety of all or some bullshit like that.
Great gig to have during a war.
Bev54
(10,088 posts)OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)precarious
has some issues like corruption, etc. that need to be resolved before they can join NATO. I don't think that would be an issue with Finland and Sweden. Also, I think that there has to be a vote by the public to agree to join NATO.
Bev54
(10,088 posts)I understand the corruption issue but at the same time I think it would slap Putin hard should they join. I know that they wanted to see if Zelensky could get a handle on the corruption before inviting them in and I hope he and his government survives to be able to join. At this point I think they would make a serious effort especially now seeing what Russia was willing to do to them.
I think there has to be a vote by the people of any country to agree to join NATO. There are also a lot of requirements to join NATO. I don't think a country can say I want to join NATO and they are in.
Freethinker65
(10,093 posts)NATO will be stronger than ever. Putin helping to install Trump to attempt to weaken NATO was too damn obvious.
Now that Russia has devoted so much manpower and resources to expanding Westward, it would be a fine opportunity to educate Russians left in Russia on how much of their country Putin and his oligarch friends have stolen from them.
Joinfortmill
(14,495 posts)SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)They're all scared Putin will "have tea" with them, or simply leave them behind. They only exist because Putin allows it.
Cha
(297,935 posts)taht Evil MF Not to do something.
Link to tweet
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2877276
Rt TY
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,064 posts)Texaswitchy
(2,962 posts)Things are not going his way.
First he lost Trump, now Ukraine.
Temper tantrum.
PA_jen
(1,114 posts)To unite against Putin Nato will give them honor membership for the purpose of fending off Putin.
Celerity
(43,693 posts)In 1949 Sweden chose not to join NATO and declared a security policy aiming for non-alignment in peace and neutrality in war. A modified version now qualifies non-alignment in peace for possible neutrality in war. As such, the Swedish government decided not to participate in the membership of NATO because they wanted to remain neutral in a potential war. This position was maintained without much discussion during the Cold War.
Since the 1990s however there has been an active debate in Sweden on the question of NATO membership in the postCold War world. Sweden joined Partnership for Peace in 1994. These ideological divides were visible again in November 2006 when Sweden could either buy two new transport planes or join NATO's plane pool, and in December 2006, when Sweden was invited to join the NATO Response Force. While the governing parties in Sweden have opposed membership, they have participated in NATO-led missions in Bosnia (IFOR and SFOR), Kosovo (KFOR), Afghanistan (ISAF) and Libya (Operation Unified Protector).
The Swedish left wing, including the Social Democratic party, the Green party and the Left party have remained in favour of non-alignment, along with the nationalist Sweden Democrats. The right wing, including the Moderate Party, the Centre party, the conservative Christian Democrats, the Liberal party make up the Swedish parties with representation in the parliament today that are in favour of NATO membership. Former prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt stated on 18 September 2007 that Swedish membership in NATO would require a "very wide" majority in Parliament, including the social democrats, and coordination with Finland.
Sweden signed in 2014, and ratified in 2016, a host country agreement with NATO allowing for NATO forces to conduct joint training exercises on Swedish soil and for NATO member states' forces to be deployed in Sweden in response to threats to Sweden's national security. In October 2014, an opinion poll found for the first time more Swedes in favour of NATO membership (37%) than opposed (36%).
snip
Sweden to join NATO Response Force and exercise Steadfast Jazz
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_104086.htm
PA_jen
(1,114 posts)needs to unite and metaphorically slapped Putin's hand and told we will not allow your thirst for world domination.
lostnfound
(16,195 posts)Doing business with the Swedes was a real pleasure. Smart, generally straightforward, high quality. Nice culture, lovely countryside. I think the contract I arranged there was worth about $200 M or so.
Celerity
(43,693 posts)Hopefully Covid finally recedes enough to make easy global travel commonplace again.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Caliman73
(11,760 posts)They have also made it clear that they have their own defense arrangements that preclude them joining NATO.
I say we continue to work cooperatively with them and neither dissuade nor pressure them to join. This is how democracy and a "free world" work. You have Russia on one side threatening them, and the rest of the world telling them, "Hey, we are here if you'd like, but are under no obligation to join".
That will make any choice they make a legitimate one.
Best_man23
(4,914 posts)In the winter, in the deep snow. Groups of Army soldiers and Marines travel to Finland every year to train alongside the Finnish troops, whose units have some of the finest Ski Troops of any standing army in the world.
Marines with Black Sea Rotational Force 14 travelled to Finland to participate in a basic cold-weather skills and Military Operations in Urban Terrain Instructors course Jan. 6-24, alongside the Jaeger Brigade and Guard Jaeger Regiment, the Finnish Defence Forces premiere winter-training units.
The final exercise, a 17-kilometer movement that incorporated lessons from the entire course, tested the Marines during extreme physical and mental fatigue from lack of food and sleep. Marines, integrated in the course with Finnish soldiers, had to cross-country ski with a full pack, completing specified tasks as part of a survival scenario along the way. Tasks included a live-fire range, evading the enemy, and submersing themselves in freezing water.
https://www.marforeur.marines.mil/News/News-Article-Display/Article/521041/marines-and-finnish-forces-train-in-sub-zero-conditions/#:~:text=Marines%2C%20integrated%20in%20the%20course,submersing%20themselves%20in%20freezing%20water.
Celerity
(43,693 posts)We have not been in a military alliance nor a war since 1814, more than 200 years ago.
radius777
(3,635 posts)that Putin is afraid of. If Ukraine was in, he would not be attacking them.
Finland afaik is considering joining NATO.
Celerity
(43,693 posts)Dan
(3,585 posts)I seriously doubt that Putin would have attacked them if they still had them.
OMGWTF
(3,984 posts)Celerity
(43,693 posts)Celerity
(43,693 posts)https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/61f9e4619d9e380022bdd931/no-ukraine-should-not-have-kept-nuclear-weapons/
The Russians are on the verge of dramatically expanding their previous invasion of Ukraine, this time with enough forces that they could roll through the streets of Kyiv. I will admit that when the Soviet Union collapsed 30 years ago, I did not expect that the new Russian Federationpoor, militarily weak, but finally freecould be, or would want to be, a threat to its neighbors. This was a failure of imagination on my part. But about one thing I was certain, and remain so: Its a good thing that Ukraine never became a nuclear-weapons state. Now that the Russians are poised to invade, this bad idea is coming around again.
There are sensible people I respect who disagree about this, and so I think its worth a little time to consider that no matter how bad things might get, they would only be worse if Ukrainian nuclear weapons were involved. A series of historical and political circumstances have brought us to this point, going all the way back to how the USSR was created in the first place. (There are reasons, for example, that the Ukrainian state exists in its current borders and for why Crimea ended up a bone of contention, but thats a subject Ill explain in an additional newsletter later this week.) Today, lets just ask a basic question: Would nuclear weapons have protected Ukraine now?
American realists like Professor John Mearsheimer, among others, think so. This is a simplistic answer, as realist answers so often are. It is a view of the world as something like a big game of Risk, in which all the countries are basically alike except for how many pretty colored chips they control. This approach leads foreign-policy analysts to say things that sound deep and logical, but make no sense when real countries, with real histories, governed by real people, get involved.
It also assumes that nuclear weapons are magical talismans that protect anyone who holds them. Theyre talismans, alright. Like a Monkeys Paw. Mearsheimer, for those unfamiliar with him, is the University of Chicago scholar who said back in 1990 that European stability might improve if Germany became an independent nuclear power. This is no slam on the Germans, but nobodyincluding the Germanswanted that. He then said it about Ukraine in 1993 and 2014.
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greatauntoftriplets
(175,766 posts)Scrivener7
(51,075 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,032 posts)Go fuck yourself, Vlad. No one wants you in their circle of friends.
monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Smooth comrade, smooth.
Fla Dem
(23,851 posts)I wouldn't be surprised if a group of high ranking Russian officials and/or military officers don't band together and throw him out or throw him into the gulag.
Beastly Boy
(9,538 posts)demonstrating to the whole world the political and military consequences of his neighbors NOT joining NATO.
...Is he trying to be funny?
thesquanderer
(11,998 posts)...because then we won't be able to invade you." That's what it comes down to, and what kind of threat is that?
radius777
(3,635 posts)I think the West is coming to the conclusion that this is a zero sum game. Putin will not accept the existence of the West, which he views as a threat to authoritarian regimes like his own. Thus, going forward the West IMO will work to cripple Russia with sanctions as well as expand and beef up NATO - all of which will steadily bankrupt the Putin regime and force it to implode. Ukraine and Georgia should've been admitted to NATO a long time ago, which would have prevented Russian aggression against them. Appeasing Putin was a terrible mistake.
Pinback
(12,174 posts)It didn't go so well for Russia's victims.
Ohioboy
(3,248 posts)Crowman2009
(2,505 posts)Never underestimate cross-country skiing sharpshooters.
Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)That is the best outcome. He is not prepared for a large internal fight. He is also certifiably nuts at this point, not the "genius" the Orange Anus purports. The Orange Anus and all Putin supporters need to be indicted for treason once we declare formally Russia is an "enemy." Not sure what we are waiting for at this point...
wryter2000
(46,127 posts)He's in any position to invade any more countries right now.
Aviation Pro
(12,224 posts)...go take your couple of thousand bucks and go buy a condo in Sunny Isles so you can spend the rest of your days with your fellow scumbags.
Skittles
(153,261 posts)WHO THE FUCK DOES HE THINK HE IS, HE NEEDS TO BE SMACKED THE FUCK DOWN
monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)Lancero
(3,017 posts)I'll admit, I was expecting Moldova to be next on his list of nations to conquer.
VMA131Marine
(4,159 posts)Then the rest of the former Eastern Bloc countries. Putin really thinks he can reassemble the Soviet Union.
paulkienitz
(1,296 posts)Mr. Evil
(2,863 posts)One delusional, psychopathic man is causing all this clusterfuck. He won't stop at Ukraine. He'll keep going until he personally is stopped. This megalomaniac needs to be assassinated. You must kill the snake by chopping off its head. Vladamir Putin must be taken out by any means available. Or this will get much worse.
3catwoman3
(24,092 posts)...thinking.
Martin68
(22,945 posts)3825-87867
(856 posts)at fox will spin this?
Diraven
(545 posts)I can see why he would want to threaten Finland since they share a border, and Finland even used to part of the Russian Empire for a while. But Russia hasn't had a conflict with Sweden for over 200 years and they hundreds of miles on the other side of Finland.
Aussie105
(5,478 posts)To protect countries surrounding Russia from Russian incursions.
There is no threat to Russia from them invading Russia.
Vlad simply wants to weaken their standing so he can sneak in.
With the current Ukrainian situation using up troops and resources, does Vlad really think he can take over that country, and then move on to others?