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The Belichick text has exposed what most of us already know about the NFL. (Original Post) Samrob Feb 2022 OP
I don't follow football and I found this situation a disgusting example of discrimination. FreepFryer Feb 2022 #1
+1, Bellicheck knew before Flores did !! I'm disgusted. This happens way too many times in corp am uponit7771 Feb 2022 #8
Yep, and Minnesota's about to continue the cycle. Embarrassing. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #2
They just hired a black general manager Generic Brad Feb 2022 #34
My comment was regarding the possibility of hiring Harbaugh, which has since fallen apart. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #35
Aaaaaand my comment's back on, with the O'Connell news out. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #37
The Rooney Rule has always been a joke SallyHemmings Feb 2022 #3
The logic is a little odd though... Fix The Stupid Feb 2022 #4
WHOA !!! I hope Flores wins, too many in corp America do SAME THING with minorities of all kind uponit7771 Feb 2022 #5
Happened at my work Sympthsical Feb 2022 #15
Good !!! I think it should be this way around the country still; not take peoples word for it seeing uponit7771 Feb 2022 #26
What a surprise -- Kraft's employees think they are above the rules JT45242 Feb 2022 #6
What rules did Bill Belichick break in this instance? Zeitghost Feb 2022 #19
If you think Belichick texted "the wrong guy"..... BradAllison Feb 2022 #36
You think he purposefully Dorian Gray Feb 2022 #38
He's not a fan of the Giants. n/m BradAllison Feb 2022 #39
I wondered the same thing ecstatic Feb 2022 #40
I mean obviously he would congratulate him if he got the job......I think. BradAllison Feb 2022 #41
What text? Nixie Feb 2022 #7
No idea what you are talking about. milestogo Feb 2022 #9
Here ya go Sympthsical Feb 2022 #10
"Flores was then forced to sit through a dinner..." luv2fly Feb 2022 #14
That's not the reporter; those are quotes from the lawsuit. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #16
Exactly. I would have put them on front street right Nixie Feb 2022 #20
Because if he did not help them click the checkmark of the Rooney rule boston bean Feb 2022 #33
On the basis of a rumor sent by text? yardwork Feb 2022 #43
Seems very clear to me dwayneb Feb 2022 #45
+1 mitch96 Feb 2022 #24
The only thing is that the other Brian was a Patriots Nixie Feb 2022 #11
It's an exhibit in an entire lawsuit. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #12
I think Flores beef is not with Belichick boston bean Feb 2022 #13
100% Bean....you lay it out so even an idiot can figure out WTF. rgbecker Feb 2022 #17
Thanks for the background. Because it is the Patriots Nixie Feb 2022 #18
How can you have a case if you don't follow through on the process? Solomon Feb 2022 #42
All you said is pertinent, but the wording was he Nixie Feb 2022 #46
He didn't know it was filled. He received a rumor via text. yardwork Feb 2022 #44
I saw posts here that his competitor had more quarterback Nixie Feb 2022 #48
The interview process for a job like that is intense. yardwork Feb 2022 #49
Seriously? Filing a lawsuit is pretty intense, too, Nixie Feb 2022 #50
I think you might have misunderstood my post. yardwork Feb 2022 #53
Why wait until the middle of dinner?? And why not bring Nixie Feb 2022 #54
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2022 #27
The whole beginning of the lawsuit is a history of minority hiring in the NFL Johonny Feb 2022 #32
I liked the Broncos transgressions. gibraltar72 Feb 2022 #21
Why would you not post More information??? USALiberal Feb 2022 #22
+1 mitch96 Feb 2022 #25
If you put all 32 NFL owners in a line-up maxrandb Feb 2022 #23
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2022 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author traitorsgalore Feb 2022 #29
Pro sports leagues are monopolies which need to be busted up and regulated. radius777 Feb 2022 #30
Not seen a single player say that their jaws are dropping on the news Johonny Feb 2022 #31
This Nonsense Has Been RobinA Feb 2022 #47
Deep seeded racism Johnny2X2X Feb 2022 #51
Thread is WORTHLESS without links to context. Tommymac Feb 2022 #52

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
1. I don't follow football and I found this situation a disgusting example of discrimination.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 08:40 AM
Feb 2022

If he hadn’t misdirected that text he never would have revealed the banality of this evil.

I hope Flores cleans up so much it shakes the whole sports industry.

You should provide a link tho since you brought it up

SallyHemmings

(1,809 posts)
3. The Rooney Rule has always been a joke
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:01 AM
Feb 2022

The OWNERS are not going to have anyone tell them who to hire.

Until the players walk there will never be change.

Fix The Stupid

(946 posts)
4. The logic is a little odd though...
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:16 AM
Feb 2022

"70% of NFL players are black"
"3% of head coaches are black"

So what's the magic # we are looking for? Is it 50% head coaches need to be black? or 70%?

What about the inverse?

"30% of NFL players are white"

How is this fair to the white players? Shouldn't we be aiming for at least 50% white players for "equity"?

I can already see the replies to that above question, lol;

"If the white players are not good enough to compete at the professional level, you can't just force the teams to play them!"... without a hint of irony, mind you...

I applaud Flores for risking his career on this move though. You wanna bet the NFL is squirming right now...

I've always felt that certain games were not "rigged" in the classic sense, but definitely "steered" towards a certain outcome...as any Lions fan will agree with.

Let's open this up and see where it goes...shine some light into that cesspool.

Sympthsical

(8,665 posts)
15. Happened at my work
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:50 AM
Feb 2022

One of the first big problems I dealt with in HR at an employer.

We generally give management a lot of leeway when promoting into their sections. We tend to promote internally, and there's a lot of opportunity for people who start entry level to move up to better positions, different sections, etc. where they make better money. Other managers or supervisors will give recommendations and encourage people to apply for open positions. Since we're office types and don't see what goes on in production, we generally take the various managers' and supervisors' word for it, barring any red flags or obvious questions.

Well, this one manager kept promoting people of her own race for the better part of two years. Two supervisors noted it to us. There had been a lot of turnover in the department, so we looked and asked around. Who's applying for the positions?

Well, turns out people of all different races were being encouraged to apply and did apply under this manager. They received floor interviews Eventually. They were always getting put off for one reason or another, and it could take people two months to get a floor review. Should've taken one or two weeks at worst. But she kept right on going hiring only people from her racial group. The people she was hiring had demonstrably less experience or time at the company. There was - shocking - also a lot of turnover under her. She wasn't hiring based on if it was a good worker. It was totally and clearly race-based. Only 10% of those under her were of a different race. Given production's racial demographics . . . let's just say it did not scan.

So, HR took the interviewing and hiring for her department over directly. It was fun. She was pissed, said we were targeting her, etc. Whole ass ache of a thing.

But we ended up with a department that looked more like the rest of the company, and there is a lot less turnover in it these days. She quit last year after telling my boss to kiss her ass and that she wasn't "going to be watched."

Oh well.

uponit7771

(90,152 posts)
26. Good !!! I think it should be this way around the country still; not take peoples word for it seeing
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 02:11 PM
Feb 2022

... there were 74 million Americans who didn't think racism was a deal breaker in the head office.

JT45242

(2,129 posts)
6. What a surprise -- Kraft's employees think they are above the rules
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:19 AM
Feb 2022

If there can be video of Kraft assaulting massage girls and he not only walks but all charges are dropped and never see trial -- why would anyone associated with him (or the power wing of the NFL -- Kraft, Jones, Rooney) thing that there are actual consequences for actions.

EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS THE ROONEY RULE WAS ONLY FOR SHOW.

Zeitghost

(3,670 posts)
19. What rules did Bill Belichick break in this instance?
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:35 AM
Feb 2022

He made a text to the wrong guy. It exposed some other shenanigans, but that had nothing to do with Belichick.

BradAllison

(1,879 posts)
36. If you think Belichick texted "the wrong guy".....
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 08:27 PM
Feb 2022

I don't know what to tell you, Belichick knew what he was doing.

ecstatic

(32,432 posts)
40. I wondered the same thing
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:16 PM
Feb 2022

If Belichick purposely texted Brian Flores. After all, they did have history together.

BradAllison

(1,879 posts)
41. I mean obviously he would congratulate him if he got the job......I think.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:34 PM
Feb 2022

But he "texted the wrong Brian".....

Please.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
7. What text?
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:20 AM
Feb 2022

I just saw the tail end of this on Morning Joe, but must have missed the text part. Is that what started this?

Sympthsical

(8,665 posts)
10. Here ya go
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:28 AM
Feb 2022

Yeah, I didn't know what was going on either.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/02/01/bill-belichick-accidental-text-message-brian-flores-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-giants-brian-daboll-hiring/


The lawsuit showed text messages of Belichick sending congratulations to Flores for landing the Giants job on Jan. 24. That text was sent two days prior to Flores actually interviewing for the job.

After Flores initially appeared confused by the text message, he asked Belichick, “Coach, are you talking to Brian Flores or Brian Daboll. Just making sure.”

Belichick replied: “Sorry – I f—ed this up. I double checked & I misread the text. I think they are naming Daboll. I’m sorry about that. BB”

The lawsuit alleges that Flores was then “forced to sit through a dinner with Joe Schoen, the Giant’s [sic] new General Manager, knowing that the Giants had already selected Mr. Daboll. Much worse, on Thursday, January 27, 2022, Mr. Flores had to give an extensive interview for a job that he already knew he would not get — an interview that was held for no reason other than for the Giants to demonstrate falsely to the League Commissioner Roger Goodell and the public at large that it was in compliance with the Rooney rule.”


The Rooney Rule from Wikipedia:

The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is an example of affirmative action, even though there is no hiring quota or hiring preference given to minorities, only an interviewing quota. It was established in 2003, and variations of the rule are now in place in other industries.

luv2fly

(2,474 posts)
14. "Flores was then forced to sit through a dinner..."
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:45 AM
Feb 2022

This kind of writing requires greater detail. "Forced?" He's a grown man, I am sure he makes his own decisions and going into this believing someone else was already hired, wouldn't that be the first question for any reasonable person to inquire about?

And then there is this: "Mr. Flores had to give an extensive interview for a job that he already knew he would not get..." - again, "had to?" I would assume he could opt out, or as referenced above, make the interview about the elephant in the room. No indication of that though.

Something is missing or it's just lousy journalism.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
20. Exactly. I would have put them on front street right
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:35 AM
Feb 2022

away with some phone calls about my upcoming interview when the position was already filled. How was he “forced”?

I totally agree about the writing.

boston bean

(36,167 posts)
33. Because if he did not help them click the checkmark of the Rooney rule
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 07:29 PM
Feb 2022

it could have had detrimental affects on his career.

yardwork

(61,191 posts)
43. On the basis of a rumor sent by text?
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:05 AM
Feb 2022

It sounds like he learned of other evidence after he didn't get the job. At the point he received the text, he didn't know for certain.

dwayneb

(765 posts)
45. Seems very clear to me
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:10 AM
Feb 2022

If I had been in Flores situation I would have done the same thing. Make them conduct their fake interview, setting the stage for an effective lawsuit. I am betting Flores thought about that after he received that mistaken text from Belichick.

Those fake interviews will give him a lot more ammunition in his civil suit against the NFL.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
11. The only thing is that the other Brian was a Patriots
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:33 AM
Feb 2022

assistant coach it seems…? and Bill B was their head coach, so maybe he just thought he was congratulating a former underling/colleague, not congratulating him as a white guy. ?

Oh well, not enough to go on. I’m sure there is racism in the NFL, but does Bill’s text prove that ?

WhiskeyGrinder

(21,951 posts)
12. It's an exhibit in an entire lawsuit.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:36 AM
Feb 2022

The text shows the Giants had already made their decision before they even interviewed Flores.

boston bean

(36,167 posts)
13. I think Flores beef is not with Belichick
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 09:41 AM
Feb 2022

It was that a decision was already made and he was scheduled for interview few days later.

It becomes apparent they were only using Flores to check a box due to the Rooney rule. It was a complete waste of time and they were using him based on the color of his skin.

Add in that there is only one black head coach in the entire NFL and it shows a pattern of bias.

rgbecker

(4,793 posts)
17. 100% Bean....you lay it out so even an idiot can figure out WTF.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:19 AM
Feb 2022

I hope Flores' legal action hits a few marks along the way.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
18. Thanks for the background. Because it is the Patriots
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:30 AM
Feb 2022

involved, it would be good if he has other examples besides that team since they’ve dominated football so much, I’d imagine anyone from their ranks would be given priority consideration regardless.

I guess we’ll find out why Flores even went to the interview if he knew it was filled. Canceling would have put them in more of a bind if they were trying to fill a quota with the Rooney rule, it seems.

But the bias is pretty obvious, so it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Solomon

(12,288 posts)
42. How can you have a case if you don't follow through on the process?
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 12:55 AM
Feb 2022

If he refused to go on the interview everyone would say what's he complaining about? He took himself out of it. I find the argument that he wasn't forced and could have just walked away ridiculous and belittling. You have to dot the i's and cross the t's. Why should he have let them off the hook by walking away?

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
46. All you said is pertinent, but the wording was he
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:19 AM
Feb 2022

was “forced.” Why take away from your case with inappropriate wording. He was “forced” to sit through a dinner or some such wording. It’s more he was mislead or deceived, but maybe not “forced.

yardwork

(61,191 posts)
44. He didn't know it was filled. He received a rumor via text.
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:07 AM
Feb 2022

Later, it became obvious that the whole search was a sham.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
48. I saw posts here that his competitor had more quarterback
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:53 AM
Feb 2022

experience, or something like that. If he received a rumor, he could have still asked about the rumor.

But it sounds like he’s naming several teams, so it’s not just one job opening that he will be covering in his suit. It is obvious in the NFL that the coaching jobs lack diversity.

yardwork

(61,191 posts)
49. The interview process for a job like that is intense.
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 09:00 AM
Feb 2022

You can't just ask about a rumor you heard.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
50. Seriously? Filing a lawsuit is pretty intense, too,
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 09:04 AM
Feb 2022

but it can be done. The rumor was from Bill Belichick, so it wasn’t just some rando.

yardwork

(61,191 posts)
53. I think you might have misunderstood my post.
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 12:41 PM
Feb 2022

The interview process for a multi-million dollar high profile job like this would probably not be conducive to bringing up, in the middle of dinner say. that he'd received a text from another team's coach saying that they'd already chosen another candidate. He really was stuck. His options were poor in this situation. Which is probably why he eventually decided to sue. Enough is enough.

Nixie

(16,837 posts)
54. Why wait until the middle of dinner?? And why not bring
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 12:51 PM
Feb 2022

it up? I thought one gripe was that they wasted his time, so why even travel there if it was upsetting. Call them and ask what’s happening.

This posting assumes a lot about personal styles that are frankly irrelevant. I would have picked up the phone. You wouldn’t. Okay.

Johonny

(20,446 posts)
32. The whole beginning of the lawsuit is a history of minority hiring in the NFL
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 03:54 PM
Feb 2022

It's class action. It's not Flores versus the NFL.

gibraltar72

(7,458 posts)
21. I liked the Broncos transgressions.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:46 AM
Feb 2022

Elway and crew show up late for interview and are drunk. Elway has always been an asshole.

maxrandb

(15,033 posts)
23. If you put all 32 NFL owners in a line-up
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 10:48 AM
Feb 2022

28 of them would be wearing MAGA Hats.

Just like EVERY FUCKING RETRUMPLICAN SUPPORTER, us brogues better "just be thankful we have a job"

Response to Samrob (Original post)

radius777

(3,623 posts)
30. Pro sports leagues are monopolies which need to be busted up and regulated.
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 03:33 PM
Feb 2022

That is fundamentally the problem. They often bully/blackmail local gov'ts to subsidize them. They don't treat players and coaches properly. There is often structural racism and sexism. It's a good ole boys club of greedy ass owners who play by their own rules.

Look at what's going on with MLB. The greedy owners want all of the money for themselves - it's never enough. The last CBA totally screwed the players, who would be correct to strike, as much as I would miss baseball.

Johonny

(20,446 posts)
31. Not seen a single player say that their jaws are dropping on the news
Wed Feb 2, 2022, 03:51 PM
Feb 2022

Worst kept not even a secret (I mean the Rooney rule is there for a reason) in sports. It's been suggested Belichick wouldn't exactly be upset to see the league take a little heat. The Patriots aren't afraid of their minority hiring record. Oddly Miami is thought to be one of the better franchises for diversity as well. However, Flores was the coach willing to be named for the class action suit. This is a legal action 20+ years in the making.

RobinA

(9,851 posts)
47. This Nonsense Has Been
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 08:30 AM
Feb 2022

going on in hiring since forever. I have no special knowledge of the NFL, but I've been hired, not hired, and involved in hiring decisions and interviewing. The process rarely bears scrutiny no matter who is involved. I'm quite sure I've been interviewed when they knew they weren't going to hire me. I know I've seen people interviewed when the company already knew who they were hiring. I've gone on interviews for jobs I knew I wouldn't take. I'm quite sure there is racism in hiring, but the particular activity evidenced by the e-mail is not limited to those situations. Now if someone can put a stop to the deceit in hiring using whatever means necessary, more power to him or her.

Johnny2X2X

(18,408 posts)
51. Deep seeded racism
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 09:06 AM
Feb 2022

A lot of these owners probably think of themselves as swell guys. But their NFL teams are the ultimate expression of their egos, NFL ownership is the ultimate billionaire show off. It's the ultimate machismo toy to show off to their fellow billionaires.

So when it comes to coaching their ultimate macho toy, their racism comes out, this is the most important position in the organization, they only want whites in that spot, representing their ego.

And it's reinforced in the media. Watch the hires and contracts for coaches in the pros and college the last few years. They'll give a young white coach with virtually no experience a shot at a big job, but black men with decades of great experience get passed over repeatedly.

Michigan State hired a black head coach 2 years ago, almost to the day, he's a perfect example. Mel Tucker was in coaching for over 22 years before he finally got hired as a head coach. And those 22 years were filled with elite experience on national title winning teams. So he was winning national titles as an assistant, coaching NFL defenses for years, and basically getting experience working for the best head coaches in the country, yet no head coaching opportunities arose for him as he went from MSU to LSU to Ohio State to the NFL to Alabama and to Georgia working for legends like Jim Tressel and Nick Saban.

Mel Tucker finally got a head coaching job at Colorado, and after a year a bigger program came calling in Michigan State and offered him elite money. Instead of celebrating a black coach getting a huge salary with a chance to lead a big time program, the media went after him and the contract, saying MSU overpaid and coaches shouldn't leave their teams after 1 year. And then it got even worse this past year when Tucker was leading Michigan State to a great season so LSU tried to poach him, but MSU ponied up and gave him the largest contract for any black coach in the country, $9.5 Million a year for 10 years. Instead of celebrating that, the media hammered he and MSU for overpaying, that it was a ridiculous deal for a coach with only 3 years of head coaching experience. The racism was palpable. Michigan State was the first school to desegregate their football program, and now they made a black head coach one of the highest paid in the country, instead of celebrating this event, the media was critical. All the while a white coach like Lincoln Riley who had been coaching less years, but was given a big chance much earlier signs a similar deal to go to USC and it was celebrated. No talk that Lincoln Riley only had a few years of HC experience, no hurt feelings that he was leaving for a big money deal. The difference couldn't be more obvious.

The NFL is trending towards younger and more innovative coaches, so they're taking chances on young guys with very little experience. They're giving shots to guys with less than 10 years in coaching, who all are white. All the while there are dozens of Mel Tuckers out there grinding for 20+ years and getting passed over and passed over and passed over.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
52. Thread is WORTHLESS without links to context.
Thu Feb 3, 2022, 10:57 AM
Feb 2022

If you are going ot post, please post links and facts to what the fuck you are talking about.



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