Morgan Stanley Boss: You're nuts if you're not back in the office!

[Tomconroy]

I know it's a link to the Post but I think it's an interesting topic. Will a young person's career suffer from not being physically around mentors?

https://nypost.com/2021/11/22/morgan-stanley-boss-to-young-bankers-youre-nuts-if-youre-not-in-the-office/

[Sherman A1]

1. One wonders if this Boss will be back in the office

Or working remotely from their vacation home in the Hamptons?

[Tomconroy]

2. Probably some of both. It's good to be the boss of Morgan Stanley!

[malletgirl02]

15. Plus if he is in the office

He has his own plus office and maybe his own ventilation system while the plebes are sharing germs in cubicles or worst an open office.

[brooklynite]

16. Yes he will...

Business deals work better face to face.

FWIW, most people who decamped to the country at the start of the COVID pandemic have returned to NYC.

[Sherman A1]

21. He may or may not be, however

my understanding of the latter part of your response is different. Step daughter works (or worked in Manhattan at the Empire State Building) and she reports that a great deal of the office workers have yet to return, continuing to work remotely.

[Dorian Gray]

3. I'm going to say something

that probably goes against the prevailing wisdom here, but here goes.

My husband has been back in the classroom since September 2020. Subway to work every single day, teaching in person.

All the people who work in medicine/retail/restaurants/blue collar jobs have all been in person.

It is the elite class... financial institutions, law firms, publishing houses, media companies, that all have had the luxury of working from home.

My daughter goes to school with kids whose parents have all been working from home. (Park of living in the area of Brooklyn that we do.)

But the reality is that it is only a certain class of people who have been afforded that luxury, and it's part of the inequity that has been completely exposed in this last year. (Another part was school closures affecting lower income families a hell of a lot more than the same families who have been able to work from home the last year.)

While the debate could still be open about the value of remote work for some people, the push to let people work remotely in perpetuity chaffs me. Because we aren't talking about the backbone of our work force. We are talking about the superfluous jobs that really don't need to be done in person.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Excellent, important point. Thank you.

I think remote work, when possible, is a net positive, especially for the environment and parents for whom finding and affording childcare (or any other type of caregiving) is a challenge. But we absolutely must keep in mind that that is a luxury many don't have because their work simply cannot be done remotely or they're not given that option if they want to keep their job.

[Dorian Gray]

5. Thanks for the respectful

response here. I was worried about posting something that may be contrary to the prevailing thought.

I agree that remote work has a lot of positive attributes. Hell, I work from home (have forever... not a pandemic related thing), so I know all the benefits that it affords my family.

I shouldn't have spoken in absolutes because there is definitely room for nuance in this discussion. Especially with people in different careers. I do know that my husband has gotten upset when he's spoken to other fathers who say they refuse to go back in the office until their kids can be vaccinated because they don't want to endanger them. (The unsaid insinuation that they would probably be horrified if we revealed is that my husband, who had no choice, has been endangering our daughter for the last 14 months.)

[Tomconroy]

6. You're absolutely right. There are important jobs that can only

Be done in person. Lots of people were on front lines during Covid.

[Demsrule86]

9. I think working from home is wonderful and without a doubt helps the climate crisis by

Reducing energy consumption. So I disagree. There are other benefits as well. As for mentoring younger folks, that rarely happens. I think the jobs you are talking about are long gone.

Right now if you get Covid, there is no help at all....no unemployment, or anything. Some lose their jobs and health benefits...thus going out is risk both financially and healthwise. And this isn't over. There were nearly 6000 new cases yesterday in Ohio.

[underpants]

8. Yes I agree. My wife is still working at home

and probably will for some time. Basically work done staring at a laptop or monitor are the only ones that are open to working at home. She really never needs to go back in given her job.

I’ve been back in the office (with telework options) since July 2020 but that’s because I’m in a direct educational operation. I can do most of my job at a distance but if I’m in the office I’m on my feet about 30% of the time - “other duties as assigned”.

The problem is that this is a drastic change to the management norm. Physically supervising is a part of how everyone has been trained to manage.

[malletgirl02]

13. So working from home isn't work?

I am a system administrator, and I work long hours often at night from home maintaining servers. Also I am not the elite. Plus the guy you are supporting is an elite. I am tired of people say people who work from home are all useless, lazy elites.

[Dorian Gray]

18. I didn't say that you're a useless elite

I knew posting this would get some pushback, as so much of our identity is wrapped up in what we do.

I work from home and always have. My job is one that I'm lucky to have the flexibility to work from home. I always have, and I'm extraordinarily lucky to do so bc it gives me flexibility to be home when I get called when my child is sick, when her school has quarantines, etc.

I also work hard, so I understand why you may feel frustrated. But I am extraordinarily privileged to be able to do what I do from where I do it. I am privileged to be able to be present in emergencies and not be afraid to lose my job for it.

I am not supporting Morgan Stanley, per se. But I do see why people who have had to work throughout the last year and a half may be frustrated by people who insist they don't need to be in person. In many cases they don't. It is a position of privilege to be able to work from home in a pandemic. That doesn't mean that your job is unnecessary and that you don't work hard. There are plenty of people who haven't had the privilege at all.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Essentially Agree

Except for the use of the term "superfluous jobs".
Not only is"superfluous" likely inaccurate, but it carries as implied insult.
Having a job that is not public facing, therefore not requiring in-person work, isn't necessarily of lower value.

[Dorian Gray]

26. You're right

I should have used a different word. If it means anything, I was being self-critical. I work from home and while I work hard and do valuable work, it isn't essential to the running of society like healthcare workers/educators/retail workers/utilities workers/etc.

[Quakerfriend]

7. Mentors are so important to those

just getting started.

And on the same topic there’s this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/22/opinion/remote-work-gen-z.html

[Demsrule86]

10. Not anymore. I am telling you it is a different world. There is way more bullying

Than mentoring.

[smirkymonkey]

11. +1000

Going back to the office appeals mostly to the micromanagers who would have very little to do if it didn't involve breathing down other people's necks in person.

[Norbert]

23. My boss is a major micro manager.

She manages through Microsoft Teams. It was a running joke when she would say, "I don't want to be a micro manager but..." We'd say to ourselves, 'BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING.'

In the first nine months of the year she was on-site about 5 days.

Widespread working from home may work for some companies but not ours. Our department is struggling and workers that are on-site most of the time are frustrated to the point where morale is very low.

Sorry but you need mentoring. I did a career switch 10 years ago to a more regulated industry and it helped a lot and I have 35 years experience in the field I worked.

[Quakerfriend]

12. What I'm saying is that mentoring is needed. And, yes I see that it is lacking.

My youngest got his first job out of college at Accenture and, I was sad to see that there was no mentoring what so ever. He could clearly see the ‘bullying’ by those who would step all over others just trying to move up into management.

[anti stupid]

14. you might become

Well maybe you won't become a batter banker, but you will probably become a better person by not being around banking mentors. LOL

[Dorian Gray]

19. I mean

that's probably true. lol

[Raftergirl]

17. My 28 yr old son started a new job at new company

a few months ago. It’s not easy starting a new job when WFH. He is now going in once a week. His company (multinational cyber security tech firm) has very strict protocols to go into the office.

You need to be approved to go in, then test every day for a week before going in and the test 3x a week after that, even if only going in one day. If you skip a week you need to start all over with the testing for 7 days. Vaccination is also mandatory.

His company supplies the tests. They sent him 50 boxes of rapid tests.

Only the Texas office complained and corporate (where my kid works) told them too bad, get over it.

Just going into the office once a week has made the adjustment to new position (he heads a team) easier.

[Happy Hoosier]

20. I will say this....

A lot of informal training happens in an office. I can't speak for banking, but the classic "coffee break" conversations led me to some significant career advancements.

Now that I'm a "gray beard," this doesn't hurt me, but I do try to deliberately reach out to younger members of my teams to talk to them less formally, just to see how things are going for them, and to find out what their career interests are. I try to offer advice and guidance when I can, but it does feel less "organic."

[Silent3]

22. Schmoozing

It's something I've never been good at, or particularly wanted to be good at, but in a lot of jobs it is what's needed to advance.

Fortunately in software, which is what I can do, you can advance up to a point based on skill -- at least climb in pay, if not very far in title.

And that's where I am now. I'm doing pretty well moneywise, but could be doing a lot better if I'd ever wanted to move up into management. Which I don't. I'm 59 and simple want to coast into retirement staying near the bottom of the totem pole.

While working from home as much as I can, of course.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. I guess schmoozing happens in some offices/industries....

... but like you, I am in a technical field. I am an engineer.

The mentor/mentee relationships I have been involved with have been less about schmoozing and more about building Communities of Interest.

I got my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, but gravitated towards Systems Engineering, which is what I got my M.S. in. And although many engineering schools now offer an SE B.S., most S.E.s start out with a degree in one of the more basic engineering types. Finding good SEs can be hard.... it requires more of a "big picture" perspective, while being able to delve into details in many different disciplines. So one thing I do is try to spot young engineers who seem to have the "systems mindset" and, if they are interested, introduce them to systems engineering. This is less about politicking than it is about scouting out the right kind of talent.

How do you spot an extrovert engineer? They're the one looking at YOUR shoes instead of their own.