For all I can tell, the Build Back Better bill is now dead

[wryter2000]

If people here are happy with the infrastructure bill, that's fine. It's a great accomplishment. However, the chances are now dim to none we'll get anything else. Manchin and Sinema were only negotiating so they could get the infrastructure bill. They no longer have to worry about getting that.

There are probably more "moderate" Dems in the House and the Senate who have been keeping quiet and can now breathe a sigh of relief that they don't have to deal with the BBB.

If I'm wrong, y'all have permission to rub my nose in my negativity. I'll help you. Anyone who knows me here knows I'm not a unicorn and pony type. I was and am all for taking things out of the BBB to get it passed. I don't care if Bernie wanted 6T and then it went down to 3.5T and then 1.7T. I was perfectly happy with 1.7.

If by some miracle we escape the curse of the midterm elections, get two more Senators, and keep the House, we may very well get a new BBB with a new Congress. Without those wins, the BBB is dead. I will dance on my own grave if I'm wrong.

[a kennedy]

1. and zero chance for ANY Repubs to vote for it right?? 🤬 🤬 🤬

[wryter2000]

2. Of course

Do you think any will?

[PortTack]

3. I know there's a lot of ppl saying this. I will go with President Biden and our dem leaders who

Are far from giving up.

Please...let’s support our dem leaders as they move forward with this next piece of legislation

[wryter2000]

10. They can't exactly say they're giving up

And if we have more control after the midterms (unlikely but possible) we could have a new and better bill.

[Demsrule86]

27. No, much better to get something and go back...if we win the midterms. I heard them say the

same thing about the ACA and it wasn't true then and it is not true now...get what you can and go back...so you accomplish something. As some say, 'don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.'

[bigtree]

4. the Senate will now, essentially, write the BBBb

...and progressives will again be challenged to vote for a bill which eviscerates many of their initiatives.

Senate 'moderates' will do their best to try and make progressives the holdouts, and hoping beyond hope that progressives opposing the poison pills moderates put in there will, themselves, kill the legislation for them.

[wryter2000]

8. Let's remember there are moderates in the House, too

They haven't been vocal, like the Terrible Two, but they're there.

[jimfields33]

11. Progressives didn't vote for the first one. Moderates did.

[Celerity]

12. Ridiculously false claim, 90 of the 96 members in the Progressive Caucus voted Yes on the BIF

Progressives didn't vote for the first one

The other 6 were allowed to do symbolic protest votes as Pelosi had enough votes to pass it without the 6. IF some (or even all) of those 6 votes were needed to pass the BIF, they would have voted for it. This has happened with even closer margins before on other votes.

[Bettie]

24. People seem to forget that they constantly declare

that Nancy Pelosi never, ever puts up a vote without knowing how everyone is voting.

If a conservadem votes against something, we're told that they had permission to do do.

If a progressive votes against something it is the END OF THE WORLD and clearly a betrayal of all of the things in the world..oh noes!

[Demsrule86]

28. I doubt that and the votes are what they are...the Senate is 50 50.

The House isn't much better. I will be thrilled with 1.7 trillion and any of the good stuff in the bill.

[Hoyt]

5. Think you are being too pessimistic. Something will pass, and it will be a big improvement.

[wryter2000]

9. As I said

I'll be thrilled to admit I was wrong.

[jalan48]

6. Is the biggest existential threat facing humans covered under the bipartisan bill just passed?

[Celerity]

13. I'm still hopeful we get the BBB passed, but I do fear it may, may end up being chopped down more

than it already has.

There is a very good chance that there are going to be a lot of things that the House puts into their version of the BBB that Manchin and likely Sinema are going to refuse to support.

Also, the parliamentarian is likely to disallow some things too (immigration reform is likely to not be allowed at all) and there is zero chance that we will overrule the parliamentarian.

[brush]

14. I think you're wrong. Pessimism at this point helps nothing.

[Doodley]

15. If Democratic lawmakers could sell this bill to the people, all Democrats would be incentivized to

support it. That isn't happening. We've seen poll numbers that show Americans have very limited understanding of this bill, and that opens it up as an easy target for Republicans and R/W media to attack it and define it in their terms. The lack of clear messaging is the thing that I don't understand. Lawmakers need to sell the benefits of this legislation to the people and sell it to their colleagues, create some passion and excitement, in the same way Republicans are so good at selling resentment, grievances and hate. Most people think the Democrats have been divided over these bills, but have little other knowledge. That needs to change.

[wryter2000]

19. IMHO much of the problem is the media

What are we supposed to do when they call it a “spending package”? Or a “massive spending package” after it’s been cut in half? We can message all we want to no avail as long as that is what they hear over and over, along with “Dems fighting with each other.”

[Doodley]

20. That's my point. We need to control the narrative. We (Democratic lawmakers) needed to be making

media tours to explain what these bills do and why it is so important. We can't just blame the media. We need to be ahead of the story with passion and excitement.

[Demsrule86]

29. We don't have the media coverage...the media has been right wing ...even MSNBC. And you assume

that everyone wants what is in the bill...I don't. We shall have to see. There is a reason why moderates want what they want...it has to do with reelection. When the ACA passed, Moderates took the poison and voted for it knowing they would lose the next election and we spent 10 years in the minority...don't want that to happen again myself. Let's pass what we can and move on...what we pass will increase the appetite for more...actions speak louder than words.

[malaise]

16. It's painful to think about it but

This is still a BFD - the Slobfather and ReTHUGs failed big time on infrastructure - this is a start and yes I really wanted more

[leftstreet]

18. +1 By Monday no one will be talking about this disaster

Obviously why they did this on a Friday night

If the BBB passes at all, it will have to be another Friday News Dump

So many missed opportunities here for the Dems to dominate the midterms

[Demsrule86]

30. This is not a disaster and it is a big fucking deal...it will help Americans in every damn state.

It is a very popular bill for most.

[leftstreet]

32. Okay. Then it'll probably dominate the news cycle

cool

[Thunderbeast]

21. When pork barrel earmarks were "reformed"

the ability to use bribery to get votes was impaired. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was only passed when LBJ promised southwestern legislators to build the disasterous Glen Canyon Dam and Lake Powell.

It is much harder to win legislative votes without the pork. I have said many times that if Biden promised to build job- creating (but useless) submarine bases in West Virginia and Arizona as part of BBB, this would have been settled months ago.

I am not advocating for corrupt governance, but it is useful to understand why it is so difficult to pass major legislation in a bipartisan way.

[mcar]

22. I'll say it again

I’m amazed that DU has so many members who know more than Pres. Biden, VP Harris, and Speaker Pelosi.

[wryter2000]

23. Just maybe

All he people you mention feel the BBB is dead and therefore we need to get what we can.

[mcar]

25. I heard Biden say this morning

BBB would pass. Do you think he’s lying?

[Demsrule86]

31. And maybe they are correct? Who knows. I am not convinced this is true however. Time will tell.

I am glad we passed a bill... the first time in more than a decade such a bill has passed with bipartisan support.

[msfiddlestix]

26. talk about throwing cold water on a celebration.

couldn't it wait?

[wryter2000]

34. If this was all we needed for a huge victory

Why didn't we do it before?

[msfiddlestix]

35. scratching my head here

I only paid scant attention to the dynamics wrt to the back and forth, playing for the other "team" obstructing at every turn and at every opportunity... and even I know enough to understand that this happening at all was nearly miraculous.

And from what I understand just from listening to news pundits, well it was not even expected to pass last night.

Given just this much understanding, not to mention every bloody detail I hadn't included in this post mostly because I have merely a rough and general idea from nightly news reports.

So yeah, this is a big effen deal that it passed at all. A long time ago? hmm. don't think so.

[fishwax]

33. I understand the sentiment, but we live in our hopes and not in our fears

I am not without fear that you're right, but I do hope that you're wrong, as I'm sure you do. This has been a long and exhausting process, and people are worn out on both sides of the internecine debate. But hopefully the we'll be able to move quickly back into moving together to advance the agenda and get some form of the BBB passed. If it doesn't, the struggle to keep the coalition together for next year's midterms will be that much harder, to be sure, and the distrust engendered (on both sides) by this process certainly isn't going to help that.

When they decided to drop the simultaneous strategy, many said it was becasue they trusted Biden to have this deal close enough to get it across the finish line. And there seems to be good reason to suggest that Sinema is there, and maybe Manchin is close enough to get this done too. Here's hoping!

:kick:

[Elessar Zappa]

36. You may be right but

I still have a sliver of hope that some version of the BBB will pass. I have to stay optimistic and realistic for the sake of my mental health. You know, hope for the best, expect the worst.