General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVideo of Mormon temple using a hidden camera going viral
From Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/11umj8/video_of_mormon_temple_using_a_hidden_camera/
Could this affect the Christian Right's apparent new-found comfort with Mitt and Mormonism?
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Except like Scientology, you pay to be a member.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)A witches brew if ever I saw one. And I think I saw wings under the jacket of the monkey in charge.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)They have highly strict requirements of giving 10% of your income. You can't enter a Temple without having donated 10%.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)They also tell you, based on this info, how much to donate to political candidates and causes, including Prop 8 in CA.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)You have to pay. And of course the more $$$ the more access.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Just amazing!
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)I was thinking if it were fake the LDS church would be tearing into it by now.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)and totally agree.
If it's organized, involves a lot of money and people, it's probably whacked out stupid.
eggplant
(3,964 posts)No, it's Citizens United!
Hey, maybe we should start the "Church of United Citizens"!
FreeState
(10,661 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)That's far from secret.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)Never claimed it was as I was not replying to someone who was talking about this video but secret ceremonies.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)and not to the actual items and it is an old link. Do you have another link that will go to the actual LOC items? Thank you.
FreeState
(10,661 posts)However it may not be online yet, you might have to request a physical copy (the whole congressional record isn't online unfortunately)
Here is a transcript online http://mit.irr.org/mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony (one of many, it's been online for many many years, the video in the OP is a new video but its not anything that hasn't been online since at least 1996 or earlier)
littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)/
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)So unrealistic. Moroni, alas, seems to have missed a few Social Studies classes in grammar school.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)It's so patently bogus, you have to wonder about the sanity of anyone who believes in it
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)To credit the 'Book of Mormon' as an authentically antique document is to openly confess oneself a fool.
littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)You can't attend - that doesn't make them secret,it makes it members only for the religious cerimony - stupid but far from secret.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....the Masons also have "not secret" rituals that you can't attend.
FreeState
(10,661 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...After watching this video, I can see why they want to keep it a secret, especially this close to electing a Mormon to the highest office in the country.
FreeState
(10,661 posts)Does that make them secret? Because the general public isnt invited? The endowment ceremony here is part of an LDS wedding by the way.
The ceremony has been online for years and years, the church has done squat to have it removed, yup sounds like a secret! /sarcasm
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Rainngirl
(243 posts)It's just the opposite. I was hired to photograph a Mormon wedding once, but was only allowed to shoot the reception in an annex building away from the main temple. I wasn't allowed to see or shoot the ceremony. In fact, I wasn't allowed even near the temple doors. I think anyone who believes this crap is nuts or really, really lost. But then I am one who doesn't like any rituals more complicated than, say, brushing my teeth and showering--especially rituals just made up by some patriarchal, racist goons who want to have extra wives and be gods on other planets.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)for I have heard that some parents are not allowed in to the weddings because they were not Mormons
The point I was trying to make is that if one was passing a church and a wedding was going on I do not think they would stop you from just observing the marriage except the Mormons, but they go to temple
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)that's a cultish practice.
and the secrets are odious, especially towards women.
for years, the theology was used to say that black people were cursed.
for years, the church wouldn't even allow black members, and even when that was lifted, they were denied full membership.
our own President would have been denied membership by your own Brigham Young when he was acting as prophet --and a vicious racist he was when he was claiming to be a prophet of God.
vicious.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)My Mormon relatives consider blacks inferior and unclean.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)My friend's family thinks Blacks are literally subhuman, and say the LDS Leadership was forced to 1. admit blacks to BYU 2. not segregate blood by race (which LDS hopsitals did until about 1980) and 3. allowed black men into the priesthood by the US Government.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)I have never heard of one that wasn't, especially if one is a congregant. Maybe for certain VIPs because of security concerns. My parents' church's bulletin and website notes upcoming weddings.
Receptions are a different story.
Also, a Catholic can go to a Baptist wedding and vice versa. Someone Jewish isn't barred from a Unitarian wedding just because they aren't Unitarian. Methodists, as I know for a fact, welcome Buddhists at their weddings.
braddy
(3,585 posts)if they don't have a Temple recommend, even Ann's parents were not allowed to witness their Temple ceremony, they had to remain outside, and not because they weren't "invited", they were forbidden entrance.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Only her parents and grandparents were there. None of her siblings or inlaws or friends were allowed to attend.
I have known some pretty hardcore Fundies and Catholics, and even the most hardcore would never ban a loved one from someone's wedding.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)I can guarantee you that if/when I get married it will not be "open to the public" unless it's held in a public area.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Churches don't tend to close/restrict their sanctuaries, even for weddings, funerals, christenings, etc., regardless of denomination. It's usually a given that any congregant who wants to attend can, and many churches note upcoming nuptials in their bulletins. I am specifically talking about Christian and Unitarian churches.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)so I don't know squat about how churches (the real estate end) are operated.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)AllyCat
(16,787 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Wedding photos as well.
If the wedding is held in a public space, people may observe it.
There's pretty much no parallel here.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)allowed to witness the joining of their daughter to Mitt in the Temple ceremony.
Utah_liberal
(101 posts)This argument that its not secret because someone used a spy camera to record temple rituals is ridiculous. The Mormon church will not deny that temple ceremonies are secret. The mormons have never published or provided video of temple ceremonies because they are secret. Anything on YouTube, books, film, etc. that shows a temple ritual was secretly recorded. I am an ex Mormon. I know for a fact they don't want you to see that.
Response to Utah_liberal (Reply #175)
Utah_liberal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Ask any Mormon to describe their marriage ceremony.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And upper management where I work must then have "Secret lunches"
Although we know what is discussed, and minutes are written up, it must be super secret...
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)I can read how much they care about people but I am not allowed to watch them at work ..............
Sebass1271
(2,332 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)yes, in your religion too.
FreeState
(10,661 posts)but then again apparently Im misleading people by pointing out if something is readily available and has been for years and years its not a secret. Yes attack me, someone you have no clue about - next time you might want to look at a posters icon, gay buddhist =/= Mormon.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)It's Elite only, and those elite are sworn to keep what they see and experience secret... even from other members of the LDS.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Listen, you can have whatever "opinion" on a word's definition you want but that isn't really how things work.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)and as far as political parties are concerned I believe they have taken the masses out of the political process and should be broken up. It has gotten to the point that the elected have become more beholding to the party than the people that vote. That is why 50% of this country do not vote. Think about that ..........
And as far as opinions it is important to question definitions to progress.
the word 'nice' used to have a completely different definition years ago
OH!! if you want to believe that things work a certain way then why have progressives??
braddy
(3,585 posts)renewed every 12 months, only the elite Mormons with a Temple recommend are allowed into the glorious, beautiful, incredibly ornate and expensive Temples, the regular Mormons attend regular church like buildings and are not privy to the secrets.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)and at a certain point in the temple you have to be wearing the undies to pass.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)I know those getting married have to have a ritual bath, too, before they can enter the temple proper. Not sure if everyone has to.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)marshall
(6,667 posts)You're witnessing secret rituals between two people, and it's a lot more interesting.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)waddirum
(987 posts)Videos like the one in this thread are very rare and hence more titillating.
marshall
(6,667 posts)And whether the parties know they are being filmed.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)no, you cannot. Some Mormons can't either. If the ceremony takes place in a temple, you must be a Mormon with a letter from your Stake President called a Temple Recommend, which states that you are a Mormon in good standing and who believes in the tenets of the Mormon faith. When Mitt Romney was Stake President a known Mormon feminist applied for a Temple Recommend in order to attend a family wedding. It was only because she had been promised by another Mormon official that Romney issued it. The article I read this in stated that Romney told her that she "wasn't my kind of Mormon" when he handed it over.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but ask FreeState to describe their own temple work/visits and find out how freely shared it is.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)They claim they aren't secretive, but yet they totally are, and they either deny or explain away stuff when their secrets are exposed.
It was a HUGE deal when that woman, ex LDS, wrote a book in the very early 90's, and described the temple ritual in full. She received major death threats for doing this.
And, they also have "Lying for the Lord," just like the LDS (although they have no Lord, just an evil alien warlord named Xenu), as well as attacking those who expose their secrets and infiltrating the government (see White Horse Prophecy). I have seriously often wondered if L. Ron Hubbard stole some strategies from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, because certain things are so similar.
FreeState
(10,661 posts)I am no longer a member - I dont believe in the Church. What do you want to know? (By the way I included several links in this thread to the actual text of the ceremony that is online - even sent a link to the Library of Congress record of it, sounds like Im trying to not freely share it?)
You would think my gay buddhist icon would tip you off that Im not Mormon?
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)for public consumption. So in that sense they could be deemed "secret"
FreeState
(10,661 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)This is the very first paragraph on the site you linked:
"A note to the reader: Practicing members of the LDS Church regard the temple ceremonies, including the text of the endowment ceremony, as sacred and not to be divulged to the world or discussed with others. They take an oath not to make this information public. Former temple-going members who have left the LDS Church, on the other hand, often view their oath as invalid or non-binding. Although we do not regard the LDS temple ceremonies as sacred and do not agree with the idea of keeping sacred things secret, we understand and acknowledge that some Mormons may be offended by the publication of details concerning LDS temple ceremonies. It is definitely not our intention to mock Mormons or their practices; our intention is simply to make information available to those who are looking for it. We encourage readers to be circumspect about bringing up these things when engaged in discussion with practicing Mormons."
Let's repeat that: "Practicing members of the LDS Church regard the temple ceremonies, including the text of the endowment ceremony, as sacred and not to be divulged to the world or discussed with others. They take an oath not to make this information public." Does this not imply the very secrecy that you continue to deny exists? Why the continued defense of the indefensible?
Additionally, there is no mention in the site you linked of any mention of replacing the "civil government" with a "religious government administered by Mormons" as stated in the video linked by the OP. Why is that exactly? If it's not secret, why is it missing from the text on this site?
braddy
(3,585 posts)As Gordon Hinckley has written.
"May I speak also of a matter pertinent to temples? I remind you of the absolute obligation to not discuss outside the temple that which occurs within the temple. Sacred matters deserve sacred consideration. We are under obligation, binding and serious, to not use temple language or speak of temple matters outside."
"Please, brethren, do not discuss outside of the temple that which occurs in the temple. While there, you are at liberty to do so. If you have questions, you may speak with the temple president or one of his counselors. But when you leave the doors of the House of the Lord, be true to a sacred trust to speak not of that which is holy and sanctified.
Said the Lord, Remember that that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit. (D&C 63:64.) And again, Trifle not with sacred things. (D&C 6:12.)"
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i have never believed the "sacred not secret" BS.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)I wonder what Mitten's secret name is.
Smilo
(1,948 posts)Secret groups - I outgrew those when I was 11.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Organized Religion: Silly stories, silly hats.
lolly
(3,248 posts)But if someone has a pic of him in that get-up, I think that would be all she wrote!
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)hilarious as the images themselves. Imaging Rmoney with a veiled Ann in front of the cirle of horned oxen though creepy is hysterical.
Response to snagglepuss (Reply #398)
Shankapotomus This message was self-deleted by its author.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I'll provide links, because it sounds like I made it up, but it is true.
Mormons believe that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden. They have decided that the Garden of Eden was located in Spring Hill, Missouri. These lands are still sacred to the Mormon religion. They still maintain this belief of a Missourian Garden of Even today. This is not something that they thought long ago, but have since re-thought.
"Joseph Smith said in 1832 that the land where Adam and Eve lived after being cast out of the Garden was called Adam-ondi-Ahman (roughly translated to mean "Adam with God" or "Adam in the valley of God" . In 1838 the location of Adam-Ondi-Ahman was revealed as a place then called Spring Hill (or Wight's Ferry) in Missouri. After the Mormons were kicked out of Missouri it was renamed Cravensville.
Now, most of the site that Joseph said was Adam-ondi-Ahman is owned by the Church and is used as farmland and a visitor site. It is about 3000 acres and is located on the bluffs above the Grand River in Daviess County, Missouri. You can learn more about the site at the "Related Links" below."
Source Link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_Mormons_believe_the_first_man_and_woman_lived
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)thought I was watching something out of Rosemary's Baby or something X_X
So decades of being told Mormonism is a cult suddenly have friends on the right to ignore that. Just rather conservative in that approach. Won't be doing that it's still a cult. Churches shouldn't be forced to accept gays either but Mormonism has always been something on the fringe. Similar to the Catholic faith of Mel Gibson.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)They said they didn't do that shit any more. But they are still doing it. What the fuck is this?!
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)thanks for the nightmares OP LOL
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)When I watched it, I was saying, "What fresh hell is this?!?!?" Holy fucking shit! Can't the Republican Party find a candidate to run that isn't a freaky ass space alien worshiping cultist?
hatrack
(60,334 posts)I particularly liked the bit about the oath of blood vengeance against the United States.
Fucking lovely.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)on every right leaning website that we can!! Wonder what freepers would think of this?
Volaris
(10,468 posts)and relpace it with a bunch of heathen, Pagan devil-worship.
Or something to that effect. Although, considering that a lot of this seems to spring from old Masonic Rites, maybe they will have a collective Freak-out, and decide they would rather stay home on election day, than try to get their little minds around the idea that ALL religions beleive some wierd and illogical shit.
What strikes me as funny though, is the idea that there is still a "Veil" at all. In Christian mythology, at the moment of Christ's death, there was an earthquake, and as a result, the "veil" seperating the Holy of Holies from the rest fo the Temple was ripped apart, and there was no longer a barrier between God and Man, all was open and accessible.
My personal expierence of this idea was the first time I was in the Sacristacy of a Catholic Church....there isn't anything special back there. No great secret, nothing that needs to be sought out, nothing special or distinct. THAT'S the secret. And when YOU figure that out, too, THEN you and I can truly Commune with each other on a deep spiritual level, in a way that we can't do with those who still think there IS something between God and Man.
There's nothing back there. Since the time of the dissappearance of the Ark of the Covenant, there HASEN'T been anything back there. And in that nothing, lie the keys to REALLY understanding all of the "something's" that are happening inside our Spiritual Selves. Christ knew this. So did The Buddah. So do a good number of modern Atheists.
Welcome to the Real World, Neo. We do hope you enjoy your stay.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Seriously, this is some messed up, disturbing stuff.
The fact that Romney belongs to a church that has declared the United States an enemy is relevant indeed.
Remember how the Republicans spent weeks trying to discredit Obama, simply because Reverend Wright made some incendiary statements? They asserted that because Obama had attended that church, that he agreed with everything Wright said. Obama hadn't even attended that church recently!
Now, we discover that Romney's religion--one in which he was an elder and a full-blown PASTOR.
Mormon's also believe that Adam and Even lived in the Garden of Eden---and that the Garden of Eden was in Spring Hill, Missouri.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_Mormons_believe_the_first_man_and_woman_lived
Uhhhhh....okaayyy---
"Joseph Smith said in 1832 that the land where Adam and Eve lived after being cast out of the Garden was called Adam-ondi-Ahman (roughly translated to mean "Adam with God" or "Adam in the valley of God" . In 1838 the location of Adam-Ondi-Ahman was revealed as a place then called Spring Hill (or Wight's Ferry) in Missouri. After the Mormons were kicked out of Missouri it was renamed Cravensville.
Now, most of the site that Joseph said was Adam-ondi-Ahman is owned by the Church and is used as farmland and a visitor site. It is about 3000 acres and is located on the bluffs above the Grand River in Daviess County, Missouri. You can learn more about the site at the "Related Links" below."
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)With it's aspects of secrecy, the oath for a theocratic state is not unlike what a few fundies preach.
Fascinating though...
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I don't remember that being the case. Most of the Catholic secrets are basically out now.
CountAllVotes
(20,972 posts)It was a long long time ago. The Mormons were trying to convert my very CATHOLIC mother to their ways.
They managed to get her and the rest of my family to attend a baptism at one of their temples and yes, it scared the shit out of me too!
The little boy being baptized was held under the water for about a minute or longer. I wondered if they were going to drown him, I really did.
After that, my late father decided that he did not want these people coming around bothering his family any longer and he dealt with it in a way that most men would not have dealt with it.
However, his attempt to be rid of them worked like a charm and they quit coming around to the house and bothering my mother.
They are freaks of the worse sort IMO and dangerous, plain dangerous.
As for Jesus and all of that stuff, uh huh ... yeah ... right ...
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Do they believe in aliens? And doesn't that veil thingie mimic early practices in the Bible? It also reminds me of Egyptian rituals.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Anthony McCarthy
(507 posts)Holy cows, what a bunch of obviously pagan symbolism. I guess this will separate the goats from the sheep. Surprised to see the cheesy Masonic clap trap.
hatrack
(60,334 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)hehe
hatrack
(60,334 posts)littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)LisaL
(46,140 posts)How do you like them apples?
The Hitman
(562 posts)pretty soon it just may
LisaL
(46,140 posts)Doesn't it make so much sense to write in Jesus instead?
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I know the right wing Christians where I live would freak out if they saw this.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Lynch deals in dream images. The LDSers seem to traffic in nightmares that manage to remain astonishingly banal. Still, that is deeply weird shit that the Mormons get up to.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)Clothes, furniture, interior decor...
And ritual that dwarfs any Catholic practice.
Spooky.
And yet, this is Mitt's world.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)progressoid
(50,425 posts)...people.
reusrename
(1,716 posts)I guess white hoods would be too on the nose.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...replacing the "civil government" with a "religious government administered by Mormons".
Is that what they think will happen if Romney is elected president???
LisaL
(46,140 posts)jerseyjack
(1,361 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Romney is a full temple member and him and Ann have participated in these rituals so they are fruitcakes at best
braddy
(3,585 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)aletier_v
(1,773 posts)Berlum
(7,044 posts)They want to take down the USA.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)That's a basic tenet of the cult.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I'm always interested in this kind of thing. Secret stuff intrigues me.
hatrack
(60,334 posts)nt
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)It looks like a cheesy B flick. Is this seriously what they do in their Temple?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)FreeState
(10,661 posts)Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)It's quite over the top. It also goes against some core teaching that Evangelicals believe.
The Hitman
(562 posts)Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)I'd forgotten about that controversial bit from HBO. It showed some of what it's like, but it didn't show the depth of the rituals they preform.
This is some odd stuff.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)to watch. Many remember the late Walter Martin. I don't think it ends well for the Romneys.
It's the New Agers ... equally detested by the RWers ... that truly believe that all personal beliefs are fine, as long as they are sincere and don't try to force them on others.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Just whoa.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,289 posts)Looks more like a fraternity initiation (without the liquor) than a religious ceremony, and the "Celestial Room" resembles a hotel lobby.
I will grant you that most religions have some rituals and beliefs that, viewed objectively, seem kind of weird. Most of us are so familiar with traditional Christianity that we hardly notice the weird parts any more. But I can understand why some Christians might consider the LDS church cultic and heretical, especially the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are actually separate, individual gods, and there's all that goofy stuff with secret handshakes and veils they stole from the Freemasons. And the planet Kolob. You've got to be kidding me, Mormons. A planet?
They actually have a hymn about the planet Kolob in their hymnal:
It's actually quite beautiful - it's set to a lovely English folk song, Dives and Lazarus. But the lyrics are seriously strange:
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?
Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, No man has found pure space,
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.
The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to grace.
There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Effing spot on. ROFLMAO.
That said the planet Kolob belief blows me away. I am shocked that I have never read about it before this. I wonder if L R Hubbard glommed on to this when he created scientology.
waddirum
(987 posts)eom
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I came to DU originally to express my personal "concern" if you will, about the Mormon connection to American politics and Mitt Romney. I wrote about it probably in excess but it seems there was plenty of information that was getting around. Here is a great example and a reminder of how crazy it is. With Romney and the Mormons, you have connections between church and state that are not only utterly bizarre but pose a danger to the constitution and our freedoms.
I got quite a lot of support here on the subject but also a lot of disbelief, and I don't blame those who thought my message was too weird to be true. But true it is.
Thanks Hitman for backing up the facts about that zany and madcap world of Mormonism.
Who would want that for president?
Cha
(302,857 posts)to thank you for exposing what did, defacto.
mitt's obviously a dangerous man and the Mormonism is part of him and should not be "off limits" because it's his religion. Not mormonism.
The corporatemedia didn't keep Obama's religion off limits.
ReallyIAmAnOptimist
(357 posts)... is (1) that Mormonism was officially racist until 1978, and (2) they believe they will take over the US -- see the White Horse Prophesy [http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11635-romney-a-horse-of-a-different-color].
Worried about Separation of Church and State?
renate
(13,776 posts)And I certainly share your worries. It's crazy, isn't it, that a devoted, dedicated member of a church with a history like that is even close to becoming President?
DonRedwood
(4,359 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)I had no idea this religion was so far-removed from Christianity.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)and it's real
Phoonzang
(2,899 posts)It always works that way.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Imagine that would feel like a kind of freaky waterboarding if it were alive. At least the Catholics just sprinkle a few drops of holy water and the protestants make them wait until they are of the age of accountability.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Many mainline Protestant churches baptize infants, but wait until the teenage years to teach the church doctrines and bring those young people who accept the church teaching officially into the church through the Confirmation ceremony. Yours truly had a doctrinal difference with the pastor and did not even attempt confirmation.
Roman Catholics also baptize infants, then teach the children enough doctrine to do First Communion at what, 7 or 8 and then do Confirmation at 10 or so. Catholic DUers, please feel free to correct me.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Mariana
(14,914 posts)Poiuyt
(18,213 posts)ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)So we have two guys who are/were co-chairs for the Romney campaign. One takes out an ad to out a gay reporter publicly as revenge for making an investigative series on the LDS church covered up child molestation and the other ran an organization that tortured and molested children.
These men were hired by the Romney Campaign.
. . .
In shorter terms, Mitt Romney & Bain Capital owned a facility that tortured, molested, and even killed children.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/21/1148077/-Mitt-Romney-Pals-Around-with-Child-Molesters
littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:30 AM - Edit history (1)
http://www.lds-mormon.com/mittromney2012.shtmlLeftyMom
(49,212 posts)I was raised Roman Catholic, so the thing that struck me was the awful production values. :O
aletier_v
(1,773 posts)Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Queen Ann only gets to go if he decides to invite her. Even if she's the best Mormon housewife in the history of Mormon housewives, the unspoken threat behind their relationship is that she has to keep him happy or she can't go to heaven and spend eternity with her creepy kids, because her eternal fate isn't up to some god, it's up to Mitt.
Bonus fact: If Mitt were to be a widower and remarried, he could be married to both wives in the afterlife. No great surprise, it doesn't work that way for the ladies- they have to pick one.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)He can reject any or all of his wives, and she is stuck in the not-really-heaven Gentile Heaven.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,289 posts)It's a weird pastiche of Old Testament stuff, Freemasonry and B-movie dialogue. For an allegedly Christian religion, they mention Jesus only in passing (yeah, he's our saviour, whatever; now let's get back to the secret handshakes). What I can't figure out is why anybody would want to go to a church that's so hokey and boring - as well as weird. OK, most religions have their weird moments, but at least give me some good music and inspiring thoughts to temper the weirdness. This was all weird. Also, no good music, bad production values and incoherent doctrine. And what were the guys wearing on their heads? Shower caps?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)"Don't get on that ship! The rest of the book,the Book of Mormon, it's...it's a COOKBOOK!!!
No way I ever want a Mormon to be President. jay-zo-peets!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I didn't know that Heaven looked like the lobby of a Marriott!
Marr
(20,317 posts)I was never taken to church as a kid, and grew up not knowing even the basic tenets of Christianity. When I started taking Art History in high school, I had the damndest time keeping the Biblical stories separate from the Greek myths in my mind. I was constantly mixing them up.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Which I'm not sure many people realized. I didn't.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)And BTW, there is not one scintilla of evidence that this Jesus person they all worship ever existed during the time of his supposed existence.
Just an FYI.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)working through the institutional version of God.
The Mormons are nuts, but then again so are all the others. There are a reported 41,000 versions of Christianity in the world today. All of them claiming to be The One True Faith and path to salvation.
I'm not in any way defending the Mormon version of crazy, but I think it is only a matter of degree.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Catholics do not believe in multiple gods. Catholic doctrine, and the writings of Church theologians, clearly state the parallelism of The Godhead. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being.
Three in One, and One in Three.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)I kept confusing their God with a psychotic.
_ed_
(1,734 posts)that a religion with multiple gods isn't polytheistic. "Three in one, and one in three." Try using that one in first grade math.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)And, that phrase was coined by the Anglican Church many years ago to explain the Trinity to children, since it is a concept that even adults struggle with, as your post to me shows. Legend says St. Patrick used a shamrock to explain the concept to the Irish. One can even use the three-headed dog guarding Hades, if one wants. Christianity is a monotheistic religions, as is Judaism and Islam.
It doesn't matter whether or not you believe it, which I personally do not, as I am an atheist, but even a nonbeliever can understand it from an academic POV.
_ed_
(1,734 posts)Religion is fucking absurd. Three headed dog, talking snake, three gods are really one...
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Such a void in your life.
So very open of you to not finish reading someone's thoughtful reply to you and just post you quit reading, so I will no longer continue a dialog with you that is not a dialog.
braddy
(3,585 posts)once, ALL Christian denominations from Greek Orthodox, to Protestant, to Catholic, agree that Mormonism is not Christian, and that they need to be baptized if they join a Christian church.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Well, it's about time. Where the hell have you been? There's about a billion of you that have been waiting for a couple millennia, not to mention the Jews that have been waiting for about six.
You've got a lot of work to do and I'm sure that it would be appreciated if you'd get to it, please.
braddy
(3,585 posts)from the Orthodox, to Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterian and others, and Catholic, they are all in agreement on Mormonism.
Mormonism is polytheistic for one thing and they believe that they can become Gods, and that God used to be a man, etc.
greyl
(22,991 posts)From Manitoba, Missouri looks a hell of a lot like the South and fits right in there.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...who live in the South.
Is that what you intended?
greyl
(22,991 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...throughout every state in the South so you'll be quite busy.
Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 03:15 AM - Edit history (1)
No, I didn't intend to piss off lots of Dems and progressives. Additionally, being someone in one of those states in the South, I doubt I did.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)greyl
(22,991 posts)It was about Mormonism and Christianity and how Mormonism looks from outside both Mormonism and Christianity.
cali
(114,904 posts)for one thing, JSmith isn't hidden in the mists of the ancient. He's a figure from the 19th century and it's not supposition that he was a con man; it's documented. Secondly, there are no great Mormon texts. You will never study The Book of Mormon as great literature. There are, that I have seen, no bits of great or original philosophy as there are in, for instance, The Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran.
Most main stream protestant churches don't practice the kind of "magic" that Mormons do. They believe that there is a heaven, but they don't encourage belief in planets that men rule over. Heaven, in fact, in most mainstream Christian religions, is a vague notion and the focus isn't on domination in heaven as it is in Mormonism. The rituals in Mormonism are far more elaborate and heightened. The secrecy is greater.
There's a lot more, but those are significant.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Apart from the age of the religion, of course.
When I finally learned the story of Moses, I laughed my ass off in exactly the same way I laughed at the story of Joseph Smith. And Mohammed, for that matter. They're basically the same story, and the same con, and I still can't believe people were so gullible as to fall for it when done right in front of them.
As for great writing, I've read the Bible. Let's be honest-- apart from a couple of choice sections like the Song of Songs, the Bible is not great literature. It's a fractured collection of self-contradictory Bronze Age scriblings, and that's exactly what most of it reads like. I haven't read the Book of Mormon, but I can't imagine it's any more nonsensical or boring than the Bible.
I also don't see any real difference between Mormon magic and mainstream Christian magic. Protestant churches seem to be more toned down in *style*, but the substance is no different. And if we compare it to a flavor of Christianity like Catholicism, I can't even see a difference in style.
lolly
(3,248 posts)Disclaimer--not a Christian--closer to agnostic, but--
In its defense, the bizarre stories and beliefs of the Bible (OT and NT) were written at a time when people really had no way of knowing any differently.
If you have no scientific explanation for why crops live or die, it might make sense to imagine/hope for a deity to control them, and then give sacrifices to that deity.
If you don't know anything about geology or evolution, theorizing that a deity created a man and a woman makes as much sense as anything else.
After 100s of years, these beliefs were too enmeshed with culture itself to disappear or diminish despite decreasing relevance.
Mormonism didn't arise in a culture from a collection of such beliefs; it was created whole-cloth by a huckster who wanted power and access to young women, and who knew how to use promises of magical rituals and an afterlife to pull people in. In that respect, it's definitely in the same category with Scientology and the Moonies.
SmileyRose
(4,854 posts)Good video and accurate
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)My recollection, and it is only that, is that Methodists believe God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are not separate, although I never could figure out the relationship to my satisfaction.
The belief that the Holy Trinity consists of three separate Gods wouldn't fit in there at all.
Any pastor who preached that would be recalled, counseled, and, if the pastor did not correct her/his view, would be defrocked.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but I just don't see this as Christianity.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,289 posts)the Nicene Creed is the accepted statement of doctrine in most denominations - the LDS Church isn't Christian at all, even though they claim to be. Designating Father, Son and Holy Spirit as separate gods would be nothing short of heresy. Same with their belief that Satan was Jesus' "spirit brother." And the idea that a good Mormon (male) gets his own planet after death, and he will be the "god" of that planet. And that "God" once lived on another planet with a higher god.
Mormon cosmology bears little resemblance to traditional Christianity. They claim to believe Jesus is the divine son of God, but the similarity seems to end there.
The Spanish Inquisition would have had a field day with the Mormons.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)It's just so different. Satan as Jesus's "spirit brother." Stand up in a Baptist church and proclaim that. Good luck.
I don't understand how the Conservative Christians can vote for this guy.
Well, I know how they can.
LeftInTX
(29,084 posts)Can't wait to show this video to my husband who's planning to vote for
Romney.
And he's voting for Romney cuz we're Catholic.
Bring on those old Catholics from Spain.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)I'd love to see the SI rake the Mormons over the coals--figuratively, of course.
I hope that the video brings your husband to his senses.
You know, I recall reading that Paul Ryan spoke at Georgetown U. a few months ago, and about 90 of the teachers and religious there wrote him a letter pointing out that his social policies had very little to do with Catholic teachings on those subjects, and asked him to consider whether the atheist Ayn Rand was a suitable teacher on social policies for a Catholic.
Maybe your husband would benefit from reading that letter. I don't have the cite available, but I'm sure that you can find it.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)If you don't believe that, you aren't Christian. I no longer believe that, so I'm not Christian.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)The Lords of Kobol are much cooler.
So say we all!
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Fla Dem
(25,211 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)The creator of BSG. There is a huge amount of LDS symbolism in the 1980 BSG, and some of course, still lingers in the new series.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)The exodus of the Twelve Colonies and their journey to Earth is comparable to the exodus of the Mormons from Missouri and their journey to Utah, IIRC.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)You should see if it's still there -- fascinating!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Where Count Iblis (aka the Devil) was trying to tempt the fleet, and these beings of light were buzzing the fleet and making Vipers disappear.
Turns out that they were akin to angels, and the interior of their spaceship looked like the Celestial Room in the Mormon Temple - white upon white EVERYTHING!
Yeah, I definitely see the Mormon influence.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)By necessity, the reimagined series had to keep some of the LDS trappings, but really toned it down quite a bit. I actually quite enjoyed the whole thread of the series being a faith journey for many of the characters, including clashes between mono and polytheism, refusing resurrection, Starbuck's situation, etc. I'm no longer a believer, but I think the new series handled it all very well.
The original series was one I watched as a child, and I loved it!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I'll bet that if you go into the super-secret sub-basements of the Mormon Temples, you'll see a Hybrid in a goo tub babbling metaphysics!
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)RiverStone
(7,237 posts)I would not expect it to cause a rightie to switch, but it may create a pause before voting for Mitt, who does not see the universe the same way as their fundie brains do.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)themselves never witness these rituals, or are allowed in certain parts of the temple? Is there any other religion that shuts so many people out of full participation (unless they tithe enough)? What I saw isn't terribly disturbing, anyway--just seemed silly.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Seriously, actually.
"Is there any other religion that shuts so many people out of full participation (unless they tithe enough)?"
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)And, what you saw is VERY serious, especially for women. They cannot get into Heaven unless their husband draws them through the veil. I had an LDS bishop tell me once that if a woman's husband dies, and she remarries, only the first husband can draw her through, and that is who she will have celestrial babies with on his planet... even if he died an hour after they were married, and she was married to her second husband for 70 years.
In the Gospels and The Acts, Jesus treats women about like equals, and is very loving to the,. Christianity, as per the Gospels and The Acts, is NOT a really sexist religion. In Mormonism, women are brood mares, and really not much else. BYU's biggest degree program for females is the MRS degree.
littlemissmartypants
(23,750 posts)http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/11umj8/video_of_mormon_temple_using_a_hidden_camera/
HarveyDarkey
(9,077 posts)LeftInTX
(29,084 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)toby jo
(1,269 posts)imagine if they had a history of burning people alive at a stake
and of an inquisition whereby people were systematically tortured
and of starting holy wars?
get your shit together people
it's goofy, not evil
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)Doctrine and history.
And reread The Gospels and The Acts.
LDS is much closer to Scientology than to Methodism or Catholicism.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Youtube vid "mocking" Islam? Thread after thread about intolerance and racism.
Youtube vid attacking Mormonism? Rec away.
This place sometimes.
RiverStone
(7,237 posts)I'm all for freedom of religion - tho in this case (as a severe conservative) he would impose his "religious beliefs" on the public. That's totally unacceptable. Gotta fight fire with fire.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)White Horse Prophecy. Remember Prop 8 and the millions of dollars they funneled into passing that in California.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...Did you watch the video? If so, does that appear to be similar to any religion you know?
eShirl
(18,695 posts)This should be interesting.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)This video calls into question the claim he has made to the voting public.
Doesn't matter to me, as I don't vote based on religion, but it does matter to some and they also deserve to know the truth about what they're voting for.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and telling about a religion is not attacking it.
in fact, the only people in my life who considered talking about Mormonism an "attack" were Mormon (the ones with few doubts about their religion...of course there were many with severe doubts who had the same concerns that us on the outside have about what they are told to believe).
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)one might assume you have to honesty and fairness, all in the name of scoring some imaginary points.
There is one reason and one reason only this video is out now, and here now.
That is to attack the religion of the repub nominee in order to discourage voters from voting for him. To slander him by slandering his religion.
It stinks.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Just don't demand I do as well.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)go ahead and join if you respect it so much.
let me know what you find out afterwards.
ChaoticTrilby
(211 posts)The OP's thread was meant for criticism of Romney and his own use of his faith for political aims. By claiming that his Mormonism is basically just like Christianity, he is intentionally misleading voters. It's skeevy. I do not vote based on faith, but I do base my vote at least slightly on how much a candidate can be trusted.
This is just further proof to indicate that Romney so enjoys deceiving people for his own gain and it is disgusting.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...when it is at best a religion based on the worship of multiple gods, and at worst a cult. Now we know why Mitt has never wanted to talk about Mormonism or his role in that organization.
As far as slandering Mitt goes, Mitt has done a far better job of doing that to himself than I could ever hope to do.
The video can speak for itself. If it causes people not to vote for Mitt, so be it.
siligut
(12,272 posts)And I know some ex-Mormons who hoped that Romney's candidacy would expose the cult for what it is. Maybe they will finally get some satisfaction.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)There are numerous links in this thread to documents in the Library of Congress that prove it is true. It is not slander when it is true.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)and that religion has hated and plotted vengeance against this country, and this politician's own grandparents were even outlaws against it...
You betcha, I'll plot against that religion all day long, up one side and down the other! No qualms about that whatsoever.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)EXCEPT, for the fact that Romney probably DOES plan on legislating his religion. Or, at least, he will try.
Even if he's President, though, he will fail to legislate any aspect of Mormonism. So this thread, IMO, is fair play.
Romney will, however, bring Calvinism to America. On steroids.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)So there's no reading between the lines needed
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I'm against theocracy of any kind, but there are many people that would absolutely balk at the thought of a god from another planet being the "God" Romney "returns" to American government. That thought is downright scary.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)You're damn right I'll attack his "religion" if it will hurt him. This isn't a game where honor and all that crap matters. These people want to destroy our way of life, we have to hurt them any way we can.
All religions should be scorned but this one in particular is threatening our country right now. If Romney wins we are beyond fucked. Any means necessary.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)We attack his religion, and all who belong to that religion, for the sole reason of harming his chances to be elected. Whatever works. No boundaries. Any means necessary.
That's pretty much it, yes?
Yeah.
Damn, MrSlayer, I generally like your posts.
Don't like this one, though.
So intolerant and kinda repulsive.
And if this is where we are, we're in bad shape this election.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...Before I saw this video and did some additional research I might have believed it too.
Just a quick comment./...just in case you haven't noticed, the President has been attacked and vilified by the right-wingers for more than fours years, going back to when he ran in 2008. Are you trying to tell us that Romney should be exempt from from the same treatment.
This is big-boy politics, so pull up your panties and get with it, or find something else to do.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)This is just one you are less familar with.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...until this video surfaced I knew very little of their inner workings. Now I'm making it my personal business to learn as much as I can about this cult, and it is most definitely a cult.
Most religions, and I've studied most of them, are a lot more open in sharing their core beliefs with outsiders. That's a big part of how they all recruit new converts.
Whether or not a true religion is "goofy" is in the eye of the beholder, but this video proves Mormonism is extreme in the truest sense of the word.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Is pretty fucking extreme to me LOL
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...The passage states, For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD . Whoever does any work on it must be put to death? Is that the passage to which you're referring?
If so, then you probably also know this passage is not taken literally by anyone these days but the most extreme believers, since it went out of favor with the decline of the rabbinical bet din court system in roughly the 3rd century AD.
Those who do take this passage seriously to the point of killing someone for working on the Sabbath are indeed on the very extreme edges of the Judeo/Christian belief system.
So, tell me again about Judeo/Christian religions being as extreme as the Mormon cult. What else you got?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)How about at the end of Matthews has 500 zombies walking around town,
Also, the simple fact that for a couple pretty minor crimes an all powerful all "loving" being will send you to a place of eternal torture in pretty extreme in itself. Not a whole lot of flowers and love being spread around
Also from a simple googles search-
Dont Get Married: 1st Corinthians 7:27 NASB
Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife.
Prayer (not doctors) if Youre Sick: James 5:14 NASB
Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up.
Women Should Shut Up in Church: 1st Corinthians 14:34 NASB
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak.
The Wealthy Will Be Condemned by God: James 5:1-5 NASB
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted
Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will
consume your flesh like fire. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
Women: Dont Dress Up, Fix Your Hair, or Wear Jewelry: 1st Peter 3:3 The Good News Translation
You should not use outward aids to make yourselves beautiful, such as the way you fix your hair, or the jewelry you put on, or the dresses you wear.
Return Runaway Slaves to Their Owners: Philemon 1:12 The Message
Im sending (the slave Onesimus) back to you
I wanted in the worst way to keep him here
But I didnt want to do anything behind your back
Maybe its all for the best that you lost him for a while. Youre getting him back now for goodand no mere slave this time, but a true Christian brother!
Gouge Out Your Eyeball: Matthew 5:29 New Living Translation
So if your eyeeven your good eyecauses you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.
Cut Off Your Own Hand: Matthew 5:30 New Living Translation
And if your handeven your stronger handcauses you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.
Never Swear an Oath: Matthew 5:34 Gods Word Translation
Dont swear an oath at all. (puts a new slant on the Pledge of Allegiance)
Dont Defend Yourself if Attacked: Matthew 5:39 Amplified Version
But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man [who injures you]; but if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other one too.
Give Anything You Have to Anyone Who Asks: Matthew 5:42 Common English Bible
Give to those who ask, and dont refuse those who wish to borrow from you.
Do NOT Pray in Public: (Matthew 6:6) Common English Bible
When you pray, go to your room, shut the door, and pray to your Father
in that secret place.
Dont Save Your Money: (Matthew 6:19) New Living Translation
Dont store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal.
Dont Plan for The Future: Matthew 6:34 NASB
So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself.
Do Not Marry a Divorced Woman: Matthew 5:32 NASB
Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Dont Wear Nice Clothes: Matthew 6:28-29 NASB
And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you?
Hate Your Family: Luke 14:26 NASB
If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters
he cannot be My disciple.
Give Away EVERYTHING You Own: Luke 14:33 NASB
So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...and all of it is part of the New Testament which was allegedly written by the end of the first Century AD. Admittedly, the books chosen to be part of the New Testament weren't completely decided upon until the fifth century AD, but we're still talking sixteen centuries ago.
I think even you will have to admit that Christian religious practices have changed a great deal since the fifth century AD.
Oh, FYI, the Crusades actually took place well after the fifth century AD, with the first crusade beginning in 1095.
What we're seeing on the video is CURRENT Mormon practices and rituals that began to take shape with the Mormon founder, Joseph Smith, Jr. in New York in 1830.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)I've got video
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)his religion.
George Zimmerman, etc.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Truly I am. But that's how afraid I am of what these guys are going to do If they should win. When you're in a battle for your life against people that will stoop to any level, you have to be prepared to do the same. I don't want it to be this way but in the face of Citizens United, the black box voting and the suppression movement all around the country I think not using this angle is a mistake.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL...
Funny, watching show with Stephen Hawking talking about the creation of the Universe and all matter in it last night. No need for any of humans silly mythological gods for any of that to happen
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)The Science Channel has been my anecdote to all the Right Wing Religious Wing Nut talk this silly season.
Heard enough of that in Catholic School, thank you very much.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)This shit is fair game now, folks.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)forced its members to donate on Prop 8 - inserting itself into politics.
If the politically-minded would like to explore this so-called "church" - that tries to influence law in this nation - we have an OBLIGATION to expose what, exactly, this church believes.
No one is suggesting forcing any changes on the Mormon church here.
The Mormon Church IS INSISTING on raising its tenets of bigotry, sexism, misogyny, polygamy, homophobia, racism, etc. to a level equal with US law.
You want to support Mormons? Great. You want a hands off approach to an institution that has its hands IN politics? Good for you.
We don't.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)My perspective is sometimes it's better to hold back for a moment and take a wait-and-see approach before jumping on this full-throttle...It could backfire if this video gets stamped to Mitt's campaign and personal beliefs too hard and too often, and he plays the sympathetic victim in response...
I'm not doubting the authenticity, but it's too sweet...The timing and magnitude of this "discovery" just creep me the fuck out...I'm not saying that makes it automatically bait; just don't fully embrace this opportunity yet...
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,374 posts)They started all this by acting like a religious Super Pac and flooding my state with hate money. If they don't like blowback they can stay out of politics.
highplainsdem
(51,478 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)It's just a video of what they actually do.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)who filtered millions of dollars into Prop 8 in California...from OTHER STATES. Sure, they are so powerless and just being picked on for their wacky beliefs. Poor things
Response to Skip Intro (Reply #104)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and sadly, for women married to husbands who do temple work, they may be one of many spiritual wives their husband has taken.
also, their spiritual fate (whether or not they go to heaven with their husband) is under his control and he can elect not to take her with him.
a lot of religions treat women badly and likewise, i think this LDS-specific belief is absolutely horrible for women.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Agree, this is pure pagan and un-Christian. They might as well erect a giant golden calf again, it would be the same thing.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)But . . . they practice "family values" and don't want to pay taxes, especially to support social welfare programs for all.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I think they don't want to pay taxes because they hate everything this country is about. Swearing vengeance against the US is a fairly big deal in my book, even if they claim to have dropped that -- I don't buy it. I see them as pretty similar to the David Koresh people, only with better PR maybe.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)I think that the break-away polygamists as similar to Koresh because women and girls are so abused. I think that there was justification in going in to protect the minors from sexual abuse and general neglect.
The non-polygamists seem to be more akin to very conservative Christians, but boy-o-boy they are NOT Christians in either the good or bad varieties of the religion.
Indpndnt
(2,391 posts)Seriously creepy. Mormonism, not Harry Potter.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)Yeah, this could affect the religious right's affection for Mitt.
I suppose the GOP is more worried about their wealthy voters than their fundie ones.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...after being convinced he was a Christian? I think they're going to be highly agitated if they see this video.
Hamlette
(15,483 posts)This people are adults. Must be completely brainwashed to do this temple thing.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)This is what happens when you're stuck in the desert for decades. You hang around the few waterholes with the oxen and have a lot of time on your hands.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)People don't realize (or refuse to realize) that in their culture, if you ain't Mormon, you ain't shit. If you won't convert, you are fair game for any crap they can lay on you.
That is not a stereotype. They consider themselves to absolutely be THE chosen people, and that is the culture they are raised in from the time they are in diapers.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,526 posts)But I never thought the religious right would vote for Romney if he got the nomination. We shall see.
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)they will never ask Romney about his religion because he said it was off limits. They were happy to play Obama's preacher 24/7 because he was black and he sounded mad at america, but this swearing of an oath to seek vengeance on america is nothing. /s
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)just simple facts. if Evangelicals don't have an issue with that, then they should drop their issues with Obama's religion.
and Mormonism differs from Christianity for this reason too:
"As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become."
and "man" as in "not woman".
LeftInTX
(29,084 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Tinksrival
(2,575 posts)Hi grantcart!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I had no idea.
mfcorey1
(11,045 posts)Satan and they say nothing about these people and this cult. This is some scary stuff. That is why Mitt and his family are so sure he will win. They have made a pact with the devil. LOL Anyhow, that I am possessed look in in Tagg, Mitt and Ann's eyes. Anyone know a good exorcist?
Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)Ilsa
(62,098 posts)of LDS a few years ago, but they were NOT permitted to view or record the veil ceremony or the Celestial Room, or record the swearing of the blood oath against the US. The touching involved in wedding ceremonies wasn't discussed, either. It was more or an overview of the church and its history.
My understanding is that part of what makes LDS a cult is the difficulty in Leaving it, especially if you live in a community that is LDS, because then your livelihood is affected. Also, they are strict on tithing. An LDS friend said they require you to show W-2 information. I have never heard of a mainstream religion that does that or strictly requires tithing.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)talked about Bishops telling members what they had to contribute to the Prop 8 campaign. They weren't given a choice; their financials were looked at and then they were told what to give. If they refused to give, they'd be kicked out of the "church."
Fearless
(18,448 posts)NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)Fearless
(18,448 posts)The psychological tools employed by various religions to scare or impress people into following them. This video is a good example of that. The entire piece is meant to impress upon participants of the power of the church as well as the perceived authority it creates.
txdemsftw
(461 posts)That video is truly disturbing.
Fearless
(18,448 posts)Also..
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)It is accessible to all. No cash payments required.
"Reason flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings." Victor Stenger
ChaoticTrilby
(211 posts)TBF
(33,367 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)birthday party; or the Anaheim, Azusa And Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review And Timing Association.
tanyev
(44,009 posts)superpatriotman
(6,449 posts)It is like a conspiracy theorists wet dream!
Zion? A new U.S. government based on the Mormon faith, and revenge for the killing of the "Prophets"?
Jeesh.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...and we would've been spared the cult.
GoneOffShore
(17,541 posts)And then we would blessed with Mormonology.
Response to The Hitman (Original post)
Eddie Haskell This message was self-deleted by its author.
Chiyo-chichi
(3,693 posts)There was a article linked from DU this weekend about President Obama being considered the "wrong kind of Christian" by some because he doesn't talk about a conversion moment or being "born again."
The business with the secret knocks, secret handshakes, and having to present a new secret name to get into heaven -- that alone is anathema to evangelicals, who believe that you get into heaven only by repenting of your sins and accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
If the presidential race really has tightened, I suspect that it is as much due to reluctant evangelicals getting on board with Romney as any debate performance. It is significant that only last week the Billy Graham organization removed Mormonism from its list of cults and Graham Jr. endorsed Romney. They could have done that when he got the nomination. But evangelicals have been reluctant to get behind Romney. They are either going to vote for him or stay home. The Romney campaign needs them to vote.
If some of them see this and say home... good.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)Chiyo-chichi
(3,693 posts)The other side is financing a DVD filled with lies about the President that is being sent to people in swing states.
There's nothing here that isn't true. But there's plenty that would make evangelicals stay home.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Many of the comments on this thread are disgusting. I happen to be a Lutheran.
LisaL
(46,140 posts)And most people don't realize how different it is.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...When dragged out from behind the "veil of secrecy" and exposed to the light of day, Mormonism is exposed for what it really is. A cult, not a religion.
Trust me, anyone who considers themselves to be Evangelical in any way is going to be appalled by what they see in this video.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)but for a different reason the shit about seeking vengeance against the United States for the death of Joseph and Hyrum Smith
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Seriously, that's just gross.
AllyCat
(16,787 posts)the US government, I thought it was the strangest part. Now it is all the more scary that Mittens is so close.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...it's called "baptism for the dead", "vicarious baptism" or "proxy baptism".
I found LDS "baptismal" records for several relatives who I never knew were Mormons. When I checked dates, I realized they had died long before their LDS "baptismal" supposedly took place. I did additional research and discovered that the Mormons were actually taking death records from a variety of sources and using those to perform their "baptisms". The practice is still ongoing today as evidenced in the video.
When entering data for my relatives, I made sure to include a note about the bogus LDS "baptismals", and how those individuals were never Mormons.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)The former is weird; the latter is sick.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Some may argue including me that it is abusive
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)LisaL
(46,140 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...any intelligence about how the other side thinks and what they believe is absolutely necessary.
There is no place for idealism when you're fighting a foe who wants to reduce you to abject poverty and take away rights while they get richer by the second.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Or of your candidate.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)"Your candidate?" That what's it about? I surely hope that this video does not hurt "your candidate" at all. Did you out yourself here just now or did I lost my glasses again?
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)You will deny it, of course, but that is exactly what you are doing by claiming the speech Romney gave at a closed door fund-raiser, in which he said a number of damning things, ought not to have been made public.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I'm ATTACKING people who secretly take videos of people without their permission, and post them on the Internet without their permission.
That sword can cut both ways. It was sleazy and unethical when people used hidden cameras to make unauthorized videos of ACORN and Planned Parenthood. I spoke out against the people who did that, and now I'm speaking out against the people who made unauthorized videos of people in private worship services.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)You are defending Romney, by stating it was wrong to circulate a tape of a speech in which, behind closed doors, thinking only a select group of persons who gave him money would hear, he said what he actually thinks, and in the process damned himself by his own mouth. You are extending that defense here, by complaining that bizarre rituals of Mormonism, which he participates in and believes in, ought not to be made public, either. Your comments sum up to this: 'If it's bad for Romney, don't for heaven's sake show it to anybody!' That, Sir, is advocating for the Republican nominee for President in the current election, and stating this is just stating plain fact.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Members of those organizations were caught engaging in highly unethical behavior. In case you don't remember, ACORN discussed giving financial aid to an apparent underage prostitute. Planned Parenthood agreed to take a donation and earmark it for abortions for African-American women.
Did you approve of people making and publishing those videos?
I did not.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)There is a difference between simply recording what happens and disseminating it, and acting as a provocateur to produce an artificial artifact compounded of lies and misrepresentations through selective editing.
If someone had simply maintained a camera in an ACORN office for a space of hours, secretly, and then circulated the film, it would nkit trouble me; it also would probably have been of no value to people seeking to destroy the organization, either.
And do not imagine you will be allowed to wriggle off the point: you are defending the Republican nominee for President here, just as you defended calls for a Republican Congress to oppose President Obama, on the spurious ground of claiming President Obama has 'an extreme anti-gun agenda', just like every spokes-person for the N.R.A. and the Republican party does.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I have done neither. You are intentionally misrepresenting my positions.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)But do keep wriggling when pinned, by all means: it is entertaining, and it calls wider attention to your positions in support of Republican aims and candidates.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...about your character.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)You have in this thread defended Riomney, arguing that his damning before a select group of donors should not have been made public.
You have in this thread stated that making these damning comments by Romney public is equivalent to the fraudulent concoctions of O'Keefe and his right-wing ilk.
You have elsewhere ( in the 'Meta' forum ) defended a troll who called for a Republican Congress, even after he was banned by the Administrators for doing precisely that.
In the course of this defense, you have yourself claimed President Obama has an etreme anti-gun agenda, which is a leading NRA line , widely circulated to whip up votes against President Obama, and a staple of Republican takers and right-wing agitators.
these are not distortions or twistings of your words, they are fair statements of what your words mean.
If you do not like have what you say highlighted, say something else.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)ETA secretly recording a private conversation or other activity without permission and then publishing it without permission is a dirty trick no matter who does it or why.
I'm seeing a lot of rationalizations for bad behavior here. I am very disappointed in some people.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)These facts, for instance....
You have in this thread defended Romney, arguing that his damning comments before a select group of donors should not have been made public.
You have in this thread stated that making these damning comments by Romney public is equivalent to the fraudulent concoctions of O'Keefe and his right-wing ilk.
You have elsewhere ( in the 'Meta' forum ) defended a troll who called for a Republican Congress, even after he was banned by the Administrators for doing precisely that.
In the course of this defense, you have yourself claimed President Obama has an extreme anti-gun agenda, which is a leading NRA line , widely circulated to whip up votes against President Obama, and a staple of Republican takers and right-wing agitators.
These are not distortions or twistings of your words, they are fair statements of what your words mean.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and here I thought you were at least attempting to disguise your conservatism.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)were you silent on ACORN when it came up and only choose to get upset about the videotaping in this case, when it would harm a conservative?
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Hope all is well with you and yours!
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)We are well as can be expected. A little more creaky, of course....
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Think of this as payback for ACORN.
Sorry it makes you squeamish. But if we don't do some nasty things, we will get steamrolled.
My advice, show no mercy.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...being supported by the religious right and being elected to the highest office in the country.
Whoever made this video is to be commended for opening the eyes of hopefully millions of Americans.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Are they to be commended as well?
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)And the lie the truth.
The Temple videos show the facts.
I have nothing against investigative videos if they are FACTUAL and not biased stings.
Apples and oranges.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I don't care what the script says.
Try thinking about it this way: How would you feel if someone took a video of your private activities without your permission, and published it on YouTube?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but i don't see you posting against that.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Sometimes.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)hypocrisy is behaving badly --and that's YOU.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)And I continue to denounce it.
ETA I believe I said it was morally wrong although probably not illegal.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're trying to pretend you did so that this behavior doesn't come off as searching for a reason to defend conservatives--but there it is.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...it's the responsibility of every US citizen to expose that kind of crap whenever and wherever possible.
If the Mormons have nothing to hide, why do they conceal so much of what they believe?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)The video doesn't depict anyone trying to impose beliefs on anyone but themselves.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...for imposing their beliefs on the the US if they're successful.
Romney is as close as they've ever gotten to doing that.
Starry Messenger
(32,374 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)I see nothing wrong with recording rituals in a church-- particularly one as publicly active as the Mormon church.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)but you better believe it's out there, and you ought to be thankful to those who know how to look for it.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)No laws being broken in the video
Zorra
(27,670 posts)or denies those folks equal rights, you make yourself fair game for everyone who struggles for equality and justice.
You do shit like this to innocent people, you totally earn, and deserve, to get your fascist butt righteously exposed & kicked.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)to the Proposition 8 campaign in the film trailer.
Or maybe you don't believe that sponsoring, funding, and advocating for Proposition 8 was a form of political activity?
I think it is.
"It's clear now that Romney was a major financial donor to Prop. 8,"
Politicub
(12,262 posts)Candidate?
There's a chance Romney will be the president.
This rituals would not have been otherwise seen.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I don't believe I learned anything about him by watching it.
I felt uncomfortable watching it because it was an intrusion on peoples' private activities.
Politicub
(12,262 posts)I haven't seen any footage of temple rituals, and I'm glad I had the opportunity. I don't think this video will change any votes, but I still stand by the fact that people need to know everything they can about a candidate.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Never did hear it clearly after the first time....
highplainsdem
(51,478 posts)hadn't already read about Mormonism.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)They also brought up the Rev Wright with President Obama! So why should Mitten's Momonism get a pass?
A person's relgious upbringing may or may not influence the way they look at life and make decisions. The "May" possibility in that equation, however, is what makes a candidates religion fair game to study in an election.
What I want to know is does Mittens think his first job is to uphold the BOOK OF MORMON, or the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES?
It is the same question I would want to know of a Protestant or a Catholic, what is your first priority defending the BIBLE or the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES?
I would want to know the same thing of any other candidate of any other religious affiliation as well.
Can they keep church and state seperate? If they can't then they have no business running for President. So religion is fair game for political discussion. JMHO.
adamuu
(2,099 posts)His true motive for becoming president.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)thanks
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)This video shows what your leaders like Billy and Franklin Graham, are supporting for president. Yup good old Billy scrubbed all references to Mormonism as a cult off his website after praying with Bishop Romney. Guess old Billy believes in the White Horse prophesy, eh?
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)K&R
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)_ed_
(1,734 posts)Mormons never want to talk about the fact that Joey Smith was a convicted fraud in NY state before he invented his fake religion.
How about the fact that Mormonism was officially racist until 1978. Not 1878.... 1978.
Anyone who associates with this racist, homophobic religion should be ashamed of him or herself. And that includes Harry Reid.
highplainsdem
(51,478 posts)aletier_v
(1,773 posts)but are stuck supporting a candidate whose religion swore an oath against the US govt. The irony is rich.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)newspeak
(4,847 posts)they seem reasonable; however, i really don't know how far they'd go in obedience to the church. the closer you are to SLC, the more the church dictates your life. i lived in utah for over eight years and the church does play a strong role in utah governance.
what i have read (because hubby and I wanted to understand the church) is that smith's family may have been boondogglers. he was married to emma hale who had numerous miscarriages (maybe that's why he came up with the polygamy thing). even though they come off as victims, the church has a lot of blood on it's hands (of course, so does the catholic church), including my cousin's great grandfather who was murdered by mormons. in the early days, no one was to question church doctrine, by doing so, you could find yourself in a hole outside of SLC.
i hadn't heard of the shocking oath against the US; however, i have heard that gentiles may be shorn like sheep, lied to or whatever because they are not worthy and well, are gentiles. even members' of the church must be deemed worthy; of course, one wonders who has the illustrious decision to decide that.
i also didn't realize that smith tweaked the OT. i learned that recently while debating someone of the mormon persuasion. in smith's version, lot didn't offer his daughters to the multitude, didn't bother to find the other variations of the OT
i have no problem with their polytheistic tendencies; however, I do have a problem of a church swearing an oath against the government, wanting to change the government to their ideological perceptions and not respecting ALL citizens and their beliefs.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)MrScorpio
(73,693 posts)Other than I'm glad that I'm now a part of this epic thread
condoleeza
(814 posts)WTF is the matter with humans? If Romney gets elected, I'm going to have a real struggle trying to find a reason to live anymore.
AnotherDreamWeaver
(2,869 posts)I could move to cursor to places that had loaded and see a still picture. I went to reddit to watch, but found the "Blue screen, Reddit is down, Sorry" note. Has the mormon church shut them off???
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Doesn't matter of it's whacking your head on a wall, sacrificing a squash, repeatedly dunking children, or pretending crackers are made of meat, it's all weird shit.
But most religions at least have the taste, the sense of style, to not use a fucking tape deck for their wacky hijinks. That's just tacky.
FloridaJudy
(9,465 posts)By how childish this all seems? Secret names! Magic veils (that look like the plastic sheeting they use around construction sites)! Holy hidden rooms! Unspeakable oaths!
It's something a not-overly-bright middle schooler would come up with for his Sekrit Club for Boys if he were given a lot of money and power. That supposed adults take this shit seriously is frightening.
I'd love to run away from home to become the school nurse at Hogwarts, but that's a more evolved fantasy than this. And I have more sense than to dedicate the rest of my life - not to mention 10% of my money - to that.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)about the Mormons.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)"Gee, that sounds kind of..." Dum dum dum dum dum!
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Description: Mail away kit consisting of a certificate, membership card, badges, transfers, special message, decoder wheel, how to make swords & hats, and a poster of "Our Hero".
jsr
(7,712 posts)DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I think I'll skip lunch and have a few fingers...
of Bourbon.
catbyte
(35,343 posts)waddirum
(987 posts)Isn't there a prohibition against graven images, specifically those involving calves.
joy2u2
(6 posts)So that's where Mutt & Ann get the King & Queen stance.. it's mentioned in their holy (wholly) video.. very scary stuff. My bigger concern is that this huge group of better-than-thous will have their hands in Romney's pockets if he accidentally got elected into the White House. Between the Mormons and the gang(sters) from Vegas.. there is no telling what they will force Muttons to do.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)I vote for "Money Boo Boo".
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
DFW
(55,949 posts)This makes "The Vatican Rag" seem like a boring documentary.
Rambis
(7,774 posts)obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Bigleaf
(2,050 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)
I hate, let me repeat that, HATE people coming to my door peddling religion. Believe it or not, in order to have these Mormons walk right by your home, you have to write a letter to the bishop. You telling them verbally not to come back is not enough. No, they put the onus on you to write a letter. Un-fucking-believable.
lindysalsagal
(21,954 posts)out of me so I can sleep tonight.
The creepy hand sticking through the veil. Are ya kidding me? My friends and I thought up strange stuff like this when we were 6 or 7, and it was forgotten the next day.
What the hell????
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,513 posts)We should be apologizing to France and every other nation who has to suffer our made in the USA "Christian" religion. Jesus has nothing remotely to do with this stuff. They used him as a front for wackiness and continue to foist it on the world.
Skittles
(157,065 posts)honestly, that gal is insufferable
classykaren
(769 posts)I can't believe it they actually take a oath for the downfall of the United States Of America?????? To avenge the death of Smith? He can not be President of the United States then in any way. This need to go viral. I bet Billy Graham never saw this OMG
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Tony Orlando & Dawn KNOCK THREE TIMES
I'm hoping people knock twice on the pipes:/
alessiana
(5 posts)N/T
The Old Creak
(238 posts)Where, exactly is Kolob, other than in the mind of these racist cultists?
IDoMath
(404 posts)BUt then, we only started actually identifying planets in the last decade or so, so we might have the wrong names.
obamanut2012
(27,424 posts)And, I'm a bit gobsmacked that your post appears to be serious.
GoneOffShore
(17,541 posts)Politicub
(12,262 posts)Amazing video. I've never seen anything like it.
The American people have a right to know what goes on with the GOP candidate being a Mormon.
Every religion has its peculiarities - but this takes the cake.
I wonder if the baptists will incorporate these practices now?
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)elite LDS members are know about these secret rites which means Rmoney and princess Ann engage in these creepy secret rituals.
This needs to go viral.
IDoMath
(404 posts)So they go through some rituals, big deal. It's no worse than rituals I've seen at Scottish Rite temples, wiccan coven rituals, druidic rituals, etc. Gardnerians still take vows of secrecy. So do masons, fraternities, sororities and probably Elks, Moose and Possum Lodge.
So they like a little drama and ritual. To see people on hear crying "oh scary scary" is ever bit as bad as watching freeper ilk tell lies about muslims and jews.
Grow up.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)IDoMath
(404 posts)wtmusic
(39,166 posts)To believe in an amorphous creator is one thing.
People who get bedside visits from angels belong in the looney bin.
IDoMath
(404 posts)It is possible in the amazingly creative and imaginative human mind to be able to process complex rational thought alongside personal delusion.
Whether or not that personal delusion disqualifies a person from service has to be evaluated on an individual basis.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...trolling.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Right down to the punishments
IDoMath
(404 posts)..those elements go back to ancient Egypt and before. They got "formalized" by various real and mythical characters (Hermes Trismegistus, eg.). Then they were forgotten, rediscovered, revived, remixed and recycled. You can find hermetic symbols in catholic churches and freemasonry, khaballa in wicca, etc. etc.
People like a little mystery in their lives. Can you blame them?
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)IDoMath
(404 posts)So would jews & muslims. And then they'd all turn around and accuse each other of heresy.
If we replaced the comments here with same comments directed at jews, muslims, bhuddists, wiccans, hindus, sikhs etc, there would be mass outrage. But it seems to me that years of repressed bigotry masquerading as political correctness have found an "acceptable" outlet.
I don't care what christians think. That's their business.
If you think mormon beliefs are heresy, that's your choice. But don't denigrate their beliefs as just because they are different than your own.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)IDoMath
(404 posts)May I take your argument to mean that I can denigrate christianity if I find it contemptible?
I am not going to do that because I can not prove that christianity is wrong any more than it can be proven right. It is a matter of FAITH. It doesn't need to be proven. When it manifests in public policy, I will deal with it as a matter of public policy but when it is merely the faith of an individual I will leave it alone. "By their fruits ye shall know them" I believe is how the quote goes.
Evil comes in many forms. So does righteousness. I'm not really fit to judge another person's faith. No one is.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)bigoted against people not ideas or beliefs. Furthermore the definition of denigrate is to "unfairly criticize". There is nothing unfair about criticizing beliefs and practices that are contemptible.
IDoMath
(404 posts)Since all the Abrahamic religions are delusional and based on allowing a few to oppress many.
I wonder how long it will take this post to be blocked because the target is christianity instead of mormonism.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Thanks so much for your concern!.
"To see people on hear crying "oh scary scary" is ever bit as bad as watching freeper ilk tell lies about muslims and jews."
That doesn't add up. DoTheMath! There's a big difference - we're not telling lies.
"If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
Adlai Stevenson
krawhitham
(4,779 posts)gulliver
(13,303 posts)Utah_liberal
(101 posts)He wants to advertise this video. If we could get more evangelicals and Catholics to see this, it could make a difference!
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)Just a different uniform
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)I have read some scary stories about how ex members are treated after they leave the Mormon church.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Virtually all of the big religions have this problem - Christians bashing non-Christians, Muslims bashing non-Muslims, but Mormonism takes disrespect of non-members to an unusually high level.
Look at them. Look at the video.
Baptism of the dead. Translation "Oh, the poor dead guy's not a Mormon? We'd better wave a dead chicken and make him a Mormon!"
The secret handshakes. Translation: "Are you one of us? Show the secret handshake! You'd better be one of us, otherwise, you're one of Them. If you're not with us, you're against us!"
Also look at the frantic door-to-door proselytization, the zillions of silly little rules Mormons are expected to follow, the culture of ostracizing people who aren't conforming.
The entire Mormon religion has at its core the assertion that you MUST be Mormon, otherwise, you're a bad person, and to be treated as an enemy. Don't get me started about what they think about atheists like me.
Like I said, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and virtually every other religion in the world has done this (especially certain subgroups in these religions - Wahhabi Muslims and Dominionist Christians, for example, go nuts on disrespecting people outside of their flavor of religion). But Mormonism keeps this concept at its core, and demands its followers disrespect other religions.
That's why Mormonism disturbs me.