I'm not pro-abortion.

[kpete]

I’m pro-Barbara who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.

I’m pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.

I’m pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.

I’m pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn’t mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.

I’m pro-Melissa who’s working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her. (Maybe one of those is a minimum wage job at Hobby Lobby, and she can’t afford birth control because her employer went to the Supreme Court to make sure her insurance plan doesn’t cover it.)

I’m pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.

I’m pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.

I’m pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster’s child.

I’m pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.

I’m pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.

I’m pro-Courtney who just found out she’s already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.

You can argue and say that I’m pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:

I’m pro-life.

Their lives.

Women’s lives.

You don’t get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.

It’s not about which stories you don’t agree with. It’s about fighting for the women in the stories that you do agree with and the CHOICE that was made.

Women’s rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation - or how big their bank account is. Because, let’s face it, rich people’s daughters (yes, even the ones who voted for this bill) will always be able to find safe abortions. They did before Roe v Wade. Most poor women will still get abortions too, whether from centuries old, unsafe home methods or from opportunistic untrained, unsafe people. Roe v. Wade didn’t create abortion. It ended poor, desperate women dying from them.


Copied and pasted.
https://liberalsarecool.com/post/661545596039135232/im-not-pro-abortion-im-pro-barbara-who-found

[Scrivener7]

1. I am pro-abortion. Parsing only caters to republiQan vilification of the

procedure and the women who get it. I'm done doing that.

I am pro-abortion.

[ancianita]

13. I am pro-abortion forever.

[CrispyQ]

35. +1 -- Perfectly stated! -nt

[AZ8theist]

57. I'm pro abortion as well..

There's too many humans fucking up this planet.

[karynnj]

59. What does pro abortion even mean?

It is just my opinion, but
saying you are pro abortion may require you define what it means. Obviously, it is never someone ever hoped to have.

You could say you want that choice to be available for woman who conclude that their pregnancy - for whatever reason - is better terminated than allowed to continue. As to that reason, it should be anything that makes sense to the woman in question and private.
If this is what you mean, I agree completely with you.

Personally, although you might not, I would add that I do think the guidelines within Roe vs Wade should apply as they do balance the woman's rights with some rights as the fetus becomes viable for the child. It is sad that the abortion foes do not see that RvW already did balance the rights.

[Scrivener7]

60. It means I am for abortion. I am not against abortion. It's really not difficult.

[soldierant]

106. What it sounds like, though, even to me

is that you are in favor of ending every pregnancy with abortion. Or at least as many pregnancies as possible.

It sounds like China's infamous "one-child" policy.

And I doubt that that is what you have in mind.

Anyway, that is why I don't say I am pro-abortion.

[Scrivener7]

107. Just absolutely ridiculous.

[Mariana]

124. No, that's not what it means.

You never hear anyone insist they should not be called "pro-whatever" about any other issue. Can you just imagine anyone saying, "Don't say I'm pro-same sex marriage. That implies I think every marriage should be a same sex marriage. I'm pro-choice about same sex marriage."

No, this bullshit only happens when talking about abortion.

[ChubbyStar]

128. If it sounds like that to you you might want to see an ENT

There might be something wrong with your hearing. Good luck! Have a nice day.

[Lunabell]

92. I am too.

It's a medical, healthcare decision. A fetus becomes a human life when the pregnant person says it does.

[Lithos]

98. I support body autonomy

This means I am for leaving the decision and action chosen up to the woman and her doctor.

[Scrivener7]

99. That means you are pro-abortion. Why be squeamish about saying it?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15827817

[Lithos]

102. It sounds like a mono-response

A one size fits all answer to a complicated thing. This is all a part of a very regressive set of tactics being used to limit and control a woman's body.

So, yes, I do support a woman's right to seek out an abortion *IF* she so chooses. I also support a woman's right to have a baby if she so chooses. Why is this distinction important? Because not only back in the day was it hard for a woman to seek an abortion, there were occasions where a woman was also forced into an abortion.

In addition, I also support working to remove some of the reasons why a woman might be contemplating to make such a decision. Such as better (free) child-care, better access and free access to contraception, better sex education, free college/trade education, wage equality, etc.

So, to just keep it at "Pro-abortion" misses the mark, IMHO.

L-

[Scrivener7]

105. Yep. Mono. All the way. Pro-abortion. Because it isn't complicated at all.

The obvious fact that I am against forced abortions doesn't change that at all. When I say I am pro-knee replacements, I never have to explain that I don't want people to be forced against their will to have knee replacements. People just get it. But we have to manufacture all kinds of complications and unnecessary explanations when we say we are pro-abortion.

My pro-knee replacement stance obviously doesn't mean I don't support the use of NSAIDS and physical therapy if they are what is needed. Somehow people are routinely able to discern that. I don't need to explain it every time I say I am pro-knee replacement. When I say I am pro-abortion, most people will not assume that means I don't want women to have access to contraception and childcare and sex education. Because that would be a pretty obviously silly assumption. We really don't have to explain that.

One size DOES fit all. We only manufacture these complications because for some reason we have come to believe we have to justify our support for abortion. We really should stop justifying it.

It is not complicated at all. If you think a woman should be able to have an abortion or a knee replacement, you are pro-abortion and pro-knee replacement.

[myccrider]

110. +1000

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. I'm pro abortion and I don't give a shit why a person gets one. In addition, the names and stories

that are centered in this meme erase a lot of people who get abortions (Black people! People of color! People who aren't women!), and makes certain kinds abortion more "justified" or "worthy" -- which is garbage.

[Mariana]

18. Thank you.

This screed in the OP reinforces the idea that women should be able to have an abortion, but abortion is a bad thing to do, and women who make that choice should feel terrible about it

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. I disagree, somewhat.

To me, the meme is saying that abortion is indeed terrible and something to be avoided, but there are definitely specific circumstances that make abortion acceptable and okay. And if your abortion doesn't come with a sob story behind it, then your abortion is definitely one of the unacceptable ones.

[Mariana]

27. People tend to forget that EVERY pregnancy is potentially dangerous

regardless of how that pregnancy came to be.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. Yep. And abortion is actually safer than pregnancy.

[calimary]

45. There is THIS, TOO!

Said she who had not one but TWO difficult pregnancies. Both times the edema got so extreme there were three ongoing concerns about my LIFE: from my husband, my doctor, AND myself. Each pregnancy started off normally enough. But toward the end, things got VERY dicey. Especially the second one. Labor had to be induced to get both the baby and me out of danger.

Pregnancy is hard and dangerous. Potentially life-threatening. I would up thinking: “no wonder women got stuck with the hard part.”

[ShazzieB]

36. Yes.

This piece was obviously written in response to the trope forced birthers like to use, that women who get abortions are all a bunch of selfish, hedonistic, irresponsible sluts who just want to have all of the sex with none of the consequences (AS IF an unwanted pregancy, carried to term or not, doesn't count as a consequence. ) I like the way this points up the fact that there are many, many different reasons and scenarios that lead to someone deciding to get an abortion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. But I'm saying that it IS all sob stories, and requiring a sob story to make an abortion acceptable

is as bad as implying that only sluts and weirdos get abortions.

[Rebl2]

46. I agree

with you.

[calimary]

43. There is that. Definitely.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

20. People who aren't women get abortions?

Please explain that.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. Trans men, people in the process of transitioning, people who don't consider themselves women for

whatever reason, and so on.

[Phoenix61]

3. I saw this on Facebook and passed it along.

I like the pro-women’s lives part the best.

[DFW]

4. I am pro-choice, and not just anyone's choice.

I am for the choice being the sole domain of the woman faced with it. I am not for that choice being made by a present or former boyfriend or husband. I am not for that choice to be in the hand of some “religious” counsellor, and I am adamantly against that choice being made by grandstanding legislators who somehow think they know better than anyone else what a girl or woman should be allowed to decide for herself on the subject of abortion.

[JohnSJ]

5. I am pro-choice. It is a personal decision for a woman, and no one else's business

[ananda]

6. 100% Pro Choice here and no one else's business.

...

[randr]

7. No one is pro abortion

What we should all be is supportive of making the world a better place to bring children into.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. You must have missed my post up above. I am definitely pro-abortion.

It's a great procedure for someone who is pregnant and doesn't want to be anymore.

[Scrivener7]

10. I am pro-abortion. Enough with the parsing. Abortion is a necessary medical procedure.

I am pro-abortion like I am pro-wisdom tooth extraction or pro-hip replacement.

[ancianita]

16. I am pro-abortion.

[Mariana]

17. Speak for yourself, please.

I don't think a woman who's had an abortion has done A Bad Thing.

[Polybius]

19. Plenty are in here

I'm not one of them though.

[ChubbyStar]

89. Should we bake you a cake?

Or throw a parade?

[Polybius]

109. Was I replying to you?

I was simply telling the other poster that plenty are. I only mentioned that I wasn't just so he/she knows that I'm not, since my reply's headline could have made the poster incorrectly think that I was.

Not that I owe you an explanation...

[ChubbyStar]

121. Dude do you understand how message boards work?

Good luck in 2021! Have a nice day.

[Polybius]

122. Of course

Do you understand me saying "I'm not one of them" wasn't an assault on your positions?

[ChubbyStar]

126. Your header was where I had the issue not your position

Plenty are in here. That is how you started, you didn't speak from the I you just made a rather condescending remark about other people. Then you gratuitously added that you were not one of them, you know the "plenty." Rhetorical game playing and it is very off putting. Don't bother responding, I will not see it. Goodbye.

[Polybius]

147. I didn't mean anything insulting by it

The poster said no one is pro-abortion, I just wanted to point out to him/her that that was not the case. Perhaps if I said "That's not true, many are" that would have sounded better? I just don't see how saying "plenty" and "I'm not one of them" is insulting. You're the only one who got offended, so it might just be you.

[Farmer-Rick]

32. I am pro abortion

A good friend got accidentally pregnant at 18 and she made the decision to go to Maryland, they were one of the first states to offer legal abortions. She was afraid, so I drove her.

I was not the father. We were just friends. She is older and she sees me as her little brother. We were childhood friends. The father had disappeared when she told him she was pregnant.

I drove her home again and kept her secret for years and years.

I saw her before the pandemic. She was bragging about her 3 grandchildren. Her 2 children went on to become a lawyer and a film maker. Her husband is having some medical issues but he is older and it is to be expected. But he has great medical care.

We talked and she told me the best decision she ever made was to have that abortion. She said I could tell anyone I wanted to about her abortion. She was proud she had done it and she would do it again given the circumstances.

She said she never would put one of her babies up for adoption if she had carried it to term. And of course then she would have kept the baby. Then she never would have finished college, gotten her masters and been a successful school principal. She never would have met her husband, a General. She never would have had her babies or a pension to see her through her retirement years. Her life was happy and successful all because of that decision to have an abortion.

So yeah, I'm Pro-Abortion.

[Hekate]

64. Randr, I used to hem & haw & be apologetic & try to understand anti-choicers. I emphatically quit. ...

Somewhere in the last 15 or so years I quit.

Individuals are entitled to their personal opinions, their personal sensitivities, their personal religion. I am a very tolerant and accepting person that way. I don’t despise them. I have religious feelings of my own, but I don’t try to impose it on others.

What they are not entitled to do is make laws that absodamnlutely guarantee that women will be impoverished by having kids they can’t afford, be sterilized from infections, or die.

The lawmakers — those bastards I now hate with the heat of a thousand suns. None of them gives a flying fck about either women or children. What they do shows that, no matter what they say.

I am turning 74 this month. I am pro-abortion. It’s been a long journey to get here, but yes, I am most certainly pro-abortion.

If it makes you feel any better, you can consider it as part of the continuity of women’s medical care — just as removal of a prostate gland is part of the continuity of men’s medical care. Not every man will ever need his prostate removed, but he better pray that a surgeon who knows what they’re doing is around if he ever does. Not every woman will ever need an abortion, but she better pray it is legal where she lives if she ever does, and that there is someone who knows what they are doing to help her.

[Butterflylady]

9. I am a pro-woman person.

Personally I bore 5 children and miscarried 1. I never had an abortion, nor would've had one, but that was MY decision. I would never ever want that decision to be made for me by anyone especially by the government or the supreme freaking court.

I am and will always be pro-woman.

[mountain grammy]

11. I've always been pro minding one's own business.

[Scrivener7]

14. I'm stealing this.

[Luciferous]

38. I love that!

[The Jungle 1]

77. That is the issue in a nut shell

The right refuses vaccine cards because of privacy yet they want to dictate woman's healthcare.

[stage left]

97. I'm with you

Pro-minding my own business all the way.

[fwvinson]

12. The only people I know that have had abortions are Republicans. Amazing, huh.

[Scrivener7]

15. I have been a member of many cohorts in my life. The one that availed itself of the most

abortions by a very large margin was my Catholic college friends.

[ShazzieB]

51. Are you absolutely sure of that?

There are lots of women who have had an abortion but don't talk about it much, if at all. For some, it's because of the stigma and a fear of being judged. For others, it's a thing that happened years or even decades ago, and it just doesn't come up unless they make a point of bringing it up. For many, like me, it's all of the above.

I doubt any of us knows how many women in our sphere of acquaintances have had an abortion.

[Martin Eden]

22. I am Pro- the OP

Nails why the "Pro-Life" movement is morally abhorrent.

[secondwind]

24. Frankly, just talking about this makes me ill.... Iwill be 75 soon, and it just brings back all the

horrible memories of women who died unnecessarily, because there was no "choice" back then. I remember a girl in my junior high who died from a botched abortion. Junior high!!!!!

Young teens, mothers at home who could not afford another mouth to feed, etc. I just cannot BELIEVE we are back
to "square one" on this, a very PRIVATE AND PERSONAL MATTER..

[The Jungle 1]

25. I want to reduce abortion.

I do not understand why the right will not help us reduce abortion with things that would work.
Free birth control radically reduces abortion.
Living wage
Healthcare
Housing
Education
All these things will reduce abortion

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Why do you want to reduce abortion?

[The Jungle 1]

49. All medical procedures have risk.

So for the same reason that I would like to reduce cancer, heart failure, diabetes I would like to reduce any medical procedure that carries risk. I am not passing judgement on anyone. Judgement is not my place.

Also it is a compromise position. The right wants to end all abortion. Our society and government is based on compromise. We can meet in the middle and solve other problems which would help our society. The abortion issue is dividing this nation and I would like to find a middle ground.

What I know, is that passing law will not work. It did not work in the past and it will not work now. I am old enough to remember pre Roe.
My example is Brazil. Brazil is a 90 some percent Catholic nation. Abortion is illegal in Brazil. Abortion is rampant in Brazil.
"Every year an estimated 1.4 million Brazilian girls and women take the law into their hands, and often put their health at risk, to terminate their pregnancies. This gives Brazil an abortion rate much higher than that of the United States, even though one country allows the procedure and the other all but bans it." Baltimore Sun

The vast majority of abortions are the result of unintended pregnancies. I know captain obvious right! However:
"A new study by investigators at Washington University reports that providing birth control to women at no cost substantially reduces unplanned pregnancies and cuts abortion rates by a range of 62 to 78 percent compared to the national rate." Washington University
We can reduce abortion and we can reduce medical procedure risk and we can bridge this nation wide divide.

Why won't the right help us? The only path you can take with that question are paths that lead you to very negative descriptions of the right. Would the right even use the free birth control? They won't get a vaccine.

[Hekate]

58. Carrying a baby to term & delivering is actually far more medically dangerous than a legal abortion

Clean, legal, early abortions are practically risk free.

One more thing: Texas has been working on this project for years and years. They closed down almost all the women’s clinics — clinics that did far more than provide abortions, especially the ones patterned after Planned Parenthood. No more cancer screenings, no more teaching how your body works, no more contraception, no more prenatal care.

As a result, by now Texas can boast maternal mortality rates on par with third world nations. Yee-haw. Don’t it make them white men proud.

[The Jungle 1]

63. Agree with all you posted

I am looking for middle ground to solve issues ripping this country apart. The abortion laws in texass will not work.

One thing for sure women and men need to let texass know they despise this law. This is right out of the trump play book and these fascist think it will work. Even though trump was a one term wonder.

[Hekate]

67. The ONLY people who are looking for middle ground are those on our side. To GOP politicians...

… and “pro-lifers” THERE CAN BE NO MIDDLE GROUND, because THEY WILL ACCEPT NONE.

I believe the moment where “pro-lifers” completely lost me was when I realized they were redefining the most reliable contraceptives as being abortifacients.

It wasn’t enough for them to lie to teenagers about how condoms don’t work against either STDs or pregnancy, they had to start lying to everyone about The Pill and IUDs and such. I used The Pill for 5 years and after I had my 2 kids I used an IUD for another 4 years. Who knew I was “aborting a baby” every month?

Oh, and never ever forget the “conscience” clauses emanating from the US Congress: any pharmacist can refuse to fill your prescription for contraceptives or Plan B, any hospital can withhold information about Plan B from rape victims, any medical provider — well, because God.

As I said in my other post: I wasted years of my life trying to compassionately understand their point of view. Then I realized: there is no middle ground. They don’t believe in middle ground. They’d rather see me or any other woman DEAD.

[Scrivener7]

72. This. There is no middle ground. And we need to stop pretending there is. Any "middle ground"

means that THEY get to make SOME KIND OF decision about MY body.

Not going to happen. And I read above where you said you came around to being "pro abortion." This is my feeling exactly. I'm tired of trying to make MY agency over MY body palatable to those who find the concept unpalatable.

[The Jungle 1]

76. I did not say I came around to being pro abortion.

Please read MY posts on this subject.
I have two posts on the subject they are well explained and sourced.

[Scrivener7]

80. I did not say you did. I was responding to another poster. Butt out.

This is not all about you and your opinion.

[The Jungle 1]

114. So sorry I read the flow chart wrong

I hope you will be able to forgive my huge transgression.

[Scrivener7]

120. Gosh. How sincere you sound.

[The Jungle 1]

123. Well maybe you should "butt out"

The source for the "butt out" quote is Scrivener7.

[Scrivener7]

127. That doesn't even make sense. Have a lovely day.

[ChubbyStar]

129. Boom, I am laughing so hard my dog woke up! Thank you

I will just to you Scrivener7, this exchange was interesting.

[Scrivener7]

130. .

[The Jungle 1]

140. You told me to butt out I told you to butt out.

I just used some humor. How can that not make sense?

Forum rules
Do not personally attack, insult, flame, threaten, bully, harass, stalk, negatively call-out, ascribe ugly ulterior motives to, or make baseless claims about any member of this community. Do not post in a manner that is hostile, abusive, or aggressive toward any member of this community.

[The Jungle 1]

74. I said in my post that I do not understand why the right refuses to find the middle.

The right also wants to outlaw birth control.
I just want it known the middle is still there and is a legit solution.

[ChubbyStar]

132. That is not all of what you said but none of what you said merits repeating

Source me on that.

[The Jungle 1]

135. Yo I thought personal attacks were against the rules of this forum.

I guess you are special.
Maybe you should examine why you are so mad about an opinion that is not yours.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

136. You completely misunderstand the nature of personal attacks.

The poster did not like what was SAID.

Attacking what was SAID is not a personal attack.

"none of it merits repeating" is NOT a personal attack. It is an attack on what was written. On words and ideas.

Words and ideas are NOT the person.



However, YOU made a personal attack on the PERSON:

I guess you are special.

[The Jungle 1]

137. Alright then by your definition I say:

His post referring to my post is ------ and --------. That would not be an attack? Use any adjectives you want don't much matter.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

145. The post is not the person. The map is not the territory. . . . nt

[The Jungle 1]

139. The rule states:

Do not personally attack, insult, flame, threaten, bully, harass, stalk, negatively call-out, ascribe ugly ulterior motives to, or make baseless claims about any member of this community. Do not post in a manner that is hostile, abusive, or aggressive toward any member of this community.

There is a bit more involved than just personal attacks. If you look through this entire string you will see that chubby has been attacking me and providing no real content. But yes I did slip over the edge a bit saying he was special.

[Scrivener7]

71. Did you have a particularly large abortion, and that made you want to "reduce" them?

Or do you think fewer women should have had them? Perhaps some women had them that you think should not have made that decision?

You would have preferred they used another alternative?

And you think your preference is germane to the issue?

Mountain grammy said it best in this thread: we all just need to mind our own business.

[The Jungle 1]

75. I find no humor in this subject.

My points are well explained and sourced.
Control your anger and read.
If you don't agree with me so what we are on the same side of the issue.

[Scrivener7]

79. Gracious. I seem to have unwittingly hit a nerve. I have no anger toward you.

Have a lovely day.

[LanternWaste]

81. You keep saying 'sourced.' I don't think that means what you think it means.

Control your vocabulary and read more... (six of one, half a dozen of the other-- and each as meritless and petulant as the other)

[Scrivener7]

85. Some are sourced from within.

[The Jungle 1]

144. That doesn't even make sense. Have a lovely day.

[The Jungle 1]

113. I provided the source for the quotes I used to support my position.

I believe that is what the word sourced means.

sourced; sourcing. Definition of source (Entry 2 of 3) transitive verb. 1 : to specify the source of (something, such as quoted material) 2 : to obtain from a source metals sourced from abroad.
The SOURCE for this definition is Merriam-Webster and was presented by Google Search. I have sourced my definition that supports my argument that I know what sourced means.

[ChubbyStar]

131. Cue the Princess Bride

[The Jungle 1]

138. rules

Do not personally attack, insult, flame, threaten, bully, harass, stalk, negatively call-out, ascribe ugly ulterior motives to, or make baseless claims about any member of this community. Do not post in a manner that is hostile, abusive, or aggressive toward any member of this community.

[Elessar Zappa]

28. I'm pro abortion for anyone who wants one.

Their reason is none of my business.

[Aussie105]

112. Pro choice means

a safe abortion is available if appropriate reasons exist.

Those reasons are none of my damn business, nor should anyone else set those or even express an opinion on them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

117. "Appropriate"?

[Scrivener7]

143. So why use the qualifier? Why does everyone feel the need to qualify it?

If you specify that an "appropriate" reason must exist, you are implying that a woman should not get one if her reasons are not appropriate.

From your last sentence, you make it clear that you actually don't mean to say that at all.

So why use the qualifier?

[Tommymac]

30. It's not about abortion per se...it's about Men controlling Women.

Keep them barefoot and pregnant is the philosophy used by these scared nasty mean old White Men who are losing their majority thus their patriarchy and control over others. These are the same ugly fucked up degenerate men who brought us slavery, everlasting War, and the minimum wage economy for the same reasons.

I'm for people controlling their own destiny's and bodies. Whether it is an unwanted pregnancy, or a person who is born into the wrong physical gender and uses drugs and/or medical procedures to enjoy being their real self, it is an individual choice that no government or religion has the right to interfere with.

And I'll defend that right with my own life if need be.

Fuck Texas legislatures, fuck the barbaric Abstinence culture, fuck men and women who want to control other people's lives.

Fuck Conservatives.

[kpete]

31. Tommymac

You are EXACTLY right!!!

[The Jungle 1]

118. I think you are correct.

Controlling women and minorities and subjugating them is the GOP game plan. They are playing these groups to keep white Europeans in control of our country. Trump was a clear example of this.
Black men got the right to vote in 1868. (Sort of)
Women did not get the vote until 1920. 52 years later. The US has a long history of subjugating women.
America needs to hear loud protest over this latest subjugation of women.

[Roy Rolling]

33. Abortion is Birth Control?

That is the distinction being advocated by some here.

I do not want abortion as a first choice of birth control.

If a man and a woman both of them are irresponsible to the consequences of unprotected sex, clinical abortion is a lazy alternative. Use the morning-after pill, maybe, or something 21st century medical science offers.

Civilized society is about where the lines are drawn—not about whether there should be lines to begin with. Nuance is essential. Don’t rely on the government to tell a woman she can’t get an abortion nor rely on the government to tell a woman she can get an abortion.

It isn’t society’s decision, it’s a woman’s choice.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. Imagine thinking getting an abortion is lazy.

[stopdiggin]

52. imagine thinking sex is 'irresponsible'

there should of course be permits - and taxes and fees ..

[Roy Rolling]

66. Having children you don't want is irresponsible

It’s a burden on the parents and society. Saying sex is irresponsible is the type of straw man argument that the other side uses to maintain an endless fight.

End of conversation, if you think it’s responsible sex for two people unprepared or unwilling to accept an 18-year responsibility, then we disagree.

I think unwanted children are the greatest burden a society faces in so many ways. So many problems can be traced to that one event.

[SergeStorms]

83. "An 18 year responsibility".

Maybe legally, but anyone who's ever had children can attest to the fact that they're permanently chained to your wallet.

But hey, I wouldn't change that responsibility one little bit, even if I could.

[stopdiggin]

95. you realize how close you're tip toeing

along the edge of 'purpose of sex is procreation' don't you?

" - think it’s responsible sex for two people unprepared or unwilling to accept an 18-year responsibility .." -

In fact - that's exactly what I think. (along with a lot of other homo sapiens familiar with 21st century developments) Perhaps about the only thing that you and I might possibly agree on - is that unwanted children are a tragedy on multiple fronts.
----- -----

[Scrivener7]

100. Seems to me like a headlong crash.

[Scrivener7]

61. Then by all means, don't use abortion as your first choice in birth control. As far as what anyone

else decides, though, mind your own damn business.

How's that for nuance?

[AllaN01Bear]

34. im sick of the catholic church. and others pokeing into our lives and

shoving their belief system on us its nobodys buisness except the drs and patients . they and the rs have been shoving this down our throats for 50 years.( im not sure on the time line) what does this do to fix the country and ballance budges . nothing.

[jaxexpat]

37. I'm anti men having an opinion about abortion at all!

It's about a women's right to choose and men, in any non-science capacity, have NO place in the discussion.

Babies are not "gifts" women give to please others. That's just sick.

Anyone who's not the pregnant woman, back off and support which ever decision the woman makes(or not, it doesn't matter).

[dchill]

50. You are exactly right.

[SergeStorms]

84. Absolutely.

I'm not pro-abortion, but I'm 100% behind it being the woman's decision and not the man's. Any man's, and certainly not some crusty old desiccated congressman.

[The Jungle 1]

115. Yo there are a lot of men who support you and can help.

You don't want us????

[jaxexpat]

116. You'd need to ask that of one of the fairer sex.

My opinion is irrelevant, being male.

[The Jungle 1]

142. Thin ice sir.

The phrase "the fairer sex" refers to looks. Anything more will get us into trouble. Note that some women think this phrase is offensive.
Quora

[jaxexpat]

146. Then Shakespeare would get banned?

Of course you're right. In a world wherein the common cruelty of mass homelessness is acceptable I can see how that would be unbearably offensive. ++

[The Jungle 1]

148. I know I get it and I was just picking at ya a bit.

Never sure what is the right thing to say.

Funny story I play pool with a bunch of young folks. I guess I am the old guy mascott.
The Aerosmith song Sweet Emotion was playing. I asked if any of them knew what the lyric "The rabbit done died" meant.
Not a one knew.
I knew what it meant when I was young.

[jaxexpat]

149. Perhaps we have evolved beyond the rabbit's dying for our sins.

It's maybe the way of things that youth would carry a part of us forward while we remain unsure if our passing will invoke even an idle recollection. No offense taken. All's in good humor. Even on Wednesdays.

[obamanut2012]

39. You are pro abortion or not

Qualifying your stance this way only says some women are more worthy of abortions than others.

Proudly pro abortion.

[Politicub]

40. This person must love reality TV sob stories. No woman needs to have a reason

that’s acceptable to someone else to terminate a pregnancy.

[LaMouffette]

44. I'm pro-God. I think He or She takes care of the spirits of all unborn babies, whether miscarried or

stillborn or aborted. They go back to Him or Her in the spirit world, and they are perfectly fine.

Kind of a weird viewpoint, I know.

And this doesn't mean I'm pro-abortion. I'm pro-contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies. But if an unwanted or unviable pregnancy occurs, especially if the woman or girl was raped or a victim of incest or her life is in danger or if the baby will be severely disabled or will be a stillbirth, then I think it's the height of cruelty to deny her an abortion.

[Scrivener7]

62. That means you're pro abortion. Why does it need all this parsing?

With respect to arthritic knees, do you go through a long explanation about how you are not pro-knee replacement. You are pro-preventive exercise and physical therapy. But if that doesn't work, especially if the person is really in pain and can't get around any more, and the knee is really mangled up, then it would be the height of cruelty to deny that person the knee replacement.

Do you say that?

If not, why the difference?

Of course no one wants people to be getting knee replacements willy nilly when they don't need them. But somehow we don't see the need to explain that every time we talk about knee replacements. We just assume people understand it. And we don't feel the need to define for the patient what would make his or her knee replacement socially acceptable. We allow the patient and the patient's doctor to make that decision based on the lifestyle and needs of the patient. I know! Let's do the same with abortions!

Me? I'm pro-abortion and pro-knee replacements. The end.

[LaMouffette]

68. Thanks for the response, Scrivener7. Made me do some thinking.

I should have put: "I'm not pro-abortion for myself." If I had gotten pregnant back in the day (I'm pushing 60 now), I couldn't have gone through with an abortion (unless it was from a rape or incest). If I had willingly had sex and gotten preggers, I would have felt too much personal responsibility for that squirming little tadpole-like mass inside of me. Not due to my religion, don't have one. I just couldn't do it out of pure guilt.

And because I wouldn't be able to go through with an abortion, I do feel saddened when I hear about some other woman having one. So in that sense I am not pro-abortion. I don't try to shame them if they have already had one. If it's before the abortion, I don't try to convince them not to do it.

But your response and others' responses in this thread reminded me that I'm not everybody. Other women don't see things the way I do. Other women have vastly different experiences and situations from my own. So in that sense, I am pro-abortion. And I can see you thinking, "Parsing again! Could this woman get any more wishy-washy?!"

The answer is yes, I can be even more wishy-washy! Because then I try to think of it from the point of view of the anti-abortion activists. They really do believe with all their heart and soul that abortion is murder. I don't mean the Republican politicians, who could really give a shit one way or the other. But there are deeply religious people who activate against what they truly believe is killing babies.

The problem is, how the hell do all of us American with so many varying stances toward abortion, pro-, anti-, and wishy-washy (like me), live in this one country together?

I'm still thinking it through and have no good answer to this. But I guess it will come down to a compromise. Compromising seems to come easier for us Dems. But it will be next to impossible to convince the strongly anti-abortion Repubs to quit trying to obliterate all forms of abortion.

[Scrivener7]

69. No, I don't think you are wishy washy. I am past childbearing age too. But twice when I thought

I was pregnant and unmarried, I had completely different responses. Once, I was ready to schedule the abortion. On the other, I was ready to have the baby. So I am no less wishy washy than you. (Both times it was just a scare.)

I have to say that I have stopped trying to think of it from the point of view of the anti-abortionists. They never try to think of it from my point of view. And here's the thing: I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER require that they live by my beliefs. And I am tired of giving them a pass when they require that I live by their beliefs, simply because they really, really believe their beliefs. When I realized that their belief strength was no greater than mine, I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I am done with the idea of compromise. This is not an area where there is really any room for compromise. No woman should have to compromise when it comes to her decisions about her body. Compromise in the case of abortion rights means some child might have to go through life unwanted. Some woman might have to bear a child she cannot afford. Some family might lose a wife and mother because an abortion was not readily available to remedy a health problem.

I think the real answer lies with what mountain grammy said up thread: we all need to mind our own business. I will do what is right for me and they should do what is right for them, and all of us should mind our own business.

[LaMouffette]

93. You have swayed me with your third paragraph:

"I have to say that I have stopped trying to think of it from the point of view of the anti-abortionists. They never try to think of it from my point of view. And here's the thing: I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER require that they live by my beliefs. And I am tired of giving them a pass when they require that I live by their beliefs, simply because they really, really believe their beliefs. When I realized that their belief strength was no greater than mine, I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt."

The other side wouldn't/doesn't give a rat's ass about our beliefs on this matter, do they? Hence their T-shirt slogan: "Fuck your feelings."

That and what mountain grammy said. And I'm so glad it was just a scare for you both times and you didn't have to make the decision either way.

And just as an aside, God, I love this forum! To have a place to actually work things out in your own mind, from reading other people's posts and with input from others on one's own posts and then mulling shit over. I tell you, if it weren't for DU, I would have just, I don't know, imploded a few times from the daily assault on humanity over the past five years, courtesy of the Republican Party and TFG.

Have a good evening, Scrivener7!

[Scrivener7]

94. And I'm so glad I was here for it!

I love it too. It really is a place to go for help with any problem. From working out these issues in our heads to knowing if your car mechanic is pulling your leg. To getting great music recommendations. And Floyd Turbo ultimate dad joke-type threads which always just kill me.

ETA: And catbyte threads! We can't forget those!

Glad we are here. And here together.

[we can do it]

47. I am pro abortion, for everyone and anyone who needs one.

[lonely bird]

48. I am pro-choice

That isn’t parsing anything. It means precisely what it says. Abortion must be available, legally. It must be performed under appropriate conditions in the correct environment meaning appropriate in terms of needed medical equipment available in case of emergency and clean, sterile space. I have zero problem with Medicaid or other governmental funds paying for abortions. I have zero problem with insurance companies being required to pay for it (although single payer for all is preferable but that is for another thread).

Since I cannot get pregnant I am not going to tell a woman what to do.

If parsing is allegedly an issue then slam the right. They are not pro-life. They are anti-choice/anti-abortion, period. They are intellectually as well as morally dishonest.

The time has come to rip that label from their greedy, clutching hands.

Enough with the infighting, circular firing squad.

[11 Bravo]

53. I am pro-rational sex education and affordable birth control, thereby hopefully ...

diminishing the need for abortion.
But should the above measures fall short, or if for any other reason a woman finds herself pregnant and not wishing to carry the fetus to term, then I am 100%, unequivocally, pro-choice.
And in that case, abortion should be safe, affordable, and readily available.
Her body, her choice.
End of story.

[Scrivener7]

65. That means you're pro abortion.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15827817

[MurrayDelph]

54. As a male in his late 60's

whose father had to tell his best friend about best friend's daughter being hospitalized for complications of a botched back-alley abortion, I grew up believing abortions should be safe, legal, and nobody else's damn business.

[Scrivener7]

86. Oh, what a nightmare. Was the daughter OK?

I can't imagine life in that time.

[MurrayDelph]

90. She survived and was still able to (and did) have kids

I lost contact with them when my dad died 17 years ago, but looked them up to discover his friend died two years ago at the age of 96, survived by the daughter and son, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren.

[Scrivener7]

91. That's a good ending to a terrible story. Thanks for the update.

[housecat]

55. republicans have demonstrated that they are really pro birth followed by pro-death.

Democrats are the pro-lifers as demonstrated in their politics, values, ane actions. Fuck Repibiicans with their hatred amd fear of anyone smarter then they are (i.e. everyone). The religion card has been overplayed to the point of being less than worthless, as are the so-called pro-lifers.

[Solly Mack]

56. I'm pro-abortion.

Women and girls don't need a tragic story to have an abortion. They shouldn't have to convince anyone that their choice is worthy of consideration as an "exception".

Her body. Her business. Her choice.

Yes. There are a shit-ton of horrific circumstances in the world - but women and girls shouldn't have to be in a bad situation to appeal to the compassion of authoritarian assholes or their choice seen as an acceptable excuse just to get an abortion.

The supposed compassion of assholes, or lack thereof, should have no bearing at all. Should not even be a consideration.

My rights should not be determined by the whims of others.

[Scrivener7]

82. This, exactly. The OP argument is lovely. I mean that sincerely. It shows the humanity behind the

necessity for abortions. But it makes the mistake of thinking that those who oppose abortions would give one iota of a rat's ass about the humanity behind the need for abortions.

It is a mistake, and it makes us appear to believe we need to justify abortions in a way that satisfies the morality of the republiQan opposers.

We tried that. And it was worth a try. But they are people without empathy or compassion. So I'm not willing to go there anymore. Just no. No one gets to decide what happens to my body. Period.

[Solly Mack]

87. Well said!

I fully get the reasoning behind the appeals to decency through examples of just how bad it is for a lot of women and young girls, but we shouldn't be forced into that position.

Because it is giving them the power over us if we have to satisfy their thinking - get their blessing - for something that is absolutely none of their business.

The thinking that conservatives and/or the religious are somehow the authority on morals and values is pure garbage, but people seem to buy into it.

[mrsadm]

70. Excellent post.

[Faux pas]

73. Kickin' with gusto!

[The Jungle 1]

78. Shouldn't it be illegal for men to get the little blue pill without a note from their legal wife.

[ChubbyStar]

133. It's ringing...the clue phone

What are you banging on about now Jungle?

[The Jungle 1]

134. It was a sarcastic joke aimed at stupid old white men who pass stupid laws.

Talk about needing a clue.
I am allowed to say stupid old white men because I am a stupid old white man. FYI That would be another sarcastic joke.
If you don't like what I post then don't read it. This is America and it is up to you what you read. Me I get to say whatever I want even if you don't like it. Within this forums rules.

Generally speaking it has been my experience that republicans have no sense of humor. Just saying.

[The Jungle 1]

141. The rules

Do not personally attack, insult, flame, threaten, bully, harass, stalk, negatively call-out, ascribe ugly ulterior motives to, or make baseless claims about any member of this community. Do not post in a manner that is hostile, abusive, or aggressive toward any member of this community.

If you can't follow the rules them maybe you should find another forum to express your anger.

Generally speaking it has been my experience that republicans cannot follow the rules. Just saying.

[WarGamer]

88. I have a different view...

I'm not going to get into "is it a living being" or not... or the moral component.

Bottom line, her body her choice. Live and let live, don't stick your nose in the business of others.

[Cha]

96. I'm Pro Choice.. that's the way it should

it always should have been Worded!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

101. The issue is, choice means little if someone doesn't have access.

FWIW, "pro-choice" is seen as an increasingly dated phrase within the movement.

[Mariana]

103. Funny how no one says they're "pro-choice" about any other issue.

For example, have you ever heard anyone say, "I'm pro-choice about same sex marriage"?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

104. Exactly.

[SYFROYH]

108. I'm pro-access to abortion for all women.

It's the woman's right to have an abortion and that's that.

I may believe that the inseminated egg is the first stage of a genetic human organism, but it is not yet a person which happens after birth.

[applegrove]

111. I'm pro Sandrine who mistakenly became pregnant by a man who turned

out was a narcissist and an asshole with a criminal history and was becoming abusive as the lovebombing wore off. He took her to court to stop her from having an abortion. She flew somewhere out of the jurusdiction and had one.

[spanone]

119. K&R

[Iggo]

125. I'm pro-abortion.

Safe and legal.

And if they make it unsafe and illegal, I’ll still be pro-abortion.