The defund the police talk needs to stop

[Boydog]

Unless we are just itching to lose the House and Senate in 2022. Dems who voice this message are for all intents and purposes, Republicans.

[leftstreet]

1. Who's talking about it? Which candidates? n/t

[Boydog]

4. Cori Bush

Kind of ironic when she has her own personal security as the Republicans are already pointing out.

[leftstreet]

5. So you think she'll cost Democrats the midterms? n/t

[brooklynite]

11. I think she provides a "fringe" image they can tag to multiple candidates.

[leftstreet]

14. The hero who helped stop evictions?

Schumer himself came to thank her, Pelosi gave her the nod, hugs from AOC

but suddenly...

[Boydog]

24. Her efforts to stop evictions were commendable.

I just can’t figure out how that message morphed into “defund the police” but it did. There needs to be a clear understanding that holding our margins in the mid terms is of primary importance and playing into the hands of Republicans puts our chances in peril.

[leftstreet]

27. lol blamestorming season is starting early n/t

[Celerity]

80. blamestorming, I like that word

[brush]

120. Guess you don't know what happened. After her commendable...

efforts to stop renter evictions, she was asked about the 70k she spends on personal security. She defended the spending as she gets death threats, then suddenly, out of nowhere, she says we have to defund the police.

Guess the irony escapes her. Defund the police as policy or slogan or whatever is an undeniable vote loser. Any mention of if certainly needs to stop YESTERDAY.

[StarfishSaver]

136. Maybe you should tell that to the people who keep asking her about it

You seem pretty worked up that she talks about it but she's only talking about it because people keep asking her about it.

So, instead of instructing Cori Bush about what she should and shouldn't talk about, you should aim your complaints and lectures at the media who keep bringing it up.

[brush]

138. I'm not having this argument with you. We disagree on it.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

243. Poor Jen had to deal with this stupid statement from Bush

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

244. It's vital for the country that Democrats win more seats in Congress.

[brooklynite]

31. The people benefiting are not largely in the competitive districts.

And people won't hear about that, they'll see a clip of her "anti-cop"/"pro-security" rant.

[LanternWaste]

226. Data to support?

Or just another bumper-sticker? Again.

[brooklynite]

234. The competitive districts we won in 2018 (and lost some of in 2020) are in the suburbs.

They're districts we won from Republicans. Name a suburban district where DTP is a popular slogan and where evictions is a major issue.

[George II]

166. President Biden had been working on stopping eviction since June 29 as soon as the Supreme....

....Court ruled that any extension would have to be done through Congressional legislation.

President Biden and the CDC/DOJ, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer came up with a way of extending the moratorium.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

202. This lady gave the GOP great clips to use in attack ads

Last cycle the GOP used members of the Squad in attack ads and Democrats lost a good number of seats. In Texas we need to pick up 9 seats to flip the house and I saw the Squad promoting the moronic defund the police in two different races and these ads were effective

Link to tweet

[LetMyPeopleVote]

204. The CDC order will likely be overturned

We need Congress to pass an eviction extension I read the SCOTUS decision that worried the Biden admin and the current SCOTUS has made clear that Congress needs to approve an extension. The steps being advocated will not stop the SCOTUS from striking down this extension

Link to tweet

[StarfishSaver]

19. You really think that if Cori Bush never says anything again, Republicans won't smear Democrats?

[Boydog]

26. Of course they will smear us but there's no need to help them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. The only way to "avoid helping them" would be to say only things they agree with.

No thanks.

[StarfishSaver]

42. Thank you

I'm over twisting ourselves into knots trying not to say or do anything that "they will use against us." When would think that, by now, given how the Republicans have proven willing to lie about everything and anything, we would stop assuming that their attacks on us are based on anything we actually say or do.

And funny how these "don't say this, don't do that" lectures only seem to be directed at people of color and/or allies who are advocating for our interests.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. Yep. There are a lot in the party who simply cannot divest themselves of the idea that the best way

forward is to avoid hurting white Republicans' feelers in whatever next election is coming up.

And funny how these "don't say this, don't do that" lectures only seem to be directed at people of color and/or allies who are advocating for our interests.

EXACTLY. Beyond frustrating.

[StarfishSaver]

50. Still waiting to hear someone here insist that purple state Democrats lay off the

middle-of-the-road messaging because they might scare off blue state Dems who will suddenly believe that all Democrats are right wing apologists.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

61. Heh.

[Boydog]

94. If we don't win, we are all on the fringe.

[uponit7771]

72. *** POST OF THE MORNING !!! ***

[LetMyPeopleVote]

207. I had two friends run for state house in 2020 and they had the moronic defund the police ad used

These ads are very effective. We needed nine state house seats and we had 10 that Beto had beaten Carnival Cruz in. These ads were used very effectively in these and other races

[StarfishSaver]

210. Maybe they should have run more effective campaigns

If they couldn't convince voters in their jurisdiction that something some Democrat said in another state had no bearing on what their own platform and what they would do for their constituents, they had problems bigger than Cori Bush talking about defunding the police - and either they weren't good candidates or nothing any candidate said or did would have won them an election no matter how good they were.

Claiming that a Democrat couldn't manage to beat candidates running with Trump in Texas because a Democrat somewhere across the country said "Defund the Police" is just an excuse, in my view, and a lame one at that.

These ads were used in many places - and many of the Democrats won their races anyway. So maybe "Defund the Police" wasn't the problem but a failure to effectively counter the lie was the reason some Democrats lost.

Republicans accuse Democrats of being Socialists all the time and their lies are often very effective - does that mean we should stop talking about universal healthcare and free public schools?

Of course not.

As I've said, it seems that only when the issue is social justice and civil rights that people complain about this sort of thing.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

220. Have you ever run for office? Have you worked in campaigns?

You are wrong and here I trust Whip Clyburn. James Clyburn is correct in that the exit and other polling showed that this moronic slogan cost the Democratic Party seats in 2020

Link to tweet

House Majority Whip James Clyburn criticized calls to "defund the police" during several media appearances on Sunday, saying that the phrase hurt Democratic congressional candidates and could potentially derail the Black Lives Matter movement.

Clyburn said on CNN's "State of the Union" that he'd spoken with the late Rep. John Lewis about the phrase this summer, the two concluding "that it had the possibilities of doing to the Black Lives Matter movement and current movements across the country what 'Burn, baby, burn' did to us back in 1960."

Clyburn, a prominent student activist during the civil rights movement who has ascended to become the nation's most powerful Black legislator, has repeatedly denounced calls to "defund the police" as "sloganeering" that harms the overall cause of the Black Lives Matter movement.

[StarfishSaver]

230. Yes, I have worked in numerous campaigns

From mayoral races to statewide to Congressional to presidential campaigns, in senior positions.

I know whereof I speak.

And my position is not inconsistent with JIm Clyburn's whom I love and respect to the moon and back (he's an old friend), even though I don't always agree with him. The fact that DTP may have hurt some candidates does not mean that it hurt every candidate or that it could not have been overcome with more effective campaigning and better messaging by individual candidates. Candidates all across the country - including Joe Biden and Raphael Warnock - managed to overcome Republican lies and smears. Blaming losses on a slogan is an oversimplification of very complex and diverse races.

Democrats need to stop running scares every time Republicans say "boo!" or tell lies about them.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

235. I am really curious as wo why defund the police is such a sacred cow to some

his is not an academic exercise for me. I am active with Texas Party and we are looking at why so many Hispanic voters went for TFG last cycle. TFG had a ton of support in the Rio Grande Valley last cycle and the state party has been polling to find out what happened. The Hispanic vote is not a monolith there are a good number of Hispanic voters who hate socialism and support the police. Guess what, socialism and radical concepts like Defund the Police alienated these voters. One set of polls confirmed that socialism is a big negative for Texas Hispanic voters and I have seen similar polling as to Florida Hispanic voters. We had a party function this week and I understand that more polling will be done on police/law enforcement before the 2022 elections. It was discussed that two GOP Texas PACs were very active on using Defund the Police ads and that they PACS will be active in 2022.

I do not understand how a small segment of the party which has no legislative accomplishments get to tell the rest of the party that we have to use stupid slogans that will cost us elections. I am sure that the Texas Party will be taking some strong positions before 2022 on stupid concepts like defund the police. We were nine state house seats away from flipping control of the Texas house and avoiding issues like permit-less gun carry and the voter suppression law. I am not in favor of going into 2022 and seeing candidates lose due to moronic slogans like defund the police.

If we want to turn Texas blue, we need to stop with stupid crap like socialism and defund the police. If we had picked up 9 state house seats in 2022, Texas could have a real electrical grid and a host of other policies. I would not have a couple dozen friends cap out in DC to avoid the Texas voter suppression law. We are headed to a special session next month to adopt a horrible voter suppression bill If a small segment of the party gets to declare that "defund the police" is the policy of the party, Texas will never turn blue. I am confident that the state party will adopt a platform that will be clear that no intelligent Texas candidates will be supporting this moronic concept

[StarfishSaver]

239. It's not a "sacred cow" to me. I think it's a stupid slogan

I just have trouble believing - based on the evidence I've seen and my own experience - that the slogan is as big a problem as some claim. And even if it is problematic, I'm certain that the constant harping on it by Democrats only makes it worse.

Democrats are far too often scared of their own shadows - especially when it comes to anything related to social justice and civil rights. Too many Democrats consistently fall all over themselves scrambling away from these issues because they think it scares other white people, when they aren't nearly as concerned about other issues, slogans, etc. that can be just as problematic but don't touch on civil rights. When it comes to those issues, they figure out how to challenge and counter the lies. But let anyone say anything about racial justice and the reaction is STOP TALKING ABOUT IT! YOU'RE SCARING PEOPLE AWAY!!!

Republicans accuse Democrats of all manner of crazy things. That doesn't mean we force everyone in the party to shut up. We just improve our messaging and push back on the lies.

I think people are making WAY too much of the Defund the Police slogan. If a candidate doesn't support it, he or she should just say so, explain their position and work to prove to their voters why they are a better candidate than the Republican. If a Republican attack ad featuring Cori Bush or AOC or anyone else saying "Defund the Police" is enough to derail the campaign message of a candidate somewhere in the South or Midwest, there's something wrong with their messaging. And if Defund the Police had never been uttered, Republicans would simply come up with another lie to use against that candidate - and it would likely work since they apparently don't know how to overcome a false narrative shaped by liars and demagogues.

Instead of wasting time and energy whining about what a handful of Democrats are saying, Democrats need to sharpen their message and improve their campaigns so that lies and false ads don't have the ability to derail their campaigns.

[uponit7771]

71. THANK YOU !!!

[The Magistrate]

74. Hear Hear

[uponit7771]

70. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 OMFG people need to stop blaming horrible messaging on the outcries of oppressed

[Budi]

101. We're not talking about 'anything'.

We are addressing the undefinable slogan, Defund the Police, thus leaving it up to interpretation by even the RW to openly interpret & use as they see fit.

There never was a defination to defend against a RW attack.
It was just a 3 word slogan with no follow through.

[uponit7771]

118. Then its bad campaigning to allow an opponent to frame the debate with an non issue. There's

... no blaming the slogan we need to focus on the real problem, messaging.

[Budi]

122. The Undefined, open ended Slogan IS the Message

THAT IS THE ISSUE.
Now All Democrats are supposed to clean up the fking mess left by a few shortsighted sloganeers?

THEY need to clean it up rather than just repeating it, then crying 'foul' when their own undefinable words are thrown back in their faces.

They gave it to anyone, anywhere to use as they see fit.
Maybe define it next time they use it or stop crying foul.
Ffs

[uponit7771]

124. Again, you have no proof DTP was democrats message in 2020. It wasn't and if you're under the

... the impression it was then that's proof the RWTP worked in 2020 and dem messaging was weak.

You're basically going off what people feel and ignoring the overwhelming data that points to bad "branding" and lack of messaging that lost dems races down ballot in 2020.

There's no proof DTP was a DECIDING factor in split races, none

There is proof that candidates who defined themselves with local messages and reached constituents fared best.

[Budi]

130. Nope. That is not true at all.

What is true is that down ballot races were INDEED damaged by DFP. That loosely interpreted 3 word slogan became a RW weapon and they gleefully used it, fundraised off it & won with it against down ballot candidates, who never ever spoke those words but were left to somehow find a defensible counter to the RW label they stuck hard against them.

[uponit7771]

154. Link and quote the polls that claim DTP was the DEFINING reason we lost. We're "hurt" by anything

... but that doesn't mean people will keep from voting because of such issues.

We BOTH know "hurt" isn't what people are focusing on when it comes to DTP seeing there's no proof that it even "hurt" at all.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

208. Do you tire of being wrong?

The polling that you were shown on other threads showed that you are wrong.Here is an exit poll that showed that we lost a number of seats due to the moronic slogan "defend the police"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2020/11/09/defund_the_police_backfired_on_democrats_528914.html

Instead of a blue wave for the Democrats, there was a red Republican wave in the 2020 elections. Many analysts are explaining this unexpected outcome in ways that confirm their prior assumptions. Anti-woke centrist liberals: The Democratic Party was too woke. Bernie Sanders-type social democrats: The Democrats blew it by not running on Medicare for All. Professional conservative pundits: Trump and Trumpism are more popular with Americans than we thought.

I beg to differ. I think this was a law and order election.

According to early exit polls, here were the reasons that voters voted for Trump and presumably other Republicans: The economy (82%), crime and safety (71%), health care policy (36%), the coronavirus pandemic (14%) and racial inequality (8%).....

Maybe the slogan “defund the police” backfired.

Democrats might reply: But Biden and Harris rejected the phrase “defund the police.” Indeed, they did. And Donald Trump has repeatedly denounced and rejected white supremacy and white nationalism. Nevertheless, the mainstream media and Democratic propagandists (but I repeat myself again) have told us for four years that by denouncing white supremacy in public, Trump is secretly approving of white supremacy, dog-whistle-style.

Turnabout is fair play. Having tried to persuade voters that all Republicans are closet Nazis whose public statements cannot be taken at face value, Democratic spinmeisters in the media cannot be surprised if it turns out that some swing voters have concluded that apparently mainstream Democrats are closet antifa sympathizers. Possibly many swing voters thought that actions—or, in the case of the summer riots, inaction—spoke louder than words about the Democratic Party’s attitude to law enforcement, particularly when many Democratic urban governments from Minneapolis to Austin proceeded relentlessly to cut police budgets in the name of racial justice, even as the violence was going on.

When you put together two facts—the fact that the Republican Party as a whole picked up voters, and the fact that 71% of voters for the Republican presidential candidate said they were motivated by “crime and safety”—it all adds up. The voter backlash following the urban riots of 1967 helped to produce the Nixon victory of 1968. And the voter backlash following the urban riots of 2020 helped to produce the Republican electoral wave in November 2020.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

209. Again do you ever tire of being wrong

This article explains why Democrats did poorly in the 2020 elections.

Link to tweet

3. Moderate Democrats got slammed by “defund the police” and “socialist” and “Medicare-for-all” ads. These were the predominant ads that Republicans ran in competitive House and Senate races. Some of it was fearmongering and inaccurate. In retrospect, a number of Democrats, especially moderate ones, don’t think the party took those attacks seriously enough.

Here’s what Rep. Harley Rouda (D-Calif.), who lost, told The Washington Post: “Many [voters], I believe, bought into the message that Democrats are marching in that direction [of socialism], and that was a false narrative. I would tell you, the Democratic Party, in my opinion, is more moderate than it has ever been. We did not combat that message as effectively as we should have.”

“My opponent only talked about three words: Defund the police,” Democrat Cameron Webb said on a private call this week, Politico reported. He lost what Democrats hoped was a winnable race in Virginia.

“I’m not sure that as a party we took that attack head on, and provided our counter narrative,” Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.) told Politico of “socialist” attacks resonating with Hispanic voters in Florida, costing Democrats two House seats. “It’s not enough to say what you’re not, you have to define what you are. And we have to define it in a way that doesn’t scare the American people.”

“[T]he [liberal] rhetoric and the policies and all that stuff — it has gone way too far,” Rep. Conor Lamb (D-Pa.) told the New York Times. “It needs to be dialed back. It needs to be rooted in common sense, in reality, and yes, politics. Because we need districts like mine to stay in the majority and get something done for the people that we care about the most.”

[LetMyPeopleVote]

205. This statement is so very easy to make into an attack ad that it is sad

.

Link to tweet

[intheflow]

30. So you're someone who advocates silencing Black women at this time in history.

Got it.

[Boydog]

36. I'm for coordinating the message around giving us the

best chance of holding on to control of both houses to give Joe Biden a chance to govern. Maybe you have forgotten what the Trump years were like

[uponit7771]

76. cause GQP wont demonize that message also ?! REALLY, do you see what they're doing with CRT ?!

We need leadership on issues and not run away outcries of the oppressed that's a way to lose it all trying to save that precious 1% of white people who flip on a dime

[brooklynite]

38. I'm someone who advocates winning elections, and criticizing stupid political mantras...

...that make winning elections more difficult. 'DEFUND THE POLICE" was a stupid phrase that cost us seats in 2020, and its not improved because a Black elected official in a safe district continues to say it.

[empedocles]

49. Agreed

[uponit7771]

104. If a "mantra" democratic party doesn't ascribe to beats us then its not the mantra's fault its ...

... bad campaigning PERIOD.

If we can't make MTG and pedophiles like Gaetz the face of the GQP then how in the world are the GQP making the 3 - 4 dems who support the sentiment behind DTP the face of democratic party ?!

Because of bad messaging ... PERIOD

[LetMyPeopleVote]

213. So all of the good Democratic candidates who lost in 2020 due to this moronic slogan are bad dems?

So my two friends who lost state house seats and another friend who lost a congressional seat are bad persons who deserved to lose because they could not overcome a moronic slogan. Does it make you feel good to attack real candidates who ran and lost due to this moronic slogan? Do you know how much courage it takes to run for office? I was involved in all three campaigns and these candidates are good democrats and good persons who did not deserve to lose

Again, ads featuring the squad were used in all three races. This new clip from Bush is even better than the clips used last cycle

Link to tweet

[brush]

123. Agreed also. It's about the dumbest, vote losing phrase ever.

It's just gives republicans ammo for negative ads against Dem candidates.

[brooklynite]

40. Am I also "silencing Black women" when I criticize the comments of Nina Turner?

[treestar]

143. as if a member of Congress can be "silenced"

race and gender notwithstanding.

[George II]

172. Unreasonable projection. What's being call upon is to stop bad messaging from ALL Democrats...

Male, female, Black, white, Asian American, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, etc. ALL Democrats.

For you to zero in on the fact that she's a "Black woman" is totally unfair. Does this mean that she gets a pass on everything she says for the rest of her career or the rest of her life merely because she's a "Black woman"?

I saw the same thing on Twitter in the last week. During the OH-11 primary some who criticized Nina Turner were accused of bashing a "woman of color", totally ignoring that those who were criticizing her were Shontel Brown supporters. Guess what? She's a woman of color!

Please don't introduce extraneous or irrelevant factors into the discussion. People don't want Bush "silenced" (no one said that anyway) because she's a "Black woman", they want her to stop a damaging message despite her race or gender.

[StarfishSaver]

177. The point is

Last edited Sun Aug 8, 2021, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

that this "shut up, you're scaring the white people again" is almost exclusively reserved for people talking about civil rights and social justice issues: Defund the Police, BLM, Critical Race, Theory, "wokeness," "identity politics," etc.

There's a distinct theme to this.

[intheflow]

190. Thank you for explaining it more eloquently than I would have.

I was thinking about tone policing, but the number of (mostly white) people on the left who think anything in US politics can be devoid of racism is both astounding and disturbing. Subconscious racial and gender biases are well documented, and I'd bet most people on this site would say they know that. But few people do the deep dive into exploring their own racial biases - because it's so insidious they can't see it in themselves.

[StarfishSaver]

192. Exactly

Not only won't they do the work to explore it, they deeply resent having it pointed out and view any attempt to discuss it as a personal attack.

[George II]

199. But this is not an issue of "silencing Black women", either now or any time in history.....

That is an oversimplification of what was said. It is about this issue that is up for discussion. Those other issues are totally different, has nothing to do with this discussion about defunding the police.

As I pointed out, someone accused someone else of similar on Twitter for not supporting Nina Turner. No matter that the person supported Shontel Brown.

This discussion is not about who someone is, it's about what that person is saying. If it was a white man saying it, many who don't agree with "defund the police" would feel the same way about him. It's not about "silencing white men"!

PLUS, Cori Bush has spoken on a number of other issues that many agree with. So it's NOT as simple as "silencing Black women." I and many others don't happen to agree with the "defund the police" slogan. It's not a racial or gender thing, it's a difference of opinion.

By the way, Representative James Clyburn stated this week that he wished people would stop using that slogan. Surely people here aren't going to accuse JAMES CLYBURN of silencing Black women, are they?

I'm now going to respectfully withdraw from this discussion.

[StarfishSaver]

206. I never said this is an effort to silence Black women

It's an effort to stop people from talking about topics that make some white people uncomfortable - it just happens that many of the people talking about these issues are people of color.

I disagree with Clyburn about this - and think it's interesting that many of the people who have consistently dismissed him as "establishment," "too old," "needing to step aside," etc. ( none of which you do, by the way), now keep pulling him out as the purveyor of all wisdom - an all-too common tactic that some people use to gaslight people of color as if we must all think alike.

[sheshe2]

245. I luv your voice.

However.

I disagree with Clyburn about this - and think it's interesting that many of the people who have consistently dismissed him as "establishment," "too old," "needing to step aside," etc. ( none of which you do, by the way), now keep pulling him out as the purveyor of all wisdom - an all-too common tactic that some people use to gaslight people of color as if we must all think alike.

They only people I see using these terms:

"establishment," "too old," "needing to step aside,"

They only people I see using these terms are the youngin's. They think they know everything. They don't. They are The Revolution. Justice Democrats and now morphed into The Peoples Party.

They want there own party and to hell with the elders. They are so young, patience grasshopper, your time may come only if you chose wisely.

[Cha]

218. No you don't. Sen Warnock & Rep Clyburn Say NO

to DTP.. I don't Accuse anyone of trying to "Silence" them. We're not trying to "Silence" anyone.. We strongly Disagree.

Why do you go Falsely go there?

People with more than two brain cells know that defund the police means to restructure the policing system.

If that's what they mean they should say so. People shouldn't be expected to read their minds.

I'm going with Rev Warnock on this.. Not the Loser Kelly Loeffner.

FACT CHECK: Reverend Warnock Does Not Support Defunding The Police, But Kelly Loeffler Has Voted Against Law Enforcement Funding

https://warnockforgeorgia.com/fact-check-reverend-warnock-does-not-support-defunding-the-police-but-kelly-loeffler-has-voted-against-law-enforcement-funding/

And, these Reps actually Did Vote Against Funding the Capitol Police..

Link to tweet

We Want to Hold On the the House Victory that the Moderates Won for us on Health Care in 2018.. Not Lose it on the Stupid Slogan "DTP"

Shontle Brown Won in Ohio and she Doesn't support DFT!

This is what Rep Clyburn had to say about it..

Clyburn stepped in when the rapper and activist Killer Mike, appearing at a campaign event with Turner, said the No. 3 House Democrat had been "incredibly stupid" to back Biden without securing more concessions. Clyburn endorsed Brown and warned that the left's "sloganeering" -- such as calls to defund the police -- is politically damaging.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/politics/ohio-primaries-takeaways/index.html

[uponit7771]

68. Cori Bush represents dems more than MTG represents the GQP ?! REALLY !? WOW !! If that's ...

... so who are you listening too?!

tia

[markie]

6. Cori Bush, for one

[oasis]

39. ImWithHer. 99% agreement.

But, "Defund the Police" as a slogan, has to go.

[intheflow]

193. This was awesome, thanks. n/t

[calguy]

7. Enough democrats talked about it before the election that it's still a talking point for the right.

It doesn't take but a few extreme liberals saying it before the right wing media runs with it and makes it an issue.
In my opinion, it's a major reason we lost seats in the House last time.

[empedocles]

52. Correct. Some Dems just keep the phrase more alive, more attackable.

fox can make that video very visible.

[uponit7771]

66. "some dems" like 3!? They define the whole party !? and if the party is allowing them to do such ...

... then that's horrible messaging and not the fault of outcries from the oppressed.

[treestar]

144. M$M will make it so

[StarfishSaver]

146. Then folks should direct the complaint at them, not at individuals who aren't even bringing it up

[uponit7771]

153. Our message permeates the M$M correct ?! I mean, come on people we need to focus on the real ...

... problem; our lack of message to the US that can't even get past RWTP and stop blaming slogans the oppressed are chanting.

[treestar]

195. We've lacked this message for 20 years

what is the message?

[uponit7771]

197. Run and don't say anything less it be used against us which is bad politicing

[LetMyPeopleVote]

214. Again,, that is not how politics work in the real world

The autopsy report held that defund the police was an effective weapon in the last election

Link to tweet

These trends have alarmed Democrats at all levels — from the White House, where Biden recently delivered his first major speech on fighting crime; to voters, who are rallying behind crime-focused candidates in early primaries; to U.S. House members who are bluntly warning liberal colleagues to tone down their attacks on law enforcement.

“?‘Defund police’ is a phrase that I wish had never been uttered,” said Rep. Cheri Bustos (D-Ill.), who ran the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee when Republicans picked up 13 House seats over the two-year 2020 election cycle. “We’ve got to do a better job of talking about what we do want to do.”

A post-election analysis from House Democrats concluded that the “defund the police” slogan, embraced by Black Lives Matter protesters, gave Republicans an effective weapon in the last election, even though most Democrats, including Biden, consistently rejected the message. Republicans are continuing to produce ads featuring the slogan, depicting angry protesters and blaring sirens as they seek to tie rising crime to police overhaul efforts......

But for now, the strongest anxiety is voiced by Democrats who worry that the impassioned voices of the few in their party who embrace “defund the police” will drown out the far greater number who don’t.

“I think it’s critically important that we explain this in a way that doesn’t label us in a way that is inaccurate,” Bustos said.

[uponit7771]

65. Of course democrats "talked about it" that doesn't mean people agreed with it as policy !! OMG, the

... amount of RWTP repeated on this subject is gob smacking.

We have a horrible messaging infrastructure, the outcries of the oppressed shouldn't take the fall for that

[LetMyPeopleVote]

215. Again, do you ever tire of being wrong-here are some more facts that show that you are wrong

The autopsy report held that defund the police was an effective weapon in the last election

Link to tweet

These trends have alarmed Democrats at all levels — from the White House, where Biden recently delivered his first major speech on fighting crime; to voters, who are rallying behind crime-focused candidates in early primaries; to U.S. House members who are bluntly warning liberal colleagues to tone down their attacks on law enforcement.

“?‘Defund police’ is a phrase that I wish had never been uttered,” said Rep. Cheri Bustos (D-Ill.), who ran the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee when Republicans picked up 13 House seats over the two-year 2020 election cycle. “We’ve got to do a better job of talking about what we do want to do.”

A post-election analysis from House Democrats concluded that the “defund the police” slogan, embraced by Black Lives Matter protesters, gave Republicans an effective weapon in the last election, even though most Democrats, including Biden, consistently rejected the message. Republicans are continuing to produce ads featuring the slogan, depicting angry protesters and blaring sirens as they seek to tie rising crime to police overhaul efforts......

But for now, the strongest anxiety is voiced by Democrats who worry that the impassioned voices of the few in their party who embrace “defund the police” will drown out the far greater number who don’t.

“I think it’s critically important that we explain this in a way that doesn’t label us in a way that is inaccurate,” Bustos said.

[George II]

170. Cori Bush has been on MSNBC more than once, CNN, CBS News, and others and in each appearance....

....she has adamantly called on defunding the police.

Others have also.

Quick search, first hit:

This is from last June (2020) - Ocasio-Cortez dismisses proposed $1B cut: 'Defunding police means defunding police'

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

Two of the top NYC mayoral candidates called for defunding the police - they lost to a candidate who ran against defunding the police.

It cost us seats in 2020 and it's going to cost Democratic seats next year if it doesn't end.

[StarfishSaver]

171. Do you really believe

there are any voters who are likely to vote for a Democratic candidate but will decide instead to vote for the Republican candidate in their district because they heard Cori Bush say she wants to defund the police?

I don't.

Yes, I think there are people who will say that in order to try to explain away why they're voting for Republicans they were planning to vote for anyway.

[George II]

178. There are many voters who go into campaigns undecided that might, or there are some who....

....switch back and forth from election to election.

Max Rose and Abby Finkenauer are the first to come to mind, and some went down to the wire but were not lost. Those two were incumbent Democrats in tight districts.

We can argue whether Defund the Police was the deciding issue or not. It may not have been the be all and end all in voters' decisions, but it certainly played a factor.

Elsewhere I noted that in the recent NYC Mayoral primary, two who ran on defund the police were defeated by Eric Adams, who ran against defunding the police.

Many democrats are hesitant to come right out and say it's a bad slogan, but I'm sure many quietly cringe when they hear it.

[StarfishSaver]

183. Anybody that flaky and undecided can't be trusted to base our messaging and outreach on

And talking about candidates who do or don't run on Defund the Police is irrelevant to this discussion. We're not talking about whether "Defund the Police" is a winning message/platform for a candidate. We're talking about whether every Democratic politician in America should refrain from mentioning Defund the Police because it might hurt unrelated Democratic candidates in other races in other parts of the country - even candidates who don't support it.

Cori Bush talked about defunding the police and won her race. So did AOC. Joe Biden and Raphael Warnock distanced themselves from it and won their races, notwithstanding AOC's and Bush's support for it. So, obviously, it's not a campaign killer.

People aren't refusing to vote doe Democratic candidates in middle America because Cori Bush wants to defund the police. That's an excuse. If Cori Bush never existed, these people would still vote doe the Republican candidate - they would just come up with a different excuse to explain it.

I don't support defunding the police and think the slogan is misleading. So is "Make America Great Again" and, frankly, I still don't know what "Build Back Better" means. But I do know that this kind of tone policing of Democrats tends to only occur when it comes to voicing civil rights and social justice issues - or any other topic that tends to make some white people uncomfortable. We need to stop tiptoeing around and jumping through hoops for these snowflakey white folk who aren't going to vote Democratic anyway - No matter what we say or how we say it, we're not going to convince those people to vote for us.

[George II]

200. Be that as it may, the American voting public is what it is, flaky or not....

They're still going to see headlines and slogans and misrepresented ideas. That's what campaigns are all about, good or bad.

Let's look at one example close to (my) home - Max Rose.

In 2018 he won his election for NY-11 by 6.4% in a very conservative District in NYC.

In 2020 he lost his re-election bid by 6.3%.

For whatever reason(s), voters changed their preferences and votes.

I recall some of that campaign. Republicans were throwing "defund the police" at him, using the statements of a fellow Democratic representative in NYC. They made it a very important issue in that election, not of Representative Rose's choice. And he lost.

[betsuni]

173. Bet you five dollars someone's going to whine about that AOC article being from last year

and therefore is ancient history and doesn't count (or whatever the reasoning is, I don't know).

[George II]

175. The interview on the steps of the Capitol was a day or two ago.

[Walleye]

2. Amazing how many politicians really don't know anything about politics

[Elessar Zappa]

3. I don't hear hardly any Democrats saying "Defund the police".

Most Dems just want significant reform.

[comradebillyboy]

8. AOC defends 'defund the police' mantra after Dem losses

https://nypost.com/2020/11/12/aoc-defends-defund-the-police-mantra-after-dem-losses/

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defended her support for “defund the police” Thursday night after a number of Democrats credited the slogan, among other far-left policies she has championed, for their loss of seats in the House.

Democratic leaders complained that two issues closely associated with AOC — defunding the police and socialism — contributed to Democratic losses in House races last week, including Republican challenger Nicole Malliotakis ousting first-term Democratic Rep. Max Rose in the Staten Island congressional race.

[Elessar Zappa]

9. I know there's a few but

those are progressives in safe, blue districts. Most other Dems don’t agree with that slogan.

[comradebillyboy]

17. During our special election in May to fill Deb Halland's

seat in NM-1 the Rs ran endless clips of AOC. They try to make her the face of the Democratic Party. They are trying to paint the entire Democratic party as anti police using the public utterances of folks like AOC and Cori Bush.

[StarfishSaver]

90. Yes, they try to make AOC the face of the party. But not because of anything she says

She could not say a word between now and the next election or only say things that make her indistinguishable from Joe Manchin and she would STILL be cast as
one of the faces of the party.

[Boydog]

29. Yes but we ALL get painted with the same brush strokes

[StarfishSaver]

44. BS

We shouldn't have to water down messages everywhere in the country in order to cater to the lowest common denominator.

And, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think anyone in a red or purple state is voting based on what AOC or Cori Bush or any other progressive in another state is saying. And anyone who claims they are is lying in order to avoid the fact that they've chosen to vote Republican in their own District and don't want to admit it.

[Boydog]

246. If there's proof that a message is unpopular

and costs votes and thus cost seats, does continuing to repeat that message make any sense

[StarfishSaver]

250. People express unpopular opinions all the time

But it seems that people who express opinions about racial justice that make white people uncomfortable are the only ones who are told to shut up.

The Green New Deal and Medicare for All are also unpopular among the same voters folks are claiming are turned off by DTP. But we don't have swarms of DUers demanding that all talk about those topics must end or claiming that Bernie Sanders, AOC, Katie Porter, and others who champion those issues are responsible for candidates losing elections in the South and Midwest.

No - that sort of tone-policing and irrational demands that every single Democratic politician in America cease and desist talking about a particular issue because it will supposedly turn off white voters is generally reserved for topics like Defund the Police, Black Lives Matter, and Critical Race Theory.

[uponit7771]

105. This is false, we have a strong enough message where DTP distraction doesn't matter right ?!?!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

216. Again you are wrong

Here is a thoughtful analysis that focuses on the content of the ads and show that negative ads are very effective. The GOP was more effective in using negative ads and the Democratic candidates focused on the wrong issues https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/05/27/can-democrats-avoid-pitfalls-2020-new-analysis-offers-striking-answers/

The analysis also finds that Republicans spent a lot more money on casting Democrats as extremists than Democrats did in making the case against Republican extremism.

Democrats, of course, lost a net dozen House seats, underperforming victorious Joe Biden all over the place. The findings suggest Democrats need a rethink of their approach to those conundrums, the analysts conclude.

This is also more pressing now that Republicans are radicalizing in a way that poses a threat to future democratic stability, raising questions about how Democrats can highlight this to the public.

The study by Way to Win — a group distinguished by its big expenditures on turning out the Democratic base — attempts a comprehensive look at all the TV ads that ran in House races in the 2020 cycle. Some findings:

Democrats spent three times more than Republicans on ads that touted bipartisan outreach. Democrats spent $21.8 million on ads about “bipartisanship” or “working across the aisle,” while Republicans spent $6.2 million on them.
Democrats spent six times as much on positive ads than Republicans did. Democrats spent $18.6 million on positive ads that also happened to mention Republicans (say, by touting the ability to work with them), while Republicans spent $2.9 million on positive ads mentioning Democrats.
Republicans spent more than 10 times more on ads with the words “extremist” and “radical” than Democrats did. Republicans spent $51 million on such ads, while Democrats spent $3.4 million.
Overall, Republicans spent more than $87 million on ads with one or more of the following words in it: “AOC,” “Ocasio,” “Pelosi,” “socialism,” “socialist,” “defund,” “radical,” “extremist,” “extreme.”
GOP ads were more likely to use words with “emotional punch,” such as “taxes,” “radical” and “jobs,” while Democratic ads featured words like “insurance,” “voted” and “work.”

Jenifer Fernandez Ancona, the vice president of Way to Win, said that, in sum, Democrats in 2020 sent mixed messages: They touted their willingness to work with Republicans, even as Republicans called them socialists and extremists.

Negative ads such defund the police and socialism work and the GOP focused on these ads instead of more positive ads. Defund the police was a very effective line of attack according to the other polling on this thread

The GOP has already started running these ads

[Wounded Bear]

12. "November 12, 2020"...old article...nt

[comradebillyboy]

20. Has she changed her tune?

[Wounded Bear]

22. I don't k now, but she's a smart woman...

I haven't heard any quotes lately.

[Budi]

28. Well, just last week the broadly interpreted Slogan was again rolled out

It was quite the media dust up.
Even the GOP grabbed a slice of it.


See post #18

[uponit7771]

57. AOC represents majority democrats? thx in advance

[comradebillyboy]

86. No, but the Pukes paint her as the face of the Democratic Party.

In our May special election to replace Deb Halland Melanie Stansbury was painted as the second coming of AOC and the "defund the police" slogan was used as a cudgel against her. Every fucking Republican campaign ad told us that Dems wanted to defund the police.

[uponit7771]

89. So no one speaking about DTP will stop repukes from painting her as the face of the party?!

No really people, you guys need to look at your sources and logic here.

NOTHING will stop their lies but quick truths and when we don't have quick truths we lose.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

217. We are fortunate that the OH11 is showing that left wing twitter does not reflect the party

Twitter is not a good predictor of the election results in the real world. The real base of the party is not reflected on twitter and that is why twitter is usually wrong on predicting election results

Link to tweet

Throughout the 2020 presidential campaign, much of the mainstream media coverage emphasized the strength of progressive elements of the Democratic Party. Progressives had the energy, the media told us. The party had “shifted left.”

The Biden campaign, however, maintained the adage that “Twitter isn’t real life.” By that, the Biden team meant that the hyper-partisan left-wing rhetoric on social media — a realm where many media personalities live — is not representative of the party and especially not of Black voters, who remain the backbone of the party. Biden was right; he won despite the media’s fixation on the loud but less politically viable left wing.

With a string of primary victories among Democratic moderates in 2021 — including Eric Adams in New York’s mayoral race, Shontel Brown in Ohio’s 11th Congressional District and Terry McAuliffe in Virginia’s gubernatorial race — the media has again discovered the strength of moderates.

The New York Times intones: “In the most important elections of 2021, the center-left Democratic establishment has enjoyed an unbroken string of triumphs, besting the party’s activist wing from New York to New Orleans and from the Virginia coastline to the banks of the Cuyahoga River in Ohio. It is a winning streak that has shown the institutional Democratic Party to be more united than at any other point since the end of the Obama administration — and bonded tightly with the bulk of its electoral base.” And yes, the Times concedes, “These more moderate Democrats have mobilized an increasingly confident alliance of senior Black and Hispanic politicians, moderate older voters, white centrists and labor unions, in many ways mirroring the coalition Mr. Biden assembled in 2020.” (That would be the same coalition political pundits said in 2020 lacked the energy and enthusiasm to decide the nominee.)....

In Congress, it has been moderates who have flipped seats in recent elections. Far-left candidates might oust incumbents in deep-blue districts, but they have not delivered additional seats to build a majority. The moderate group Third Way noted after the 2018 midterms: “33 moderate New Democrat-endorsed candidates flipped red House seats to blue. That’s more than 79% of the total Democratic flips. Not a single Our Revolution-endorsed candidate [those backed by Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont] captured a red seat. Zero.

[Cha]

156. I wonder if Turner said she wanted "Defund

the Police" in Ohio?

[comradebillyboy]

182. Her husband and son are cops. Besides she was too busy

attacking Democrats like Jim Clyburn and Hillary Clinton to worry about the police.

[Cha]

184. Oh wow.. this is what James Clyburn had to say when

he endorsed Shontel Brown..

Clyburn endorsed Brown and warned that the left's "sloganeering" -- such as calls to defund the police -- is politically damaging.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/politics/ohio-primaries-takeaways/index.html

TY

[George II]

174. In case some object to the NY Post, here's another source from earlier last year:

Ocasio-Cortez dismisses proposed $1B cut: 'Defunding police means defunding police'

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

[Budi]

18. But just last week it was a major media statement & even gave the GOP their talking points.

Rep. CORI BUSH (D-Mo.) defended spending $70k on private security for herself as a member of Congress — while also saying Democrats should defund the police.

“I’m going to make sure I have security,” Bush said in a CBSN interview blowing up on Twitter. “I get to be here to do the work, so suck it up — and defunding the police has to happen. We need to defund the police.”

It's an unexplained campaign slogan conveniently rolled out to draw attention & division when the moment calls for it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215704403
Our sources tell us that the NRCC has already started weaving Bush’s interview into their attack ads on frontline House Democrats. As part of the effort, they released a new video juxtaposing the rise in crime nationwide with Bush’s comments, which they’ll be blasting out this afternoon. “Vote them out. November 8, 2022,” the video reads at the end.


An attention capturing slogan left up to interpretation, by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

[uponit7771]

62. GQP works OPENLY against the constitution and democracy and we give a shit about a slogan ...

... from the oppressed?

That's not the oppressed fault that's dems horrible messaging and campaigning !!!

If we can't demonize those who OPENLY work against democracy then do we need to be a party ?!

Come on people, the GQP will take CRT or DTP or ABC and "use it against us" because our message against their treason is horrid.

[Budi]

75. They can do it because the populist slogan WAS NEVER DEFINED.

Meaning, they are free to define it however they need to.
And THAT is the problem with "defund the police".

The loosely defined slogan gives the RW a generous hand everytime its spoken...

Thanks for nothing.
There leaves no defending against the RW attacks.
It was handed to them to use at there will.

[uponit7771]

77. Then that's the fault of democratic party messaging and not the outcry of the oppressed. Dems need

... better messaging infrastructure not less noisy voters, we lose the votes of the oppressed because we don't have leadership in messaging.

[Budi]

88. No that's the fault of those who repeat the slogan with Zero definition.Don't even lay this bs on...

...on the shoulders of the entire Democratic Party to own.

Those who repeat it need to perhaps define it rather than handing it to the RW as a broadly interpreted cudgel againt the entire Dem Party.

You tell me what those who keep repeating the slogan mean exactly.
Because I've yet to hear one of them give an official interpretation so to defend against the RW attacks.

As it stands, it is free to any interpretation, & just how does that then give the Dem Party the tools to help the oppressed, when the RW is free to define it as they wish, against the very oppressed it was meant to assist.

Shouting slogans back & forth helps just how?

[uponit7771]

95. EMPIRICALLY WRONG !!! Dems who defined themselves on DTP WON in 2020 those who ran and didn't

... define themselves LOST.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/2020-postelection-analysis/871b6e27d1b7c544/full.pdf

Candace Valenzuela’s polling in TX-24 showed that attacks related to Defund the Police weren’t any more impactful than other attacks, but the candidate reported that “people are missing the forest for the trees” and suspected these attacks were more pernicious and damaging than polling indicated

Facts are facts and I'm not trying to change reality to someone's perspective

[Budi]

107. Bs. DFP was the weapon that Dems had to fight against in critically close seats.

The loosely defined slogan was a gift for the RW to use against all Dems.
And they used it in every race they could.

Facts are facts.

[uponit7771]

110. Link and quote any evidence of such, I'm not talking about the words of people we respect ...

... seeing they don't have any facts behind them.

I'm talking about polling that says DTP was the loser for majority of those DB races, I'll wait ...

P.S. You don't have any proof of what I'm asking cause there isn't any, the stupid slogan wasn't making an impact in 2020 in purple and red districts and only made an impact were people won.

Proof is here

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/2020-postelection-analysis/871b6e27d1b7c544/full.pdf

Candace Valenzuela’s polling in TX-24 showed that attacks related to Defund the Police weren’t any more impactful than other attacks, but the candidate reported that “people are missing the forest for the trees” and suspected these attacks were more pernicious and damaging than polling indicated

We need better messages and not blaming Ls on the outcries of the oppressed and the proof that we need better messaging is GQP gets to commit treason and we run from slogans the party hasn't ascribed to.

That's HORRIBLE messaging ... PERIOD

[Cha]

159. You Are EMPHATICALLY CORRECT.. TY!

Please see this if you're interested..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15714790

[stopdiggin]

115. no. it's kinda' the fault

of the people that pushed the half-baked crack brained idea out there in the first place. Followed up with the endless examples of 'explaining', 'defining', 'nuancing' and ultimately rationalizing what was a really sh*tty message in the first place.

(and here were are STILL doing it .. !)

And, no, it's not just R's and the strategists that thought it was a really crap idea and a sure loser from the very beginning. Many Democratic voters thought exactly the same. The Repubs came up with the CRT, and Covid over the border, boogieman all on their own - and you're right there's not much we can do about that - but the Ds came up with the brain dead DTP - and we could certainly learn to stop shooting ourselves in the foot!

[uponit7771]

121. Link and quote dem party LEADERS who "pushed the half backed ... idea"?! Or are you agree with RWTP

... that was policy from the DNC?!

OMG, if we're allowing a few down ballot candidates to define the whole party then are message is fucked up beyond recognition !!

We need better messaging and not excuses blaming our Ls on slogans' from the oppressed.

Those slogans aren't going to stop, we have ... NO ... control over them we do have control over our messaging though

[stopdiggin]

131. DTP was a self inflicted wound

brought to us by elements within our own party (although in some case that seems to be a pretty loose affiliation). It should have been loudly denounced and discredited at the very beginning - but was not out of fear of offending or alienating some within the camp. That is different from CRT - which is spun up out of whole cloth.

[uponit7771]

155. DTP was loudly denounced by dem party leaders especially Biden, come on people stop falling

... for RWTP on this issue.

Did people watch the 2020 election in this thread ?!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

221. I trust Whip Clyburn here

Link to tweet

[LetMyPeopleVote]

219. Again it would help if you would work in a real campaign in the real world

You are wrong in how campaigns work in the real world

Link to tweet

[LetMyPeopleVote]

228. Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police

[uponit7771]

55. +1, 3 democrats out of 400 isn't "all" the democrats

[Budi]

98. Thank you

Populist sloganeering is the problem.
Throw it out there & let rest of the Dem Party figure out how to defend against the RW attacks.

They never considered that after they 1st sloganed it out to the media.

It has literally not helped any oppressed group in the way of legislation.
Have those who continue to sloganeer it produced any legislation to assist the oppressed they claim to have intended it for?
Nope.

Bush's words:

Rep. CORI BUSH (D-Mo.) defended spending $70k on private security for herself as a member of Congress — while also saying Democrats should defund the police.

“I’m going to make sure I have security,” Bush said in a CBSN interview blowing up on Twitter. “I get to be here to do the work, so suck it up — and defunding the police has to happen. We need to defund the police.”

Which Democrats is she referring to, to fix it?
Has she introduced legislation to defund the police and protect the Oppeessed?

Anyone know?

[Cha]

160. It's Good for her to have "Security" but not for

others?

Link to tweet

"Suck it up".. Really?

[Amishman]

162. The lack of firm rebuke from our leadership was part of the problem

When someone strays far enough from the path set by the party, they need to be firmly and publicly rebuked.

This isn't just for progressives / populists, this should go for the Manchins of the party too (though I do understand the need make some exceptions and play nice with him right now due to the unusual knife's edge balance of power in the Senate)

[uponit7771]

163. No it wasn't, Dem leadership ... DID ... define the party on the issue. Is everyone listening to ...

... FAUX news on this issue ?!

The problem was lack of message down ballot, that's what the polling and post mortems tell us but hey ...lets not look at the data its much easier to blame our Ls on the slogan of the oppressed.

[Amishman]

165. 'slogan of the oppressed'?

What do you mean by this phrase? I see you repeating it quite a bit

I am not sure who qualifies as oppressed in this country. We might have inequality and plenty of problems, but I don't think it meets the definition of oppression.

Examples of real oppression would be:

women in much of the middle east and parts of Africa
the Uighurs in China
The Kurds in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria
The Palestinians in Israel

No group in the US comes close to that

This might seem to be a change of subject, but stay with me.

This lack of clarity and using language too strong for the underlying reality is the exact same reason 'Defund the Police' was such a weapon against us. It opens the argument for easy criticism and undermines credibility

[StarfishSaver]

167. Seriously?

[uponit7771]

179. Means the people who are oppressed came up with it, where do ***YOU*** think DTP came from?

[StarfishSaver]

188. They don't seem to think anyone in America is oppressed ...

[LetMyPeopleVote]

222. That is not how campaigns work in the real world

The GOP is already running ads using the "defund the police" slogan against 2022 candidates

Link to tweet

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/gop-launches-ads-highlighting-defund-the-police-to-target-vulnerable-2022-dems/

The National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) has begun running digital ads targeting Democrats for “defund the police” policies and rhetoric in districts they have deemed “vulnerable” in the upcoming midterms.

The ads will run in five Democrat-held districts the GOP hopes to flip in 2022 on their way to a House majority.

The ad highlights left-wing calls to defund the nation’s police departments, and highlights ‘Squad’ member Rep. Rashida Tlaib‘s demand to abolish prisons.

From Yahoo News, NRCC Spokesman Michael McAdams said of the ad push,

“We are going to ensure every voter knows Democrats want to Defund the Police. Whether it’s Rashida Tlaib demanding an end to policing and incarceration, or Maxine Waters encouraging rioters to engage in violence, Democrats can’t be trusted to stand with law enforcement and keep Americans safe.”

.....The content of the ads comes by way of nationally-recognized Democrats.

In the aftermath of the tragic shooting of Daunte Wright in Minneapolis, far-left Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MN) proclaimed the shooting wasn’t an accident and demanded abolition of policing and incarceration.

[CrispyQ]

10. What we need is better framing.

If only our side believed in marketing, but alas, we don't. The right kicks our ass on messaging ALL THE TIME.

Instead of defund the police, we need to succinctly, & cleverly, sum up this message:

[Deuxcents]

16. I agree

I deleted my post as you are saying the same as I was thinking..only better. Ty

[treestar]

145. That is very unclear

the media works against the Democrats anyway. The argument that the Dems are bad at messaging doesn't account for that. And it's been said for decades, so if it really were the problem, it would be addressed. Or the voters just don't want to hear what the message actually is.

[CrispyQ]

150. Yeah, the media works against us, so we should work harder to counter their message, but we don't.

It's been said for decades because we've ignored marketing for decades. The right has more successfully defined our side than we have. Tax and spend dems. Gun-hating libs. Socialists. Communists. Baby killers. At the same, time they've touted themselves as fiscal conservatives, the party of personal responsibility, family values, and God.

[treestar]

194. Then what do we do

Call them fascists? Sexists? Racists? That does not seem to work as well. What would work better - hard-hearted, no values other than money, shallow minded? Sanctimonious?

Tout as - fiscal responsibility, socially caring, concerned for the environment?

How are we not doing this? We try to be positive. We usually had faith that really bad people just wouldn't rise to leadership. Trump wrecked that faith.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Who is talking about "defund the police" ... other than a few people who will be lightning rods

regardless what they say or do - and the people who keep bringing it up and making a big deal of it?

[ripcord]

21. A few lawmakers are

And that is all it takes to generate talking points, I agree with one of the posters above, we need to reframe that slogan.

[StarfishSaver]

23. Who?

Please be specific.

And do you really think if these few people never mention it again - or had never said it in the first place - that Republicans would lay off?

The bottom line is that we need to stop blaming Democrats for Republican lies - lies that they will tell regardless WHAT any Democrat says or does. Spending a lot of time lecturing and tone policing Democrats is a waste of energy and diverts attention from the real issues.

Democrats are not going to have trouble getting elected because some other Democrats say "Defund the Police." That's an excuse and a diversion. And, in my view, anyone who claims they didn't vote for a Democrat because some random Democrat in another part of the country may have at some point said, "Defund the Police" is lying. They were going to vote the way they were going to vote anyway and are just making up an excuse.

[Bettie]

106. +10000

Especially the people who say "well this one slogan at a protest made me vote for the Republican"...yeah, not so much.

Their mind was made up before the first ballot was cast.

There are very few true independents, most of those who are registered as such always vote the same way...either R or D.

[uponit7771]

114. "That's an excuse and a diversion." 👈🏾👈🏾👈🏾 THIS!! Dems have weak assed messages that don't ...

... talk to People Of Color as much as they should, we need to fix that and stop making excuses about slogans.

Campaigns that were able to reach constituents with local messages – especially incumbents who could point to specific legislative wins – fared best

[LetMyPeopleVote]

224. GOP thanks Democratic congresswoman for 'defund the police' message

Bush's statements will be easy to make into attack ads

Link to tweet

WASHINGTON (SBG) — Republicans could barely contain their enthusiasm after freshman Democratic Rep. Cori Bush of Missouri handed them a messaging victory on an issue they anticipate will help the GOP retake Congress in 2022.

In an interview with CBS Thursday, Bush called to defund the police while acknowledging spending $700,000 on personal security.

"I'm going to make sure I have security because I know, I have had attempts on my life and I have too much work to do," she said. "So, suck it up. And defunding the police has to happen. We need to defund the police and put that money into social safety nets."

Link to tweet

.....Just hours after Bush's interview, the House Republican campaign arm released a "thank you" message alongside a new attack ad urging voters to oust Democrats in November 2022.

"We want to thank Cori Bush for reminding everyone [that] Democrats are the party of Defund the Police," said National Republican Campaign Committee spokesman Michael McAdams. "While violent crime ravages communities, Democrats are spending campaign dollars on private security for themselves."

[StarfishSaver]

231. Oh, NO! Not the ADS!!! Well, then, I guess we're just doomed, aren't we?

Why even bother to campaign now that Cori Bush has spoken and ruined Democrats' chances in races across the country?

Or, could it be that Republicans are selling wood tickets because they know Democrats will fall for it, freak ourselves out and eat our own, like we often do.

Republicans: Boo!
Democrats: AACCKKKK!!!
Republicans:

[hunter]

25. Just tell the Republican noise machines to fuck off.

They're always blathering on about something.

Masks, electric cars, guns, climate change...

Arguing with stupid people is pointless.

[Boydog]

33. You are totally missing the point. The defunding the police

message makes democratic candidates look like anarchists in the eyes of voters. Try holding on to both houses of Congress while running as Socialistic anarchists, see how that works.

[hunter]

45. That's totally my point.

If it wasn't "defund the police" it would be some other stupid shit, like "they want to take away our guns!"

I myself may be a socialist and a radical environmentalist but my politics are entirely practical.

In the primaries I voted for Kamala Harris, and in the election Biden Harris. I'm a hugely enthusiastic about the Biden / Harris administration.

You don't see either of them saying "defund the police" do you?



Like I said, Republicans just make noise and stupid people listen. There's no changing that.

Thankfully the majority of people have some common sense. Overall the problem is they don't always vote, or the fuck-off republican actively make it difficult for them to vote.

That's the problem our party has to overcome.

Personally, I want the Republican Party to die. I'll support the Democrats I believe will win to make that happen.

[Boydog]

51. Before we can do the work of the Dems

we have to win elections. We are not going to win elections by validating Republican talking points. James Carville has long said that and he is right.

[StarfishSaver]

56. If a candidate somewhere in middle America loses their race because Cori Bush answered a question

about "Defund the Police," slogans aren't the problem.

The first step is to get better candidates.

Maybe Carville can stop running his mouth on teevee and selling books and get to work actually helping to do that.

[Boydog]

78. With the changes in voting laws we are facing enough of a challenge.

in mid terms. Bush could have answered the question to lend support to the idea of channeling police funds into community relations, easing conflict, enforcing police accountability and ways to make sure police who violate standards are not allowed to serve. Her” I’m in favor of defunding the police” statement was really unfortunate.
Hopefully the party can go to work and get this shorn up.

[hunter]

63. I personally don't have a lot of respect for the police...

... or the fucking fascist who fly the blue line flag.

Oh and fuck television news and opinion as well.

But I'm not running for office.

There's no such thing as "validating Republican talking points."

Like I said, it's just noise, and the best thing to do is tell them to fuck off.

Biden is very good at that. He doesn't quite say "fuck off" directly, but it's obvious he doesn't have any tolerance for that noise.

[StarfishSaver]

92. "Republicans just make noise and stupid people listen"

And a whole bunch of Democrats tell other Democrats (usually women of color) to shut up because Republicans make noise and stupid pepe listen.

[StarfishSaver]

47. Cori Bush talking about Defund the Police does not make every other Democrat look like an anarchist

Funny how we never hear moderate Democrats told to shut up with their more pragmatic, middle of the road messaging because it might offend anyone in a blue state or make them think that all Democrats are right wingers. Because that would be stupid - just as stupid as telling progressive Democrats to moderate their messages in order not to freak out conservative voters in districts thousands of miles away from them.

[empedocles]

58. Rep. Clyburn, given much credit for electing Biden President, has tried to

make clear, with many Dems backing him on his point - 'Defund the Police' cost critical votes in November.

[Though it may play better in very blue districts - though apparently not, even NYC Mayor's race].

[StarfishSaver]

64. I disagree with him about this.

Moreover, Defund the Police is NOT being discussed widely in any Democratic circles of campaigns. But anyone here who thinks they can stop every single Democrat from ever uttering the phrase, should get a job at the DNC since that kind of influence would be very valuable.

[empedocles]

67. Biden did not use DF police at all. Still hasn't touched. Biden won the WH.

DF hurt in reddish districts that were lost - it so seems.

[StarfishSaver]

83. So obviously, other Dems using the term does not necessarily hurt all other Dems

Thank you for proving my point.

Biden didn't say it and he won. Cori Bush and AOC said it and they won. Some candidates didn't say it and they lost. Some candidates said it and they lost.

If a Democrat thinks saying "Defund the Police" will hurt them, they shouldn't say it. And if they are a strong enough candidate, the fact that some other Democrat somewhere in the country says it won't hurt them, as proven by your example.

[uponit7771]

128. No it didn't, there's no polling proof DTP was a ***DECIDING*** factor in split districts in 20

[uponit7771]

84. +1

[KG]

32. I lulzd

[gulliver]

35. Dems oppose DTP completely and need to say so in proportion to Republican lies against us

Republicans are just lying, but that doesn't mean we can fight them by simply being "on the record" against DTP. We have to repeatedly denounce DTP as often as the Republicans lie about us and say we're for it.

[uponit7771]

87. ... or getting a message that overrides any negative affects from the outcries of the oppressed?!

no really, who are we trying to save votes by telling dem voters to be more quiet?

thx in advance

[aocommunalpunch]

37. Say what?

Dems who voice this message are for all intents and purposes, Republicans.

[Boydog]

41. They are playing into the hands of Republicans

by helping to foster the Republicans image of us as radical extremists. Hence, they do the work of the Republicans.

[StarfishSaver]

53. No. The people who accept the right wing Republican frame and tone police

Democrats based on GOP lies are playing into Republican hands.

This thread is a perfect case in point.

[uponit7771]

81. +1, only 64% of democrats think voter suppression is a major issue (link) because democratic ...

... messaging infrastructure is counter productively still trying to capture .5% of white voters and losing 20% of voters of color.

Dems can't blame outcries of the oppressed on this cluster fuck in messaging when it comes to vote denial and nullification.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/21/monmouth-poll-americans-back-both-early-voting-voter-id-requirements/7774904002/

[aocommunalpunch]

69. LMAO

You can make that argument about anything the Republicans will say. Peu importe.

[brush]

129. To be more precise, they're helping republicans.

[StarfishSaver]

54. It's a dumb slogan that is getting much more oxygen and exposure because Dems keep making a big deal

of talking about how awful it is.

Republicans live watching Democrats yell at each other - especially when it's Democrats yelling at progressive women of color and telling them to shut up.

[empedocles]

60. republicons make it a much bigger deal.

[uponit7771]

117. but dem messages permeates their distraction right !? Right ?!

[uponit7771]

99. EXACTLY !!! A line in the 2nd post mortem report say nearly same thing word for word ...

Its not that DTP is a perfect slogan, it isn't, but dems don't have a message that permeates enough that GQP mentions of it is a distraction right now.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/2020-postelection-analysis/871b6e27d1b7c544/full.pdf

Candace Valenzuela’s polling in TX-24 showed that attacks related to Defund the Police weren’t any more impactful than other attacks, but the candidate reported that “people are missing the forest for the trees” and suspected these attacks were more pernicious and damaging than polling indicated

[LetMyPeopleVote]

238. We lost a number of races in 2020 that we should had won

This idiotic meme killed a ton of good candidates. We lost a ton of races that we should have won.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Susan Collins was re-elected due to this stupid slogan

Link to tweet

[StarfishSaver]

240. I call BS on this

Notwithstanding the fact that My Rap Playlist is Ruined thinks otherwise.

And Jim Carville needs to get his story straight. If Biden won despite being accused all day and night of wanting to Defund the Police - because, as Carville admits, he had a strong message - then strong messaging could have overcome the lie in these races.

He can't on the one hand claim that Defund the Police lost these races for candidates and then on the other try to counter the accusation that those candidates didn't have strong messages by pointing to Biden and claiming his message was strong.

But think whatever you want. I'm tired of discussing it - especially since some of y'all are now just talking in circles.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

241. That is your uninformed opinion. I trust the exit and other polling and the DNC autopsy

Here are some polling that shows that this slogan did hurt Democratic candidates
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15715643
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15715652
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15715838
There is more polling that I used on other threads https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15391238 and https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15391364

I really like this polling https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougschoen/2020/11/17/new-post-election-poll-reveals-how-democrats-leftward-movement-cost-the-party-in-the-2020-election/?sh=403ab6b4675f

An in-depth post-election poll, which was conducted among 1,000 national respondents on November 8th - 9th, 2020 by my firm, Schoen Cooperman Research (SCR), suggests that the Democratic Party is seen as too left-wing and out-of-touch, while the Republican party is seen as striking a more appropriate balance, and as ideologically closer to the electorate.

Ultimately, the election results taken together with our survey findings show that it was the Democratic party’s movement to the left that represents a clear drag on their level of support and a potential problem going forward for the party both in governing and in the 2022 midterm elections. Accordingly, a majority (62%) of SCR’s survey respondents take Joe Biden’s likely victory as a mandate for centrist policies, compromise, and coming together with Republicans; as opposed to a mandate for Biden to pursue progressive policies (28%)......

Not only did Biden’s narrower-than-expected victory not coincide with the blue-wave that Democrats anticipated in down-ballot races, but our findings also suggest that Donald Trump would have been reelected, most likely easily, if not for the coronavirus pandemic and the economic downturn that followed. Trump actually overperformed in most battlegrounds and ran close margins in lean-Democrat states like Wisconsin and Michigan, where Biden held wide polling leads in months prior.

SCR’s survey findings also suggest that most voters did not see a clear Democratic agenda; moreover, Democratic candidates were hurt by their party’s associations with far-left attitudes and movements—in particular, the movement to defund the police.

By a 12-point margin, 35% to 23%, respondents said that the movements across the country to defund the police made them less likely to vote for Democrats. Likewise, by a 12-point margin, 32% to 20%, respondents also said that these movements made them more likely to vote for Republicans.

The DNC did an autopsy and it is clear that this slogan hurt candidate
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/07/election-report-sends-democrats-warning-outreach-voters-color/7585820002/

As a result of the messaging issues, the report argues, Republicans were able to blunt at least a dozen Democratic wins last year by anchoring liberal candidates to more far-left ideas, such as the defund police movement.

"In the absence of strong party branding, the opposition latched on to GOP talking points, suggesting our candidates would 'burn down your house and take away the police,' " the report says.....

That also gave GOP candidates a window to seize a narrative with attacks related to "radical socialists" or "defund the police" based on the series of national protests last summer around controversial police shootings of African Americans.

Congressional races that saw attack ads by Republicans pummeling Democrats with a drumbeat of "law and order" or "socialism" saw a higher share of people of color voters supporting the GOP candidate, according to the report. None of the candidates included in the report's analysis supported defunding the police, but the study says nearly all were targeted with paid attack ads claiming they did.

That issue has sparked an internal debate among Democrats for months, with moderates blaming more activist-minded or progressive national figures for going too far to the left.

"Look, there are people in the Democratic coalition who think we should literally dismantle police departments and not have them," political strategist Matt Bennett, a Third Way co-founder, said in an interview Monday.

See https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/07/election-report-sends-democrats-warning-outreach-voters-color/7585820002/

That also gave GOP candidates a window to seize a narrative with attacks related to "radical socialists" or "defund the police" based on the series of national protests last summer around controversial police shootings of African Americans.

Congressional races that saw attack ads by Republicans pummeling Democrats with a drumbeat of "law and order" or "socialism" saw a higher share of people of color voters supporting the GOP candidate, according to the report. None of the candidates included in the report's analysis supported defunding the police, but the study says nearly all were targeted with paid attack ads claiming they did.

That issue has sparked an internal debate among Democrats for months, with moderates blaming more activist-minded or progressive national figures for going too far to the left.

"Look, there are people in the Democratic coalition who think we should literally dismantle police departments and not have them," political strategist Matt Bennett, a Third Way co-founder, said in an interview Monday.

I agree with the autopsy that the party needs better messaging. Part of that messaging needs to be agreement to not promote stupid concepts like "defund the police".
The solution suggested by this autopsy is strong branding which means shutting the Squad up and keep the Squad from declaring that "defunding the police" is a good policy. For example, I had three friends running for office and a couple of GOP PACs ran effective ads using members of the Squad promoting defund the police. For the autopsy to work, we need a clear message which means keeping the Squad from making ads for GOP PACS.

If you have authority for your claim, please provide it

[brooklynite]

48. Exclusive poll finds Detroit residents far more worried about public safety than police reform

Amid a jump in violent crime in this and other cities nationwide, Detroit residents report being much more worried about public safety than about police misconduct, a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University/Detroit Free Press Poll finds.

By an overwhelming 9-1, they would feel safer with more cops on the street, not fewer. Though one-third complain that Detroit police use force when it isn't necessary – and Black men report high rates of racial profiling – those surveyed reject by 3-1 the slogan of some progressives to "defund the police."

"It's scary sitting in the house, and when you go outside to the gas station or the store, it's possible someone will be shooting right next to you," said Charlita Bell, 41, a lifelong Detroit resident who was among those called in the poll. Last year, when her car was hit by stray bullets during a shopping trip, she hurried home rather than wait for the police for fear the shooter might return.

"It's scary sitting in the house, and when you go outside to the gas station or the store, it's possible someone will be shooting right next to you," said poll respondent Charlita Bell, 41, who has lived in Detroit all her life.
"It's always some random shootings," sighed Rita Gibbs, 70, who is so distressed she hates to turn on the news these days. "I just can't stand it."

The Detroit survey was the second in a series called CityView, a project by the USA TODAY Network and the Suffolk University Political Research Center exploring attitudes of residents in major American cities toward policing, public safety and community. The first poll, which was taken in Milwaukee last month, found broad dissatisfaction with law enforcement practices there.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/07/25/detroit-police-reform-public-safety-defund-suffolk-poll/8001468002/

[Elessar Zappa]

102. So there shouldn't be police reform then?

That’s a ludicrous position, given the abuses heaped upon poc by police.

[brooklynite]

132. Perhaps POC should be allowed to decide what they want?

[leftyladyfrommo]

59. KCMO. That's what has got a lot of people going here.

I don't even know if it's true.

Adding more police on the streets would be a positive thing. We have a lot of petty crimes that go unaddressed by the police. No one gets hurt but people lose a lot and it's scary and expensive.

[Bettie]

73. I'm trying to understand how you think you will accomplish

getting her to stop saying something you don't like by posting it here.

I'm not Cori Bush and the people who say that they are politically connected around here tend to think, well, not very well of her and are clearly not working for her.

So, I'm not sure how this accomplishes your goal of telling this Black woman to sit down and shut up.

[NurseJackie]

79. I agree. Even though we can't stop every idiot from uttering the phrase...

... if we discourage that type of harmful rhetoric, then the less often it's heard by the public then the less opportunities there are to use it against Democrats. Fortunately there aren't a lot of Democratic politicians promoting that nonsense... but UN-fortunately, when you hear about it, it's coming from high-profile politicians who should know better.

[uponit7771]

82. How is the outcry of the oppressed overriding dem message against GQP treason? tia

[NurseJackie]

91. Lulz.

[uponit7771]

96. Reality makes some people do just this

[NurseJackie]

97. No.

[empedocles]

85. Just overheard, I think it was Malcolm Nance on a Maher HBO repeat show, say,

'defund the police is a wokeness problem'. Maher agrees.

[NurseJackie]

93. I enjoy reading his thoughts and hearing him speak.

Thanks for the info.

[GoodRaisin]

100. Not too long ago I had a Trumper ask me if I was was worried about Democrats defunding

Last edited Sun Aug 8, 2021, 01:12 PM - Edit history (1)

the police. He doesn't even know who Cori Bush is.

My answer was to point out to him that not only was it NOT the Democratic Party's message, which our leader has said on multiple occasions he is not for defunding police, but that Republican's so called "police support" is fake, and hypocritical, as evidenced by their horrible treatment of the Capitol police in connection with the January 6 riots. I also told him that wedge issue lies like this are pushed 24/7 on Fox News to get him to vote against his own interests, like the 2017 tax cut for the rich that he got none of.

Once "defund the police" was said the first time it went into the Fox News 24 hour cycle of lies like everything else Fox lies about. So, whether Cori Bush says it or not, it's already there to stay, and every time they bring it up is an opportunity for our political candidates and PACs and Party members to point out the fakery and the hypocrisy of Republicans trying to use this lie against Democrats.

[David__77]

103. Out of curiosity: does the Black Lives Matter talk need to stop too?

…

[stopdiggin]

126. don't be absurd

rank and file voters were very supportive of BLM. Still are to a great extent. But DTP was a sh*tty idea that even a lot of 'supporters' couldn't come around to.

[tonedevil]

134. Defund the Police...

comes from BLM rallies. I heard it at every BLM event that I attended last summer or watched a live feed of. Cities tend to have huge Police budgets. Those budgets need to be significantly trimmed and many of the responsibilities of the police today given to different agencies. This will result in a defunding of the police even if it isn't to zero.

[stopdiggin]

142. you can talk budget all you want

but as soon as you ask people point blank "do you want less cops on the beat in your neighborhood .. ?" - the neighborhoods and districts where the answer to that question is "YES" - is diminishingly small. And that includes 'afflicted' neighborhoods.

(Yes, they would like to see 'other' resources and services too - but not at the expense of response time and police on the beat.)

[tonedevil]

149. Police budgets are bursting at the seams...

not because of patrolmen on the beat. It is the military weaponry used to herd protesters that swell their coffers. I don't say there should be no police just at this point they cost much more than they are worth.

[EX500rider]

152. Not really the military weaponry eating up the budget.

With 97 percent of police budgets spent on salaries, pensions, and benefits, any decrease in police funding will almost certainly result in a decrease in the number of officers.

[tonedevil]

233. If it could be the ones...

I saw in military style uniforms firing rubber bullets into the faces of identified journalists and neutral observers during BLM protests that would be money well defunded.

[stopdiggin]

201. like I said - talk budget all you want

but the bottom line is people don't want less police. As disappointing as that may be to many progressives.

[tonedevil]

232. OK

[Jedi Guy]

203. "It is the military weaponry used to herd protesters that swell their coffers."

Nope. For instance, a few years ago Fort Myers PD got a new Bearcat, which has a sticker price of $750k. Wanna guess how much they paid for it? It was $3400. That's about what they paid in yearly maintenance on their old armored vehicle, so net zero impact on their budget.

The vast majority of that stuff is sold to them by the feds at a tremendous discount, or simply given to them free of charge, through DoD's 1033 Program. You can certainly make an argument over whether or not the feds should be buying these things to hand out to police departments, but these items aren't having any significant impact on police budgets.

[betsuni]

211. Thank you. Thought that was the case but couldn't remember the name of the program.

[StarfishSaver]

137. Some people here have made that argument.

Anything that makes a certain element of white people uncomfortable (DTP, BLM, CRT, etc.) is a trigger for some Democrats.

[JHB]

108. Tell the people actually spreading it, and see how that goes

FOX, Brietbart, OANN, etc.

I suspect they're not going to comply.

[StarfishSaver]

113. They're not the only ones spreading it

They're getting a huge assist from Democrats. And I don't mean the handful of Democrats who are saying "Defund the Police" - I mean the ones who are consistently complaining about the handful of Democrats who say it and repeatedly demand that they stop, thereby elevating and amplifying the Republican misinformation.

[Calista241]

109. I think this "Defund the Police" label was successfully attached to us a long time ago.

Getting rid of it by next year will be nearly impossible, and it's going to cost us the House, and possibly the Senate. It's kind of hard to dispute when cities across the US, led by Democrats, have actually repurposed police funding.

The ongoing crime wave is going to be an anchor on our turnout and enthusiasm.

[empedocles]

112. Agree for the most part. It was launched by the Dem left, who, with a lot of rw help,

ten to propogate, explain, etc.

[uponit7771]

127. No it was not "launched by dem left" that's another RWTP straight from FAUX news itself

[George II]

191. Who launched it, and who are still using it?

[uponit7771]

198. Protesters and protesters along with those who represent them

[uponit7771]

116. WTF ?! DTP will cost us more than voter denial and nullification ?! ... shit, no wonder only 64%

... of democrats think voter suppression is an issue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/21/monmouth-poll-americans-back-both-early-voting-voter-id-requirements/7774904002/

at 64%, Democrats were more likely than Republicans, at 43%, or independents, at 42%, to express concern about voter disenfranchisement, reflecting a concern within the party about voter suppression after several cycles.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

227. Again, you are still wrong. Here is some polling that shows that you wrong

So you support an idiotic slogan that drives off voters in the real world? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-today-ipsos-poll-just-18-support-defund-police-movement/4599232001/

Support to redistribute police department funding has decreased among Americans since August after a summer of protests had erupted across the country against racial injustice and police brutality, a recent Ipsos/USA TODAY poll found.

The call to redistribute police budgets stemmed from Black Lives Matter activists and protesters who called to "defund the police" after the deaths of unarmed Black Americans at the hands of police, such as George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

While some believe defunding the police is a call to get rid of law enforcement completely, many activists behind the slogan intended to make a more nuanced argument for police budgets to be steered toward community social programs so officers were less often required to take on roles better suited to social workers.

Only 18% of respondents supported the movement known as "defund the police," and 58% said they opposed it. Though white Americans (67%) and Republicans (84%) were much more likely to oppose the movement, only 28% of Black Americans and 34% of Democrats were in favor of it.

This was always a stupid slogan.

I am waiting for you to either not understand the above polling or to misread such polling to make another claim that this polling actually supports your claims. Again the article in the OP and the other polling cited does not support your claims.

[Vinca]

111. I totally agree. With that catchy, little phrase we've gifted the GOP with a meme to take

back both the House and Senate. We all know it means devoting less money to current functions and diverting some to efforts at preventing and helping the cause for needing police, but the average voter only hears "defund the police" and they don't like it.

[Sympthsical]

119. The people who think Democrats must forever play defense are bad at politics

And that's all this is. "Republicans might say something!"

Oh my stars and garters!

If we're playing defense, we're losing. We've been playing defense for 40 years, ever since Reagan kicked up shit. Once he and people like Limbaugh turned "liberal" into a dirty word, too many of our politicians have been backpedaling. "Can't be too radical!" Radical according to whom?

How's that all working out for us in terms of environment, health care costs, income inequality, student debt, etc? "Don't want to be too radical!"

Maybe these people who are forever out to please the GOP so they don't get too huffy should just join them already. If you're constantly trying to seek policies and words that are amenable to the right-wing, why aren't you with them at that point?

Either be a liberal, advocate for liberalism with everything you've got, or get out of the way.

Stop telling everyone else to shut up.

[uponit7771]

125. ***THREAD WINNER !!!***

[leftstreet]

133. +1

[tonedevil]

135. Thak you. /nt

[StarfishSaver]

139. Thank you!!!

[StarfishSaver]

147. THANK you!!!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

141. Agree

[StarfishSaver]

148. If Democrats stopped insisting that people stop talking about DTP, that would substantially reduce

the amount of time, energy and oxygen the slogan gets.

IOW, if people want the talk to stop, they can start by stopping talking about it ...

[SYFROYH]

151. Can we add gun bans to the verboten list?

[StarfishSaver]

157. Let's ban every Democratic politician in America from.ever saying anything the GOP can use against

any Democratic candidate in America.

And if any Democratic politician in America violates said ban and says anything that a Republican can use against any other Democrat, let's use all of our time and platforms talking about it just in case Republicans haven't gotten enough mileage out of it on their own.

THAT's how we'll win elections. Yessirree ...

[Cha]

158. FACT CHECK: Reverend Warnock Does Not Support Defunding The Police,

FACT CHECK: Reverend Warnock Does Not Support Defunding The Police, But Kelly Loeffler Has Voted Against Law Enforcement Funding

https://warnockforgeorgia.com/fact-check-reverend-warnock-does-not-support-defunding-the-police-but-kelly-loeffler-has-voted-against-law-enforcement-funding/

And so have these House Reps..

Link to tweet

How's that for DEFENSE!

[JohnSJ]

223. +++

[Politicub]

161. It has, for the most part. The media effect is keeping it alive.

Read some of Marshall McCluhan's work for a better understanding of how media coverage magnifies just about everything.

People with more than two brain cells know that defund the police means to restructure the policing system.

I'm glad there are people like Cori Bush who take the time to explain what she means. It is disingenuous to complain about her and not acknowledge that.

And confrontation is necessary for social progress. Naturally, the entrenched power structure will push back on any threats to the system.

[StarfishSaver]

164. "I was going to vote for the Democratic candidate ...

"But then I heard a Democrat whom I never heard of before and still know nothing about and who's in a state a thousand miles away from here say she wants to Defund the Police, so I think I'll vote instead for the Republican candidate aligned with Trump and Marjorie Taylor Green and Ted Cruz even though the Democrat they're running has never called for defunding the police and says they're completely opposed to the idea" will say no one ever.

[Politicub]

168. I love your post so much.

[brooklynite]

237. "I wasn't sure who to vote for....."

...because I'm a Republican but the Trump supporters scare me. But crime is going up and the Democrats seem to be ignoring the crime problem and I hear they're still advocating "defunding the police". So maybe I'll vote for the Republicans anyway."

[Cha]

180. I don't think that's fair, Politicub

People with more than two brain cells know that defund the police means to restructure the policing system.

If that's what they mean they should say so. People shouldn't be expected to read their minds.

I'm going with Rev Warnock on this.. Not the Loser Kelly Loeffner.

FACT CHECK: Reverend Warnock Does Not Support Defunding The Police, But Kelly Loeffler Has Voted Against Law Enforcement Funding

https://warnockforgeorgia.com/fact-check-reverend-warnock-does-not-support-defunding-the-police-but-kelly-loeffler-has-voted-against-law-enforcement-funding/

And, these Reps actually Did Vote Against Funding the Capitol Police..

Link to tweet

We Want to Hold On the the House Victory that the Moderates Won for us on Health Care in 2018.. Not Lose it on the Stupid Slogan "DTP"

Shontle Brown Won in Ohio and she Doesn't support DFT!

This is what Rep Clyburn had to say about it..

Clyburn stepped in when the rapper and activist Killer Mike, appearing at a campaign event with Turner, said the No. 3 House Democrat had been "incredibly stupid" to back Biden without securing more concessions. Clyburn endorsed Brown and warned that the left's "sloganeering" -- such as calls to defund the police -- is politically damaging.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/politics/ohio-primaries-takeaways/index.html

[Politicub]

187. I appreciate your opinion, and don't disagree.

Thanks for taking the time to write your post.

[Cha]

189. Aww.. Mahalo for your sweet response..

I appreciate it!

[Hekate]

169. No actual Democratic politicians are talking about it are they? Some populist outliers ...

… are going to hurt us a bit if they keep it up — and will ensure their status as outliers.

But boy oh boy do the GOPers and RW media love to hang that slogan on us Dems. Screw the GOPers feelings, by the way.

[StarfishSaver]

176. Ever notice

that random Democrats around the country say stupid stuff all the time, but the only time we have to hear demands that they shut up because they might turn off potential democratic voters is when they talk about anything related to civil rights and social justice - and it's usually directed at people of color?

When was the last time we saw people here demand that Kirsten Sinema or Joe Manchin stop talking because their dumb comments and positions might hurt progressives' chances in other states?

[Hekate]

185. Sinema & Manchin are quite unpopular here at DU, so all the time, really

[StarfishSaver]

186. They're unpopular, but can you point to instances where they're told to stop talking

because they're going to cause Democrats and other states to lose their elections?

They're criticized for their positions. Period. That's very different than what is happening here regarding Defund the Police, Black Lives Matter, Critical Race Theory, and other civil rights and racial/social justice issues, which always trigger swarms of people saying, "SHHH! STOP TALKING! You're upsetting the white folks we're still trying to get to vote Democratic even though they never do..."

[sheshe2]

196. Sinema and Manchin.

All the time not for comments for hurting progressives, but vilified all the same. And no I do nor agree with either of them because of their color.

Sure there are some POC that I do not like one bit, yet it has nothing to do with their color it has to do with what they say. So no, I don't vilify POC for their color, just their words and I am not talking about the stupid slogan DTP.

I am talking about their comments:

-Killer Mike called Clayburn stupid as Nina sat next to him and chuckled and agreed. This was at The Peoples Party Summit, new party they are trying to form to take over the Democratic Party. This group is an off shoot of Justice Democrats and Our Revolution. All working to take over our party and make it in their image.

A Hostile take over...

Link to tweet

-Tavis Smiley and Cornell West said Obama was not black enough and house negro. West threw a fit when Obama did not comp him tickets to his inauguration. He and mom had to watch from their hotel room.

-Nina comparing voting Biden over DT was like eating a half bowl of shit. Said Harris was just a check mark and Obama accomplished nothing.


So yes, I have attacked some people , yet like I said it was not because of the color of their skin it was the ugly color of their words.


So much more, yet will leave it at that.

[betsuni]

212. +1

[Cha]

225. Rt TY for that tweet.. from JDWATCH!

This Disagreeing with the Stupid Slogan DTP has Not One Thing to do with POC.

I can't even imagine why anyone would accuse us of doing that.. it makes No sense.

[PunkinPi]

249. This. nt

[brooklynite]

236. What progressives' chances are being hurt?

If they're in safe Democratic districts (like Cori Bush) they have nothing to worry about...other than a moderate Democrat. If they're in a competitive suburban district, they don't have much of a chance one way or the other.

[StarfishSaver]

242. Exactly

[Cha]

181. Rep Clyburn Warned Sloganeering such as calls to DTP is..

Clyburn endorsed Brown and warned that the left's "sloganeering" -- such as calls to defund the police -- is politically damaging.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/politics/ohio-primaries-takeaways/index.html

[LetMyPeopleVote]

229. GOP thanks Democratic congresswoman for 'defund the police' message

The key evidence that these statement were a mistake is the fact that the GOP thanked Cori Bush for her statements.
Bush's statements will be easy to make into attack ads

Link to tweet

WASHINGTON (SBG) — Republicans could barely contain their enthusiasm after freshman Democratic Rep. Cori Bush of Missouri handed them a messaging victory on an issue they anticipate will help the GOP retake Congress in 2022.

In an interview with CBS Thursday, Bush called to defund the police while acknowledging spending $700,000 on personal security.

"I'm going to make sure I have security because I know, I have had attempts on my life and I have too much work to do," she said. "So, suck it up. And defunding the police has to happen. We need to defund the police and put that money into social safety nets."

Link to tweet

.....Just hours after Bush's interview, the House Republican campaign arm released a "thank you" message alongside a new attack ad urging voters to oust Democrats in November 2022.

"We want to thank Cori Bush for reminding everyone [that] Democrats are the party of Defund the Police," said National Republican Campaign Committee spokesman Michael McAdams. "While violent crime ravages communities, Democrats are spending campaign dollars on private security for themselves."

These poorly thought out statements will be in a ton of GOP attack ads that will be very effective

[MrsCoffee]

247. Fuck that noise.

Divisiveness is more likely to fuck us in 2022. Calling good Dems Republicans because you disagree on one issue is just meant to stir the pot.

Yeah, just fuck that noise.

[betsuni]

248. +1

[Captain Zero]

251. I'm a solid and liberal dem for years and that phrase WILL KILL US AT SOME POINT

I'd even say the first person to put it out there was pretty damn dumb.
Although I suspect the second person to parrot it was a Republican operative who knew how damn dumb that was for Democrats.

Anything you have to explain over and over... is not helping.