General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHave you ever just had a "feeling" about someone that you could not really explain but that
somehow prevented you from accepting them as one of the "good guys"?
I felt that way about J. D. Vance from the get-go.
I saw him interviewed about his best-selling book and, I don't know why, but something about his voice, his appearance, his facial expressions just flashed "TILT" across my consciousness. I actually got that little clinch of anger in my gut as I subliminally judged him to be a dangerous fraud: NOT "one of us".
Goofy?
Maybe, but the instinct served me well.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)I was right every time. Of course OTOH I've met people and should have got that feeling and unfortunately didn't.
When I was much younger I found that whenever I ignored my initial impression of someone invariably it turned out my "gut feeling" was absolutely correct.
no_hypocrisy
(46,378 posts)He looked good "on paper." Respected physician in the community. Dressed in Brooks Brothers suits. Member of the exclusive Tuxedo Club. Read Wodehouse, Amis, and other 20th century British authors. Intellectual. Played golf and court tennis. Drove a Jaguar.
But totally out of touch with everyone including our family. You might say he grew too big for his britches.
I could discern there was something "wrong" before I was 10. Disturbingly wrong. It was more than he was republican and loved Nixon. I listened carefully to what he said, what he didn't say. And I felt a combination of unease and apprehension/fear.
To my dismay, I seemed to be the only one who could see beneath the veneer. Maybe my mother to a lesser extent.
I hope Ohio has enough political will to deny Vance a slot during the primary next year.
Polly Hennessey
(6,827 posts)devoid of feelings. Yes, we are often fooled by the veneer of perfection.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,555 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)You know its going to be bad, but they have to figure it out for themselves.
JustAnotherGen
(32,111 posts)Fraud
Pinback
(12,178 posts)Couldn't get past the bookflap copy.
It's lying around here somewhere. I'm reluctant to donate it anywhere, lest it corrupt innocent minds. I may just tear it up and recycle it, though it greatly pains me to destroy a book.
I guess i could cut out a section through the center of the pages and stash some contraband in there -- I don't indulge in contraband, though.
Maraya1969
(22,541 posts)that because I had a book like that that I didn't want to pollute anyone's mind. I actually cannot remember what I did with it but I wanted to put it in the recycle bin
Pinback
(12,178 posts)You'd just want to place it where nobody can read the spine.
The Vance book isn't as bad as many others, of course. After my father died, I went through his bookshelf. Somebody had actually given him a book by Ann Coulter! (Blecch.) To his credit, I don't think he ever read it -- he was conservative, but not an idiot.
I did rip up the Coulter book and put it in the trash. It was a weird feeling, because in general I revere books. They're almost sacred artifacts to me (much to my wife's dismay!). But Ann Coulter? *shudder* I got rid of it as fast as I could.
KS Toronado
(17,549 posts)Pinback
(12,178 posts)KS Toronado
(17,549 posts)was when Red said "Andy you can't just make a person up", and a lot of that is on account
of Morgan's Freeman's facial expression.
S/V Loner
(9,002 posts)always prove to be right. Sometimes something just seems off to me about the person no matter what others think.
patricia92243
(12,607 posts)say why, but I always felt a revulsion. I had never even heard of sexual harassment.
lark
(23,236 posts)Dreams tell the truth sometimes, I have had 2 prescient dreams in my life. Both times I knew something was different. The first time, when i was around 10 I dreamed about my new step granddad. I dreamed he was chasing my cousin Linda, trying to hurt her and she was hiding and afraid. Then it switched and I was talking to a different cousin who was telling me that this new guy was a rotten apple and not to let him get me alone under any circumstances. Yep, we found out years later that he was a registered child molester and had killed Linda's dog when the dog attacked trying to protect Linda from his advances and her screaming. Before the family figured this out, he was always trying to get me to go somewhere alone with him, I always said no. One time he wanted to buy me a bathing suit, my mom was so outraged. That's when they really started investigating and found out the sordid truth. They should have listened to my dreams, five years before that.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)2naSalit
(87,095 posts)It serves me well.
ananda
(28,936 posts)maybe in the 80's. I never liked him.
When I saw Peter Sellars' Marriage of Figaro set in
Trump Tower, I could see both the aptness and the
irony. That was a great show!
ps. That was Peter Sellars the opera director, not
the movie star.
Marthe48
(17,179 posts)but also to give each new person a chance. I guess that is reserving judgement
TNNurse
(6,938 posts)They said it was fraudulent and essentially crap. They were also southern women who were college literature professors.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)allowed myself to get talked into doing something. It turned into a shit show. Learned my lesson. AGAIN.
Demovictory9
(32,521 posts)Vance believes in "the conservative way of life that values grit, determination, and freedom" and that "economic and government leaders conspire to make life harder for normal Americans." He references American "livelihoods devastated by job loss, addiction, economic turmoil."[31]
During the 2016 election, Vance was critical of Republican Party nominee Donald Trump. In a column in USA Today in February 2016, Vance wrote that "Trumps actual policy proposals, such as they are, range from immoral to absurd."[32] In October 2016, he described Trump as "reprehensible" in a post on Twitter.[33] He also stated his intentions to vote for independent presidential candidate Evan McMullin.[33] Vance later deleted these posts from his Twitter account and apologized for his criticism of Trump in July 2021, ahead of his candidacy for United States Senate. He reversed his earlier statements on Trump, saying that he thought Trump was a good president and expressing regret about his statements during the 2016 election.[33] Vance visited Mar-a-Lago to meet with former President Donald Trump, alongside Peter Thiel, ahead of an official announcement.[
rainin
(3,012 posts)Was he threatened or seduced? I believe his earlier statements were sincere. Someone got to him. IMHO
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Theres money to be made off the rubes.
rainin
(3,012 posts)Captain Zero
(6,889 posts)And he has decided to join the side of the exploiters.
That really sums him up.
raccoon
(31,151 posts)BlueKentuckyGirl
(402 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,922 posts)raccoon
(31,151 posts)BlueKentuckyGirl
(402 posts)Response to BlueKentuckyGirl (Reply #24)
GulfCoast66 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Midnight Writer
(21,922 posts)Captain Zero
(6,889 posts)Just wondering.
Midnight Writer
(21,922 posts)Pinback
(12,178 posts)Wait, probably nobody under 35 gets that, either.
BlueKentuckyGirl
(402 posts)I know what "tilt" means when it comes to pinball machines, but I guess I just didn't see how that applies to JD Vance. Not defending JD Vance; I just don't get the analogy.
Midnight Writer
(21,922 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)without examining him. So I didnt have exposure that might have lead to similar feelings. My casual assumption, based more on the accolades for his book, was that Vance was a thoughtful and observant conservative, seeming moderate.
Fwiw, this thread reminds me that truth brings both conservatives and liberals who value truth, or are currently in a field or society that generally requires adherence to it, together in agreement about many things. There's usually large and strong overlap of agreement based on facts, in spite of disagreements that arise from different interpretations of what it all means and what should be done. And those disagreements are usually also constrained by facts from getting too extreme.
But, during this swamp of an era, I've many times seen, we all have, public figures change from expressing beliefs anchored in truth to lies intended to advance their ambitions by deceiving others Obviously, those who do weren't people of integrity to begin with, had just been posing as whatever was required for people in their previous situations.
Vance is apparently one of those. But whatever he was, he still is. What he says to advance his goals is the only thing that's changed. And there's a lesson for evaluating all public figures in that. Who's the real person behind the words that sound to appealing?
GoneOffShore
(17,346 posts)All I could think was walks like a duck, talks like a duck, but is trying to fool people that he's something else. He is definitely a duck.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)what we now know him to be capable of, that I'd also have seen that he wasn't just expressing a reasonable -- and valid as far as it goes -- conservative view into people born into intractable poverty but instead pushing a dressed-up version of primitive RW dogma.
I've seen that attitude that admits no excuses for their condition in conservatives who've always been poor, btw. It all comes back to the ages-old, and strongly hierarchical, belief in a powerful and good natural order that rewards the deserving and punishes the undeserving.
GoneOffShore
(17,346 posts)You deserve to be.
And unless you knuckle under, and kiss the ring, you're not going to get any help.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a friend believed a big business held NO repsonsibililty, zero liability, for knowingly and repeatedly selling a dangerous product that caused injury to many while being put to its intended use. It was the duty of the unaware purchasers, lower on the societal hierarchy than a biig corporation, to realize and avoid injury. Injury proved the victims' negligence. She wasn't a stupid woman, either.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)He had a blame liberals tone to him and his writing. I never trusted him and saw no need to read his book.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)served me well. And I definitely had that feeling about this guy, and many others on that side of the fence. Its so obvious to me when someone is a phony or a horrible person, I am always baffled when other people cant see it.
JohnnyRingo
(18,714 posts)...and my ears went back on Vance as well.
txwhitedove
(3,937 posts)cilla4progress
(24,840 posts)but did not, on Vance!
Bought it hook, line and sinker!
Movie was crap, tho!
Hugin
(33,251 posts)who the fuck J.D. Vance is.
I'd like to keep it that way.
samnsara
(17,677 posts)..trusted that 'uh oh' feeling in their stomach
wnylib
(21,858 posts)I think everyone does at one time or another. We often dismiss those feelings, then later, when things go wrong, we say, "I knew better. Why didn't I follow my instincts?"
I think those feelings come from clues so minor that it's as if they are subliminal - the way someone blinks at certain times, or smiles, or their voice tone, etc. The smile does not extend to their eyes, for example, but we don't consciously notice the eyes. We just feel that something is "off."
We carry memories of minor past details and nuances from experiences with people that we don't consciously register, but that influence our impressions of new people that we meet.
Sometimes those gut feelings are positive, too. In the 2008 primaries, I didn't know much about Barack Obama until I saw him with Jay Leno on the Tonight Show. Something in his voice, words, or body language told me that he had "it" - a quality of leadership so innate that it said "presidential" to me. I just knew that he had what it took to not only win the general election, but to be a very good president. In her book, Becoming, Michelle describes how people have often reacted to him that way, just "knowing" that he had sone special qualities.
On a lighter note, animals have those instincts, too. I had a cat once, named Merlin, who took either an instant like or dislike to guys I dated, and showed it. Some guys would fuss over him to score points with me. Merlin reacted to their phoniness with a hiss and a swipe at their hands when they petted him, drawing blood with his claws. Merlin's judgments were always on the mark. I joked that he was my chaperone.
jaxexpat
(6,907 posts)It was a sort of an internal quivering which worked out through the skin often leaving chill bumps. Very short lived and vague but always portended when someone was trying to pull the wool over my eyes. The syrupy sweetness of overcoddling falsity, the overexuberance and sickly vivacity of pretentiousness, revealing deeply felt shallow feelings or the overconfident tone of a braggart would usually trigger the response. It pretty much disappeared by the time I was 7 or so. Was most prevalent at 3-4. My sister had much the same responses. We called them the "stupid shivers" since we both thought they were lies which we, at our tender ages, saw as simply stupid. We even got them sometimes watching commercials or the news on TV but the soppy melodrama of "Father Knows Best" was a sure fire source for them.
Skittles
(153,428 posts)I always found him creepy and not at ALL funny.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There was just telltale things that he said during the past.
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