What I don't get is why a lab leak or not makes that big a difference to anyone

[Silent3]

Yes, leak or no leak does matter for how much culpability China has for the COVID-19 pandemic.

But once the disease was spreading, no matter how it got started, every country still bears responsibility for how well it handled the disease, and how well they are handling it now.

For the Trump supporters really into the lab leak idea, it certainly wouldn't help absolve Trump for his abject failure in dealing with COVID once it was here, no matter where COVID came from. Well, okay, in their twisted MAGA minds a Chinese lab leak might absolve Trump, but days ending in "y" also absolve Trump of any wrong-doing for them, so what's the difference other than adding one more item to their already-long litany of insane talking points?

With or without lab leaks, there will be new pandemics in the future, so it's not like, if we find out there really was a lab leak, we can believe we're making ourselves safe by doing nothing more than trying to prevent future lab leaks.

[Hoyt]

1. 100% exact.

[dchill]

2. A distraction from real crimes.

[meadowlander]

19. Off-the-books biological weapons research isn't a 'real crime'?

I don't know what happened but there are certainly non-fanciful scenarios that very much would be crimes that the international community should investigate and hold China accountable for if they are responsible.

We shouldn't let our rejection of Trump and his excuses lead us to be naive about other adversaries. This was the whole planet going on pause for 18 months, 3.8 million deaths and counting, lifelong disability for who knows how many millions more, massive economic and environmental damage. If there is actual evidence that people are responsible for that, they should be held to account for their actions and their omissions.

If the outbreak could have been contained in Wuhan and spread due to ass-covering and smoke-blowing by officials, that should also be investigated.

[JI7]

3. If anything it makes Trump's actions far worse . Because it wasn't just like a flu virus as they

kept saying.

And other than calling it the China virus he didn't do anything to seriously find out what was going on. Biden actually is trying to look into it .

And this doesn't even include all the things before it where he disbanded the team dealing with this and removed people in China that could have had info earlier on.

[hibbing]

4. It's the whole xenophobia and racism their base loves n/t

[The Magistrate]

5. It Certainly Does Not Reduce Dear Leader's Culpability, Sir

It doesn't matter how it began, Dear Leader fucked it up.

Even if it was deliberately set loose as a weapon, Dear Leader still fucked it up.

Whether naturally arisen, leaked from a lab, or loosed upon the world on purpose, this combed-over piece of shit fucked it up to a fare-thee-well.

[MerryHolidays]

6. That is totally correct

But, it allows them to gaslight and say "it wasn't my fault." Any sane person would understand that EVEN IF that were true, and I think we are light years away from that at this stage, it absolutely does not negate the incompetency or intentional harm that trump and the Rs did to 600,000 Americans and the countless others whose lives have been destroyed or damaged because of their failures/intentional acts.

[ansible]

7. So China should just be excused without any serious repercussions?

[Silent3]

8. Where in my post is that suggested? n/t

[Caliman73]

26. There needs to be an investigation into what happened first.

If it was a natural virus, then the practices that lead to it's transmission to humans needs to be studied to prevent future outbreaks. What repercussions should China face for a natural virus developing and spreading in an interconnected world with nearly instantaneous travel? If it was a lab accident where viruses were being studied and then human error cause the virus to be spread, again, what repercussions should China face? Certainly, there should be international oversight into their laboratory practices. If it was a weapon that was deliberately released, well then that would be an act of war and likely the result and repercussions of that, would be worse than the death toll from the pandemic,

Many countries managed the spread effectively and suffered relatively little damage. The countries that suffered significant damage did so, not because of how and where the virus came from and came into contact and transmission to humans. They did so because of weak and ineffective leadership. England = Dumbass Borris Johnson who downplayed the virus and wanted to tough it out. Brazil = Wannabe dictator and Trump sycophant Bolsonaro who also tried to out macho a virus. United States = Idiot in chief Trump, the king of all failsons and fuck ups.

Sure, there should be consequences to China for its failures in notifying people, but if Trump had not taken the pandemic response teams and our best scientist out of China, we would have had much clearer early warning.

[ansible]

32. Australia has already tried that and has been hit with threats of war and economic sanctions

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-03/heres-what-happened-between-china-and-australia-in-2020/13019242

Frankly I think their actions say it all. This is a country that still claims only around 4600 dead.

[Calculating]

47. If china actually made this in a lab then they need to pay

They would have killed as many people worldwide as the Holocaust, crippled many more, and done severe economic damage to the whole world which we're still feeling. Assuming it was a lab accident then they owe the world countless reparations, and if it was intentional....well, let's not go there yet.

[SoCalDavidS]

9. Because They Kept It Covered Up And Then Denied It

If they had been more forthcoming about the dire situation earlier, it may have helped the world.

But we had a MORON "leading" us, so it probably wouldn't have made a difference, and Drumpf would have called it a hoax a little bit earlier.

[speak easy]

24. "it may have helped the world"

and then again it may not. Given what we now know about the incubation period and asymptomatic spread, it is (far) more likely that ithis virus could not have been contained.

We can't go back and do a double blind. The conjecture seems pointless.

[Raine]

10. Could be of help in the future

I think it's always good to have as much knowledge as possible.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

11. I have been trying to figure out why this makes a difference

[rampartc]

30. good morning lmpv

trump dropped the ball no matter who threw it.

[womanofthehills]

12. A lab leak would be a really big deal

It might make nations sign an agreement not to do gain of function research. It might set up higher standards for these labs. Many say the Wujan Lab was doing Bio Lab 4 research in a Bio 2 lab. Our own labs have had escapes and most scientists believe accidents in labs will always happen because someone can always get jabbed by a needle, drop a vial, etc. So maybe enhancing viruses needs to stop. Obama put a temp stop to it in our labs in 2014 and we need to look at that worldwide.

[speak easy]

23. "Many say"?

Who, trump? There are enormous differences between a BSL-2 lab, and a BSL-3, let alone a BSL-4.

[Bucky]

31. Thanks for thoughtful analysis.

There are enormous national security implications to pandemics. We need to know what happened at Wuhan. Unfortunately there are also big sociological and psychopolitical implications here in the US to any cover-up that may have happened in China.

Either way, we should be pressuring China to let the truth get out.

[Blue_playwright]

13. A customer of mine...

Said to me that it isn’t a leak because it was intentional. Not just that but that viruses don’t mutate and each new strain is another being created and released by China.

Then there’s some dude she follows that does EMP pulse things to people who have had the vaccine and they apparently shit out all the nanoprobes that Gates, Bezos and Seven-of-Nine put in the vaccine.

I shit you not.

[ShazzieB]

18. "Gates, Bezos and Seven-of-Nine"

LMFAO!

[GoodRaisin]

14. It certainly matters to Fox News.

They spend about 20 minutes of air time each hour beating it like a dead horse.

[womanofthehills]

15. I think the Dems need to address it

So it doesn’t become a big divide.

[GoodRaisin]

17. I believe they are.

I think I recall several weeks ago that Joe Biden had asked to investigate it further.

[SergeStorms]

16. IQ45 wants reparations from "Chy-na".

At least that's what he said in one of his missives "From the Desk of Loser Sweat-balls", his now defunct blog or whatever the hell it was.

Not that one word he utters makes a bit of difference.

[Pisces]

20. The difference to me would be if they were experimenting with the virus to make it more

Potent. It would also help to know the exact makeup so that we could combat it better. We need to understand long Covid etc. I think it would be very helpful to know.

[unblock]

21. Authoritarian hierarchical thinking. They need to know who to blame.

The foot soldiers in the authoritarian structure don't feel the need to critically analyze policy and such. They completely trust their dear leaders to do that. They see their patriotic duty as to follow orders and to cheer what dear leaders want the to cheer and to attack what dear leaders want them to attack.

The pandemic is a bad thing, they need yo know who to blame and attack. That's all. They don't feel the need to question the wisdom of their leaders if they decide it's China that needs to be blamed.

Pathetic, tribal mentality.

[dawg day]

22. There was a report that blood samples from Fall 2019

Have tested positive for covid, indicating I guess that it was in the US then. Some of the people remember being sick when the blood was drawn. The article didn't have much info, like where these people were and if they'd been in China.

Not sure what it means.

[intrepidity]

25. It matters.

If it doesn't matter to you, then don't bother talking about it.

[Silent3]

36. I didn't say it didn't matter, I asked why it makes a BIG difference...

...to so many people. That's an entirely different thing than whether it matters at all.

[intrepidity]

41. "Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it"

That's why.

[smirkymonkey]

27. Because they need a big distraction to take the attention away from the fact

that President Fat Fuck (sorry, people who have a problem with fat shaming, but he is really just a Fat Fuck) completely botched the response to the arrival of the virus in the US.

It's nothing more than diversion. He majorly screwed up this nation's response to the worst pandemic in a century and that is entirely on him. Where it came from is one thing, but that doesn't absolve him of his complete mishandling of this from the start.

No, this is really about his absolute, total world-class, major fuck-up of a lifetime. He had numerous opportunities to stem the spread of this virus and never did anything but encourage dangerous behavior and irresponsible practices.

[TomWilm]

28. For 15 years US scientists had collaborated with the Wuhan Institute of Virology ...

Apr 2020:

For some 15 years the EcoHealth Alliance, a New York City nonprofit, have collaborated with a leading Chinese virologist who studies coronaviruses that infect bats. The virologist is based at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), located in the city where researchers first identified SARS-CoV-2.

The team has worked to understand how dangerous viruses jump from bats to humans, and to develop tools that could help researchers create diagnostics, treatments, and vaccines for human outbreaks.

...

The research community is now reacting with alarm and anger to the National Institutes of Health’s (NIH’s) abrupt and unusual termination of a grant supporting research in China. The agency axed the grant after conservative U.S. politicians and media repeatedly suggested—without evidence—that the pandemic severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) escaped from a laboratory in Wuhan.

The termination, which some analysts believe might violate regulations governing NIH, also came 7 days after President Donald Trump, asked about the project at a press conference, said: “We will end that grant very quickly.”

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/nih-s-axing-bat-coronavirus-grant-horrible-precedent-and-might-break-rules-critics-say

[betsuni]

29. This should be mentioned every time the subject is discussed and it isn't.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. So We Remember T***p's Reason

This "business genius" cut that grant because "...we can't spend money on people just in case something happens..."
Big companies have resources, all the time, who are doing non-mission-critical work, but are available as triage or firefighters/troubleshooters, should something big come up.
It's a common practice in major industry, especially in manufacturing.
But, since T***p knows nothing about business, he thought cutting these pennies had value.

[doc03]

33. It just another distraction from how badly The

Loser handled the COVID.

[Deminpenn]

34. Thing about the lab leak is that these labs are designed to

create different strains of existing viruses, some of which are highly infectious, deadly or both for research and study purposes. If SARS-CoV2 was one of the lab-created corona virus derivatives that somehow got out of the lab by infecting an employee, then that is an issue for governments, researchers and the scientific community to address in that maybe modifying potentially deadly pathogens isn't a very good idea.

[alphafemale]

35. If the accidental release had happened in a US research lab or many other countries?

I think the exposed scientists would have quarantined themselves.

The news would have been released to the press immediately.

The exposed scientists would have gotten an needed treatment and all would have probably recovered.

It would not have been a government secret and 4 million people and counting would not be dead.

I do not understand why there are defenders of the Chinese government on the DU board.

They plowed people with tanks for daring to try to be free in Tiananmen just like they will squash freedom in Hong Kong soon.

[fescuerescue]

43. Yes if they knew that they were exposed.

If they didn't know they were exposed. They would act normally. Because to the best of their knowledge, everything is normal.


also Not so sure about it being released to the Press...Especially if it the work being done is classified.

[alphafemale]

44. I think they knew there had been an accident

And I think the Chinese lab workers wold have also quarantined themselves if it had been their choice rather than expose their families and communities.

It is the choice every ethical person would make.

People do not always have the right to make ethical choices in countries like China.

In the US or any free press country it would be a news story that lab workers were self quarantining.

You are correct that it may have been classified as to why.

But I doubt a dozen or so people not going home would be somehing that would be secret for long.

[ScratchCat]

37. It makes a difference, but

the reason it makes a difference isn't why the RW media is so fixated on it.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

38. Other people are trying to figure out how the lab leak story help TFG

Link to tweet

[MichMan]

39. Same way that there is a difference if someone is killed in a hit & run vs. passing in their sleep

[tanyev]

40. Remember that early on the Trump Administration encouraged selling U.S. PPE to China.

An odd thing to do if they were convinced Covid was a deliberate attack. For the record, I think sending the PPE to China would have been fine IF Trump had also invoked the Defense Production Act to ramp up production to replenish the supply by the time Covid got bad here. Trump didn't do that until August 2020.

U.S. manufacturers such as 3M Co. shipped millions of face masks to China in January and February — and were encouraged to do so by the Trump Administration, which later criticized the exports when shortages in the United States became clear.

That's according to a new report by the Washington Post, which details how the U.S. Commerce Department promoted the export of N95 respirators and other key protective equipment to China in the early months of the year. The value of masks shipped from the U.S. to China grew by more than tenfold during those months, from $1.4 million to $17.6 million.

China is already a big producer of face masks, but demand spiked as it struggled with the coronavirus that had exploded in its Wuhan province.

The White House had warnings by then that the coronavirus could pose a threat to the United States, But in late February, the Commerce Department published a flier to companies offering a guide on how to quickly sell “critical medical products” in China, the Post notes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2020/04/20/u-s-encouraged-face-masks-shipmentsto-china-as.html

U.S. exports of surgical masks, ventilators and other personal protective gear to China skyrocketed in January and February, when the coronavirus was wreaking havoc in the country where it began and as U.S. intelligence agencies warned it would soon spread.

American companies sold more than $17.5 million worth of face masks, more than $13.6 million in surgical garments and more than $27.2 million in ventilators to China during the first two months of the year, far exceeding that of any other similar period in the past decade, according to the most recent foreign trade data available from the U.S. Census Bureau.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/

[fescuerescue]

42. Ignoring the politics...

If China or any other country has a labs and teams of people that are working on creating Pandemic strength viruses.....

That is something that we need to know.

[SoonerPride]

46. It is eqaully as likely that trump sent infected US servicemen to Wuhan

It is entirely as plausible that this is a US bioweapon that was meant to injure China and our dear leader never thought it could come back to our shore.