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BGBD

(3,282 posts)
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:38 AM Jun 2021

The Democratic Senators Hiding Behind Joe Manchin

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-senators-hiding-behind-joe-manchin

As I've said before on this board, Manchin serves as a tank to take incoming fire for other Democrats who agree with him. Being the bipartisan guy who is willing to stand up to his party help him in WV and it protects others from having to constantly deal with progressive ire.
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The Democratic Senators Hiding Behind Joe Manchin (Original Post) BGBD Jun 2021 OP
That means it's all the more important to whip him into line. lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #1
" Mass protests, infrastructure bribes, Kompromat. I don't care, whatever it takes, we must do it." marble falls Jun 2021 #2
Is Manchin the best Democrat that can be elected in West Virginia? bluewater Jun 2021 #3
You arguing with the wrong guy. If Manchin falls, the basket will elect a deplorible. Manchin is ... marble falls Jun 2021 #4
Actually I am amplifying your point ;) bluewater Jun 2021 #7
Thanks! I'm not used to being agreed with! marble falls Jun 2021 #9
Manchin inserted the lightening rod firmly in his ass when he did his media Politicub Jun 2021 #6
That's true. Sadly it won't hurt him, he's not running for support of any sort of minority ... marble falls Jun 2021 #11
He's self-serving. I hope his influence in the party gets diluted. Glad Politicub Jun 2021 #12
He's self serving. And it isn't as if the GOP care more about minority citizens. Double Whammy. marble falls Jun 2021 #14
Great points, but what do we do with Manchin these next two years? bluewater Jun 2021 #13
Find a unicorn to primary him? Maybe the answer is let him fall so we can stop trying to find ... marble falls Jun 2021 #15
You can ask BGBD Jun 2021 #23
Like I said, no good end game. It's in the hands of the voters and they seem satisfied if not happy marble falls Jun 2021 #25
I can't do a damn thing. That's frustrating. So I vent on DU. Politicub Jun 2021 #16
Thanks for the discussion bluewater Jun 2021 #17
He is necessarily the "best"... since he is the ONLY nt FBaggins Jun 2021 #10
Frustrating turn of events. And no clear way out. Why I would probably vote against him in ... marble falls Jun 2021 #26
He does not. Maybe they are socially conservative, but WV dems have the same needs as anybody else. lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #5
They all seem to be pretty quiet about it right now. It's a sort of reverse NIMBY. They ... marble falls Jun 2021 #8
We all have the same needs. Alway have. Always will. Obviously Manchin is meeting the needs ... marble falls Jun 2021 #22
Persuading with infrastructure projects/jobs for his state is not... brush Jun 2021 #19
why was bdamomma Jun 2021 #24
Name the senators who are hiding behind J.C. Joe Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #18
Is not S 1 a budget bill that can be passed by reconciliation... brush Jun 2021 #21
No. S1 can't use reconciliation FBaggins Jun 2021 #27
I'm not so sure about that. Isn't S 1 the Senate version of HR1? See below. It's 2.3 T about budget. brush Jun 2021 #29
That's not related to S.1. at all FBaggins Jun 2021 #30
You're right. S 1 and HR 1 are not the same. brush Jun 2021 #31
They're pretty close to the same... FBaggins Jun 2021 #32
Isn't HR 1 the infrastructure bill? brush Jun 2021 #33
That explains the confusion FBaggins Jun 2021 #34
No S1 is the senate version of the For the People Voting rights act, not subject to reconciliation Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #36
Yes, another poster explained it to me. brush Jun 2021 #37
If you could name them... they wouldn't be hiding, would they? FBaggins Jun 2021 #28
DiFi has state she will vote to kill the filibuster to f needed to pass HR1. Nt Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #35
Nope FBaggins Jun 2021 #38
She did make a qualified statement a few months ago about ending the filibuster Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #39
I'm afraid you are correct. n/t HiramWisdom Jun 2021 #20

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
1. That means it's all the more important to whip him into line.
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 10:39 AM
Jun 2021

Mass protests, infrastructure bribes, Kompromat. I don't care, whatever it takes, we must do it.

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
2. " Mass protests, infrastructure bribes, Kompromat. I don't care, whatever it takes, we must do it."
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:00 AM
Jun 2021

Situational ethics is usually a GOP kind of thing. We need to be careful before we also embrace it. The big question is: does he or does he not represent his constituency?

I mean, I'd vote against him in the primary, but so what - I live in Texas and I find Cruz and Cornyn much, much bigger turds in the punch bowl right now.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
3. Is Manchin the best Democrat that can be elected in West Virginia?
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:18 AM
Jun 2021

I mean, the man won in 2020 when so many other Democratic senatorial candidates lost.

He's from the reddest state in the union that Trump won by 39% in 2020, that's just about a 70/30 split.

Where would we be right now if Manchin lost? In the minority in the Senate.

And yeah, the other 49 senators matter too, but Manchin is the senator getting the most criticism from our party right now.
Face it, if Manchin decided to switch parties, he would be a shoo-in to stay senator for life in West Virginia.

About the only productive thing I think we can do about Manchin is essentially bribe him with enough "pork" to mollify his West Virginia voters if he pushes President Biden's agenda.

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
4. You arguing with the wrong guy. If Manchin falls, the basket will elect a deplorible. Manchin is ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:23 AM
Jun 2021

... the best we're going to do. WVA votes against its own interests. Shocking to see the poor vote so consistently with the ones who made them poor and guarantee they'll stay poor.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
7. Actually I am amplifying your point ;)
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:29 AM
Jun 2021

I totally agree with your point.

I should have said that up front.

Cheers.

Politicub

(12,171 posts)
6. Manchin inserted the lightening rod firmly in his ass when he did his media
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:26 AM
Jun 2021

campaign about not supporting HR 1.

It started with the op-Ed in a WV newspaper, and continued with a media tour of Sunday talk shows. This was not by accident.

It’s hard to defend him when he went out of his way — and directed his staff — to aggressively oppose voting rights and defend the fabricated history of the filibuster.

This hits some groups — minorities, the LGBTQ community, etc. — harder than those in the demographic majority. It does not help to Manchin-splain to us about how grateful we should be about him being in the party. We get it. But screw the pleas not to criticize his toxic ideas.

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
11. That's true. Sadly it won't hurt him, he's not running for support of any sort of minority ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:34 AM
Jun 2021

... except self-identifying Democrats in WVW.

Politicub

(12,171 posts)
12. He's self-serving. I hope his influence in the party gets diluted. Glad
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:40 AM
Jun 2021

we have a majority, but loathe that grabs the spotlight with praise for putting progressives in their place.

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
13. Great points, but what do we do with Manchin these next two years?
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:40 AM
Jun 2021

Absolutely, criticize Manchin on his positions, many of them deserve condemnation.

But then what?

Rightly raking him over the coals only makes him more popular in West Virginia. But how will such condemnations, suggested mass protests and the like get him to change his behavior now? I don't think that approach will.

Again, please don't think I am defending his policies, but too many people, not you, seem oblivious to the current political reality -- Manchin might be the only type of Democrat that can win in West Virginia now. Sure it would be nice to write off West Virginia and say to hell with Manchin but until we get a secure majority in the Senate, we can't afford to do that.



marble falls

(59,547 posts)
15. Find a unicorn to primary him? Maybe the answer is let him fall so we can stop trying to find ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:45 AM
Jun 2021

... a way to bring him into line, and then do a hard core battle to the death against his GOP replacement's re-election?

There are no solutions. It's in the hands of the Democrats who vote for him.

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
23. You can ask
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:42 PM
Jun 2021

Paula Jean Swerengin about that. She has tried to both primary Manchin and run a general senate election against a republican.....she lost by 40 in each. That's what you're going to get.

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
25. Like I said, no good end game. It's in the hands of the voters and they seem satisfied if not happy
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:48 PM
Jun 2021

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
26. Frustrating turn of events. And no clear way out. Why I would probably vote against him in ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:52 PM
Jun 2021

... primary if there were a candidate to beat him, I sure as hell would vote for him in the election.

I sure as hell prefer him to Cruz and Cornyn, my Senators.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
5. He does not. Maybe they are socially conservative, but WV dems have the same needs as anybody else.
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:24 AM
Jun 2021

And surely they are not demanding that he take away their right to vote!

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
8. They all seem to be pretty quiet about it right now. It's a sort of reverse NIMBY. They ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 11:29 AM
Jun 2021

... don't feel like their voting rights are challenged, they think it's only PoC, BLM, antifa, commies that need to worry.

marble falls

(59,547 posts)
22. We all have the same needs. Alway have. Always will. Obviously Manchin is meeting the needs ...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:26 PM
Jun 2021

... the Democrats who keep electing him back into Congress and don't primary him.

So we've bumped the Republicans down a notch. What are we going to next, purity test of all Democrats?

brush

(55,169 posts)
19. Persuading with infrastructure projects/jobs for his state is not...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:19 PM
Jun 2021

bribing. It's how politics is done. Come on, we all know that.

Manchin so far seem impervious to that or anything else his own party has tried to get him to help pass HR 1. There must be a reason he can't be moved as the that bill certainly has provisions in it to help his poor state.

Maybe the reason he's taken on McTurtle's obstructionist role is because he's in the Koch organization's pocket?

Fiendish Thingy

(16,448 posts)
18. Name the senators who are hiding behind J.C. Joe
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 12:02 PM
Jun 2021

Not any of the following:
Coons
Casey
DiFi
Gillibrand
Tester

Possibly:
Shaheen
Kelly
One of the Delaware Sens.

I firmly believe if Schumer forces a floor vote on changing the filibuster rules in order to pass S1, all of the above will vote to kill or modify the filibuster.

That would leave Koch’s Sucker, along with Kyrsty Curtsy, all on their own.

Note to jurors:
If this were 1960, would you vote to hide posts disparaging Democrats Strom Thurmond and George Wallace, well known segregationist supporters of Jim Crow?

brush

(55,169 posts)
21. Is not S 1 a budget bill that can be passed by reconciliation...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 01:26 PM
Jun 2021

without having to deal with a filibuster challenge? The recalcitrant senators can pass it the same way Biden's rescue bill was passed, a simple majority, 50-50 with the Veep' vote breaking the tie in our favor. Remember the parliamentarian of the Senate has rule it can be done.

The hold up has always been Manchin, Sinema and the rest of the closet obstructionist Dems who I believe will come around if Manchin does as it's not a matter of changing the filibuster rule.

brush

(55,169 posts)
29. I'm not so sure about that. Isn't S 1 the Senate version of HR1? See below. It's 2.3 T about budget.
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:35 PM
Jun 2021
Using a revised budget resolution to take an extra crack at reconciliation to advance Democratic priorities through the Senate appears unlikely during this Congress, given a new opinion from the Senate parliamentarian.

The new guidance, issued to Senate staff on Friday, suggests that Democrats will get just one more try this year to pass a filibuster-proof legislative package to enact additional priorities ranging from infrastructure to immigration policy proposed by President Joe Biden and party leaders on Capitol Hill. If they want to use reconciliation yet again, they'd need to adopt a fiscal 2023 budget resolution next year, but would likely get only one shot then as well.


https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/02/democrats-reconciliation-strategy-dealt-blow-senate-parliamentarian/

FBaggins

(27,250 posts)
30. That's not related to S.1. at all
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:45 PM
Jun 2021

There was a working theory saying that reconciliation might not be limited to usage once per budget year (it's really three times, but effectively once). It wasn't an opinion that changed what reconciliation could cover. This article covers a more recent opinion by the parliamentarian that effectively returned to the once-per-year standard. But that gives us "one more crack" at another reconciliation in 2021... because budget years overlap calendar years.

Infrastructure would clearly qualify. Immigration would be somewhat more difficult (certainly not comprehensively), but S.1. is well outside of what can be done with reconciliation.

FBaggins

(27,250 posts)
32. They're pretty close to the same...
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:30 PM
Jun 2021

… but neither would be able to use reconciliation to avoid a filibuster in the Senate.

FBaggins

(27,250 posts)
34. That explains the confusion
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:37 PM
Jun 2021

Both HR1 and S1 are the “For the People” voting rights bills.

The infrastructure bill can use reconciliation (with perhaps some tweaks)… but that’s a different bill.

FBaggins

(27,250 posts)
28. If you could name them... they wouldn't be hiding, would they?
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 02:32 PM
Jun 2021

The pressure put on Manchin by the left doesn't scare him much (because there's almost nothing that they can do to him), but most other Democrats in the Senate would be risking their careers at this point if they appeared to agree with him on this issue.

As long as Manchin and Sinema are providing cover, they can make noise about how awful the abuse of the rule is on the right and how they would support "reform"... but never anything that would draw unwanted attention.

My guess is that Feinstein is one such... and just look at the number of posts here about DUers being done with her and it's time for her to retire and let the governor replace her.

FBaggins

(27,250 posts)
38. Nope
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 03:53 PM
Jun 2021

She did say that she was open to changes that would keep it from being blocked, but had so far rejected (“not at this time”) actually killing the filibuster.

Her most recent comment:

Asked Feinstein if a 1/6 filibuster would motivate her to abolish the rule:

"I don't see us abolishing the 60-vote threshold. I don't."

Would she vote to nix?

"This is the first time I've heard it. No one has proposed it. No one has talked to me about it. So it's a non-issue."


Also “The Senate is an institution, and this is part of that institution,” Feinstein said of the filibuster. Asked if there was anything Senate Republicans could do to get Feinstein to change the rule to 51 votes, she told me: “I haven’t gone that far in my thinking, because I just know that votes aren’t there to do it.”

Fiendish Thingy

(16,448 posts)
39. She did make a qualified statement a few months ago about ending the filibuster
Thu Jun 10, 2021, 08:49 PM
Jun 2021

If she truly doesn’t remember, then it is indeed time for her to retire.

Regardless, I predict Schumer will force the issue before the August recess, and DiFi will have to go on the record either supporting democracy and voting rights, or prioritizing the filibuster and enabling Jim Crow 2.0

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