If trump issued pocket pardons wouldn't the Biden Administration know?

[padah513]

If he had and since he is no longer President, couldn't they release the information and say who has one right now? Don't want to see AG Garland start rounding up these cretins and we get the Gomer Pyle treatment. Surprise, surprise, surprise! (Yeah, my age is showing, but so what?)

[jimfields33]

1. Good question

My guess would be that president Biden does not know. They didn’t even speak. They had no turnover. I would imagine if there are any they are in a vault somewhere.

[StarfishSaver]

2. He might not know, but AG Garland and his team would know

And if Trump had issued "pocket pardons" to anyone under investigation, they would have been informed.

There's no way people with pardons in their pockets would stand back and go through the stigma, expense, and hassle of being investigated, being subject to search warrants, etc. if they had a get out jail free card.

[getagrip_already]

3. knowing trump....

He would hold onto them for future profit. The recipients may not even know. Hey Rudy, I might have signed a pardon for you before I left office, but I need a favor..........

[StarfishSaver]

4. If Rudy had a pardon, it would have been invoked by now

There's no way he would be going through all of this if he had a pardon.

But that said, if Trump issued a "pocket pardon" (which I don't think are a thing anyway) and is still holding onto it, it's not a valid pardon because it has to be delivered to and accepted by the person while Trump has the power to issue pardons, i.e., during his presidency. Writing down "I'm pardoning Rudy" but not giving it to him while he's still president isn't a pardon. It's just a note.

[getagrip_already]

5. Hmmm, ill have to leave that to legal scholars....

The constitution is pretty silent on the process. It would come down to legal history and past precedent I guess.

Hope you are right. But in the end a court would have to decide.

[StarfishSaver]

10. I'm a Constitutional lawyer and law professor

Last edited Thu May 6, 2021, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

I am very confident this is how any court would view this. It wouldn't be a very complicated or controversial analysis for any court. It is highly unlikely that pocket pardons are valid. But it is firm precedent that a pardon is operable if it's delivered and accepted. The "pocket" in the term "pocket pardon" means it's in the pocket of the person pardoned, not in that of the person issuing the pardon.

Imagine if a friend of George W. Bush got into legal trouble for something they did years ago when their buddy was president. Assuming the statute of limitations hadn't run and they were investigated or indicted, W, couldn't just pop up and say, "I pardoned him back in 2008, but didn't tell anyone."

But even more important, he couldn't say, "I pardoned him back in 2008, but didn't even tell him." That failure to deliver the pardon, in and of itself, would be enough to make it inoperable.

[getagrip_already]

14. Great info! Thanks! n/t

[StarfishSaver]

16. ...

[MineralMan]

6. The validity of such pardons would immediately come into question,

if they even exist. Personally, I doubt that any such "pocket" pardons exist at all. Further, I don't think they'd stand up legally. Such a thing would probably be found to be unconstitutional and invalid by the federal courts, including the SCOTUS.

[lagomorph777]

8. +1 It doesn't count if you don't publish it.

No backsies.

[Jose Garcia]

18. There is no requirement in the Constitution that pardons be published

[lagomorph777]

19. But if they're not published, they can't be shown to exist.

Therefore no reason to believe such a pardon is anything but fraudulent.

[Jose Garcia]

21. It would probably have to have been witnessed and notarized

And since it would likely be challenged, it would have to be convincing to a judge.

[StarfishSaver]

23. i doubt any court would ever uphold such a pardon - even the Trump judges

[StarfishSaver]

11. Agreed

An undelivered pardon is just a note on a piece of paper.

[MineralMan]

12. Yes. And further, there would need to be a clear

proof of issuance during Trump's term and a solid chain of custody proven, assuming that Trump handed a pardon to someone to produce later on.

The power of the pardon, it seems to me, is reserved for the sitting President during his term of office only. I don't see some sort of secret pardon, known only to the former President and the person pardoned, standing up to judicial scrutiny.

First, it would have to be some sort of blanket pardon, I'd think. Second, why was it not published during the issuing President's term?

This seems like a very, very unlikely thing to pass judicial muster. I doubt that Trump even did such a thing anyhow.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Exactly!

You explained it very well.

[Wounded Bear]

7. I don't think "pocket pardons" are really a thing...

[gratuitous]

9. I think you're right

I'd rather concern myself with things that are real.

[FelineOverlord]

13. If trump issued pocket pardons wouldn't the Biden Administration know?

Are “pocket” pardons the same as “secret” pardons

[lagomorph777]

20. Yes, or just call them "pretend" pardons, made up after POTUS is out of office.

[former9thward]

17. Yes they would know, and he did not.

Just more rumor for the internet mill.

[kentuck]

22. Would those hold up in Court?

They could have written them up yesterday?

Richard Nixon survivors could have just found a pardon in one of his old suit pockets.

That sounds like a scam from the get-go.