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Sat May 1, 2021, 04:40 PM

 

Would you actually live in a city or town that defunded or abolished the police.

Congressional Democrats want to make it easier to identify and prosecute police misconduct; Joe Biden wants to give police departments $300 million. But efforts to solve police violence through liberal reforms like these have failed for nearly a century.

Enough. We canít reform the police. The only way to diminish police violence is to reduce contact between the public and the police.

Iíve been advocating the abolition of the police for years. Regardless of your view on police power ó whether you want to get rid of the police or simply to make them less violent ó hereís an immediate demand we can all make: Cut the number of police in half and cut their budget in half. Fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people. The idea is gaining traction in Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles and other cities.




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html


I get the feeling that many people who want to abolish the police would not actually be willing to live in the areas where this would take place. It seems like an easy thing to espouse when living in your low crime diverse suburb.

Less an obvious choice if you already live in a place scarred by criminal elements.

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Reply Would you actually live in a city or town that defunded or abolished the police. (Original post)
cinematicdiversions May 2021 OP
blm May 2021 #1
LizBeth May 2021 #3
LizBeth May 2021 #2
StarfishSaver May 2021 #4
sarisataka May 2021 #27
Hekate May 2021 #5
gratuitous May 2021 #8
stopdiggin May 2021 #11
Hawker123 May 2021 #12
Klaralven May 2021 #6
XanaDUer2 May 2021 #7
stopdiggin May 2021 #9
wryter2000 May 2021 #10
Hawker123 May 2021 #13
Cha May 2021 #14
brush May 2021 #15
quickesst May 2021 #16
SWBTATTReg May 2021 #17
CentralMass May 2021 #18
stillcool May 2021 #19
ShazamIam May 2021 #20
dawg day May 2021 #21
Mr.Bill May 2021 #22
11 Bravo May 2021 #23
LakeArenal May 2021 #24
Evergreen Emerald May 2021 #25
marie999 May 2021 #26
sarisataka May 2021 #28
Withywindle May 2021 #29
dsc May 2021 #30

Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:43 PM

1. Some people already do and it's working out great.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/02/06/denver-sent-mental-health-help-not-police-hundreds-calls/4421364001/

Denver successfully sent mental health professionals, not police, to hundreds of calls

Another U.S. city is reporting early success with a program that replaces traditional law enforcement responders with health care workers for some emergency calls.

Previously, Denver 911 operators only directed calls to police or fire department first responders. But the Support Team Assistance Response (STAR) pilot program created a third track for directing emergency calls to a two-person team: a medic and a clinician, staffed in a van from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. on weekdays.

The STAR program, which launched in June, reported promising results in its six-month progress report. The program aims to provide a "person-centric mobile crisis response" to community members who are experiencing problems related to mental health, depression, poverty, homelessness, or substance abuse issues.

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Response to blm (Reply #1)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:45 PM

3. I was talking about Eugene in my post. Least police presence out of any state I have lived and

significantly less aggressive and confrontational.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:43 PM

2. Oregon has to a large extent and works well in Eugene. We have Cahoots that handle mental and

a lot of the social issues. They do not have speed traps nor much incentive pulling people over to hit a number for revenue. Not a huge presence here unlike other states I have lived. Doesn't mean no police.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:47 PM

4. I don't know of anyone who wants to abolish the police

 

Last edited Sat May 1, 2021, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #4)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:21 PM

27. I don't know these people personally

But I take them at their word-






This one I saw today about 50 yards from Mpls 3rd precinct building and can be seen from where my daughter works

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:47 PM

5. That was not what the original slogan meant, but as someone else pointed out: if you have to explain

...your slogan that much, youíve already lost.

It was a stupid slogan.

If the intent is to rethink or restructure or reinvent or move a big chunk of money to social programs, just say so. I will get behind that, and so will many others.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:02 PM

8. So as long as someone makes a bad faith argument

Any idea to improve things automatically loses because the opposition willfully misstates the idea. Bummer.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #8)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:09 PM

11. the problem wasn't really 'bad faith' argument

it was an argument that really had trouble finding it's legs (and real coherency). Bummer.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:10 PM

12. It's not a bad faith argument

 

When the use the exact words and you have to explain what you actually mean. A stupid slogan. Reform policing is so much better but too late now, we already lost good representatives due to it.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:50 PM

6. No

 

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:56 PM

7. no

worked in a violent workplace and was relieved to see the cops more than once. Would also call 911 if I heard someone breaking into my place.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:04 PM

9. short answer is no

Abolishment is obviously an absolute non-starter. And defunding depends a lot on the proposals to have 'other resources' filling gaps (or else, it too becomes a non-starter). The problem is, what people actually want -- is both. They want 'other resources' (mental health, community programs, outreach, etc.) -- and adequate levels of policing. And 'adequate' levels of policing, generally means at least what we have now. There's just not a lot of support, or votes, out there for 'less police' in my town (or state). And that is kind of the 'nub' of the situation.

And, no, I do not want to live in an area that has either no LE -- or substantially less law enforcement.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:05 PM

10. Depends on what you mean by defund

I don't think anyone wants to do away with police. But if you mean, set up alternate services to take care of mental health/addiction issues, hell yes. If they'd had that for Laquan MacDonald, he'd probably still be with us. You could also set up other kinds of interventions for non-violent crimes. Why does an armed person have to give you a ticket for a tail light? The George Floyd incident could have been handled in a non-military manner. Just send a team out to say, "Did you know that bill was counterfeit?" Same thing with the guy who fell asleep in his car at fast-food.

This would have to be re-thunk, if that's a word. But that sort of reform I'd be in favor of.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:11 PM

13. Nope, reform yes

 

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:14 PM

14. No.. Hold the Abusive Police

Responsible.. and Weed them the fuck out. Zero Tolerance.

Don't Broadbush the LOSING "defund the police".. There's a LOT of Good the Police do..

And, don't be saying "defund the police" around Boone, NC where 2 Deputies were ambushed and killed for answering a "Welfare Call". :

We Need to Keep the House and Senate or we can't Do ANYTHING!

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:15 PM

15. I'm a fan of taking away activities from police that other, non-violent prone agencies...

can do like traffic enforcement, non-violent domestic issues, welfare checks and the like. Limiting police contact with the public unless absolutely necessary is generally a good idea. Police have their place as there are bad actors out there who are also violent.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:22 PM

16. Defund the police....

.... as in reallocating resources but retaining a police presence, then yeah, probably. Abolishing the police as in no police presence at all? Not on your life. In that case you would have two choices. Either become what the left has been fighting, as in the bastardization of the Second Amendment, or become prey. Both would be dangerous . The Purge belongs in theaters and on TV, not in my neighborhood.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:23 PM

17. No. Perhaps the better question would be ...

Would you live in a community that required the use of the Police so much, whereas most cases of violence does stem from community citizens being violent?

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:33 PM

19. I have no idea who would like to abolish their police force...

but if they want to do it, I have no problem with it. There's a lot of ways to keep a neighborhood safe that does not involve white men killing black people. To say that what we have is better than nothing is disingenuous.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:36 PM

20. Defund the police, was quite forcefully pushed into the dialogue and weaponised against Democratic.

When in fact there are very few if any elected or otherwise widely known Democratic who are pushing for this.
What is being pushed for is more money for mental health care, addiction recover support (lifetime for some and trained res-ponders to
family disputes and mental health emergencies.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:37 PM

21. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Does it? We can consider things like moving traffic and "wellness checks" and mental health emergencies away from the police to those better able to deal with them without violence.

We can require better recruitment and training. We can restrict the use of weapons and military equipment (remember the TANKS in Kenosha? Huh?).

I'm not sure if anything will work, however, as long as there are more guns than citizens in the country.

In other countries, the police don't have to regard every person on the street as a potential killer, because none of those people are likely to have guns.
Most of us, of course, aren't walking around with guns, but the police seem to train for constant threat.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:43 PM

22. We need to train a new type of police officer.

Far more education and far more training with nationwide standards. Military service should be a disqualifier.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:45 PM

23. I hear Mogadishu is nice this time of year.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:00 PM

24. No but have lived in a country with gunless police.

Now I live in a country that abolished the military.

And the police are fairly unarmed.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:03 PM

25. If I were I criminal, I would.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:10 PM

26. I grew up in Roxbury, a part of Boston, the neighborhood was half White and half Black.

All the children played together. A nice neighborhood without any racism I could see. We had beat cops and never saw anyone having any trouble with them. That was in the late 40s and 50s. Then it changed. We lived in a 2 family house, living on the bottom floor. It was sold and the new owner turned it into a 5 family house. Then we moved to a small town West of Boston. That's where I learned of racism and anti-Semitism.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:28 PM

28. My preference is to leave

The Purge as a movie rather than try it as a social experiment

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:30 PM

29. If there were strong social services in place, absolutely yes!

I've lived in Chicago for 30 years, not wealthy areas either, and I was told from day one, don't bother with the cops unless there's an immediate danger, and don't call them if you're not willing to get somebody killed.

I've filed reports for being pickpocketed and stuff like that because I had to for the paperwork, but in my experience they're never much help.

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Response to cinematicdiversions (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:36 PM

30. There are many things that the police do which they shouldn't be doing

why do cops enforce expired tags on cars? We don't send the FBI when people don't pay the IRS. They send nasty demand letters and threaten and audit and garnishment. Use cameras, put a lien on the car, and if need be, take the car away and sell it. Nearly all traffic enforcement can be done without cops. Why do we send cops on social welfare checks and calls about mentally ill people out of control in their homes? Send people trained to deal with the mentally ill.

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