Gun used in Atlanta murders was purchased *legally* yesterday.

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Tom Winter
@Tom_Winter
NEW: Two senior law enforcement officials briefed on the matter tell NBC News that the gun -- a 9mm handgun -- used by Robert Aaron Long in yesterday’s shooting spree in Georgia was purchased legally and it was purchased yesterday prior to the shooting.

Reported w/ Mike Kosnar
10:18 AM · Mar 17, 2021

Gee, if only there had been a waiting period....

[Dial H For Hero]

1. And had there been a waiting period....

He presumably would have waited for a few days, picked it up, and done the same thing.

[Miguelito Loveless]

4. Maybe,

and maybe he would have thought better of it, or mentioned his plans to someone...

I'll take anything that delays guns getting into people's hands.

[Dial H For Hero]

6. I could possibly see a mandatory waiting period for one's first firearm.

But making someone wait a week or two to pick up their fifth one? What's the point?

[genxlib]

12. I will ask in return

What's the harm?

What is the goddam hurry to have multiple guns that you have to get the second one on demand?

[Dial H For Hero]

17. It's an inconvenience that accomplishes *nothing*.

Example: I'm picking up a firearm today that I bought online and had shipped to my local gun shop. As per the law, I have to have them perform a background check, which will likely take around 30 minutes or less.

Could you please explain to me what public good would be served if I had to wait a couple of weeks to have 28 firearrms in
my collection rather than 27?

[genxlib]

25. I won't bother

If you can't see the problem with needing 28 guns then I won't try to convince you that a little bit of inconvenience is worth the wait.

[Dial H For Hero]

27. Who said I *needed* 28 guns?

I'm never even going to shoot many of them. I'm primarily a collector, although I do some casual target shooting, and I do keep one firearm loaded and accessible while at home.

You still haven't explained what would be accomplished by making me wait a couple more weeks to pick up this particular gun.

[Dorian Gray]

35. For you?

Probably nothing. For someone who had a heated idea to shoot and kill someone? It would give them time to rethink their plan.

[Dial H For Hero]

81. But we're speaking (in this case) of someone who already has four firearms.

Why would delaying their acquisition of a fifth firearm deter them in any way?

[Dorian Gray]

84. I don't know?

why did he go to buy a new one?

Maybe his parents removed the others from him possession because he was presenting problematic behaviors?

Who knows? But it could make a difference.

[Dial H For Hero]

102. Allow me to clarify: the person we're speaking of, getting their fifth firearm, is hypothetical.

There's no evidence (as far as I know) that massage parlor shooter had any other guns. We're speaking strictly of a typical person who owns four firearms, and desires a fifth. What point is served in delaying such a purchase? They already have four otther guns.

[Dorian Gray]

103. Well

Hypothetical guy is same answer I gave above for you. It wouldn't make much of a difference. It may have made a difference in THIS case. Had he had to pause, he may not have gone through with it.

[Dial H For Hero]

110. On the contrary, I don't need any help whatsoever to justify owniing that many guns. Simply wanting

to own them is more than enough justificaation.

[PSPS]

48. Give it up. You can't reason with someone about their fetish.

[friendly_iconoclast]

77. "Fetish"? Are you a licensed practitioner of telepsychology, perchance?

[jcgoldie]

22. The point

...is to keep someone from going out and buying a gun in a fit of rage or stupidity and murdering people just as this guy did. Waiting periods for firearms are a minor inconvenience compared to the potential alternative as proven in this case. The harder it is to buy guns the better.

[Dial H For Hero]

23. I asked what the point of a waiting period was when one already owns firearms

I acknowledged that there was possibly a rationale for making someone wait a reasonable time (say, a week) for one's first firearm.

The harder it is to buy guns the better.

Does that mean making it impossible to buy guns would be best?

[jcgoldie]

24. Does that mean making it impossible to buy guns would be best?

yes.

[Dial H For Hero]

26. Thank you for being forthright and open on this issue.

The standard line from those in favor of increased gun control was, for the longest time, "Look...no one's trying to take any of your guns away. You're just being paranoid."

Then, not too long ago, it became "Look....no one's trying to take all of your guns away. You're just being paranoid."

Now, increasingly, I see many of those in favor of more gun control saying openly, "Look....we're just going to have to take all of your guns."

[Qutzupalotl]

29. ...which is not what jcgoldie said.

[Dial H For Hero]

31. Fair enouygh, jcgoldie said it would be best for guns to be impossioble to purchase, not that ones

currently owned should be confiscated. My point still stands, though. Twenty years ago, one almost never saw those in favor of gun control asserting that it should be impossible to buy a gun. Now such opinions are much more commonly expressed.

[Qutzupalotl]

38. It sounds like you'd prefer they keep quiet.

[friendly_iconoclast]

72. DHFH isn't the one grousing about this thread not being an amen chorus for gun control

It's your lot that seeks to stifle discussion.

[Qutzupalotl]

74. I don't recall telling you where I stand

so maybe take a breath before you tell me about my “lot.”

[friendly_iconoclast]

76. By all means, tell us in your own words where you stand

You have my solemn promise that:

Unlike post #38, I won't attempt to put my words in someone else's mouth..

[Qutzupalotl]

98. Too late, you already did.

And all I said was what the poster sounded like.

[Dial H For Hero]

82. Given that I *thanked* the poster for being open about how they felt about guns, what exactly

leads you to that conclusion?

[Qutzupalotl]

97. Because you sound surprised that their views are openly expressed

compared to a few decades ago, when they dared not speak.

[Dial H For Hero]

99. I'm not surprised. Gun control at the federal level has been a loser of an issue for decades.

It's hardly surprising that some of those in favor of it will finally say "To hell with it, just make all guns illegal".

But the fact is, it was quite rare for anyone to espouse such sentiments years ago, even with the anonymity of the Internet. I can't count the number of times someone would say "No one wants to take your guns!". Today...not so much.

[Qutzupalotl]

107. Okay, now I understand.

Thanks for the respectful dicussion.

[Progressive Jones]

80. Any gun purchase should involve a background check, even if the guy owns a hundred already. nt

Nothing in the 2nd Amendment prohibits that.

[Dial H For Hero]

83. We're speaking waiting periods, not background checks.

[Progressive Jones]

86. Same thing. I see the waiting period as part of the check. nt

[Dial H For Hero]

95. 40 out of 50 states don't having waiting periods, so it's normally *not* part of the check.

[Bettie]

30. If you have four others sitting at home

why is a waiting period for number five an issue?

Too many things to shoot and not enough guns?

[Dial H For Hero]

32. At the risk of repeating myself, it accomplishes nothing, and it's an inconvenience.

It can also add to the cost of a gun. Suppose one is purchasing one's fifth firearm at a gun show. If the dealer isn't local, they would have to ship the gun to a local dealer who would transfer the gun to the buyer. This could easily add $100 to the final price ($50 shipping, $50 transfer fee)

[Bettie]

33. I suppose inconvenience is much more important

than the rights of people not to be shot to death.

Of course, you're right...everyone should just be able to walk out of any gun show or store with whatever shiny new tool of destruction they want, because....convenience.

I'm sure the convenience of gun owners is a huge comfort to the families of people who are killed by gun violence.

[Dial H For Hero]

85. How does making someone who already own multiple firearms wait to buy their 5th, or 55th...

keep anyone from being shot to death? Details, please.

Of course, you're right...everyone should just be able to walk out of any gun show or store with whatever shiny new tool of destruction they want, because....convenience.

When did I assert that anyone should be able to buy any kind of weapon? And please, be specific.

[48656c6c6f20]

40. Picking up a fifth firearm should trigger

A psych eval.

[48656c6c6f20]

53. I don't buy coins to shoot something or someone.

If you collect guns fill the barrels with lead. It still has the same stroking value I am sure.

[EX500rider]

55. Generally altering a collectable greatly reduces it's value.

"I don't buy coins to shoot something or someone" neither do gun collectors, the amount of murders done with antique & collectable firearms nears zero.

[Kingofalldems]

104. Cars aren't made specifically to kill people.

[Dial H For Hero]

91. *Ding* We have a winner! The first post in the thread to conflate guns with masturbation!

[smirkymonkey]

66. +1000

[Dial H For Hero]

90. Will you not admit that it's possible to have a healthy interest in firearms in their various uses?

Target shooting, self defense, hunting, collecting...

[Cirque du So-What]

7. Sorry for his inconvenience

Not sorry, actually.

[TexasLefty29]

8. Yep. Nt

[maxsolomon]

10. How bout 6 months?

Maybe he'd have used a knife, maybe he'd have used a swimming pool...

There are too many of these stories (alienated young males with homicidal intent) to just say "oh well".

[Dial H For Hero]

15. An unreasonable restriction on the 99.99% of gun owners who aren't murderers.

Given that one has a constitutional right to own a firearm (as per the SC), there surely comes a point at which a waiting period is so long as to be unconstitutional.

[maxsolomon]

37. What is reasonable is certainly the question.

GA says 0 minutes, I say 6 months.

I wonder what Anna Bui, 19, a University of Washington Bothell student from Everett, Jordan Ebner, 19, of Lake Stevens, and Jake Long, 19, of Everett would say?

Oh, right, we can't ask them; they're dead because 19 year old Allen Ivanov bought a MSSA, waited WA's mandated 10 days, passed a background check, read the instructions in his car outside a party they were at, and then killed them all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Mukilteo_shooting

[Dial H For Hero]

92. And if someone murders someone after waiting 6 months, what then? Make it 6 years?

I do like that at least one poster has had the honesty to say that they want to make buying guns illegal, period. Refreshing candor

[Phoenix61]

46. It is absolutely not an unreasonable restriction.

It seems you’d prefer to be able to walk into your local gun store and walk out with whatever you fancy at the moment.

[Dial H For Hero]

93. I don't just "prefer" to be able to do so, in point of fact I can do that right now.

Colorado, like 39 other states, has no waiting period.

[Phoenix61]

100. It seems you're well suited there. nt

[Dial H For Hero]

101. Colorado's a great state to live in.

[panader0]

56. Hey Dial H For Hero--too bad you weren't there at the first spa getting a "massage".

You could have whipped out one of your arsenal and lived up to your name.
You would be soooo famous!

[USALiberal]

64. Lol, nice try! Nt

[hunter]

79. If you are never going to kill anyone, including yourself, why own a gun?

Ah, but you could kill someone, or a deer or rabbit for dinner, or the coyote who took your miniature poodle, or the idiot kid who broke into your house looking for guns...

What else is there?

If I want to go target shooting I can go bowling. Knocking all ten pins down with one shot is a kick.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

[Dial H For Hero]

94. I might kill someone, although it's extremely unlikely.

There's a remote chance that I would shoot someone and kill them in self defense. Much more likely (though still a remote possibility) is that I either simply wound them or not even shoot in the first place. By far the greatest likelihood is that I'll never point a gun at someone in anger.

As for why I own dozens of them? Because I enjoy collecting them, they've been a fantastic investment, and I enjoy using them safely and legally. And that's really all the reason I need, isn't it?

[Qutzupalotl]

111. Waiting periods do reduce homicides.

Thom Hartmann writes:

Research published by the National Academy of Sciences found that these waiting periods have a substantial impact on reducing murders committed with guns, averaging around a 17% reduction in gun homicides “avoiding roughly 750 gun homicides per year.”

[RockRaven]

2. Remember the Simpsons episode where Homer buys a gun?

"But I'm angry now..."

[aikoaiko]

3. Then again, he might have purchased the gun 7 days earlier and still picked it up the day before.

Or maybe he would have completely changed his mind in 7 days.

[USALiberal]

11. LOL, I predicted you would respond!!! nt

[aikoaiko]

20. We all have our roles to play in this great performance.

[friendly_iconoclast]

41. Indeed, some as sages and some as fools

I'll leave it to the disinterested reader to decide just *who* is playing what part...

[Blue Owl]

5. If the NRA had their way...

Guns would be in every checkout aisle in the "impulse buy" racks as you're standing in line...

[TexasLefty29]

9. But let's arrest him

In a very civil manner, instead of black man who would’ve been shot at the scene. ...No different than the white privilege exhibited on Jan. 6th. Damn shame.

[maxsolomon]

13. In general, Black Men who are killed by the Police are not serial murderers.

John Allen Muhammad being the exception - and he was arrested alive.

[TexasLefty29]

14. It's probably not as much of a statistical issue

As it is the fact that black people aren’t serial killers.
Psychopaths are white, overwhelmingly.

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. Kindly inform us what's civil about a PIT maneuver:

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/spa-killings-atlanta-cherokee/85-d8b55ae6-d3e5-44d2-975c-6334bcd27633

Just before 9:00 p.m., Cherokee officials said he was arrested in Crisp County, Georgia which is off I-75 in south Central Georgia, about 150 miles south of Atlanta. Officials told 11Alive's Jon Shirek they used a PIT maneuver to stop his vehicle.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

16. GA has no waiting period for handgun purchases, FL does for sure, 3 days, like most states

[Dial H For Hero]

18. Actually, most states don't have waiting periods. Only 10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_period

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

28. Thx, maybe i was thinking that because everywhere I lived had them, oops

[hunter]

19. I figure seven years would be a good waiting period...

... along with a mandatory two years of community service among people from different walks of life.

Fail that community service for racism, misogyny, religious intolerance, or any other flavor of hate, then no gun for you.

By the way, I think the second amendment as currently interpreted is fucking bullshit and that gun fetishes are disgusting.

[Dial H For Hero]

21. I figure the chance of such a proposal becoming law to be absolutely nil.

[hunter]

36. Just wait until I'm Emperor of this tiny planet.

Heh.

Until then, in my family's Wild West traditions, fools and their guns are soon parted. That's the universe I live in. The law is something else.

Personally, I don't let anyone I'd care to shoot live in my head. Life is a lot less stressful that way.

It's not that I'm any kind of deeply sincere pacifist (as my mom's parent's were) or that I've never used a gun. I've been hunting, but not in the 21st century. These days I'm mostly vegetarian. That's for environmental reasons -- living lower on the food chain and all that.

I have been a victim of violence. I've been threatened by people with guns. I have a very nice scar on my arm from a knife. The asshole who did that probably would have shot me if he'd had a gun instead. I learned to avoid situations like that.

My dad and my father-in-law both served in the military but refused arms. My father-in-law was a Navy hospital corpsman assigned to the Marines, and my dad was a nearsighted Radar O'Reilly Army medical clerk. They were both at risk of fighting in Korea. By the luck of the draw they didn't.

The Navy wouldn't take me since I was a brash young fool with some serious health problems, but they did offer me a civilian job, which I rejected. Soon after I met my wife. We were science teachers in a big city school district, the kind of place where locker sweeps would regularly turn up guns.

I was never really interested in guns as a kid, but I played around a lot with home brew rockets and explosives, so I do have an appreciation for things that go BANG!

[Phoenix61]

47. Except voting doesn't leave bodies strewn about with gaping holes in them. nt

[EX500rider]

54. People overseas that die in American wars may beg to differ on that point. nt

[Phoenix61]

58. People here who have lost loved ones to gun

violence understand my point. It seems you don’t.

[EX500rider]

59. Your point seemed to be voting had no dangerous repercussions.. I disagree. nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. I lost a co-worker to a crash caused by a drunk driver

I don't blame everyone who drinks, nor do I use said crash as a pretext for demanding the reinstatement of Prohibition

[Phoenix61]

67. Do you advocate for people driving drunk?

What are your thoughts on driving after one DUI arrest? If you get a DUI when, if ever, do you get to drive again? Do you have to have special insurance because you had a DUI? Do you have to attend any classes? No one is advocating prohibition, just some long over due common sense.

[friendly_iconoclast]

70. No, nor do I blame those who drink responsibly for the actions of those who don't

No one is advocating prohibition, just some long over due common sense.

That's a rather vague metric- in your own words, what would said "common sense" entail?

And why should *your* definition of 'common sense' be privileged over anyone elses'?

[maxsolomon]

57. What about Vehicle Controllers?

They make you get a Driver's License, but then ANOTHER license to drive Commercial Vehicles?

And insurance? Every month? And you have to carry proof of it with you?

It's so unfair.

Don't even get me started on FIRE CONTROLLERS.

[friendly_iconoclast]

65. They're not nearly restrictive enough to suit you lot

*They don't make would-be drivers ask law enforcement for permission to drive

*They don't have lists of suitable vehicles that vary from state to state

*They allow people to walk into a dealership with a check, and drive out with a car on the same day

*Driver's licenses are good everywhere, not just in the state they were issued in

[maxsolomon]

87. "you lot".

every mass murder we go through this same dance.

i'd like longer waiting periods to reduce the frequency of impulse-driven rampage shootings - of which this is a textbook example.

that doesn't makes me a "controller" or a "confiscator". we already accept that government can impose controls on firearms: full-automatics are tightly regulated. if you accept that regulation, aren't you a "controller", too?

it's like "you lot" DGAF that rampage shootings happen. "you lot" certainly don't have many constructive suggestions to reduce their frequency. "you lot" are such fatalists.

[Kingofalldems]

34. Wow, thread taken over by gunners. Too bad.

[sanatanadharma]

39. Who'd a thunk it!

I don't need a gun, I simply desire a gun.
Why should I have to delay my satisfaction?
It is the kind of harassment that could make some angry enough to need a gun.

Guns are not killing machines, but they are merely marvelous technological tools for meyhem.
I hope to collect a full set, from a blunderbuss to an armored bus.

about society not personality.

[Kingofalldems]

50. Seems like old times--they used to invade any thread where a gun was mentioned.

[Paladin]

60. Hey, once there's a Democratic President, they're off and running once more.

They were damn quiet, during trump's reign. No big surprise, there.

[Kingofalldems]

61. Boom! Nailed it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

68. The jello that they just "nailed" has already slid off wall

I actually feel bad for them- knowledge of one's own political ineffacacy tend to make people somewhat cranky

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. "(O)ff and running once more." with vague insinuations

No big surprise, there.

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. Don't they realize that these discussions are only for those with the 'proper' viewpoint?

[Kingofalldems]

49. Awww--clever.

[hunter]

78. Lead dust and smokeless powder fumes are powerful intoxicants.

They love their guns.

[llmart]

89. They're also powerful carcinogens.

One more way we can thin the herd. It might take longer, but sniffing in that lead if they cast their own bullets may eventually make them die a slow death from cancer.

[Dial H For Hero]

96. Alas for you, not one gun owner in a thousand casts their own bullets.

Sorry to disappoint.....

[llmart]

106. I'm not disappointed at all...

Alas for you, I know several that do.

[llmart]

88. They're so predictable, aren't they?

And transparent.

[NickB79]

105. Tens of millions of Democrats own guns. Imagine that

After 4 years of Trump, I'm shocked we don't own MORE guns than the Trumpers, given how often they threaten to kill us.

[Kingofalldems]

51. Any comments from the NRA, which is loved by all gunners it seems.

[moondust]

69. That makes him a "good guy with a gun."

He passed all them big gubment checks so he good.

[friendly_iconoclast]

71. I'm sure you truly believe that there's someone out there that thinks that way

[moondust]

73. I'm positive you truly believe

that there isn't.

Welcome to ignore, gunny.

[Rhiannon12866]

108. Twitter followup:

Link to tweet