Vaccination prospects: "You are looking at late July or August if you're lucky"

[DFW]

Since the government here is completely choking on its bureaucracy, as usual, I finally called up the local branch of the Health Ministry (Gesundheitsamt) and asked what our situation was. The guy who answered the phone (to avoid the usual recording, I got a name and number through a little subterfuge) told me flat out that things were going very slowly, and that the 8 or 9 million people over 80 were first in line, as well as some priority categories, such as teachers and caregivers. My wife and I will both be 69 this year, and we would be notified automatically. Just when, he couldn't tell us. He speculated it would be mid to late summer. Maybe.

My wife and I want to travel to the USA in April for the birth of our US-based daughter's first child, and again for our usual month on Cape Cod. We are seriously trying to set up a vaccination schedule there in April, if we can, either in Dallas or New York. We don't know what the rules would be for non-resident non-citizens. Are they even eligible? Would my wife get an exception as the spouse of a U.S. Citizen? No idea. But the EU "just forget it" answer wasn't very encouraging, though not at all surprising. The answer of just about any European bureaucrat to any question is "no."

[moonscape]

1. Although we're doing well with vaccine compared

to Europe, it is still a mad scramble here. There just isn’t enough, and that’s an understatement.

I am clueless as to the rules, but April seems early to me to jump the queue as it’s projected still there will be a backlog of resident citizens who are clamoring for it and to be fair deserve priority, but that’s me.

[DFW]

4. I fully agree: resident citizens do deserve priority. However.....

It takes two to Tango. I know from family members back in the States that some vaccination centers with large allocations were frustrated when people with appointments simply never showed up. They went to one of those centers in the afternoon, and were offered vaccination when those with appointments for that day never showed, and never announced it or called to reschedule.

When those who are clamoring for it are outnumbered by the available doses, and the only alternative is throw away the medicine, I don't see why it shouldn't be administered if there is someone there who wants it.

I'm sure this is due to a distribution plan which can't be expected to predict how many people will actually show for appointments. If the vaccination center is in a town with a population of 3500, it is probably easier to predict the number that will actually show up. If it is in a major population center--my family members live near Newark, NJ--there is a bigger chance of missing a prediction. My family members drove to Newark, asked if they could wait to see if there would be any extra, and lucked out. Since the second doses were planned for every first dose distributed, they immediately got their appointments for their second shot in 3 weeks, which they definitely plan to keep.

We are not looking to take anything away from someone who wants it (although I am still technically also still a resident of Dallas, and my housemates there have all been vaccinated on schedule). But we are certainly not going to refuse a dosage that would have been thrown away if we hadn't been there.

[hlthe2b]

7. I assume the US embassy is only vaccinating its own State Dept. employees?

Might there be any "waiting list" for ex-pats?

[DFW]

8. I don't even know if the embassy does vaccinations

For all I know, they have a reciprocal agreement with the German government, and the embassy personal gets special priority from the host government.

The embassy is at the other end of Germany, in Berlin, near the Polish border. I am in the Düsseldorf area, near the Dutch border. There is an American consulate in Düsseldorf, but it is a one-horse operation in a diplomatic backwater, and all they do is facilitate business appointments, and that kind of thing. If you want anything really done, you have to go down to the U.S. Consulate in Frankfurt. They are still on almost full lockdown, and you need an appointment just to get an appointment.

[dhol82]

2. While we have ramped up it's still not great.

This gives a bit of an overview:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state

[DFW]

6. I see TX and NY aren't doing great

Although the total number probably doesn't reflect what is certain to be an uneven distribution in the numbers. I'm sure that big cities like Dallas and NYC/Newark will have greater unused capacity than places like Lubbock or Oswego.

[captain queeg]

3. I'm a little surprised. I thought the US was the leader in the western world for incompetence

At least up till about 6 weeks ago. Things are going much better now. Gee, I wonder what has changed?

[DFW]

5. Europe has always looked to the USA for guidance

When it comes to incompetence, they finally saw an area where they could match and surpass the USA. The victory has been an uneven one, and there are still many areas where their incompetence lags behind ours, but there are also areas in which they have left us in the dust. Only sixteen years of straight Republican rule could give us a chance to catch up in total incompetence.

Fun true stories from the past:

Around 1980 a young married couple from France that I knew got a visa and a scholarship to study at a university in Boston for a year. They wanted a telephone in their apartment, so they went to an AT&T office to order one. They laid out what kind of service, equipment specifications, etc. The woman at the counter then asked when they would like installation. They carefully asked, "could we get it in six weeks?" The woman first thought she was the victim of a gag or Candid Camera. She told them to cut out the joke and say when they wanted installation. In France, at the time, you needed to apply two months in advance for a telephone installation. They figured things in the USA went faster, so they thought they'd ask six weeks in advance. When she understood that these people had no clue, she explained that they should come back a day or two before. Our French friends thought they were in a scene from a futuristic film.

--------------------------
In the early 1990s, we wanted to get our phone system upgraded to an ISDN system. Deutsche Telekom gave us a date several weeks in advance, and told us to be ready for them any time between 10:00 AM and 4:00 PM, and if they came and no one was home, they threatened us with "considerable charges" for sending their people out here for nothing.

We never left the house the whole day. At 3:40 PM, we started to get worried, and called the Telekom service hotline and asked when they were coming, seeing as how there were only 20 minutes left in the time frame they gave us. I reminded her about the threatening letter. The woman on the phone said they didn't send out threatening letters. I read her the threat of the "considerable charges" if we weren't here at the time they specified, so when WERE they coming? She said, well if they aren't there by now, then they weren't coming that day.

I asked her if we would be able to bill THEM for the "considerable charges" that I incurred from not working that day. She angrily replied, certainly not. I then asked if I had dialed the Albanian Telekom by mistake. She didn't like that, either. They eventually did come later that week, but I HAD taken a day to be in Germany when I should have been down in France, so I was not in a cordial mood. My wife has an expression that has proven true through the decades: "Servicewüste Deutschland." It basically translates out to, "Germany, a desert of service." In many respects, it is still true.

[moonscape]

41. I lived in Tubingen for a year in the

70’s. The wait list for a phone was so long, a year or so, that we simply couldn’t have one.

[DFW]

42. That sounds typical for the time

For the first year and a half that I knew my wife (1974-76), I couldn't call her on the phone in Germany because she couldn't get one. Only when she was with her parents could I call her. Her friends used to think I was some stupid American bragging the impossible when I said in the States, you could get one installed within 48 hours. "A telephone installed within TWO DAYS? Stop trying to lie to us, that's impossible." On the other hand, I first thought they were putting ME on when they said how long it took to get a telephone. I said, come on, what's so technically challenging about connecting a telephone line?

[Dorian Gray]

9. New York State

you would not be eligible. You need to be a resident or work in NY State and you need to show proof of this.

Also, a month visit may not be enough time. I got the moderna vaccine two days ago and my scheduled second dose was one month later. Same place and time. I didn't have a choice.

[DFW]

10. Thanks for the info

OK, NY is out. Maybe we should start and end the trip in Dallas, as I still have a residence there, and all of our friends there have been vaccinated. We will, of course, not get the first one without being sure of still being around for the next one.

[Dorian Gray]

12. No clue what the rules in Texas are re: vaccine

but with their new 100% open/no mask mandate, I'd be nervous about spending time there.

Good luck with whatever happens. Safe travels!

[dhol82]

11. And in NYC you have to be a resident or work in NYC

My friend, who lives in Westchester, was able to get an appointment in Queens. He was questioned about his credentials and was only okayed when he showed his Manhattan office letterhead.

[Dorian Gray]

13. They're being

sticklers about residency. I'm glad because it's so tough to get slots.

[dhol82]

15. So very true. I was having a difficult time scheduling until the Walgreen rollout last week.

Managed to snag one same day. Got an automatic second dose scheduled a month later.
It was a breeze compared to what’s happening now at the Javit’s Center. That’s a major shitshow with up to four hour waiting lines.

[Hortensis]

14. Lol. I have faith in your ability to find the answer you guys need,

whether it's the American in you or a synergistic combination of abilities.

Here in Florida, not applicable to you but just to chat, it's available to full and part-time ("seasonal" ) residents. People from other states need to be here a month to qualify and, we were told, be able to show casual documentation of residence, such as mail to their address. As for residents in general, everyone's recommended to bring proof of identity, but the first sentence of that section says, "Some vaccination sites ask for proof of identity or eligibility." Really? Is "some" 98%? 33?

I read that some people, very unclear on the concept of stopping epidemic disease, are all indignant that elderly Canadian snowbirds could get vaccinated before younger U.S. citizens. As if the virus checks IDs as it rampages through communities. Or Canadian lives count less. Even in FL the bureaucracy's more enlightened, and infinitely more task oriented, than that.

Our son's work in Georgia takes him into nursing care facilities; and when he opportunistically asked at one where they were about to start vaccinating residents and staff if he could "get in on it," they vaccinated him on the spot. The attitude was "get everyone vaccinated," not "you need to apply at the health department of your county of residence."

My guess is that that will be even more so as vaccine supplies rise to meet demand over the next month or two, the new variants and endemic insanity increase death rates all over again, and we rush to get everyone vaccinated before new, more dangerous variants are produced.

[DFW]

16. Thanks! We will definitely be doing some asking around in the next month.

We don't plan to be in Florida, just Texas, New York and Washington.

My brother got his in northern Virginia, and I don't think it had anything to do with his high security clearance, which, at any rate, he gives up at the end of this week (he is 67, and he is retiring). His area just had the vaccine, and he got it. From what I am hearing, our best chances seem to be in Texas, where I can still produce a valid ID.

[Hortensis]

18. Texas gets lots of seasonal visitors, so, whacked as they are

(possibly even worse than FL?) any vaccination program needs to cover them. And you're hoping to make a fairly extended stay in Massachusetts. I'm sure you'll get it done.

[DFW]

22. Mass. Isn't until July

That‘s our next trip.

I don‘t think the town of Truro will have an over-supply. Provincetown or Wellfleet maybe?

[Hortensis]

23. Ah. Well, one way or the other before that.

It'll be interesting to learn what you and others report. For instance, I would assume (hope?) non-citizen spouses living with qualifying U.S. citizens would qualify under most authorities. Only way to get the job done.

[DFW]

24. It may depend on what they ask.

My wife is, obviously, a non-citizen spouse living with me. However, she lives with me in Düsseldorf, not Dallas.

[Hortensis]

32. Yes. Maybe they'll consult the virus while she's with you in Dallas.

It's clear in talking about this that tactical rules are as important as they always are but that they NEED to have enough flexibility to allow the job to be done in the field as expeditiously as possible. Use the rules to contact 100,000 people; in the field, err on the side of enabling vaccination of everyone who shows up and appears to probably qualify. Within reason, whatever that would be, but soon vaccine supply won't be the limiting factor.

I'm still intrigued by the FL website saying some sites may require ID... Of course, it's the federal government that's paying.

[DFW]

33. I don't know if the U.S. government will pick up the tab for both of us

But I don't care. If my wife can get vaccinated at the same time I do, I'll be happy to pick up the bill. Her German insurance may even reimburse her.

[Hortensis]

34. Right. That complicating factor didn't cross my mind. How quickly

I got used to thinking of it all as "free." So to speak. Of course, there's important reason people aren't being charged up front.

[Haggard Celine]

36. Can your wife get a Texas driver's license?

They give driver's licenses to non-citizens in my state, so I'm thinking they would probably give her one in Texas. She might have to bring a bill with her or maybe she could just produce an International driver's license. Check the rules in Texas. It might be easy to get an ID from there.

[DFW]

38. That might be complicated

I don't know the rules for non-resident non-citizens, but as she doesn't have a TX residence, they might say (as they did to a Dutch friend of mine), "you're only here as a tourist, so we honor your EU driver's license for the duration of your stay."

[Haggard Celine]

40. Check with the Texas DMV.

It might be easy to get a license there. It used to be fairly easy to get a license there; maybe it still is. I knew a guy from here who went to Texas and got a driver's license made while dressed in drag. He wasn't that great at concealing his maleness, either. I also knew a guy back in the early 90's who was an exchange student from Germany and he easily obtained a license here. Some states are pretty lax. Your wife could use your daughter's address and show her EU ID and that might be all she needs. Good luck!

[Thyla]

17. In Spain it is as you would expect

Quite confusing.

As far as I know because we are on private insurance we have to register for a temporary health card to get on the list. Fine if you know this but for many they wouldn't even realise it as communication is terrible even at the best of times.

They released a rough guide last week that puts my wife in a different phase than me as well which kind of blows.

That said my wife's work has the facilities being set up to vaccinate their staff and immediate families(children excluded) but it's not yet clear if they will follow the governments phased plan or do it themselves. They have really been quite poor over the cousre of this pandemic so who knows.

We always figured it wouldn't be until August or September anyway so the way I see it is the real answer is nobody knows and all you have been told is subject to and will change in the future.

Another thing is we won't get a choice of vaccine I'm led to believe, which to me is important considering all the variants and modified vaccines planned in the future. I mean I'm an Aussie and wish to get back at some point and with all the talk of travel passports and the like we don't know what rules they may apply to get back in. You may be fine with Pfiezer and Moderna but still need to quarantine at a costly expense with the AstraZeneca one.

It's all up in the air and frankly I'm happy to sit back and wait until the private insurance can do it's job and buy the vaccine when it comes available to the market.

[panader0]

19. This is very surprising to me.

I thought Germany would be very organized and already have most people vaccinated.
The situation sounds like where I live. The mule bringing the vaccine to Cochise County, Az
died on the way from Tucson and it should be replaced in a month or so.
I'm 70, and there's no vaccine around that I can find. But I don't travel like you and staying
on my land is no great hardship, except for not playing music with the guys. Jeannie works from
home and shuns the radio station because they won't follow the rules. (sales people)
Congrats on the grandchild!

[DFW]

25. If only!

Germany is not very well organized. They prize their rules more than than they prize practicality. The outside world seems to confuse the two. They are FAR from having most people vaccinated. They are far from having even most of the over-80 crowd vaccinated, let alone everyone else.

They are decentralized, as opposed to France, which is overly centralized. In France, everything emanates from Paris. In Germany, things emanate from the state capitals. Very little comes from Berlin except confusion.

My wife is going up to the state of Niedersachsen tomorrow to be there for her mom's second injection. She will ask if, by any chance, she can get vaccinated, too, as long as she is there. We have no idea.

As opposed to your geographic situation, we are in the middle of the most populous state in Germany (Nordrhein-Westfalen), right outside of the state capital (Düsseldorf). And still, no one knows which was is up.

[NurseJackie]

20. Does Germany have the same type of militant/angry/defiant anti-maskers as we have here?

(If you've written about it previously, it's something I overlooked.)

Or are the citizens smarter, more cooperative, more concerned? Or, do national and regional/local mandates carry more authority... thereby forcing compliance?

Good luck! Stay safe!

[DFW]

26. There is plenty of that

But it is not as widespread as in the USA because there is no one major national party that advocates outright idiocy, and there hasn't been a dangerous fool at the head of the government for many years.

[róisín_dubh]

21. I don't know the answers to your questions

I'm in the UK now and they're going back and forth as to when the over-40s will get it (they're vaccinating non-citizen residents, which is great). My university in the US just notified me that they're going to start vaccinating faculty over 40 shortly. So, it's a race as to who will get me the jab fastest. I have to go back to the US for a bit to get spring/summer clothes and some research materials, but I'd prefer not to stay for a month to 5 weeks to get both jabs. It would be far easier to stay here, get vaccinated, then go back to the US.

[DFW]

27. I know relatively little about the UK

I'm rarely there, and have few contacts there. I hope they aren't like the Germans in making rigid rules more important than practical practices that favor people over paper.

[RockCreek]

28. You mentioned your daughter is nesr Newark. NJ seems to be doing well.

I don't know about residency issues.
My 78 year old dad got vaccinated easily in January.
2 friends in their 50s with a prexisting mefical condition -- they smoke-- have gotten their first shots.

[DFW]

29. My daughter is in Manhattan. My sister is in NJ

My daughter is in her 8th month of pregnancy, and doesn't want to be vaccinated until after giving birth. My sister, who is 65, and her husband, who is younger, are now in between vaccinations.

(smoking is a pre-existing condition? I thought it caused them, didn't know it WAS one)

[RockCreek]

35. One of those Jersey things....

Technically, perhaps it's active nicotine dependence disorder.
J and J being headquartered there is apso bringing a large shipment of that vaccine to the state.
You might look into getting it there -- it seems to be doing better than most other places with registration and administration.

[DFW]

37. We'll ask my sister to look into it, thanks! n/t

[Laurelin]

30. That's surprising

Are they not offering the astrazeneca vaccine because of your age? I already got my first astrazeneca shot. I'm under 65 in the Netherlands, but I thought Germany was doing better than we are with vaccinations.

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is out now. I hope that will speed things up and get you vaccinated in time to see your grand baby!

[DFW]

31. So do we!!

We saw Fauci last night say that the two tier seemed to be the most effective. Here in Germany, we can't get ANYTHING. The brick wall of German bureaucracy has proven to be stronger than all heads butting against it.