Some Women Rape So Easy?

[leftyladyfrommo]

Is anyone following this? Republican from Wisconsin said this? He is endorsed by Ryan" (See Raw Story)

The actual thinking of these guys is really getting scary. Well, it always has been but I guess I just wasn't aware of how widespread this awful mindset is.

So next the Right wing will advocate shooting young women who want an education in the head?

Lord. This is awful.

[PDJane]

1. Obviously I'm not, because I have no idea what you're talking about?

Care to elucidate? Provide a link? Something?

[sinkingfeeling]

2. His name is Roger Rivard and here's the story...

http://www.alternet.org/gender/paul-ryan-pal-some-girls-rape-easy

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. Thank you.

I should have done that to begin with.

My bad.

[PDJane]

9. Thank you. I appreciate the backstory!

[newfie11]

4. Why are men the authority on rape

I don't remember this ever being a political issue during an election year. The repugs are all about banning sharia law but the creeps are just as bad.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. These men sure seem to view "rape" in a whole

different way than the women I know do.

There seem to be real degrees of rape.

It seems to be OK to rape when you can get away with it and it isn't physically brutal.

Women really want to be raped as long as they aren't beaten up.

Scary.

[GladRagDahl]

16. Because...

they do most of the raping.

[treestar]

19. Remember originally it was an offense against the man

Her father or husband, not her.

[niyad]

6. in my conversation with this nozzle last night, he stuck by the statement, insisting that it was

advice his father had given him to avoid premarital sex, and nothing offensive was meant. he could not be moved from this, and defended himself by saying that he was "a good catholic, a knight of columbus" and how they were taught to respect women, and told me I didn't know what I was talking about saying the rcc is one of the most woman-hating institutions in the world (and I speak as an ex-com)

it was, basically, a wasted conversation with a clueless twit.,

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. I know I've heard other men say this same thing.

And have no idea just how offensive what they just said was.

It's the ole Boys will be Boys routine.

[niyad]

21. talking to him in his total obtuseness last night made me wish I had a nice bottle of brandy handy.

there was simply no way to get through to him just how offensive that statement was.

[geardaddy]

14. "a knight of columbus" and how they were taught to respect women...

as vessels for their seed.

[niyad]

23. and slaves, basically.

women are to be respected, but NOT given any real power or authority in the church. I pointed out ratzi's treatment of the american nuns, and he had nothing to say.

[geardaddy]

40. Totally agree. n/t

[Aerows]

8. This disgusting attitude

goes hand in hand with the idea that if a woman consents once, then she has consented forever.

[4th law of robotics]

10. The incident he was referencing seems to be

one where a 17 year old and a younger girl (presumably under 17 but I don't see her age) had consensual sex that led to him being charged with sexual assault.

Which given those details (I withhold the right to change my mind if more facts come out) I would agree: that is bullshit.

But his statement was stupid, although I couldn't find the entire quote.

[niyad]

20. this is the entire quote

. . .

He told the Journal Sentinel that his father had advised him not to have premarital sex, and he took that seriously.

"He also told me one thing, 'If you do (have premarital sex), just remember, consensual sex can turn into rape in an awful hurry,' " Rivard said. "Because all of a sudden a young lady gets pregnant and the parents are madder than a wet hen and she's not going to say, 'Oh, yeah, I was part of the program.' All that she has to say or the parents have to say is it was rape because she's underage. And he just said, 'Remember, Roger, if you go down that road, some girls,' he said, 'they rape so easy.'

"What the whole genesis of it was, it was advice to me, telling me, 'If you're going to go down that road, you may have consensual sex that night and then the next morning it may be rape.' So the way he said it was, 'Just remember, Roger, some girls, they rape so easy. It may be rape the next morning.

. . . .

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/state-legislator-criticized-for-comments-on-rape-hj76f4k-173587961.html

[4th law of robotics]

24. I think as a percentage of the total

it's minuscule.

However in this case he seems to be right. Same thing about the accidental pregnancy thing. Not all that common, but also not unheard of.

Which is sad because we could prevent all of that with a sensible approach to sex ed and contraception but that's another argument.


So I think he had at the heart of his argument a kernel of truth that was A) not really necessary to say and B) expressed in about the worst possible way.

[niyad]

25. "expressed in the worst possible way"? is that a polite way of saying sexist a-hole, because,

otherwise, you appear not to get it. it isn't about percentages, or sex-ed--it's about a mindset regarding women that is offensive and hateful.

[4th law of robotics]

26. I think I stated

my opinion quite clearly.

[niyad]

27. oh it was clear enough

[4th law of robotics]

30. So . . . it has come to this

Statements that sound sinister but really don't mean anything.

/http://xkcd.com/1022/

[niyad]

34. sinister? really? wow

[Moonwalk]

33. Um, hate to break it to ya, but if a girl is a minor, it's rape...

...doesn't matter if it was consensual, if a girl is a minor then it's statutory rape. That is, if the parents find out and want to call it that and bring in the law on it.

Now I'm not saying this is a good thing. I have, in fact, very fierce anger towards such laws; it's fucking stupid that teens over the age of fifteen can't have consensual sex without the boy being in danger of having committed statutory rape. But that is the law, and consent has nothing to do with it.

[4th law of robotics]

35. I will have to disagree with you there

if the age of consent is 17 then yes a 17 year old boy having sex with a 16 year old girl is by the legal definition rape.

However I would have a hard time considering him a rapist and her a helpless victim.

We aren't talking about a 30 year old and a 12 year old. Yes the age of consent laws must by definition be arbitrary. Especially since they are applied selectively (rarely would a 17 year old girl be prosecuted for sleeping with a 16 year old boy although the laws generally don't specifically mention gender) and what is legal in one spot can become illegal by simply moving a few miles in one direction and crossing and arbitrary state line.

Is this boy a monster, a serial rapist that society must be protected from? I'm going to guess no based on these data.

So it seems the sentiment that you can easily become a rapist following consensual sex is right in this instance. Both consented, but the boy is now a rapist.

If we drafted him and sent him to war people would be outraged because he's just a child. But for this he's an adult.

[Moonwalk]

39. I wouldn't consider him a rapist either...

...but the law does, and that's my point. He is a rapist by law, can be accused of it and jailed for it, by law, even if the girl says it was consensual. The law is bullshit, no argument, but as it stands, it makes him a rapist. No bullshit.

[4th law of robotics]

43. So wouldn't the argument that

in very specific circumstances consent can turn to rape be a true statement?

These two thought they were consenting. I doubt either were well versed on the state laws regarding consent (not that ignorance is a defense but still . . . ).

And yet it turned in to rape without either of them walking away from the experience feeling raped.

[Moonwalk]

47. Yes, but the point here is that the "rape so easy" quote doesn't include specifics....

...Dad didn't say, "under 18 is rape, don't do it." He said that "some girls rape easy." He may have been referring to a situation about underage sex, but his implication is that a man should not have premarital sex with any girl (adult or otherwise) as those nasty single ladies will turn him into a rapist if they change their mind about what he did to them later.

This is like the saying, "Why buy the milk when you can get it for free..." to make girls not have sex before marriage, which impugns all men as cads by saying that the only reason they'd ever marry a woman is to have sex with her. That it is true of some men in some instances doesn't make it a correct statement. "Some girls rape easy" paints both women and rape with a very old and sinister brush that says "rape" is just a way for women (or the parents of women) to blackmail or hurt men. It implies that half the time, at least, a rape charge can be dismissed as slander. Minimized and not taken seriously.

Do you really think this statement, implying such, should be taken as "correct" given that it is effectively a lie the majority of the time (no girl is "easily" raped, and very few girls lie about such "easily&quot , and requires such a long explanation to make the one hearing it understand in what particular and narrow circumstances it can be taken as true?

[porphyrian]

11. Vote him out. n/t

[Odin2005]

12. The "MRA" posters here say the same crap.

Whining about false rape accusations.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. Name one. n/t

[Odin2005]

28. Oh, the irony of your post!

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. You're inferring that a) I'm an MRA and b) I've said what the congressman said.

put up or shut the fuck up.

[4th law of robotics]

18. I don't suppose you have any actual evidence to back up those claims?

And yes, false rape accusations are real and can be devastating to those who are on the receiving end.

I've yet to hear anyone say that makes actual rape Ok.

Perhaps you could enlighten us.

[seabeyond]

44. false rape is 2-3% per fbi and studies in england. consistently. to use that argument when rape is

discussed is all about dismissal of rape.

i hear ya. a whole lot of nothing, comparatively.

[geardaddy]

13. Kenny Rogers lookalike needs to go down hard.

[PDJane]

15. I realize that this attitude is prevalent in a certain class of males.

And no, they don't find it offensive. They should, but they don't have the ability to see why it might be just a tad offputting to most women.

Any woman who would actually vote for this man has some kind of derangement syndrome, honestly. How did these neaderthals grab the power, and who the hell keeps them there?

[ieoeja]

38. This attitude is prevalent in a certain class of "people".

Everyone thinking this is only true of men have apparently not spent much time in the Bible Belt. Women in the Bible Belt do not commonly charge men with rape after having consensual sex with them, but it is not at all uncommon for them to make that claim.

I will try to explain Bible Belt culture on this subject.

You don't remain virgin til marriage for the sake of your body. You do it for your soul. If you do not have consensual sex, you have a virginal soul. Raped? You're still a virgin at heart. Baby's wearing a white dress to her wedding!

I knew a woman in college who would say things like, "I hope my boyfriend doesn't wear himself out too much with they guys cause I was really hoping he would rape me tonight."

It gets worse. I knew a woman who had three children. All fathered by her husband. And all, she claimed, by rape. He said she always initiated their occasional encounters precisely because he would not otherwise ever know for certain whether it was consensual or not. She sat right there and pretended not to hear his explanation. So this crazy assed shit continues even after marriage for some religioned up women.

[Kablooie]

22. This attitude is similar to their views of the poor.

They see both poor people and women who are raped as conniving lazy cheats that game the system for their own benefit.

The poor are people who don't work specifically so they can get free food and benefits.
They seem to think women often con men into consensual sex and then turn around and accuse them of rape to get ... lawsuit money? ... I guess.

Anyone who's not a white, well to do male is an undeserving, cheating leech to them.
It's ironic since the undeserving, cheating leeches that damage the most lives in America are all white, well to do males.

[Jamastiene]

29. That mentality is awful.

They might have used the Taliban and Sharia Law as one of their excuses for the wars, but they think exactly the same way in a lot of cases. It is not just that the Republicans do not respect women. They seem to have it in for women and want to keep targeting us in the worst possible way. It might work on some women, but not any woman with any self respect at all. Gah, the ones who think like that make me sick.

[Moonwalk]

31. And they want to make birth control and abortion illegal? I mean, dad's argument....

...about premarital, consensual sex turning into rape goes right out the window if the boy just wears a fucking condom, doesn't it? Or if the girl is on birth control. Or if she can get an abortion without having her parents consent....

With that mindset, you'd think such men would be in favor of contraceptives and abortion. It keeps them from going to jail for rape.

[niyad]

32. but women would be making their own decisions about their own bodies. we cannot have that.

[leftyladyfrommo]

36. Oh, those dangerous feminazis

Rush Limbaugh says they have caused a 10% decrease in the size of penises over the last 20 years - or something close to that.

It's all so inane.

[Moonwalk]

37. What makes this all doubly offensive is no mention a boy's responsibility....

...to the girl he got pregnant or the child he engendered. I mean, this is all the wisdom dad could impart? Don't have pre-marital sex or you'll be accused of rape if she gets preggers? How about, "Don't have premarital sex without a condom or you'll have to support a kid for the next eighteen years?"

I mean, how fucking clueless is this? What if the girl is 18 and doesn't give into her parents and no rape charge comes? Does the baby just go away? A baby that men like this won't let the woman abort?

In this scenario, the onus for getting pregnant, for being responsible for a child is all on the girl. The dad didn't speak of the boy having any responsibility for the kid being created, nor for taking care of the kid now that it existed. Where's all the "respect for life" shit in this conversation?

[PD Turk]

42. And another name goes on the list

Here's another ass nozzle added to my list of people not allowed within 500ft of my wife and daughter. I had originally titled the list "Akin's Rape Gang" , but now I have changed it to simply "The Republican Rape Gang" list.

Any people with such cavalier attitudes about violating women and girls are not to be trusted anywhere near them

[seabeyond]

45. it is a disgusting statement. it sounds like some girls rape easily. disgusting. no justification

for a comment like this. just putting more of a dismissive attitude to rape out in our society that has already taken two huge steps backwards.

[leftyladyfrommo]

46. That attitude has always been there.

Nothing new around here.

Still makes me mad.

[Aristus]

48. Yet another reason why I'm proud to be a Democrat.

Repuke men are so f*****g scared of women, they have to demonize them at every turn.

As a man, I love smart, strong, assertive, talented, independent, take-no-shit women. And most of those women tend to be Democrats.

My current favorite: